Jace, Telepath Unbound seems like the perfect fit for those Sultai Whip decks. Early on, he can be used to fuel your graveyard, specifically binning Deathmist Raptors that you happen to draw for those morph recursion chains.
Late game, you can use Whip of Erebos to recur Jace. This allows him to immediately Loot, and given that you should have 4 or more cards in your graveyard already, he'll flip, which gets him out from under the Whip's exile clause (since he exiles and returns). He can then immediately Snapcast a spell or start ticking up.
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Seems legit. Anybody got a trial decklist they're thinking about (not counting whatever else might come in M15 that supports the deck)? The only thing I don't like about this plan is that it probably isn't good enough for any format but standard, and Whip and Jace will only be in Standard together for a couple of months.
Seems legit. Anybody got a trial decklist they're thinking about (not counting whatever else might come in M15 that supports the deck)? The only thing I don't like about this plan is that it probably isn't good enough for any format but standard, and Whip and Jace will only be in Standard together for a couple of months.
Yeah, this is definitely a Standard trick, and the standard format with both cards is pretty short, but it could be pretty good while it lasts.
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Yes, but Liliana doesn't need to get whipped to flip. She is easy. Unlike the other walkers, she can be naturally transformed without tricks the turn she comes into play.
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RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
Yes, but Liliana doesn't need to get whipped to flip. She is easy. Unlike the other walkers, she can be naturally transformed without tricks the turn she comes into play.
Wait, so the logic is "use the worse card because the deck conditionally satisfies its awkward requirements"? If so, sounds like a bad plan. Unless jace's looting promises to be anymore relevant than satyr's, and the -3 ability has relevant targets, it may just not fit here.
Let's just get this out of the way: ALL OF THE NEW WALKERS WORK WITH WHIP OF EREBOS! Chandra won't get used with it for what I hope are obvious reasons. Jace is an enabler for Sidisi Whip, when he's a creature, but doesn't provide much value as a walker. Kytheon would be awkward to flip in Abzan Whip, but his planeswalker side is much more useful than Jace's. Nissa provides value as both a creature and a planeswalker and whip decks love creatures with ETB triggers. Liliana is simply everything a whip deck wants to do, all rolled up in one convenient card.
Yes, whip works very well with the new walkers. However, Jace is terrible in whip decks. While his looting can be helpful, you don't play him to be a Merfolk looter or to give -2/-0, you play him to repeatedly flashback instants and sorceries. The problem is, most whip decks run almost all creatures, (excluding some self-mill and removal), which means Jace's -3 (the only thing that might make him playable anyways) does very little. You play jace so he can flashback Dig Through Time or Crux of Fate, not so he can do a little self mill.
Liliana, on the other hand, might be just what Sidisi Whip decks need to become teir 1 again. She has the same synergy with Whip (of being virtually unkillable without exile, kinda like how Obzedat, Ghost Council was), except she has the benefit of being easier to flip when things aren't going your way (if you flip Jace by t4, you are probably doing pretty well anyways), has a bigger body and lifelink to protect against aggro. (2/3 isn't huge, but she can block any 1-drop and some 2-drops to kill it and gain life, which is pretty good on a card designed for grind matchups). Her planeswalker side also works well with the deck's plan of filling the graveyard for profit. She is great to provide value in long games (even without whip), is a fantastic whip target without being hard to cast otherwise, and is still useful against aggro.
Nissa is not as good here, but could still be useful. Finding lands isn't a bad thing to do in Whip decks (which like to have the mana to play spells and activate whip on same turn, as well as having a mana dump on tasigur), and she is a really powerful late-game tool (who, again, combos with whip). However, I don't see her as any more than a questionable sideboard option for control unless something changes, and since whip is gone at rotation, that means she will probably only go in whip decks if Origins has something that changes the meta significantly (which is possible, it's happened before)
I like new Liliana the most with Whip decks, or at least the traditional Sidisi build. Otherwise, I'm not sure if any of the other planeswalkers are good enough to warrant packing into the deck, especially since those decks are pretty filled up already. I do like Jace a lot, though. Definitely worth trying out.
Jace is already seeing some results says this article Has the Dust Settled?. I think if you can flashback one or two removal spells plus loot with him you've really gotten your value out of a 2 mana planeswalker.
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Jace, Telepath Unbound seems like the perfect fit for those Sultai Whip decks. Early on, he can be used to fuel your graveyard, specifically binning Deathmist Raptors that you happen to draw for those morph recursion chains.
Late game, you can use Whip of Erebos to recur Jace. This allows him to immediately Loot, and given that you should have 4 or more cards in your graveyard already, he'll flip, which gets him out from under the Whip's exile clause (since he exiles and returns). He can then immediately Snapcast a spell or start ticking up.
Currently Playing:
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Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
Yeah, this is definitely a Standard trick, and the standard format with both cards is pretty short, but it could be pretty good while it lasts.
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Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
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Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
Wait, so the logic is "use the worse card because the deck conditionally satisfies its awkward requirements"? If so, sounds like a bad plan. Unless jace's looting promises to be anymore relevant than satyr's, and the -3 ability has relevant targets, it may just not fit here.
Liliana, on the other hand, might be just what Sidisi Whip decks need to become teir 1 again. She has the same synergy with Whip (of being virtually unkillable without exile, kinda like how Obzedat, Ghost Council was), except she has the benefit of being easier to flip when things aren't going your way (if you flip Jace by t4, you are probably doing pretty well anyways), has a bigger body and lifelink to protect against aggro. (2/3 isn't huge, but she can block any 1-drop and some 2-drops to kill it and gain life, which is pretty good on a card designed for grind matchups). Her planeswalker side also works well with the deck's plan of filling the graveyard for profit. She is great to provide value in long games (even without whip), is a fantastic whip target without being hard to cast otherwise, and is still useful against aggro.
Nissa is not as good here, but could still be useful. Finding lands isn't a bad thing to do in Whip decks (which like to have the mana to play spells and activate whip on same turn, as well as having a mana dump on tasigur), and she is a really powerful late-game tool (who, again, combos with whip). However, I don't see her as any more than a questionable sideboard option for control unless something changes, and since whip is gone at rotation, that means she will probably only go in whip decks if Origins has something that changes the meta significantly (which is possible, it's happened before)
Maybe people were a bit too harsh on him or is it primarily demand from EDH?
"if it would leave play, exile it instead of putting it anywhere else"
edit: Just remembered people whipped and and kept obzedat, ghost council