With the rotation of Stormbreath Dragon, the time to crown Abzan Charm the King of Standard is upon us. Up to this point it has been crushing Standard but after rotation I fear it will be unstoppable. It has all the right friends in all the right places, and the perfect set of abilities:
1. It Exiles Big Eldrazi
2. It Has Powerful Mainboard Creature Friends (Siege Rhino, Anafenza, the Foremost, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, and a gaggle of great fliers)
3. It Has Powerful Sideboard Tech Friends (Languish, Dromoka's Command, Ruinous Path, Utter End, Feed the Clan, and more)
4. It Synergizes with and against Hangarback Walker
5. It is Great Against the Mirror
6. It Hates Out Graveyard and Hasty Strategies (Instant speed exile is so hot right now)
Anybody disagree? Is there a way around this pending coronation? I built a Sagu Mauler and Torrent Elemental deck and it needed a lot of help. Thoughts?
Abzan's mana seems a little rough and losing Fleecemane seems real bad when you can't rely on Rakshasa Deathdealer due to mana issues. Control losing Elspeth will also be rough.
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One of these day I have to get myself organizized.
The fetches will still remain in standard for 6 months after rotation with the charm and once the winter set Oath of the Gatewatch comes out abzan decks with have fetchable enemy dual lands (swamp forests and Swamp Plains) for Windswept Heath to grab.
Are we really losing the Abzan land base? Sure the Theros Temples and the ever awesome Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth are going bye bye, but we are gaining fetchable dual lands and the Tarkir life-gain taplands are still available. While they may not be as good, I do feel like they will be comprible and the negatives will affect most decks equally.
Are we really losing the Abzan land base? Sure the Theros Temples and the ever awesome Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth are going bye bye, but we are gaining fetchable dual lands and the Tarkir life-gain taplands are still available. While they may not be as good, I do feel like they will be comprible and the negatives will affect most decks equally.
The dual land is only GW and Windswept Heath was already not spectacular in the deck, especially as Fleecemane rotates. The deck is going to struggle with black mana unless folks just start using gainlands slotted into where the temples were or find some new configuration with Evolving Wilds, basic swamps, and the new dual. Currently, the deck just doesn't run enough basics to keep the tangoland from coming into play tapped.
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One of these day I have to get myself organizized.
Wow, when BfZ comes in, we pretty much lose all of our lands. We end up with lifegain lands, two different cycles of Ally lands, and the tri lands. I guess ally color decks will be all we see for or at least a couple months.
EDIT: Oops, forget that the pain lands were reprinted in magic origins.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
I agree with the OP. In some form or another Abzan should remain at/near the top. Manabase might not allow an aggro version to exist, but certainly the midrange/control versions should be just fine.
How quickly do you want to die to your black spells? Only 4 non pain sources mean almost constant pain on black and the deck has no shortage of black symbols on its good cards
... once the winter set Oath of the Gatewatch comes out abzan decks with have fetchable enemy dual lands (swamp forests and Swamp Plains) for Windswept Heath to grab.
Is it confirmed that we are getting the enemy tango cycle in the winter set? Does that mean enemy creature lands are out?
Two? There's downfall and what else? While I do think Abzan charm will come to the fore, for many different reasons, I believe it still has a major weakness, walkers. I think Planeswalkers will deffo come to the fore more now that they are safe for a turn, and even if they die to ruinous path pretty quickly, you don't lose any tempo. That said, maybe the draw and counters mode will be superior.
Ruinous path will serve to control PW almost as well as hero's Downfall did.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
Ruinous path will serve to control PW almost as well as hero's Downfall did.
With the added bonus of animating an excess land. Losing instant speed isn't great but charm, utter end, ult price, hallowed moonlight, and radiant purge can all work in this deck in certain situations.
I think abzan's mana will be fine, but abzan aggro with rhino at the top of the curve seems like it would be the best iteration of the deck. losing fleeceman lion hurts that deck, but there could be an excellent replacement in BFZ. Abzan Charm will be very good. Hangarback Abzan Aggro is going to be a big deck from what I can tell. I think we might see a bant control deck emerge, with hangarback, kiora, planar outburst/end hostilities, but that's just me brewing in my head with the new spoilers.
I think abzan's mana will be fine, but abzan aggro with rhino at the top of the curve seems like it would be the best iteration of the deck. losing fleeceman lion hurts that deck
Do you think Undergrowth Champion will be a tolerable replacement for Fleecemane Lion in Hangarback Abzan Aggro? It would be another option that benefited from Abzan Charm's counter bestowing option.
IMHO the best thing about fleecemane is its potential to gain indestructible and stick around as you curve up. Undergrowth champion is a decent aggro creature but the two green requirement is iffy in an abzan deck and it cant give itself any kind of evasion....so I dont know. Deathdealer might be better. Works great with abzan charm though.
Good luck against red with a manabase like that I could easily see that manabase dealing 5+ damage a game to itself. I have seen people lose games in current standard from drawing to many painlands in the early game this manabase has a huge chance to do that.
1. It Exiles Big Eldrazi
2. It Has Powerful Mainboard Creature Friends (Siege Rhino, Anafenza, the Foremost, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, and a gaggle of great fliers)
3. It Has Powerful Sideboard Tech Friends (Languish, Dromoka's Command, Ruinous Path, Utter End, Feed the Clan, and more)
4. It Synergizes with and against Hangarback Walker
5. It is Great Against the Mirror
6. It Hates Out Graveyard and Hasty Strategies (Instant speed exile is so hot right now)
Anybody disagree? Is there a way around this pending coronation? I built a Sagu Mauler and Torrent Elemental deck and it needed a lot of help. Thoughts?
I second this. It's land base is quite volatile.
I guess the real losses are Mana Confluence and Sylvan Caryatid.
EDIT: Oops, forget that the pain lands were reprinted in magic origins.
- Manite
3 Forest
3 Plains
2 Canopy VIsta
4 Windswept Heath
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Llanowar Wastes
How quickly do you want to die to your black spells? Only 4 non pain sources mean almost constant pain on black and the deck has no shortage of black symbols on its good cards
Is it confirmed that we are getting the enemy tango cycle in the winter set? Does that mean enemy creature lands are out?
- Manite
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
With the added bonus of animating an excess land. Losing instant speed isn't great but charm, utter end, ult price, hallowed moonlight, and radiant purge can all work in this deck in certain situations.
UBRThe MindrazerRBU
UUUSpymaster of TrestGGG
GGGThe South TreeGGG
RRRHuman AscendantRRR
Do you think Undergrowth Champion will be a tolerable replacement for Fleecemane Lion in Hangarback Abzan Aggro? It would be another option that benefited from Abzan Charm's counter bestowing option.
UBRThe MindrazerRBU
UUUSpymaster of TrestGGG
GGGThe South TreeGGG
RRRHuman AscendantRRR
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
1 gideon, ally of zendikar
2 languish
3 ruinous path
4 abzan charm
2 dromoka's command
2 valorous stance
1 gideon's reproach
4 siege rhino
4 den protector
3 deathmist raptor
1 nissa, vastwood seer
4 hangarback walker
4 honored hierarch
3 jungle hollow
4 sandsteppe citadel
4 llanowar wastes
4 windswept heath
4 forest
1 plains
1 canopy vista
I'm wondering if Honored Hierarch is set to take over as the premier accelerator in Abzan. This list has a density of interaction to get it renowned.