Just bought a playset from the only seller on TCGplayer preselling them. At $5.65 a piece, I may have overpaid, but I don't want to be left in the dust with this card. It just seems too good. Nothing else in the set screams Modern-viable to me like this card does, not even Narset (and I love that card).
i think thats a pretty good price.. on mcm they cost at least 7€ currently. they may drop a little after release, before the first big tournaments start... but i think 5,65$ is a pretty reasonable price
From my testing, I think $5.65 is a bargain for Collected Company. I've found that it's strong in at least 2 Modern decks (slightly creature-heavier Goyf Twin and "Melira" "Pod" Reborn), and I think its price could easily hit $10.00 or more during its lifetime in Standard because of this.
This is going to be awesome in Standard and Modern. In Standard, this will be a great curve-topper for RG Aggro and possibly Abzan Aggro and in Modern it is just very easily abused with all of the cheap value creatures.
Thank you for the math AEIOU, I am often to lazy to do these binomial probability calculations, or make mistakes.
For modern purposes the potential hit chance takes new heights however.
Considering people run 8-12 fetches, and Knight of the Reliquary, thinning out your deck will be an easy feat.
Taking a 24 land base into account (relatively high), 24 creatures, a deck would be able to run 8 more non creature cards if you play 4 collected company's.
Both Noble Hierarch and KotR seems a logical choice to play.
Which leaves 16 creatures, 8 non creature cards, and 3 more colours to choose from.
SCG has had them at $4.99 since they were spoiled, for everyone who thinks they are going to be $7-10 in the near future. I personally think the card is being a bit overrated right now -- I'm sure it will drop below $5 after release.
So after playing with MTGPGR and getting stomped into the ground, using just about anything, I had to pick this up and test with it. Even if there's no immediate impact on modern, this will be a defining card of the coming standard. The ability to put something like Rabblemaster and Anafenza on the board at instant speed and giving them pseudohaste is just absurd.
In Modern: this may not slot into any one current deck, but it certainly could be a build around. Good Card filtration and instant Speed Voice and Goyf are just too good to say no to. I think people are going to sleep on this one. I could also see this being banned, frankly, as it seems much better than bloodbraid (you chose the perms you get, and they'll each likely be better than bloodbraid) or dig through time (filters only one less card, puts them directly into play, costs 4, and no more-- ever).
I don't even run that creature-heavy of a deck in Standard, and I'm going to be using at least 2 of these. I have 2 Elvish Mystics, 4 Sylvan Caryatids, and 4 Coursers of Kruphix in the deck, and popping this out end of turn or even in response to an attack seems insane. Seems even better if I already have a Courser out know that the top card of my library is one of my <3 CMC creatures. Also, hitting two mana dorks at the end of their turn 3 or 4 to be able to drop a Hornet Queen or Elspeth on my turn 4 or 5 would be amazing. Yeah, the variance of it all does seem to balance it out a bit, but 4CMC in green at INSTANT SPEED just screams amazing.
T1: Fetchland, Noble Hierarch
T2: Fetchland, KotR
T3: Fetchland
End of opponents T3: Tap for Mana, activate KotR, get a fetch, crack it - Collected Company into two more KoTR
T4: Fetchland, attack with 3 KotR, 5 Lands in graveyard and Hierarchs exalted trigger
Ah, I misread that as saying he would attack with 3 8/8 KotR on Turn 3 (not Turn 4) -- but yes, very unlikely. Also worth pointing out you wouldn't get the exalted trigger.
What about playing this with See the Unwritten? Does it dilute its effectiveness too much? 4 Collected Company and 2 See the Unwritten maybe? Boon Satyr can be used to give ferocious, and Anafenza the Bolsterer can also maybe build things to ferocious
Someone on reddit talked about using this in conjunction with Congregation at Dawn in Melira combo.
Congregation at dawn is the exact card you needed for this to not be brick central - there's currently nothing remotely playable in modern that has a high enough creature count to reliably even hit one creature from this, but if you can stack your deck then it changes things.
What we have is a potential toolbox deck, which means it'll probably do well at a GP before wizards bans it into the ground (toolbox decks are bad for modern apparently, re: Birthing Pod and Green Sun's Zenith). Until then, jam a bunch of mana dorks and 1-ofs into a list and see what happens I guess?
Not really. Guys on the Modern forum worked out the percentages and even with 17 creatures (not very creature heavy) you have like an 85% chance of hitting one and a 55% chance of hitting two creatures.
As to it being banned, well who knows. But it isn't on the same level as GSZ or Pod simply because it has a much higher degree of variance and is a one and done spell.
I would LOVE to see the math behind that, because my calculations are coming up with barely more than 50% of hitting even one creature with 17 targets in your deck, and if you only hit mana bugs (which you will need because this is not resolving on turn 4) then it's effectively a blank.
I also would like to note that the melira combo doesn't work, because murderous redcap costs 4 and isn't a legal collected company target, and kitchen finks' infinite life trick is blanked by three tier 1 decks in modern currently.
It's not perfect because they were using hypergeometric distribution (testing without replacement), but assume:
k = number of creatures = 17
x = number of creatures drawn (varies per calculation)
n = number of cards drawn off of Collective Community = 6
N = total number of cards = 60
Probability of hitting 1 creature (x = 1):
P(1) = [kCx]*[(N-k)C(n-x)]/[NCn]
P(1) = [17C1]*[43C5]/[60C6]
P(1) = [(17)/(1)]*[(43*42*41*40*39)/(5*4*3*2*1)]/[(60*59*58*57*56*55)/(6*5*4*3*2*1)]
P(1) = 0.32686584694
Probability of hitting 2 creatures (x = 2):
P(2) = [kCx]*[(N-k)C(n-x)]/[NCn]
P(2) = [17C2]*[43C4]/[60C6]
P(2) = [(17*16)/(2*1)]*[(43*42*41*40)/(4*3*2*1)]/[(60*59*58*57*56*55)/(6*5*4*3*2*1)]
P(2) = 0.3352470225
Probability of hitting 3 creatures (x = 3):
P(3) = [kCx]*[(N-k)C(n-x)]/[NCn]
P(3) = [17C3]*[43C3]/[60C6]
P(3) = [(17*16*15)/(3*2*1)]*[(43*42*41)/(3*2*1)]/[(60*59*58*57*56*55)/(6*5*4*3*2*1)]
P(3) = 0.16762351125
Probability of hitting 4 creatures (x = 4):
P(4) = [kCx]*[(N-k)C(n-x)]/[NCn]
P(4) = [17C4]*[43C2]/[60C6]
P(4) = [(17*16*15*14)/(4*3*2*1)]*[(43*42)/(2*1)]/[(60*59*58*57*56*55)/(6*5*4*3*2*1)]
P(4) = 0.04292797239
Probability of hitting 5 creatures (x = 5):
P(5) = [kCx]*[(N-k)C(n-x)]/[NCn]
P(5) = [17C5]*[43C1]/[60C6]
P(5) = [(17*16*15*14*13)/(5*4*3*2*1)]*[(43)/(1)]/[(60*59*58*57*56*55)/(6*5*4*3*2*1)]
P(5) = 0.00531489182
Because the calculations get a little wonky with 0 values (we should really be testing with replacement), assume P(6) is not meaningful and that P(0) = 1 - [P(1) + ... P(5)]
Hitting at least 1 creature = P(1) + P(2) + P(3) + P(4) + P(5) = 0.8779792449
Hitting at least 2 creatures = P(2) + P(3) + P(4) + P(5) = 0.55111339796
EDIT: Even if you do a proper test of binomial probabilities, they still come out to be roughly the same (i.e., ~0.865 and ~0.543, respectively)
Aren't the odds even better since the max number of cards your deck will generally have in it on the play, assuming no dorks is 50?
Aren't the odds even better since the max number of cards your deck will generally have in it on the play, assuming no dorks is 50?
7 card opening hand plus draws turn 2,3 and 4?
That would depend on the number of creatures in your opening hand and from your turn 1-4 draws. With fetches, though, that would increase your odds if you cracked them in your early turns.
Aren't the odds even better since the max number of cards your deck will generally have in it on the play, assuming no dorks is 50?
7 card opening hand plus draws turn 2,3 and 4?
That would depend on the number of creatures in your opening hand and from your turn 1-4 draws. With fetches, though, that would increase your odds if you cracked them in your early turns.
ahh true, so the odds remain similar. Looks like a good card, might have to pick a set up before they fire up in price
It's a good card, but won't do any damage in standard because hitting two good creatures will be hard. I think abzan aggro is probably the best choice for this. Hitting a Brimaz and and Anafenza EOT seems like a very unfair way to win.
So, let's list the best 3 and 2 drops, I think the majority fall in Abzan, and the Abzan build I've been making just seems mean.
Master of the Feast 5/5 for 3... not great if your opponent gets a chance to respond on your turn after your upkeep, but sneaking him or two of him in, can be game over.
Anafenza, The Foremost
Brimaz, King of Oresko
Herald of Torment
Temur Sabertooh (not abzan, but one of the best three drops)
Heir of the Wilds
Fleecemane Lion
Rakshasha Deathdealer
New Anafenza--In fact, New Anfenza is combo, her out on turn 3 (figuring for Abzan Mana base), Collected on Turn 4, Bolster twice, and grow the army.
I'm assuming even if a morph creature has a mana cost less than 3 you can't put it on the battlefield face down.
Yup, that's what I've been going by since you directly cheat them in without paying alternate mana costs (and Morph's 3 is an alternate mana cost, as far as I can tell).
The card is intriguing, that's for sure. However, I'm not convinced it is as powerful as a lot of people claim it to be. It requires you to build your deck around this card, which for standard will probably result in an underpowered deck, imo. In older formats you can do far more degenerate plays than summoning two 3-cost creatures turn 4.
Add to that the anti-synergy with itself (more copies of Collected Company occupy deck space, plus the first Collected Company cast dilutes the deck of targets which may be important if you play shuffle effects like fetchlands), and I'm pretty sure this is never a 4-of. As with all new cards many people tend to think in best-case scenarios, whereas history has shown that consistency trumps random luck in the long term.
There are already a few decks in modern that could use this card without building around it: Elves, Stompy, Zoo (Which needed a Green Sun Zenith replacement anyway), and I'm sure there's at least two or three more.
Someone on reddit talked about using this in conjunction with Congregation at Dawn in Melira combo.
Hah, there you go. Also doesn't seem terrible to have one combo piece independent of the other in that style of deck. Congregate for 2 or 3 pieces, win in a couple turns; fire off a Collected Company, probably get 2 sick dudes anyways.
The card is intriguing, that's for sure. However, I'm not convinced it is as powerful as a lot of people claim it to be. It requires you to build your deck around this card, which for standard will probably result in an underpowered deck, imo. In older formats you can do far more degenerate plays than summoning two 3-cost creatures turn 4.
Add to that the anti-synergy with itself (more copies of Collected Company occupy deck space, plus the first Collected Company cast dilutes the deck of targets which may be important if you play shuffle effects like fetchlands), and I'm pretty sure this is never a 4-of. As with all new cards many people tend to think in best-case scenarios, whereas history has shown that consistency trumps random luck in the long term.
I'm testing Collected Company as a 4-of in Modern "Melira" "Pod" Reborn (now with no Meliras and no Pods because Birthing Pod is banned and Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit is so much better than Melira when I can't combo off and still enables the combo), and it virtually always hands me 2 creatures (and despite the fact that I play 7 mana dorks in it, I haven't gotten 2 dorks with it yet). Yes, this counts all the times when I cast 2 or more Collected Companys all game. Then again, that deck does currently run 28 creatures it can hit...
I'm also testing Collected Company as a 2-of in 17-hittable-creature Modern Goyf Twin. It's significantly more hit-and-miss there (it hits one creature too often, and it's whiffed twice so far there), but I get 2 creatures with it the most often (including the times when I make Snapcaster Mage flash it back), and when Goyf Twin's creatures are so powerful overall (and I can hit combo pieces with CC), I honestly believe CC is worth it.
For thinking in best-case scenarios, I stuck 2 Eternal Witness in "Pod" Reborn to experience the Magical Christmas land that is flipping E. Wit. with CC and then recurring CC, and yeah, that interaction happens often enough and wins games hard.
There are already a few decks in modern that could use this card without building around it: Elves, Stompy, Zoo (Which needed a Green Sun Zenith replacement anyway), and I'm sure there's at least two or three more.
Yeah, I have to agree with this guy. Some decks already don't have to build around CC, and you need surprisingly few creatures in your deck to make CC good.
From my testing, I think $5.65 is a bargain for Collected Company. I've found that it's strong in at least 2 Modern decks (slightly creature-heavier Goyf Twin and "Melira" "Pod" Reborn), and I think its price could easily hit $10.00 or more during its lifetime in Standard because of this.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
For modern purposes the potential hit chance takes new heights however.
Considering people run 8-12 fetches, and Knight of the Reliquary, thinning out your deck will be an easy feat.
Taking a 24 land base into account (relatively high), 24 creatures, a deck would be able to run 8 more non creature cards if you play 4 collected company's.
Both Noble Hierarch and KotR seems a logical choice to play.
Which leaves 16 creatures, 8 non creature cards, and 3 more colours to choose from.
Notables:
Blue gives you Vendilion Clique, Kira, Great Glass-Spinner, Geist of Saint Traft, Mana leak.
Black gives you Doran, the Siege Tower, Anafenza, the Foremost, Sin Collector and Thoughtseize (small consideration towards Siege Rhino).
Red gives you Countryside Crusher, Magus of the Moon, Fulminator Mage and Lightning Bolt.
So ya, card is going to be quite insane in Modern, just waiting for someone to find a nice home for it.
Edit
Small addition for fun facts, if we live in christmas land, we can swing with 3 8/8 knight of the reliquary's on turn 4.
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
I might be missing something, but how are you doing this? The cards from Collected Company go to the bottom of your library, not your graveyard.
In Modern: this may not slot into any one current deck, but it certainly could be a build around. Good Card filtration and instant Speed Voice and Goyf are just too good to say no to. I think people are going to sleep on this one. I could also see this being banned, frankly, as it seems much better than bloodbraid (you chose the perms you get, and they'll each likely be better than bloodbraid) or dig through time (filters only one less card, puts them directly into play, costs 4, and no more-- ever).
The new Anafenza too!
EDIT: Oh you just said that ...
Ah, I misread that as saying he would attack with 3 8/8 KotR on Turn 3 (not Turn 4) -- but yes, very unlikely. Also worth pointing out you wouldn't get the exalted trigger.
Aren't the odds even better since the max number of cards your deck will generally have in it on the play, assuming no dorks is 50?
7 card opening hand plus draws turn 2,3 and 4?
That would depend on the number of creatures in your opening hand and from your turn 1-4 draws. With fetches, though, that would increase your odds if you cracked them in your early turns.
ahh true, so the odds remain similar. Looks like a good card, might have to pick a set up before they fire up in price
Master of the Feast 5/5 for 3... not great if your opponent gets a chance to respond on your turn after your upkeep, but sneaking him or two of him in, can be game over.
Anafenza, The Foremost
Brimaz, King of Oresko
Herald of Torment
Temur Sabertooh (not abzan, but one of the best three drops)
Heir of the Wilds
Fleecemane Lion
Rakshasha Deathdealer
New Anafenza--In fact, New Anfenza is combo, her out on turn 3 (figuring for Abzan Mana base), Collected on Turn 4, Bolster twice, and grow the army.
Goblin Rabblemaster
Flamewake Phoenix
Boon Satyr
Playing this with Narset PW is kind of counter intuitive looking at Narset abilities
Yup, that's what I've been going by since you directly cheat them in without paying alternate mana costs (and Morph's 3 is an alternate mana cost, as far as I can tell).
Add to that the anti-synergy with itself (more copies of Collected Company occupy deck space, plus the first Collected Company cast dilutes the deck of targets which may be important if you play shuffle effects like fetchlands), and I'm pretty sure this is never a 4-of. As with all new cards many people tend to think in best-case scenarios, whereas history has shown that consistency trumps random luck in the long term.
GW Death and Taxes WG
Hah, there you go. Also doesn't seem terrible to have one combo piece independent of the other in that style of deck. Congregate for 2 or 3 pieces, win in a couple turns; fire off a Collected Company, probably get 2 sick dudes anyways.
I'm testing Collected Company as a 4-of in Modern "Melira" "Pod" Reborn (now with no Meliras and no Pods because Birthing Pod is banned and Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit is so much better than Melira when I can't combo off and still enables the combo), and it virtually always hands me 2 creatures (and despite the fact that I play 7 mana dorks in it, I haven't gotten 2 dorks with it yet). Yes, this counts all the times when I cast 2 or more Collected Companys all game. Then again, that deck does currently run 28 creatures it can hit...
I'm also testing Collected Company as a 2-of in 17-hittable-creature Modern Goyf Twin. It's significantly more hit-and-miss there (it hits one creature too often, and it's whiffed twice so far there), but I get 2 creatures with it the most often (including the times when I make Snapcaster Mage flash it back), and when Goyf Twin's creatures are so powerful overall (and I can hit combo pieces with CC), I honestly believe CC is worth it.
For thinking in best-case scenarios, I stuck 2 Eternal Witness in "Pod" Reborn to experience the Magical Christmas land that is flipping E. Wit. with CC and then recurring CC, and yeah, that interaction happens often enough and wins games hard.
Yeah, I have to agree with this guy. Some decks already don't have to build around CC, and you need surprisingly few creatures in your deck to make CC good.
What is going on here?
Standard:
GMono-Green CountersG
Modern:
URStormUR
XMyr OverflowX
BWBlack-White TokensBW
EDH:
WUGrand Arbiter Augustine's Spell DenialWU
WGRhys's TokensWG
RKrenko's CommandR