Wait, people think the Octopus-making is part of the emblem? Kiora's ultimate does two things: it gives you an emblem that says "Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may have it fight target creature.", and it also gives you three octopuses.
I can kinda understand someone misreading it the first time, but how is it possible to still get wrong after re-reading it?
edit: Well, at least I'm on the same page as FuriousMarsupial
It is a planeswalker ultimate. They are designed to win the game. No, I will not be surprised if she can go infinite.
Look. The Emblem literally just states "Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may have it fight target creature." The Octopus token generation is separate. That's very clear.
I get being thrown off by it the first time and needing correction, but now that you've been corrected, it's weird and kinda dickish that you're waving everybody off and sticking to your guns on how you originally read the card. You're far from the first person to misinterpret her ultimate ability, but everyone else who has done so is satisfied with their answer.
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Formerly Angrypossum over at the now-defunct WotC forums.
Seems pretty fantastic with Tasigur. You get to dig for creatures and lands while filling the yard, and the +1 helps you keep using the activated ability.
See how the Emblem's text is in quotes?
See how the octopuses are outside those quotes?
I'll wait for the oracle text and a judge ruling.
What's more likely: that the English language interpretation of the card accurately depicts how the card operates, or WotC bizarrely created a card that goes infinite with itself?
It is a planeswalker ultimate. They are designed to win the game. No, I will not be surprised if she can go infinite.
You will get the emblem.
The emblem does not put 8/8's onto the battlefield - therefore you cannot go "infinite". Her ability is going to give you 2 things:
The emblem that says your creatures fight when they enter
Three 8/8 creatures
You only get the 3 8/8's, no more, no less. They DO however get to fight when they enter because the emblem lets you fight.
Only thing that makes me sad for this card is that i cant use it as a commander for EDH. Big Water monsters. Other then that she is hella good, I wonder what she would be rated as for planeswalkers. I give her a 8.4.
Good card. The +1 is decent, doesn't really come into effect until post-turn 4 or a turn after she sticks unfortunately, but that -2 is incredible. Her -2 is underwhelming in control, but for Midrange this is the exact draw power you want. And it enables graveyard shenanigans? The card has strong potential.
She has a strong CA tool in the -2, and can help ramp with her +1, but it's important to remember that she does NOT protect herself (except maybe by untapping blockers). She is also not great as a win condition against control. She will help you find threats and play then, but she isn't a threat or an answer on her own. Even her ult is not certain game-ender against control (though it does make an "immediate boardwipe or lose")
Overall, I think she is quite good, and will be a good tool for slower Sultai or Bant decks. Her colors do limit her though, Kiora 1 and Sarkhan Unbroken both see no play, primarily due to not having decks to fit in. It is just important to remember that, while she is good at creating CA, she is not a threat, just a draw spell with some ramp potential.
With 4 of the five origins walkers hinted at for this block + kiora and ob that puts us at 6 this block. Let's keep this going wizards let's see ugin, Nahiri, or sorin get back into the fray.
All of the rules allow for your general to be moved to the command zone when he gets put into a place that would be tough to get him back from, GY, Exile, etc. I am sure one day the rules will change and include tuck effects.
See how the Emblem's text is in quotes?
See how the octopuses are outside those quotes?
I'll wait for the oracle text and a judge ruling.
What's more likely: that the English language interpretation of the card accurately depicts how the card operates, or WotC bizarrely created a card that goes infinite with itself?
C. It was written poorly and creates confusion. Most people will be putting three 8/8 everytime one of their creatures fight something. I don't know how it got past templating.
See how the Emblem's text is in quotes?
See how the octopuses are outside those quotes?
I'll wait for the oracle text and a judge ruling.
What's more likely: that the English language interpretation of the card accurately depicts how the card operates, or WotC bizarrely created a card that goes infinite with itself?
C. It was written poorly and creates confusion. Most people will be putting three 8/8 everytime one of their creatures fight something. I don't know how it got past templating.
It's written the way it needed to be written to get the desired effect. Swapping the order of the sentences wouldn't allow the octopi to fight. The use of quotation marks adequately conveys the message. If "most people" think each fight grants them three Octopi, "most" people don't get basic English.
At least, that's my evaluation. How would you have templated it?
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Formerly Angrypossum over at the now-defunct WotC forums.
It was clear to me the first time I read it. Most people are just obtuse and don't bother reading cards all the way through before spouting off inane ideas. Really, this is not hard to grasp.
it does generate a lot of ramp and card advantage.
the -2 is crazy it digs 4 cards, gets (likely) 2 into your hand 2 more in the graveyard, which can be VERY important in the right deck.
it also does that TWICE from starting loyalty if left unchecked.
the +1 is a value machine, it ramps, untaps dudes with activated abilities, gives pseudo vigilance
the ultimate will outright win any game in which you still had a glimpse of chance.
I mean... 24 power on the battlefield + 3 removal that hit anything 7/7 or smaller is just bananas.
you use that, they better wrath the board, or just concede.
[+1] That was not bad to protect Kiora & you. more mana was sometimes useful too. i now consider this ability similiarly to Kiroa 1. She protects you & her just in purpose to reach her Ultimate. If you dont need Protection, then this does basically nothing, but approaches you to her Ultimate.
[-2] Like Ajani, Mentor of Heroes [+1] (Oh i will miss Ajani :() but in my eyes worse. Hurted a lot when i hit Planeswalker, but couldnt get them. You better pack your Deck with big Creatures. This is the ability that creates card-advange & actually does something, contrary to her rather supporting [+1].
[-8] i once was 1 turn before i could activate it, but at that point, he was lost anyway. with or without her Ultimate. But im sure its a Super-Ultimate.
I'm shocked by the number of people misinterpreting her ultimate as an infinite combo.
Obligatory MTGS anti-flaming explanation: I don't mean that in a condescending way. The ult seems pretty straight-forward and obvious to me, and I'm having a hard time even reading it the way others are interpreting it.
The original English translation provided was very poorly worded and unclear. Still, I would have hoped it was obvious that you couldn't go infinite here.
Everyone around here misreadin' the Ulti and I'm just sitting here misreading her -2...
At first I wasn't so sure why was everyone so hype about her, then I saw creature and/or land and... yeah. Card is very very good. Really, if you manage to brick at her -2, then you're clearly playing her in the wrong deck. To top it off, her -2's synergy with Delve really shouldn't go understated. I can see some kind of UG or Sultai deck featuring Kiora here.
Her +1 seems okay-ish, and the synergy with Awaken is cute, but honestly I'm not so hot about it. Pseudo-vigilance is alright, but also somewhat situational, and without it ramping 1 mana seems hardly worth it. If there was any abuseable T effect in Standard right now, sure, and it works fine with Dragonlord Ojutai, esp. now that Hero's Downfall is being replaced by a Sorcery, but I'll have to wait and see.
Her ultimate puts 24 power on the board, wrecks the opponent's field and gives all your creatures a permanent buff. It also takes forever to trigger. High up there on the list of strongest Ultis ever, probably right below Tamiyo. Timmies rejoice.
I loved the Ultimate on the last Kiora more. While 8/8 Octopuses are pretty neat, not getting more than 3 of them isn't as fun as a 9/9 Kraken each of your end steps. That flood of 9/9 Krakens was just beautiful.
See how the Emblem's text is in quotes?
See how the octopuses are outside those quotes?
I'll wait for the oracle text and a judge ruling.
What's more likely: that the English language interpretation of the card accurately depicts how the card operates, or WotC bizarrely created a card that goes infinite with itself?
C. It was written poorly and creates confusion. Most people will be putting three 8/8 everytime one of their creatures fight something. I don't know how it got past templating.
Stop trolling. It's really, really simple to understand.
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I can kinda understand someone misreading it the first time, but how is it possible to still get wrong after re-reading it?
edit: Well, at least I'm on the same page as FuriousMarsupial
Look. The Emblem literally just states "Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may have it fight target creature." The Octopus token generation is separate. That's very clear.
I get being thrown off by it the first time and needing correction, but now that you've been corrected, it's weird and kinda dickish that you're waving everybody off and sticking to your guns on how you originally read the card. You're far from the first person to misinterpret her ultimate ability, but everyone else who has done so is satisfied with their answer.
You will get the emblem.
The emblem does not put 8/8's onto the battlefield - therefore you cannot go "infinite". Her ability is going to give you 2 things:
You only get the 3 8/8's, no more, no less. They DO however get to fight when they enter because the emblem lets you fight.
The emblem allows your ETB creatures to fight. Ultimate activation gives you 3 8/8s.
Now we are cookin'.
Cannot go "infinite" sadly.
This card would be so much fun if you could nuke the board until nothing is left but the tokens though.
Overall, I think she is quite good, and will be a good tool for slower Sultai or Bant decks. Her colors do limit her though, Kiora 1 and Sarkhan Unbroken both see no play, primarily due to not having decks to fit in. It is just important to remember that, while she is good at creating CA, she is not a threat, just a draw spell with some ramp potential.
I had forgotten about Sarkhan, but now that you mention it, Rattleclaw Mystic might be the perfect thing to untap with the +1.
C. It was written poorly and creates confusion. Most people will be putting three 8/8 everytime one of their creatures fight something. I don't know how it got past templating.
It's written the way it needed to be written to get the desired effect. Swapping the order of the sentences wouldn't allow the octopi to fight. The use of quotation marks adequately conveys the message. If "most people" think each fight grants them three Octopi, "most" people don't get basic English.
At least, that's my evaluation. How would you have templated it?
it does generate a lot of ramp and card advantage.
the -2 is crazy it digs 4 cards, gets (likely) 2 into your hand 2 more in the graveyard, which can be VERY important in the right deck.
it also does that TWICE from starting loyalty if left unchecked.
the +1 is a value machine, it ramps, untaps dudes with activated abilities, gives pseudo vigilance
the ultimate will outright win any game in which you still had a glimpse of chance.
I mean... 24 power on the battlefield + 3 removal that hit anything 7/7 or smaller is just bananas.
you use that, they better wrath the board, or just concede.
[+1] That was not bad to protect Kiora & you. more mana was sometimes useful too. i now consider this ability similiarly to Kiroa 1. She protects you & her just in purpose to reach her Ultimate. If you dont need Protection, then this does basically nothing, but approaches you to her Ultimate.
[-2] Like Ajani, Mentor of Heroes [+1] (Oh i will miss Ajani :() but in my eyes worse. Hurted a lot when i hit Planeswalker, but couldnt get them. You better pack your Deck with big Creatures. This is the ability that creates card-advange & actually does something, contrary to her rather supporting [+1].
[-8] i once was 1 turn before i could activate it, but at that point, he was lost anyway. with or without her Ultimate. But im sure its a Super-Ultimate.
Obligatory MTGS anti-flaming explanation: I don't mean that in a condescending way. The ult seems pretty straight-forward and obvious to me, and I'm having a hard time even reading it the way others are interpreting it.
At first I wasn't so sure why was everyone so hype about her, then I saw creature and/or land and... yeah. Card is very very good. Really, if you manage to brick at her -2, then you're clearly playing her in the wrong deck. To top it off, her -2's synergy with Delve really shouldn't go understated. I can see some kind of UG or Sultai deck featuring Kiora here.
Her +1 seems okay-ish, and the synergy with Awaken is cute, but honestly I'm not so hot about it. Pseudo-vigilance is alright, but also somewhat situational, and without it ramping 1 mana seems hardly worth it. If there was any abuseable T effect in Standard right now, sure, and it works fine with Dragonlord Ojutai, esp. now that Hero's Downfall is being replaced by a Sorcery, but I'll have to wait and see.
Her ultimate puts 24 power on the board, wrecks the opponent's field and gives all your creatures a permanent buff. It also takes forever to trigger. High up there on the list of strongest Ultis ever, probably right below Tamiyo. Timmies rejoice.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
UBRThe MindrazerRBU
UUUSpymaster of TrestGGG
GGGThe South TreeGGG
RRRHuman AscendantRRR
Stop trolling. It's really, really simple to understand.