This is a worse sigarda, host of herons. I play a lot of casual multiplayer, and it'll be pretty lame for it to get doom bladed or whatever basically as soon as I end my turn.
It's decent in the right situations, but throwing removal at it during your own turn isn't impossible to do. As far as I can tell, it will basically be a 6 mana "I can do what I want for one turn before my guy dies" which might be enough, but I'm on the fence.
I like Dromoka so far, I'm planning on running her in my Sigarda EDH. Sigarda is pretty soft to counterspells, Though Dromoka is expensive, the fact that she is uncounterable, and makes your other spells uncounterable is huge. Being able to greensun for her is great as well. Currently I'm playing grandabolisher, who is great, but we'll see where testing goes.
I don't get how the fact that a creature can get killed immediately makes the creature worthless. You know what, there's removal for Fleecemane, and 80% of the time, he gets removed, and he's worthless. There's removal for Rabblemaster.
You might say, yeah, but their 2 and 3 drops. We're paying 6 here.
There's removal for Elspeth. Or countering Elspeth. Same thing, 6 Mana. But, when Elspeth Comes down, she can run away with the game.
A 5/7 flying lifelink that if it goes unanswered allows you to play the game on your terms on your turn is utterly game ending.
Now, if only there was a color to it that allowed for protection... oh wait, white. Throw in Feat of Resistance in the deck, or God's Willing, and have an extra mana open.
You know what, Mana dorks get killed, Ugin gets killed, everything from your enchantments, to your land (not in current standard, but in standard pasts) have been capable of being killed. That doesn't undervalue things. If the only thing that decides whether or not a card is good if it doesn't die and immediately alters the board state, then 99% of magic cards that are being played right now aren't good by that standard. The only good card would be Siege Rhino and Elspeth Sun's Champion and Garruk Apex Predator and Ugin, unless of course they get countered. Well then you need Pearl Lake Ancient, can't be countered, and can protect itself, of course thati'll put you back a few turns. Or maybe you want Surrak Dragonclaw, Can't be countered, makes all your creatures uncounterable, then figure out something to make him indestructible...
Sorry for the rant, but, it's the same thing with so many people.
I don't get how the fact that a creature can get killed immediately makes the creature worthless. You know what, there's removal for Fleecemane, and 80% of the time, he gets removed, and he's worthless. There's removal for Rabblemaster.
You might say, yeah, but their 2 and 3 drops. We're paying 6 here.
There's removal for Elspeth. Or countering Elspeth. Same thing, 6 Mana. But, when Elspeth Comes down, she can run away with the game.
A 5/7 flying lifelink that if it goes unanswered allows you to play the game on your terms on your turn is utterly game ending.
Now, if only there was a color to it that allowed for protection... oh wait, white. Throw in Feat of Resistance in the deck, or God's Willing, and have an extra mana open.
You know what, Mana dorks get killed, Ugin gets killed, everything from your enchantments, to your land (not in current standard, but in standard pasts) have been capable of being killed. That doesn't undervalue things. If the only thing that decides whether or not a card is good if it doesn't die and immediately alters the board state, then 99% of magic cards that are being played right now aren't good by that standard. The only good card would be Siege Rhino and Elspeth Sun's Champion and Garruk Apex Predator and Ugin, unless of course they get countered. Well then you need Pearl Lake Ancient, can't be countered, and can protect itself, of course thati'll put you back a few turns. Or maybe you want Surrak Dragonclaw, Can't be countered, makes all your creatures uncounterable, then figure out something to make him indestructible...
Sorry for the rant, but, it's the same thing with so many people.
Fleecemane is 2 mana, as you said, which means that when you play it there is the possibility that even if your opponent has a Hero's Downfall in hand they won't have the mana to stop your Fleecemane before it does something (e.g. you're on the play so they only just hit their 2nd land or they didn't manage to get 2B out on turn 3). Goblin Rabblemaster also only costs 3 and he actually does something immediately on the turn he comes down, i.e. creating a 1/1 haste token and, just like Dromoka, he'll take over the game completely if unanswered except, as both you and I have mentioned, he only costs 3 to Dromoka's 6. Elspeth is harder to kill than Dromoka because there is less removal that can directly kill her and, again, she'll actually do something on the turn she comes in by, at worst, making 3 tokens for you. Ugin is similar to Elspeth except that when he enters the battlefield he does even more than Elspeth by completely wiping everything else off the board.
But do you know what Dromoka does when he comes down? Nothing. He enters the battlefield, says "Kill me!" and then dies. Look at the rest of the format. Everything else either does something on the turn it enters the battkefield (Siege Rhino, all Planeswalkers, Goblin Rabblemaster, Flamewake Pheonix, etc.), is cheap enough for it not to matter if they don't do anything and die the next turn (all one and two drops, some 3 drops), or are hard enough to deal with that it doesn't matter if they don't have an impact the turn they come in, because more often than not, they will have an impact next turn at the least (pretty much anything played in UW Heroic with 1 white mana left open).
Dromoka is expensive, does nothing the turn it comes in, and wouldn't fit into a deck where you would want 4 Gods Willing just to protect it, as well as the mana required to do that being incredibly high.
I understand that my argument was basically "dies to removal", but you've got to look at why that is so bad in this specific case versus all the others, and I guess that might have been my mistake for not explaining it a whole lot.
No, I understand people's reasoning. I also know that I have kept Dromoka, The Eternal on board longer than Fleecemane. I've been playing the first Dromoka to 2nd Place finish at Game Day, 3rd Place finish at an IQ, and just so many first and 2nd place wins. I was also talking about Thoughtseize, as you could play Abzan with her, you could hold up Disdainful Stroke in BANT, or maybe the the Dromoka Command has an Indestructible Clause.
Either way, playing decks that every one plays is boring. Figuring out ways around and with the Removal of today, well, that's fun.
Perhaps a devotion or ramp strategy... maybe not. Frankly, I'm not an optimistic, I'm someone who plays Magic constantly, goes to tons of FNMs, plays a Standard Daily three or four times a week. I'm just saying that even against a Mardu Control deck, running their Host of Removal, usually around 10 to 14 pieces of removal counting board wipes, there are times when they just won't have an answer in their hand. They'll run out of cards.
The question isn't is it good. It clearly is. The question is, can you utilize it's good qualities to your benefits. Time will tell.
Definitely considering a Naya build around her. Ramp and Dragonlord's Servant, plus Dragon Tempest, and perhaps a few land destruction spells to limit the answers to her.
There has always been a lot of removal spells in recent Magic history.
That's already a given, hence the question is actually how much damage a creature can do in 2 or 3 turns before it is removed.
This isn't a bad card but Theros provides too many alternative for a 6-mana green drop. The thing with these dragonlords is that I don't think they were really meant to be T1 pieces, hence they were included as promos in PR packs.
The lifeline thing is awesome, and a 5/7 can block big flyers and not die, and get you five life in the process. I think either Dromoka or Ojutai are the best Dragonlords.
What about you guys?
Kept.
Do you guys have any good cards that could fit in a Atarka deck?
I made one already, but it was about average and my Atarka got killed instantly.
I was thinking of making a Temur so I could have blue counter spells.
Holy quadruple posting, Batman.
Atarka discussion should happen in the Atarka thread.
Sorry just truing to het to 30 posts so I wouldn't have to be "Just Getting Started". I've played Magic for 6 years now. Getting started is not the right term.
Holy quadruple posting, Batman.
Atarka discussion should happen in the Atarka thread.
Sorry just truing to het to 30 posts so I wouldn't have to be "Just Getting Started". I've played Magic for 6 years now. Getting started is not the right term.
The title under your username is more of a reflection on how much you've contributed to this forum, which may correlate to how used you are to this forum's features. I've seen very sophisticated posts from "Just Getting Started" individuals, as well as posts from "Just Getting Started" guys who clearly didn't read the forum rules, asked for help on how to display deck lists properly, and/or quoted individual posters in consecutive posts when they could have used the Multi-quote functionality instead.
(I don't know how many forum posts you need before you can delete your own posts on this forum, as I've seen many posts basically saying, "Delete this post but I can't do it and/or I don't know how". I've been able to delete my own hasty or accidentally duplicated posts for ages from the Tools menu on my posts.)
Holy quadruple posting, Batman.
Atarka discussion should happen in the Atarka thread.
Sorry just truing to het to 30 posts so I wouldn't have to be "Just Getting Started". I've played Magic for 6 years now. Getting started is not the right term.
The title under your username is more of a reflection on how much you've contributed to this forum, which may correlate to how used you are to this forum's features. I've seen very sophisticated posts from "Just Getting Started" individuals, as well as posts from "Just Getting Started" guys who clearly didn't read the forum rules, asked for help on how to display deck lists properly, and/or quoted individual posters in consecutive posts when they could have used the Multi-quote functionality instead.
(I don't know how many forum posts you need before you can delete your own posts on this forum, as I've seen many posts basically saying, "Delete this post but I can't do it and/or I don't know how". I've been able to delete my own hasty or accidentally duplicated posts for ages from the Tools menu on my posts.)
This is a worse sigarda, host of herons. I play a lot of casual multiplayer, and it'll be pretty lame for it to get doom bladed or whatever basically as soon as I end my turn.
I don't see the logic. These two do not do the same thing. Sigarda is protected from things like doomblade but when your opponent has counterspells she is the one you don't want to play and Dromoka is the one you do.
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Dragonlord Dromoka 4GW
Legendary Creature - Elder Dragon
Dragonlord Dromoka can't be countered.
Flying, lifelink
Your opponents can't cast spells during your turn.
5/7
The moment I saw it can't be countered, I fell in love. It protects your turn from instant speed spells. Very very good with Dragon Tempest.
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
Sliver Hivelord - Endless Winter
RIP Karn EDH
You might say, yeah, but their 2 and 3 drops. We're paying 6 here.
There's removal for Elspeth. Or countering Elspeth. Same thing, 6 Mana. But, when Elspeth Comes down, she can run away with the game.
A 5/7 flying lifelink that if it goes unanswered allows you to play the game on your terms on your turn is utterly game ending.
Now, if only there was a color to it that allowed for protection... oh wait, white. Throw in Feat of Resistance in the deck, or God's Willing, and have an extra mana open.
You know what, Mana dorks get killed, Ugin gets killed, everything from your enchantments, to your land (not in current standard, but in standard pasts) have been capable of being killed. That doesn't undervalue things. If the only thing that decides whether or not a card is good if it doesn't die and immediately alters the board state, then 99% of magic cards that are being played right now aren't good by that standard. The only good card would be Siege Rhino and Elspeth Sun's Champion and Garruk Apex Predator and Ugin, unless of course they get countered. Well then you need Pearl Lake Ancient, can't be countered, and can protect itself, of course thati'll put you back a few turns. Or maybe you want Surrak Dragonclaw, Can't be countered, makes all your creatures uncounterable, then figure out something to make him indestructible...
Sorry for the rant, but, it's the same thing with so many people.
Fleecemane is 2 mana, as you said, which means that when you play it there is the possibility that even if your opponent has a Hero's Downfall in hand they won't have the mana to stop your Fleecemane before it does something (e.g. you're on the play so they only just hit their 2nd land or they didn't manage to get 2B out on turn 3). Goblin Rabblemaster also only costs 3 and he actually does something immediately on the turn he comes down, i.e. creating a 1/1 haste token and, just like Dromoka, he'll take over the game completely if unanswered except, as both you and I have mentioned, he only costs 3 to Dromoka's 6. Elspeth is harder to kill than Dromoka because there is less removal that can directly kill her and, again, she'll actually do something on the turn she comes in by, at worst, making 3 tokens for you. Ugin is similar to Elspeth except that when he enters the battlefield he does even more than Elspeth by completely wiping everything else off the board.
But do you know what Dromoka does when he comes down? Nothing. He enters the battlefield, says "Kill me!" and then dies. Look at the rest of the format. Everything else either does something on the turn it enters the battkefield (Siege Rhino, all Planeswalkers, Goblin Rabblemaster, Flamewake Pheonix, etc.), is cheap enough for it not to matter if they don't do anything and die the next turn (all one and two drops, some 3 drops), or are hard enough to deal with that it doesn't matter if they don't have an impact the turn they come in, because more often than not, they will have an impact next turn at the least (pretty much anything played in UW Heroic with 1 white mana left open).
Dromoka is expensive, does nothing the turn it comes in, and wouldn't fit into a deck where you would want 4 Gods Willing just to protect it, as well as the mana required to do that being incredibly high.
I understand that my argument was basically "dies to removal", but you've got to look at why that is so bad in this specific case versus all the others, and I guess that might have been my mistake for not explaining it a whole lot.
Either way, playing decks that every one plays is boring. Figuring out ways around and with the Removal of today, well, that's fun.
Perhaps a devotion or ramp strategy... maybe not. Frankly, I'm not an optimistic, I'm someone who plays Magic constantly, goes to tons of FNMs, plays a Standard Daily three or four times a week. I'm just saying that even against a Mardu Control deck, running their Host of Removal, usually around 10 to 14 pieces of removal counting board wipes, there are times when they just won't have an answer in their hand. They'll run out of cards.
The question isn't is it good. It clearly is. The question is, can you utilize it's good qualities to your benefits. Time will tell.
EDH: GWCaptain Sisay
That's already a given, hence the question is actually how much damage a creature can do in 2 or 3 turns before it is removed.
This isn't a bad card but Theros provides too many alternative for a 6-mana green drop. The thing with these dragonlords is that I don't think they were really meant to be T1 pieces, hence they were included as promos in PR packs.
What about you guys?
Do you guys have any good cards that could fit in a Atarka deck?
I made one already, but it was about average and my Atarka got killed instantly.
I was thinking of making a Temur so I could have blue counter spells.
Atarka discussion should happen in the Atarka thread.
EDH: GWCaptain Sisay
Sorry just truing to het to 30 posts so I wouldn't have to be "Just Getting Started". I've played Magic for 6 years now. Getting started is not the right term.
The title under your username is more of a reflection on how much you've contributed to this forum, which may correlate to how used you are to this forum's features. I've seen very sophisticated posts from "Just Getting Started" individuals, as well as posts from "Just Getting Started" guys who clearly didn't read the forum rules, asked for help on how to display deck lists properly, and/or quoted individual posters in consecutive posts when they could have used the Multi-quote functionality instead.
(I don't know how many forum posts you need before you can delete your own posts on this forum, as I've seen many posts basically saying, "Delete this post but I can't do it and/or I don't know how". I've been able to delete my own hasty or accidentally duplicated posts for ages from the Tools menu on my posts.)
OK. Thanks.
I think she is one of best dragonlord song due to assault formation and just how powerful it can be.
I don't see the logic. These two do not do the same thing. Sigarda is protected from things like doomblade but when your opponent has counterspells she is the one you don't want to play and Dromoka is the one you do.