I think what he meant was: If you can cast Savage Ventmaw, you can cast almost whatever the Ventmaw could ramp you into.
Again this dragon lacks haste for it to truly be construct material.
Whatever card I cold cast off ventmaws mana I could just cast anyway since the mana produced and his mana cost are basically the same.
The decks wants to kill at 6 mana with 1 tempest enchantment and 3 creatures or 2 tempests and 2 creatures.
After seeing the Bees' lists at the pro tour I made a different edition of the deck. -4 outburst & -2 ashcloud, +3 Hornets Nest & +3 Roast, -2 Xenagos &-2 rattleclaw, +4 elvish mystic
spells - 14 3 Dragon Tempest 3 Draconic Roar - good removal and can hit our own nest. The 3 damage to us doesnt matter if used in those situations (kill Ojatai, slimgar, combo off on our turn) 3 Roast - increases total removal to the deck and you can use it on your own Nest giving you 5 guys. 2 commune with the gods - greater access to Tempest and when tempest is already in play digs me to my dragons. +1, -1 tempest? Play Den collector to get back milled Descents? 3 Decent of Dragons - dont want too many. -1, +1 Den Collector? Nah
After thinking about it, I am confident this version is better. Nest has more synergy with the deck idea and better at stalling until the dragon descent, it is also can produce more creatures of higher quality than outburst. (easier to cast too, on T2 no less)
Adding the Roasts increases total removal in the deck while enabling synergy with nest. Changing Roars to lightning strikes improves the control matchup and enables you to hit your own nests. Adding Elvish mystic increases the acceleration and overall the deck has a lower curve.
Here are some new 'lines of play':
T2: Tempest
T3: nest
T4: roast the nest, attack for 5 (haste from Tempest)
T2: Tempest
T3: nest
T4: regent, 'ping' nest for one, attack for 5 with regent and hornet.
Remember with tempest and nest out with lightning strike and descent in hand, you can EOT strike nest, untap and play descent FTW out of no where (21 damage)
Latest edition.
-1 Descent, +1 Commune with the gods: dont like having Descent in my hand before I am ready for it.
-1 Hornet Nest, +1 Mountain
-1 forest, +1 mountain
changed Sideboard
spells - 14 3 Dragon Tempest 3 Draconic Roar - good removal and can hit our own nest. If we have a dragon out it would deal us 3 damage but in most cases it would be worth it, to kill Ojatai, slimgar, combo off on our turn, etc 3 Roast - increases total removal to the deck and you can use it on your own Nest giving you 5 guys. 3 commune with the gods - greater access to Tempest and when tempest is already in play digs me to my dragons. +1, -1 tempest? Play Den collector to get back milled Descents? 2 Decent of Dragons
Latest edition.
-1 Descent, +1 Commune with the gods: dont like having Descent in my hand before I am ready for it.
-1 Hornet Nest, +1 Mountain
-1 forest, +1 Rugged Highland - lack of T1 plays allows more space for T1 CIPT lands.
changed Sideboard
spells - 14 3 Dragon Tempest 3 Draconic Roar - good removal and can hit our own nest. If we have a dragon out it would deal us 3 damage but in most cases it would be worth it, to kill Ojatai, slimgar, combo off on our turn, etc 3 Roast - increases total removal to the deck and you can use it on your own Nest giving you 5 guys. 3 commune with the gods - greater access to Tempest and when tempest is already in play digs me to my dragons. +1, -1 tempest? Play Den collector to get back milled Descents? 2 Decent of Dragons
4th edition.
-3 nest, +3 Raptor – better against control without much draw back against faster decks. Opens sideboard space
-1 Roast, +1 Raptor – without nests roasts are less useful
-4 elf, +3 Den Protector, +1 commune – with so much ‘digging’, Den Protectors main enable access to the combo if the pieces get trashed as well as reviving raptors.
+1 forest, -1 mountain – mana requirements
Don’t know how much I’ll miss the acceleration the elves provide. Still not sure if Raptors are better than the nest plan. For a while I was running a singleton assault formation for the caryatids, coursers and nests ~ commune could find it. That list looked like this:
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
It would cost one less.
And you'd get 6 at least once if you attack or play aggro
Atarka and ventmaw are too expensive for the deck.
what would you take out?
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
What about you?
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
I would play the ventmaw for mana ramp
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
Descent of the Dragons or See the Unwritten are decent uses of the mana.
Again this dragon lacks haste for it to truly be construct material.
Whatever card I cold cast off ventmaws mana I could just cast anyway since the mana produced and his mana cost are basically the same.
The decks wants to kill at 6 mana with 1 tempest enchantment and 3 creatures or 2 tempests and 2 creatures.
just doesnt fit.
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid - good target for descent, hexproof and acceleration
4 Hornets Nest - replaces hordling outburst. I think this card stalls the board better than outburst
3 Courser of Kruphix - was rabblemaster, got killed too easily. Only 3 due to commune>flexibility
4 Thunderbreak Regent
4 Stormbreath dragon
spells - 14
3 Dragon Tempest
3 Draconic Roar - good removal and can hit our own nest. The 3 damage to us doesnt matter if used in those situations (kill Ojatai, slimgar, combo off on our turn)
3 Roast - increases total removal to the deck and you can use it on your own Nest giving you 5 guys.
2 commune with the gods - greater access to Tempest and when tempest is already in play digs me to my dragons. +1, -1 tempest? Play Den collector to get back milled Descents?
3 Decent of Dragons - dont want too many. -1, +1 Den Collector? Nah
7 Forest
4 Mountain
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Wooded Foothill
2 Mana Confluence
2 Haven of the spirit dragon - 1st was Rugged Highland. +2nd, -1 mountain. Get dragons back milled by commune.
2 Whisperwood Elemental - anti_wrath, for control
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 deathmist raptor - great against control especially in conjunction with ashcloud and whisperwood.
1 den protector - indirectly increases the amount of sideboard cards I have in that he can get them back.
3 Seismic Rupture - RDW
2 destructive revelry - constellation and whip decks
1 Mob Rule - devotion decks
thoughts?
After thinking about it, I am confident this version is better. Nest has more synergy with the deck idea and better at stalling until the dragon descent, it is also can produce more creatures of higher quality than outburst. (easier to cast too, on T2 no less)
Adding the Roasts increases total removal in the deck while enabling synergy with nest. Changing Roars to lightning strikes improves the control matchup and enables you to hit your own nests. Adding Elvish mystic increases the acceleration and overall the deck has a lower curve.
Here are some new 'lines of play':
T2: Tempest
T3: nest
T4: roast the nest, attack for 5 (haste from Tempest)
T2: Tempest
T3: nest
T4: regent, 'ping' nest for one, attack for 5 with regent and hornet.
Remember with tempest and nest out with lightning strike and descent in hand, you can EOT strike nest, untap and play descent FTW out of no where (21 damage)
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
Latest edition.
-1 Descent, +1 Commune with the gods: dont like having Descent in my hand before I am ready for it.
-1 Hornet Nest, +1 Mountain
-1 forest, +1 mountain
changed Sideboard
4 Elvish Mystic - Gotta love T2 nest and coursers
4 Sylvan Caryatid - good target for descent, hexproof and acceleration
3 Hornets Nest - replaces hordling outburst. I think this card stalls the board better than outburst
3 Courser of Kruphix - was rabblemaster, got killed too easily. Only 3 due to commune>flexibility
4 Thunderbreak Regent
4 Stormbreath dragon
spells - 14
3 Dragon Tempest
3 Draconic Roar - good removal and can hit our own nest. If we have a dragon out it would deal us 3 damage but in most cases it would be worth it, to kill Ojatai, slimgar, combo off on our turn, etc
3 Roast - increases total removal to the deck and you can use it on your own Nest giving you 5 guys.
3 commune with the gods - greater access to Tempest and when tempest is already in play digs me to my dragons. +1, -1 tempest? Play Den collector to get back milled Descents?
2 Decent of Dragons
8 Forest
4 Mountain
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Wooded Foothill
2 Mana Confluence
2 Haven of the spirit dragon - 1st was Rugged Highland. +2nd, -1 mountain. Get dragons back milled by commune.
1 Whisperwood Elemental - anti_wrath, for control
2 Ashcloud Phoenix
4 deathmist raptor - great against control especially in conjunction with ashcloud and whisperwood.
3 den protector - indirectly increases the amount of sideboard cards I have in that he can get them back.
3 Seismic Rupture - RDW
2 destructive revelry - Whip of Erbos and Mastery of the unseen
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91
-3 nest, +3 Raptor – better against control without much draw back against faster decks. Opens sideboard space
-1 Roast, +1 Raptor – without nests roasts are less useful
-4 elf, +3 Den Protector, +1 commune – with so much ‘digging’, Den Protectors main enable access to the combo if the pieces get trashed as well as reviving raptors.
+1 forest, -1 mountain – mana requirements
4 Sylvan Caryatid - good target for descent, hexproof and acceleration
4 Deathmist Raptor – better than Nest?
3 Courser of Kruphix
3 Den Protector – find missing pieces, revive Raptors
4 Thunderbreak Regent
4 Stormbreath dragon
spells - 14
4 commune with the gods - greater access to Tempest and when tempest is already in play digs me to my dragons.
3 Dragon Tempest
3 Draconic Roar
2 Roast
2 Decent of Dragons
7 Forest
4 Mountain
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Wooded Foothill
2 Mana Confluence
2 Haven of the spirit dragon
1 Rugged Highland - replacing one forest
3 Seismic Rupture - RDW
2 destructive revelry - Whip of Erbos and Mastery of the unseen
2 Roast – Abzan Decks, -X commune
2 Whisperwood Elemental - anti_wrath, for control and replaces S.B against RDW
2 Ashcloud Phoenix – control and RDW, replaces combo pieces
2 Xenagos, the reveler - control and RDW, replaces combo pieces
2 X? 1Den Protector? +x Whisperwood/ashcloud/Xenagos, need YOUR help here, whatcha think?
Don’t know how much I’ll miss the acceleration the elves provide. Still not sure if Raptors are better than the nest plan. For a while I was running a singleton assault formation for the caryatids, coursers and nests ~ commune could find it. That list looked like this:
4 Sylvan Caryatid - good target for descent, hexproof and acceleration
3 Hornet Nest
3 Courser of Kruphix
3 Den Protector - find missing pieces, revive Raptors
4 Thunderbreak Regent
4 Stormbreath dragon
3 Dragon Tempest
3 Draconic Roar
3 Roast
3 commune with the gods - greater access to Tempest and when tempest is already in play digs me to my dragons.
1 assault Formation
2 Decent of Dragons
Props to DarkNightCavalier 4 da banner and SGT_Chubbz 4 avvie, here
Standard
GRAggro
GRWNaya Purphoros
GWAggro Retired 9/19/2014
RGPrimeval Titan RIP
1/5/2010 - 9/30/2011
Top 4 Channelfireball Winter series 5k Feb. 2011
3rd at California National Qualifiers 2011
40th at GP SLC 2012
Find me on MTGO @ Ruslvmusl91