So I haven't seen a thread on this one yet and I was wondering what people's thoughts are on the set. There seem to be a lot of people down on the set in the post full set survey, but I think there are a number of subtlety powerful cards in the set. Whenever I've seen people posting these in the past it later gets filled with cards that are obviously good, so please don't post them here.
My picks would be .....
Living Lore - I think this one is being seriously underrated at present. It seems to have good synergy with delve cards like dig through time and I think could be a real contender in standard possibly as a 1 or two of in a deck.
Skywise Teachings - Again another possible 1 or 2 of in a Jeskai tokens deck.
I could also see Savage Ventmaw performing pretty well in the same aforementioned Temur deck. Getting a second main Descent or a gigantic Crater's Claws seems really effective.
Arashin Foremost - Seems like a BW Warriors deck could be a thing. Probably not tier one, but it could be decent.
So I haven't seen a thread on this one yet and I was wondering what people's thoughts are on the set. There seem to be a lot of people down on the set in the post full set survey, but I think there are a number of subtlety powerful cards in the set. Whenever I've seen people posting these in the past it later gets filled with cards that are obviously good, so please don't post them here.
My picks would be .....
Living Lore - I think this one is being seriously underrated at present. It seems to have good synergy with delve cards like dig through time and I think could be a real contender in standard possibly as a 1 or two of in a deck.
No one really seems to know what to make of this card. It's obviously potentially very powerful, but it's not an obvious fit for the sorts of decks that run most of those expensive instants and sorceries; it's not an obvious control card, and it has no evasion. It could well be a sleeper, but equally it could just be one of those powerful cards that will struggle to find a home for the duration of its time in the format. I quite like the idea of trying to pair it with Ghastly Conscription in some kind of creature-based dredge deck, pulling out an instant army.
Skywise Teachings - Again another possible 1 or 2 of in a Jeskai tokens deck.
I don't really see this making it. The token decks are happy enough with armies of 1/1s they can buff, and have an extensive suite of token-makers already. There's just too much competition for a card that slowly generates 2/2 fliers to be attractive in my view.
Possible, and fun to try, but Battlefield Thaumaturge combines well with a lot of cards and hasn't yet really broken into Standard - I actually think the right decks are likely benefit more from the Icy Blast-for-U combo than this (but feel free to stick both in the same deck).
Pristine Skywise - In a Jeskai deck I would think that this should be nearly unkillable. Is this not just nuts in Jeskai combo?
This looked very strong when previewed but rather fell off the radar when Ojutai came along. I think that was the right call, but I'm prepared to be surprised by Skywise.
Another member of its cycle strikes me as a possible sleeper - Boltwing Marauder. As it is, Butcher of the Horde is basically big flying filler in the Mardu decks, and the loss of the white mana requirement and the fact that this can do game-winning things with Hordeling Outburst, rather than just net you 5 life, may well be enough to offset the higher cost for essentially the same stats, particularly with Brutal Hordechief being a better 4-drop. Getting an extra +2 power per Mardu Strike Leader attack isn't bad either. Raise the Alarm can put down Siege Rhinos, and Secure the Wastes basically reads "XW - Win the game".
Pro's: The built in sweeper abilities, the color green, and the high power to contribute to Formidable make this dragon a real threat. Any ability to give this creature deathtouch would be awesome.
Con's: I fully realize the "dies to Lightning Bolt" nature of this dragon. However, in a world of large dragons and awesome walkers, I think most kill spells will be stronger than the Lightning Bolt test. While this dragon is weaker, it will die to Murderous Cut just as easily as Dragonlord Atarka.
Pro's: The built in sweeper abilities, the color green, and the high power to contribute to Formidable make this dragon a real threat. Any ability to give this creature deathtouch would be awesome.
Con's: I fully realize the "dies to Lightning Bolt" nature of this dragon. However, in a world of large dragons and awesome walkers, I think most kill spells will be stronger than the Lightning Bolt test. While this dragon is weaker, it will die to Murderous Cut just as easily as Dragonlord Atarka.
Ifh-Biff Efreet this is not. The sweeper abilities are both extremely expensive, and the creature itself too slow to seem a good answer to token decks where they're relevant. Formidable is primarily a Limited mechanic, and given green's wide access to high-power creatures I doubt anyone's going to be adding cards to their deck purely or mainly to trigger the effect. It's a nice Limited card, but might well be the weakest member of its cycle even there.
Profaner of the Dead is a one sided mass bounce that affects all opponents. Fits well with a build that utilizes high toughness creatures. By itself, it can clear out X/1 and X/2 creatures.
Profaner of the Dead is a one sided mass bounce that affects all opponents. Fits well with a build that utilizes high toughness creatures. By itself, it can clear out X/1 and X/2 creatures.
I could see it being a nice combo in a UW control deck with Nyx-fleece Ram.
If you've already cast Treasure Cruise or Dig Through Time this game, it's 8/8 small upside for 4 mana. Pretty solid but not insane - Kalonian Hydra was a *considerably* better creature when on the board and it wasn't played at 5 mana.
It is also pretty strong alongside either End Hostilities or Crux of Fate - a 4 mana 5/5 is marginal, but the 'if you don't block this I can blow up the world' effect is relevant in a race.
But in both cases, you need to have already cast a spell that you probably aren't casting super-early in the game to get your creature online. The card is usually *terrible* if cast on turn 4. Overall I don't think it is reliable enough to run as either a stabilizer or a finisher - both Silumgars and new Ojutai do both better.
Haven of the Spirit Dragon I could possibly see as being a bit sleeper. If a single dragon really takes off it could be really powerful in really any combination as a means to have a land that doubles as reanimation.
Its really sort of dependent on if any dragon really takes off. Thunderbreak Regent seems like it could be good so I could possibly see some number of the havens in like a mono red deck or something of the sort. If Big Red ever has a reason to come back for instance it would be a solid card consideration in a deck like that.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I personally think myth realized will be a staple in any white based control deck as a finisher. It comes down 1st turn(control doesnt do anything 1st turn anyway) and just keeps getting bigger the longer the game goes, being an enchantment means its impossible for red to deal with...or black for that matter since it would likely be run in a WU shell you wouldnt turn it into a creature without a counter in hand. Even most green decks dont maindeck enchantment removal unless its in the form of sultai charm. Its also an end of turn mana dump, one of the cards I am most looking forward to from the set...fits several decks of mine nicely and one perfectly.
Possible, and fun to try, but Battlefield Thaumaturge combines well with a lot of cards and hasn't yet really broken into Standard - I actually think the right decks are likely benefit more from the Icy Blast-for-U combo than this (but feel free to stick both in the same deck).
I dunno, that combo looks pretty strong in token decks. Even if you can't drop five dragons on T3 (which would require buying a first-class ticket on the Christmasland Express), doing it at any point in the game is basically a sweep-or-scoop.
I just realized that Living Lore gets triggered as long as it deals any combat damage, not just to the opponent. If it survives combat, it will trigger.
I just realized that Living Lore gets triggered as long as it deals any combat damage, not just to the opponent. If it survives combat, it will trigger.
Oh - I misread that...
That makes it a lot better with End Hostilities, just need to keep up a Stubborn Denial.
Possible, and fun to try, but Battlefield Thaumaturge combines well with a lot of cards and hasn't yet really broken into Standard - I actually think the right decks are likely benefit more from the Icy Blast-for-U combo than this (but feel free to stick both in the same deck).
I dunno, that combo looks pretty strong in token decks. Even if you can't drop five dragons on T3 (which would require buying a first-class ticket on the Christmasland Express), doing it at any point in the game is basically a sweep-or-scoop.
And one problem with any sweep-or-stop combo deck is that 'sweep' is an option. I played a Magic Online game against someone who unwisely went the Singing Bell Strike rather than the Temur Ascendancy route to infinite mana. 22 21/21 hydras and their Broodmaster vs. a hand with End Hostilities.
At best, Thaumaturge/Descent seems a combo that needs Temur Ascendancy or Dragon Tempest, that fires at about the same time as Temur Ascendancy combo while requiring as many components as Temur Ascendancu combo, for about the effect of Temur Ascendancy combo, without having the body of a decent devotion deck to carry it through games where the combo doesn't work. Anticipate is of course a gift to all combo decks (and I expect it to put Jeskai Ascendancy back on the radar), but combo decks as a whole haven't fared terribly well in Khans-Fate Standard, and as every combo deck in the format relies on enchantments and enchantment hate is everywhere I don't see that changing.
As far as I can tell, Myth Realized won't make a splash in Standard because it grows too slowly there, and it's being rated deservedly high enough in Vintage, but Legacy and even Modern players are probably underestimating how good it is. It does demand the noncreature spell density of Delver of Secrets decks, and even worse, it wants them to be cheap, but early ones get enormous in both formats. What'll probably hold it back is how small it tends to be early-game (around 1-2 lore counters for surprisingly long), so it'll suffer more in aggro and fast combo metas. But grindy decks don't want to deal with a 7/7 that they couldn't remove back when it would have been a 1/1 (but conveniently wasn't a creature at that time).
Collected Company for Modern. It could be good in Standard as well but I don't really follow that format. In the right deck, this card is the replacement to Birthing Pod. It gives green card selection at instant speed. Not only can it serve as wrath protection but also digging for an answer against a Twin combo.
Also I'm really not trying to artificially inflate CC by mentioning this. In terms of transparency, I only have preordered 1 copy so far and that's for my cube. I'm preordering 2 more soon and may trade for it aggressively during the prerelease if it still hasn't caught on. All I can say is use your own judgement as I have only put my thoughts out there seeing no mention of this card at all.
Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit a Legendary 2/2 that can upgrade herself or your other creature by just playing non-token creatures. If you happen to pull off a mass non-token summon, she goes Oprah with +1/+1 counters.
I feel that Ambuscade Shaman is a solid choice for a "sleeper" card. This is mostly because Dash is going to be a complete house sooner rather than later. FRF had some solid Dash cards (Vaultbreaker and Mardu Scout have both seen fringe play) but DTK really brings some pain. So really it is the Dash mechanic as a whole which is going to sneak up on a lot of people.
The Shaman is a 4/4 haste for 3B at worst, and at best he just allows things to get crazy. How about 2R for a 6/4 who loots a card (Vaultbreaker)? That is just the beginning.
I have no idea why people are saying Narset Transcendent protects its self well enough at 7 loyalty in Standard or that Rebounding End Hostilities is a great control safety net for two turns...all of the Dash creatures don't give a damn about board wipes and serious Dashers come in for 3 damage minimum (most do more).
Add actual Haste into the mix and things get ugly. Admittedly, there isn't a lot of strong Haste creatures at the moment but it could bear looking into.
I know this isnt a crazy reach, but I think deathmist raptor is going to be absolutely nuts. It is like vengevine in a sense and can amount to tremendous constant pressure.
I don't really read enough to know what is considered good already so not sure what all would be considered sleepers but I feel Dragonlord Dromoka is better than he seemed at first. I fully expect it as some kind of anti-control measure. Also I'm hoping someone makes a good deck that goes infinite with Enduring scalelord
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My picks would be .....
Living Lore - I think this one is being seriously underrated at present. It seems to have good synergy with delve cards like dig through time and I think could be a real contender in standard possibly as a 1 or two of in a deck.
Skywise Teachings - Again another possible 1 or 2 of in a Jeskai tokens deck.
Descent of the Dragons - With Battlefield Thaumaturge and three tokens this can be cast for two mana to give a really nice finisher for a deck for RR. Add Dragon Tempest and this gets nuts.
Impact Tremors - With Purphoros, God of the Forge and this in play things can get nuts with tokens. Hordeling Outburst does 9 damage and the new Secure the Wastes does 3 damage per token. I can see R devotion splash white becoming a thing.
Pristine Skywise - In a Jeskai deck I would think that this should be nearly unkillable. Is this not just nuts in Jeskai combo?
Thoughts? Other suggestions for sleepers?
I could also see Savage Ventmaw performing pretty well in the same aforementioned Temur deck. Getting a second main Descent or a gigantic Crater's Claws seems really effective.
Arashin Foremost - Seems like a BW Warriors deck could be a thing. Probably not tier one, but it could be decent.
Boltwing Marauder - I'm thinking Mardu tokens, Goblin Rabblemaster, Hordeling Outburst, Secure the Wastes, Mardu Charm, and other token sources with this evasive beater and Butcher of the Horde at the top of the curve seems like it might work.
Obscuring Aether - I highly doubt this will actually take off, but I want it to so badly.
No one really seems to know what to make of this card. It's obviously potentially very powerful, but it's not an obvious fit for the sorts of decks that run most of those expensive instants and sorceries; it's not an obvious control card, and it has no evasion. It could well be a sleeper, but equally it could just be one of those powerful cards that will struggle to find a home for the duration of its time in the format. I quite like the idea of trying to pair it with Ghastly Conscription in some kind of creature-based dredge deck, pulling out an instant army.
I don't really see this making it. The token decks are happy enough with armies of 1/1s they can buff, and have an extensive suite of token-makers already. There's just too much competition for a card that slowly generates 2/2 fliers to be attractive in my view.
Possible, and fun to try, but Battlefield Thaumaturge combines well with a lot of cards and hasn't yet really broken into Standard - I actually think the right decks are likely benefit more from the Icy Blast-for-U combo than this (but feel free to stick both in the same deck).
This looked very strong when previewed but rather fell off the radar when Ojutai came along. I think that was the right call, but I'm prepared to be surprised by Skywise.
Another member of its cycle strikes me as a possible sleeper - Boltwing Marauder. As it is, Butcher of the Horde is basically big flying filler in the Mardu decks, and the loss of the white mana requirement and the fact that this can do game-winning things with Hordeling Outburst, rather than just net you 5 life, may well be enough to offset the higher cost for essentially the same stats, particularly with Brutal Hordechief being a better 4-drop. Getting an extra +2 power per Mardu Strike Leader attack isn't bad either. Raise the Alarm can put down Siege Rhinos, and Secure the Wastes basically reads "XW - Win the game".
Pro's: The built in sweeper abilities, the color green, and the high power to contribute to Formidable make this dragon a real threat. Any ability to give this creature deathtouch would be awesome.
Con's: I fully realize the "dies to Lightning Bolt" nature of this dragon. However, in a world of large dragons and awesome walkers, I think most kill spells will be stronger than the Lightning Bolt test. While this dragon is weaker, it will die to Murderous Cut just as easily as Dragonlord Atarka.
Ifh-Biff Efreet this is not. The sweeper abilities are both extremely expensive, and the creature itself too slow to seem a good answer to token decks where they're relevant. Formidable is primarily a Limited mechanic, and given green's wide access to high-power creatures I doubt anyone's going to be adding cards to their deck purely or mainly to trigger the effect. It's a nice Limited card, but might well be the weakest member of its cycle even there.
4/3 for 5 isn't fantastic, but tapping down opposing fliers and fatties, as well as the Frost Titan-esqe effect makes it costly to remove.
Standard:
UR Ral Combo
Modern:
U Merfolk
R Goblins
Commander
RB Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
R Feldon of the Third Path
I could see it being a nice combo in a UW control deck with Nyx-fleece Ram.
If you've already cast Treasure Cruise or Dig Through Time this game, it's 8/8 small upside for 4 mana. Pretty solid but not insane - Kalonian Hydra was a *considerably* better creature when on the board and it wasn't played at 5 mana.
It is also pretty strong alongside either End Hostilities or Crux of Fate - a 4 mana 5/5 is marginal, but the 'if you don't block this I can blow up the world' effect is relevant in a race.
But in both cases, you need to have already cast a spell that you probably aren't casting super-early in the game to get your creature online. The card is usually *terrible* if cast on turn 4. Overall I don't think it is reliable enough to run as either a stabilizer or a finisher - both Silumgars and new Ojutai do both better.
Its really sort of dependent on if any dragon really takes off. Thunderbreak Regent seems like it could be good so I could possibly see some number of the havens in like a mono red deck or something of the sort. If Big Red ever has a reason to come back for instance it would be a solid card consideration in a deck like that.
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I dunno, that combo looks pretty strong in token decks. Even if you can't drop five dragons on T3 (which would require buying a first-class ticket on the Christmasland Express), doing it at any point in the game is basically a sweep-or-scoop.
Oh - I misread that...
That makes it a lot better with End Hostilities, just need to keep up a Stubborn Denial.
And one problem with any sweep-or-stop combo deck is that 'sweep' is an option. I played a Magic Online game against someone who unwisely went the Singing Bell Strike rather than the Temur Ascendancy route to infinite mana. 22 21/21 hydras and their Broodmaster vs. a hand with End Hostilities.
At best, Thaumaturge/Descent seems a combo that needs Temur Ascendancy or Dragon Tempest, that fires at about the same time as Temur Ascendancy combo while requiring as many components as Temur Ascendancu combo, for about the effect of Temur Ascendancy combo, without having the body of a decent devotion deck to carry it through games where the combo doesn't work. Anticipate is of course a gift to all combo decks (and I expect it to put Jeskai Ascendancy back on the radar), but combo decks as a whole haven't fared terribly well in Khans-Fate Standard, and as every combo deck in the format relies on enchantments and enchantment hate is everywhere I don't see that changing.
This can work in a Flyer deck. Warden of Evos Isle and Favorable Winds.
Also I'm really not trying to artificially inflate CC by mentioning this. In terms of transparency, I only have preordered 1 copy so far and that's for my cube. I'm preordering 2 more soon and may trade for it aggressively during the prerelease if it still hasn't caught on. All I can say is use your own judgement as I have only put my thoughts out there seeing no mention of this card at all.
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The Shaman is a 4/4 haste for 3B at worst, and at best he just allows things to get crazy. How about 2R for a 6/4 who loots a card (Vaultbreaker)? That is just the beginning.
I have no idea why people are saying Narset Transcendent protects its self well enough at 7 loyalty in Standard or that Rebounding End Hostilities is a great control safety net for two turns...all of the Dash creatures don't give a damn about board wipes and serious Dashers come in for 3 damage minimum (most do more).
There is a lot of collective support for Dash, too. Orc Sureshot and Impact Tremors to name a few.
Add actual Haste into the mix and things get ugly. Admittedly, there isn't a lot of strong Haste creatures at the moment but it could bear looking into.