Hi there. Now that all 5 of the Elder Dragons are spoiled I was curious what people think is the strongest. Even if they are not up to a Titan power level for their mana costs they all seem like they have powerful effects and I think they will be a lot of fun to play with. Personally I think Ojutai is the most likely to see standard play being only 5 mana although Atarka seems incredible even for 7 mana. I'd say Silumgar would maybe come in third for me. Kolaghan and Dromoka are awesome too but I think they might the runner-ups. Pretty hard to say since the cycle seems pretty balanced. I hope we see all of them in tournaments to come but that may be wishful thinking. Anyways please vote!
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On-topic:
Ojutai is definitely the strongest, having the cheapest mana cost, being protected from spot removal long enough to protect him from any removal they have when he'll attack, and offering a strong draw ability on hit.
Dromaka is probably the second best. Huge body, lifelink, uncounterable, AND makes your other stuff impossible to mess with.
Kolaghan is a good third choice. He all but guarantees six the turn he comes down, and if you make note of what removal spells your opponent has available to them, you can generally guarantee another 10 by casting him when they've already expended one copy of their spell(s) that can kill him.
Silumgar is up next. He's a souped-up Sower of Temptation with a much more resilient body. This guy will easily tear up standard.
Atarka seems the least useful. Her body is huge, but so is her price tag. Annoyingly, her ETB can't kill the entirety of a Hornet Queen swarm, meaning you can get through for 7 trample but will just die to deathtouch.
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I'm going to go ahead and say Atarka is the most powerful in the group.
Why?
She's an 8/8 for 7, which is absolutely massive just to start off. Seven mana is not at all hard to hit for GR decks, especially with cards that can pull her out easily like See the Unwritten. Her ETB effect is very powerful, allowing you to kill pretty much every relevant creature in Standard as it enters. If it hit players, the card would be way way way too good.
2nd would be Silumgar, followed shortly by Dromaka and then Ojutai. I think Silumgar has some serious potential in an unexplored UBx deck. Dromaka is a nice kick in the face of UB, but that's basically it. Ojutai is decent, but he's not very formidable when it comes to his body. He dies in every fight. I understand that the deck will build around him and make him work, but I think there are just better cards for doing what Ojutai does.
Kolaghan ~could~ see some play in a Jund dragon deck, but only in the board against decks with lots of copies of the same creatures and Planeswalker cards (see Abzan)
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Ojutai protects himself and vigilance (or even just put a pair of boots on him) can allow her to draw you cards every turn, not to mention she is already in the colors of control and protection. Dromoka protects herself from counters and from spells during your turn and could hit for massive life swing, and again she is also in the color of protection. Silumgar's ability can control the biggest threat on the board and could be protected with counters.
I'd rank Atarka above Kolaghan because Atarka is a better general in EDH. She is also more useful at dealing with immediate threat than Kolaghan.
Sorry about that moderator definitely meant to post this in new card discussion. I thought this would be worth a discussion since I think Wizards did a good job of balancing this cycle. Obviously you can't really evaluate cards in a vacuum and whether a card is powerful or not depends largely on the context of what other people are playing.
That being said I'm starting to think Ojutai might not be the best of the cycle. Although he is the cheapest mana cost he does pair up poorly against some other high-end creatures in standard. I wouldn't count him out with his hexproof though. Even though it is conditional you probably get a turn to get a counterspell or other protection and I think he could be a better Prognostic Sphinx in the right deck.
I'm thinking I like Atarka the best actually. Although she can't kill a Hornet Queen completely she can still trample over for a ton of damage and the 5 ETB damage kills a lot of the best creatures in standard. The utility to hit planeswalkers is a needed addition although I still wish it could hit players but for a mana less than Bogardan Hellkite I think it's still very good.
I'm sort of liking Dromoka the more I think about it. The question is, is the additional mana cost and green worth a Baneslayer Angel with some additional upside. Probably not but we don't often see big flyers like this with lifelink so I'd love to try it in a Naya or WG deck.
Silumgar is cool but not as good Sower of Temptation. If this sees any constructed play it would probably be for the ability to steal a planeswalker. Either way it is probably the strongest ability on the weakest body of the Elder Dragons. I want this for EDH!
Kolaghan does have a lot of threatening abilities. Obviously a Rorix Bladewing with upside can't be too bad but her other abilities do seem rather win more and we've seen other 6 mana dragons with haste in the paste that haven't been successful. I think BR might be more interested in the original Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury so I wouldn't count on this one.
Hmm, misread Kolaghan's flashy ability to be against non-creature, non-planeswalker spells -> like removal and sustain. That it only accounts creatures and planeswalkers makes it increasingly less appealing. Considering that it only accounts graveyards and not exile, it means Treasure Cruise gets a defensive capability against him here. And TC is pretty popular in any deck that can legitimately run it, so it'll get increasingly difficult to get him to proc.
That basically sets him back from a first place to 3rd or 4th.
Well I guess we're looking at:
1: Ojutai (hexproof till you're ready to attack makes him resilient and being the cheapest grants a large bonus)
2: Dromoka (mostly due to colors being able to ramp him out faster, having good stats and no answer when played - before an attack can force removal if played in first main phase)
3: Silumgar (effectively being removal against both creatures and planeswalkers makes him powerful, even if his body is unimpressive - although you could consider his mind controlled companion to add to his stats)
4: Kolaghan (6 hasted evasive damage is nothing to scuff at and the rest is just cherry, however nothing special and generally seems outshined by Sarkhan or Stormbreath)
5: Atarka (again this heavily costed dragon - this time albeit with an impressive body and the wanna-be Bogardan Hellkite entrance - but then again it isn't and that's bad! Generally seems too late to the party)
Hmm, misread Kolaghan's flashy ability to be against non-creature, non-planeswalker spells -> like removal and sustain. That it only accounts creatures and planeswalkers makes it increasingly less appealing. Considering that it only accounts graveyards and not exile, it means Treasure Cruise gets a defensive capability against him here. And TC is pretty popular in any deck that can legitimately run it, so it'll get increasingly difficult to get him to proc.
That basically sets him back from a first place to 3rd or 4th.
Well I guess we're looking at:
1: Ojutai (hexproof till you're ready to attack makes him resilient and being the cheapest grants a large bonus)
2: Dromoka (mostly due to colors being able to ramp him out faster, having good stats and no answer when played - before an attack can force removal if played in first main phase)
3: Silumgar (effectively being removal against both creatures and planeswalkers makes him powerful, even if his body is unimpressive - although you could consider his mind controlled companion to add to his stats)
4: Kolaghan (6 hasted evasive damage is nothing to scuff at and the rest is just cherry, however nothing special and generally seems outshined by Sarkhan or Stormbreath)
5: Atarka (again this heavily costed dragon - this time albeit with an impressive body and the wanna-be Bogardan Hellkite entrance - but then again it isn't and that's bad! Generally seems too late to the party)
I find it interesting that you would place Dromoka so highly. Compared to Atarka, who you put last because he's "too late to the party", he only costs 1 less and with Atarka's Command and Xenagos, the Reveler, RG can actually ramp faster than GW, so Atarka would most likely come in either at the same time as or faster than Dromoka does. Atarka also has a powerful ETB effect whereas Dromoka is the only Dragonlord that effectively does nothing the turn he enters. Odds are all of the Dragonlords are going to be removal magnets, which is why I think it's so important that they do something when they enter or, in the case of Ojutai, dodge removal. Dromoka's certainly more likely to actually resolve than any of the other Dragonlords but he's just as likely to die when it gets back around to your opponents turn as any of the others. An 8/8 body is also naturally going to have a bigger impact than a 5/7 should they not kill the Dragonlord, at which point I think how good the life gain is would be debatable because you've probably won the game anyway.
Because I figure the uncounter-ability and the Grand Abolisher-passive forces your opponent's hand, which could easily be a good thing in calculating combat. Also if they desire to remove Dromoka it means the mana they might have reserved for removal in your turn is wasted effort and they have to use their removal on their own turn - effectively locking up a lot of mana.
So saying he does nothing is wrong - it's just more subtle than Atarka.
I put Atarka lower because of his colors. GR monsters doesn't seem to be doing that well atm compared to Abzan midrange - which makes Dromoka more likely to be featured because he has a potential base.
Although I think his first iteration might be better - and that is not even featured.
I think Dromoka's second iteration is dependent on the success of blue counter-control and for his lifelink in a race against something like burn - so a tech card in some way. Although Siege Rhino kinda fills that hole so it might be entirely unwarranted.
But Dromoka has the highest life-swing of all the dragons and that counts for something.
1. Atarka ! I playtested her. Being in green ensures she arries 1 - 2 turns sooner. & shes a big Removal spell + Giant trampling Flyer. She somehow does what Siege Rhino does: Powerful Enter-trigger & a huge evasive Body.
2. Dromoka Most expect to see here at least Ojutai. But Ojutai was not very convincing in playtests due to her lil toughness d:( Dromoka has a big Body & swings for 10 point Lifeswing! & she has something against Controll too.
3. Ojutai, Kolaghan & Silumghar have to share 3rd place. Theyre all strong enough for T2 in my opinion.
Dromoka seems overrated. For such anti-control abilities, they gave her Lifelink, which control decks simply don't care about in most cases. At most, she makes control tap a few more lands on their own turn than they'd normally want to, but she doesn't have Haste to capitalize on that tempo loss. I dunno, I just don't see it.
Atarka seems underrated, but I still don't see her getting play except for some sideboard action until Hornet Queen rotates. Queen is just better.
Ojutai is the nuts of the group, and my vote for the best. He clocks opponents while generating card advantage, shrugs off spot removal whenever you can't back him up with counters, and at worst trades with most threats in the format except Stormbreath. Bonus points for giving Control a playable dragon in case Dragonlord's Prerogative sees play. I mean, he's not Aetherling, but let's compare him to what finishers Control already has:
-Pearl Lake Ancient: Nigh unkillable, but not evasive, and requires immense patience to win the game. By the time a control deck is ready to cast him, opponents' hands are typically full of unused kill spells. This makes him glacially slow to offset his defensive capability.
-Prognostic Sphinx: 3 power is low, making this guy take forever to kill somebody. Scry 3 on attack is strong, but worse than Ojutai's trigger (though offset somewhat by it being a trigger on attack rather than on damage). He only defends himself through discarding cards, and since it taps him, he's an unreliable blocker.
-Any planeswalker: There are too many removal spells for them to count on as the sole finisher of a deck, especially if the control player is forced to use them defensively.
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Atarka. 8/8 trample flying for 7 in the ramp colors. He's removal on a wincon for relatively cheap against midrange. Against control, he's just an insanely efficient threat.
The UW one is good too, but Atarka is the next level compared to all of these.
I'm gonna go Ojutai, then Atarka, Silumgar, Dromoka, and Kologhan.
Limited:
Ojutai: Tied for the cheapest mana cost among the dargons in the old folks home. Has protection the turn you cast him (probably should be her) and swings for 5 in the air while filtering your draws and digging through your library the next turn. Sure (s)he lost 3 points of toughness, but he has conditional hexproof now.
Atarka: We meet again, Bogardan Hellkite. Atarka's the most expensive dargon, but she's also the most expansive. An 8/8 flier with trample is nothing to look down on. And she's in green, so if you manage to get ramp in your pool, hello turn 5 Atarka. Also, not that this will happen in any draft ever, but she kills Siege Rhino with her ETB.
Silumgar: Another cheap drago- I mean dargon. Silumgar's lost hexproof and two toughness, but he can steal your opponent's biggest threats. Hey, nice Sarkhan Unbroken. That's mine now. (And even if your opponent's playing jeskai or something and has no creatures, you still get a 3/5 flier with deathtouch)
Dromoka: Hello Dromoka, goodbye pesky combat tricks! Dromaka's also in green so if you can, ramp. Lifelink's nice with five power, and she can't be countered, so I'd Imagine this'll be a threat at the prerelease.
Kologhan: Hmm... I don't know how much her last ability will be triggered in limited, but at least she's a Fervor on legs.
EDH:
Ojutai: Still good. Maybe play in Azorius control, as this could be a strong finisher.
Atarka: Now with more ramp! With good ramp and draws, you could get her out turn four or five, Generator Servant for haste, perhaps?
Silumgar: The bane of voltron players everywhere. And superfriends. And weird combo decks that need their commander to work.
Dromoka: I can't tell you how many times my commander has been Spell Crumpled. Never again.
Kologhan: Har har har, an elder dragon is bad in the format named after her creature type... said everyone. At least she'll mess up Shadowborn Apostle decks.
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Ojutai is probably the strongest of the 5, and I can't see how anyone can account as a weakness that he can't block a Rhino and survive - I mean, Ojutai 's role is not that of coming down and block opposing threats, he's out to finish the game backed up by the extensive array of tools from UW decks, which Ojutai himself helps to find with his Anticipate-like ability.
Silumgar and Atarka are probably equal at 2nd, with very powerful ETB abilities which can steal games on the spot.
Kolaghan and Dromoka, I just don't see them being all that good, Dromoka is probably better than Kolaghan tho.
And, you know, I'm pretty okay with Ojutai trading with a Rhino if that's what's needed. A one-for-one is okay, as long as Ojutai wasn't our only means of winning the game.
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Formerly Angrypossum over at the now-defunct WotC forums.
Famous last words. I'll be sure to bump your post when Atarka wins a Standard GP.
All the dragons affect the battlefield immediately, so they all have individual constructed merits.
1. Atarka is rather silly, it just singlehandedly warps the complexion of the battlefield dramatically in your favor. Eats a lot of planeswalkers without the requirement of attacking.
2. Silumgar is a little overrated but getting an instant activation from a stolen planeswalker helps balance out its vulnerability. Then again, Sower of Temptation has always been a fairly powerful effect regardless of its fragility. Maybe the 5 toughness is the magic number to make it a top-shelf performer.
3. Dromoka is a huge beating. It will always force your opponent to use their answers on their turn. And if they don't have one, you get to apply even more pressure that they can only answer on their turn.
4. Ojutai is surprisingly aggressive and surprisingly hard to kill, but may just not be as efficient as Prognostic Sphinx.
5. Kolaghan is funky, but team haste doesn't seem worth working towards from a B/R perspective. Is a 6-mana 6/5 flying haste that bad? Maybe if the colors were changed it would have a better chance. This just does not provide much motivation for a player to go black-red.
Frankly i could care two piles of warm poo less what atarka does in standard.
All dragons affect the battlefield immediately: Well unless you are ramping hard, immediately translates to turn 5 or later.
1. Atarka is a worse bogardan hellkite. Maybe if it had haste...
2. Silumgar is a lot overrated like the rest. The steal effect is nice but even with help it takes a while to kill with a power 3 creature and him coming down turn 6 means your opponent had a lot of time to find an answer. His first version was much better.
3. I like Dromoka except he's a worse Sigarda. He's about as good as these dragons get, well Ojutai might be a bit better.
4. The situational hexproof is ok and Ojutai has a decent body and evasion but again, its not anything exceptional. You comparing it to prognostic sphinx is pretty telling. That sells for a whapping $3 a playset and may be better...
5. Koala had such potential... Eh, at least it has haste.
So yeah, feel free when Atarka does all that. Cause I'm sure folks aren't gonna be able to answer him turn 4 with all the two mana spells out their that kill him dead. Yeah, you might two for one but there are better ways to do that. IDK, like I said, I could care less about standard. But hey, all you guys wanna line WotC bank account buying weak cards, be my guest. So far there's like one card that will hold its value after rotation and surprise surprise, its not a dragon. Honestly I see as much promise in the uncommon dragons than any of the rare or mythic ones.
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So yeah, feel free when Atarka does all that. Cause I'm sure folks aren't gonna be able to answer him turn 4 with all the two mana spells out their that kill him dead. Yeah, you might two for one but there are better ways to do that.
"Dies to removal" is not an argument that works against creatures that generate value upon entering the battlefield (Siege Rhino, Hornet Queen, Sidisi). Atarka isn't going to get "answered" without "answering" two or three creatures/planeswalkers himself. You seem to be purposefully unrealistic when you say "you might get a two for one" because I'm pretty sure you'll almost never get anything less than that -- with upside for way more.
I had an interesting playtest game where my opponent thoughtseized me turn 1 and then later in the game refused to play Elspeth because they new I had a castable atarka in hand.
LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
Well, no you won't. It can be countered, it can be cast with nothing on the field or your opponent could give the target of its ability pro red until end of turn in response. And how dependent are you gonna be on Atarka sticking? I mean if your going through all the trouble to place her, I can't imagine that having her die is a part of any plan. And of course the value generated by her mitigates some of the dies to removal argument, but not all of it. Two for oning is a big deal but you have to keep an eye on what hoops you're jumping through to pull that off. If you're dedicating a bunch of card slots to ramping her, those are resources being used up just to play her, not to play magic. I could see the effort being worthwhile if there was some decent recursion around, but there isn't. And in formats where there is, Atarka just isn't good enough.
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Well, no you won't. It can be countered, it can be cast with nothing on the field or your opponent could give the target of its ability pro red until end of turn in response. And how dependent are you gonna be on Atarka sticking? I mean if your going through all the trouble to place her, I can't imagine that having her die is a part of any plan. And of course the value generated by her mitigates some of the dies to removal argument, but not all of it. Two for oning is a big deal but you have to keep an eye on what hoops you're jumping through to pull that off. If you're dedicating a bunch of card slots to ramping her, those are resources being used up just to play her, not to play magic. I could see the effort being worthwhile if there was some decent recursion around, but there isn't. And in formats where there is, Atarka just isn't good enough.
I'd say a GR deck running Atarka would be about as reliant on the card as they would most of their other big monsters that they're already ramping into. Countering an Atarka isn't going to be the end of the world for the kind of deck that wants to run it, and it would definitely get boarded out into control matchups, but playing it against aggro or tokens, it's basically a one-sided board wipe that leaves you with an 8/8 flyer and against Abzan it kills Rhino and still leaves you with a fatty. If they kill it then... oh well, one less Hero's Downfall available to hit the Ugin that's coming next turn.
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On-topic:
Ojutai is definitely the strongest, having the cheapest mana cost, being protected from spot removal long enough to protect him from any removal they have when he'll attack, and offering a strong draw ability on hit.
Dromaka is probably the second best. Huge body, lifelink, uncounterable, AND makes your other stuff impossible to mess with.
Kolaghan is a good third choice. He all but guarantees six the turn he comes down, and if you make note of what removal spells your opponent has available to them, you can generally guarantee another 10 by casting him when they've already expended one copy of their spell(s) that can kill him.
Silumgar is up next. He's a souped-up Sower of Temptation with a much more resilient body. This guy will easily tear up standard.
Atarka seems the least useful. Her body is huge, but so is her price tag. Annoyingly, her ETB can't kill the entirety of a Hornet Queen swarm, meaning you can get through for 7 trample but will just die to deathtouch.
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She's an 8/8 for 7, which is absolutely massive just to start off. Seven mana is not at all hard to hit for GR decks, especially with cards that can pull her out easily like See the Unwritten. Her ETB effect is very powerful, allowing you to kill pretty much every relevant creature in Standard as it enters. If it hit players, the card would be way way way too good.
2nd would be Silumgar, followed shortly by Dromaka and then Ojutai. I think Silumgar has some serious potential in an unexplored UBx deck. Dromaka is a nice kick in the face of UB, but that's basically it. Ojutai is decent, but he's not very formidable when it comes to his body. He dies in every fight. I understand that the deck will build around him and make him work, but I think there are just better cards for doing what Ojutai does.
Kolaghan ~could~ see some play in a Jund dragon deck, but only in the board against decks with lots of copies of the same creatures and Planeswalker cards (see Abzan)
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I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Ojutai protects himself and vigilance (or even just put a pair of boots on him) can allow her to draw you cards every turn, not to mention she is already in the colors of control and protection. Dromoka protects herself from counters and from spells during your turn and could hit for massive life swing, and again she is also in the color of protection. Silumgar's ability can control the biggest threat on the board and could be protected with counters.
I'd rank Atarka above Kolaghan because Atarka is a better general in EDH. She is also more useful at dealing with immediate threat than Kolaghan.
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That being said I'm starting to think Ojutai might not be the best of the cycle. Although he is the cheapest mana cost he does pair up poorly against some other high-end creatures in standard. I wouldn't count him out with his hexproof though. Even though it is conditional you probably get a turn to get a counterspell or other protection and I think he could be a better Prognostic Sphinx in the right deck.
I'm thinking I like Atarka the best actually. Although she can't kill a Hornet Queen completely she can still trample over for a ton of damage and the 5 ETB damage kills a lot of the best creatures in standard. The utility to hit planeswalkers is a needed addition although I still wish it could hit players but for a mana less than Bogardan Hellkite I think it's still very good.
I'm sort of liking Dromoka the more I think about it. The question is, is the additional mana cost and green worth a Baneslayer Angel with some additional upside. Probably not but we don't often see big flyers like this with lifelink so I'd love to try it in a Naya or WG deck.
Silumgar is cool but not as good Sower of Temptation. If this sees any constructed play it would probably be for the ability to steal a planeswalker. Either way it is probably the strongest ability on the weakest body of the Elder Dragons. I want this for EDH!
Kolaghan does have a lot of threatening abilities. Obviously a Rorix Bladewing with upside can't be too bad but her other abilities do seem rather win more and we've seen other 6 mana dragons with haste in the paste that haven't been successful. I think BR might be more interested in the original Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury so I wouldn't count on this one.
That basically sets him back from a first place to 3rd or 4th.
Well I guess we're looking at:
1: Ojutai (hexproof till you're ready to attack makes him resilient and being the cheapest grants a large bonus)
2: Dromoka (mostly due to colors being able to ramp him out faster, having good stats and no answer when played - before an attack can force removal if played in first main phase)
3: Silumgar (effectively being removal against both creatures and planeswalkers makes him powerful, even if his body is unimpressive - although you could consider his mind controlled companion to add to his stats)
4: Kolaghan (6 hasted evasive damage is nothing to scuff at and the rest is just cherry, however nothing special and generally seems outshined by Sarkhan or Stormbreath)
5: Atarka (again this heavily costed dragon - this time albeit with an impressive body and the wanna-be Bogardan Hellkite entrance - but then again it isn't and that's bad! Generally seems too late to the party)
I find it interesting that you would place Dromoka so highly. Compared to Atarka, who you put last because he's "too late to the party", he only costs 1 less and with Atarka's Command and Xenagos, the Reveler, RG can actually ramp faster than GW, so Atarka would most likely come in either at the same time as or faster than Dromoka does. Atarka also has a powerful ETB effect whereas Dromoka is the only Dragonlord that effectively does nothing the turn he enters. Odds are all of the Dragonlords are going to be removal magnets, which is why I think it's so important that they do something when they enter or, in the case of Ojutai, dodge removal. Dromoka's certainly more likely to actually resolve than any of the other Dragonlords but he's just as likely to die when it gets back around to your opponents turn as any of the others. An 8/8 body is also naturally going to have a bigger impact than a 5/7 should they not kill the Dragonlord, at which point I think how good the life gain is would be debatable because you've probably won the game anyway.
So saying he does nothing is wrong - it's just more subtle than Atarka.
I put Atarka lower because of his colors. GR monsters doesn't seem to be doing that well atm compared to Abzan midrange - which makes Dromoka more likely to be featured because he has a potential base.
Although I think his first iteration might be better - and that is not even featured.
I think Dromoka's second iteration is dependent on the success of blue counter-control and for his lifelink in a race against something like burn - so a tech card in some way. Although Siege Rhino kinda fills that hole so it might be entirely unwarranted.
But Dromoka has the highest life-swing of all the dragons and that counts for something.
2. Dromoka Most expect to see here at least Ojutai. But Ojutai was not very convincing in playtests due to her lil toughness d:( Dromoka has a big Body & swings for 10 point Lifeswing! & she has something against Controll too.
3. Ojutai, Kolaghan & Silumghar have to share 3rd place. Theyre all strong enough for T2 in my opinion.
Atarka seems underrated, but I still don't see her getting play except for some sideboard action until Hornet Queen rotates. Queen is just better.
Ojutai is the nuts of the group, and my vote for the best. He clocks opponents while generating card advantage, shrugs off spot removal whenever you can't back him up with counters, and at worst trades with most threats in the format except Stormbreath. Bonus points for giving Control a playable dragon in case Dragonlord's Prerogative sees play. I mean, he's not Aetherling, but let's compare him to what finishers Control already has:
-Pearl Lake Ancient: Nigh unkillable, but not evasive, and requires immense patience to win the game. By the time a control deck is ready to cast him, opponents' hands are typically full of unused kill spells. This makes him glacially slow to offset his defensive capability.
-Prognostic Sphinx: 3 power is low, making this guy take forever to kill somebody. Scry 3 on attack is strong, but worse than Ojutai's trigger (though offset somewhat by it being a trigger on attack rather than on damage). He only defends himself through discarding cards, and since it taps him, he's an unreliable blocker.
-Any planeswalker: There are too many removal spells for them to count on as the sole finisher of a deck, especially if the control player is forced to use them defensively.
The UW one is good too, but Atarka is the next level compared to all of these.
Limited:
Ojutai: Tied for the cheapest mana cost among the dargons in the old folks home. Has protection the turn you cast him (probably should be her) and swings for 5 in the air while filtering your draws and digging through your library the next turn. Sure (s)he lost 3 points of toughness, but he has conditional hexproof now.
Atarka: We meet again, Bogardan Hellkite. Atarka's the most expensive dargon, but she's also the most expansive. An 8/8 flier with trample is nothing to look down on. And she's in green, so if you manage to get ramp in your pool, hello turn 5 Atarka. Also, not that this will happen in any draft ever, but she kills Siege Rhino with her ETB.
Silumgar: Another cheap drago- I mean dargon. Silumgar's lost hexproof and two toughness, but he can steal your opponent's biggest threats. Hey, nice Sarkhan Unbroken. That's mine now. (And even if your opponent's playing jeskai or something and has no creatures, you still get a 3/5 flier with deathtouch)
Dromoka: Hello Dromoka, goodbye pesky combat tricks! Dromaka's also in green so if you can, ramp. Lifelink's nice with five power, and she can't be countered, so I'd Imagine this'll be a threat at the prerelease.
Kologhan: Hmm... I don't know how much her last ability will be triggered in limited, but at least she's a Fervor on legs.
EDH:
Ojutai: Still good. Maybe play in Azorius control, as this could be a strong finisher.
Atarka: Now with more ramp! With good ramp and draws, you could get her out turn four or five, Generator Servant for haste, perhaps?
Silumgar: The bane of voltron players everywhere. And superfriends. And weird combo decks that need their commander to work.
Dromoka: I can't tell you how many times my commander has been Spell Crumpled. Never again.
Kologhan: Har har har, an elder dragon is bad in the format named after her creature type... said everyone. At least she'll mess up Shadowborn Apostle decks.
BW B/W tokens
Casual:
RW Circle of Protection: Deck
UBW Esper Control
EDH:
GUW Roon's Realm of Value and Fun
BGU Value is a Zombie With a Fruit Hat (Tasigur Graveyard Shenanigans)
Peasant:
BlUEREd Jeskai Sage Delver Sans Delver
Silumgar and Atarka are probably equal at 2nd, with very powerful ETB abilities which can steal games on the spot.
Kolaghan and Dromoka, I just don't see them being all that good, Dromoka is probably better than Kolaghan tho.
Famous last words. I'll be sure to bump your post when Atarka wins a Standard GP.
All the dragons affect the battlefield immediately, so they all have individual constructed merits.
1. Atarka is rather silly, it just singlehandedly warps the complexion of the battlefield dramatically in your favor. Eats a lot of planeswalkers without the requirement of attacking.
2. Silumgar is a little overrated but getting an instant activation from a stolen planeswalker helps balance out its vulnerability. Then again, Sower of Temptation has always been a fairly powerful effect regardless of its fragility. Maybe the 5 toughness is the magic number to make it a top-shelf performer.
3. Dromoka is a huge beating. It will always force your opponent to use their answers on their turn. And if they don't have one, you get to apply even more pressure that they can only answer on their turn.
4. Ojutai is surprisingly aggressive and surprisingly hard to kill, but may just not be as efficient as Prognostic Sphinx.
5. Kolaghan is funky, but team haste doesn't seem worth working towards from a B/R perspective. Is a 6-mana 6/5 flying haste that bad? Maybe if the colors were changed it would have a better chance. This just does not provide much motivation for a player to go black-red.
All dragons affect the battlefield immediately: Well unless you are ramping hard, immediately translates to turn 5 or later.
1. Atarka is a worse bogardan hellkite. Maybe if it had haste...
2. Silumgar is a lot overrated like the rest. The steal effect is nice but even with help it takes a while to kill with a power 3 creature and him coming down turn 6 means your opponent had a lot of time to find an answer. His first version was much better.
3. I like Dromoka except he's a worse Sigarda. He's about as good as these dragons get, well Ojutai might be a bit better.
4. The situational hexproof is ok and Ojutai has a decent body and evasion but again, its not anything exceptional. You comparing it to prognostic sphinx is pretty telling. That sells for a whapping $3 a playset and may be better...
5. Koala had such potential... Eh, at least it has haste.
So yeah, feel free when Atarka does all that. Cause I'm sure folks aren't gonna be able to answer him turn 4 with all the two mana spells out their that kill him dead. Yeah, you might two for one but there are better ways to do that. IDK, like I said, I could care less about standard. But hey, all you guys wanna line WotC bank account buying weak cards, be my guest. So far there's like one card that will hold its value after rotation and surprise surprise, its not a dragon. Honestly I see as much promise in the uncommon dragons than any of the rare or mythic ones.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
"Dies to removal" is not an argument that works against creatures that generate value upon entering the battlefield (Siege Rhino, Hornet Queen, Sidisi). Atarka isn't going to get "answered" without "answering" two or three creatures/planeswalkers himself. You seem to be purposefully unrealistic when you say "you might get a two for one" because I'm pretty sure you'll almost never get anything less than that -- with upside for way more.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
I'd say a GR deck running Atarka would be about as reliant on the card as they would most of their other big monsters that they're already ramping into. Countering an Atarka isn't going to be the end of the world for the kind of deck that wants to run it, and it would definitely get boarded out into control matchups, but playing it against aggro or tokens, it's basically a one-sided board wipe that leaves you with an 8/8 flyer and against Abzan it kills Rhino and still leaves you with a fatty. If they kill it then... oh well, one less Hero's Downfall available to hit the Ugin that's coming next turn.