This card is pretty amazing. She can't protect herself, but will have 7 loyalty after she is played anyway. In the control mirror she'll be devastating, and the ultimate in Commander is totally crazy.
Get out of the standard mind set! This has great synergy with some of the most insane Legacy cards. Jace, Brainstorm, Top. Miracles just popped a ******* hardcore boner!
Again, everyone sees Planeswalker, everyone thinks control, and how's this going to fit in there. Let's think of other ways that she can work.
A Jeskai Tokens deck runs 22 to 23 lands, could definitely use her over Chandra, higher loyalty, bigger reward, and less land to draw, increases her +1 ability of putting something good in her hand. Turns Stoke the Flames into an 8 Point Swing.
Jeskai Aggro Decks as well run a total of 23 to 24 lands, lowering the curve, and making her more powerful. Playing her after a scry land as well gives added bonus, and maybe we'll get a little deck manipulation in DTK.
Now then, let's forget her ultimate, I never look at a Planeswalker's ultimate, because it just seems unnecessary, so let's forget that one for now.
Let's look at Rebound. Yes, the ideal would be to rebound treasure cruise. Massive card advantage. How bout something simpler, rebound Defiant Strike in U/W Heroic, give a creature a boost, draw a card, then, give a creature a boost, and draw another card again. How bout Magma Jet, not as popular with all the high toughness creatures out there, but, you want to talk about card advantage, and setting up her plus 1 ability. Magma Jet, one good card, one bad card, that's fine, one on the bottom, one on top. Magma Jet again at upkeep, Scry 2, yep set it up. Plus 1, draw an additional card.
Let's go further shall we. How bout an Esper Build... Downfall a creature or Planeswalker, with rebound, they cast to replace it, downfall again. Against U/W Heroic, they'd need two protection spells for your one Downfall.
Frankly, there's not a deck that runs U/W that shouldn't and most likely won't have her in it. This isn't hype. This is just deck building fact. I play creature decks. She's completely useless for me at the moment.
Now onto Modern Playability.
First off, low land count makes her a very big draw for the format.
Geist of St. Traft Control decks will eat up Narset and it might give them a better momentum. It has potential.
Legacy, I don't know, never played it, except for an infect deck once. Don't know the formats or the decks in Legacy.
Discussing the cards playability in standard is one thing, talking about modern and legacy especially is jumping the gun quite a bit..this is unplayable in legacy and even in modern you can't spend turn four casting a spell that does nothing right away
Get out of the standard mind set! This has great synergy with some of the most insane Legacy cards. Jace, Brainstorm, Top. Miracles just popped a ******* hardcore boner!
As a miracles player, I don't think she fits in the deck because Jace is better, but I do feel there is something to investigate with her thanks to top, brainstorm and some other spells. I don't know if she will see play in older formats, but she has a shot. People who say 100% one way or the other often are wrong.
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The nay sayers do not play Vintage or Legacy. This card is playable in those formats, particularly Vintage. Remember, in Vintage a good chunk of your mana base is made up of artifacts, so she hits with her +1 blind much of the time. She also slots right into existing Monastery Mentor decks. Her -2 ability is like having 3 Forks on tap for FREE when you use them. For four mana. When you're rebounding restricted cards, that's utterly absurd.
I have no opinion about standard. But this is an astounding Walker, easily as good as Lilly and Dack in eternal formats.
You listed Lily and Dack, great eternal PWs. But you forgot the one that is best in both Legacy and Vintage - Jace. Why waste time trying to setup the +1 when you can just Brainstorm?
I've been watching the Super Vintage League every week. Someone is ALWAYS trying to cast Jace, he's still that high of a bar setter.
As someone above said, her -2 (rebound) is basically a copy over two turns. Her +1 is conditional draw. She's okay, I don't know about eternal format warping.
Right, it's not as good as Jace. Thats why I compared it to Lily and Dack. It's definitely tier 1.5 as walkers go. However, it's not an either-or situation. You can run Jace AND Narset. They actually work together fantastically. Note that Dack in particular and Lily (mostly in Legacy) both see play even though Jace exists.
Taking the standard meta into account, it'll very likely see a lot of play. I think it'll make UWx control decks more viable as the missing repeatable card advantage engine and slots nicely into Jeskai Tokens, where it may just have a huge impact. $40 pre order reflects good demand with 0 supply. Don't buy in.
I love how people complain about the +1 saying that it "miss a lot", when domri rade decks had less creatures than nowdays creature less decks have in term of non creatures.
Narset will hit more than Domri Rade did, and Domri Rade hit rate was more than enough. Not to mention that the decks that want Narset already have ways to setup draws.
I also love how people complain about "if you cast it on turn 4...". There is any rule that says that she must always be cast on curve? She can be cast on curve if it's fit (there are several slow start decks that will not be able to kill her if you +1 her). Or can also be cast on turn 6 and either keep counter mana open or -2 her right away and dig through time TWICE.
She is a must answer threat, because she will burry the opponent under a pile of CA if unnanswered, and unless people are stupid enough to tap out on a full field to cast her, she will not die to damage (or at worst, gain you 7 life).
I also² love how people say "if you will do this, why not use [insert other walker here] instead", because you know, you can't use Narset if using any other walker and vice versa...
Some people complain that "all walkers are overhyped" but at the same time those people undervalue anything because "not Jace TMS". She is no Jace TMS, but she is very strong.
She's more comparable to what Jace, Architect of Thought did for control decks last season than what is typically being discussed here. She's different, certainly, and not is she your Elspeth, Sun's Champion--she's not your win condition. She's your CA engine with another build-around ability that can be great with burn, removal, wraths or more CA, exactly what a control deck is looking for. And in the control mirror, her ultimate ends the game--and in more dramatic and immediate fashion even than Jace, Memory Adept.
People always go straight to JTMS, and she is not JTMS. But what she is is a new, brilliant planeswalker design that will absolutely bring UW, UWR and Esper to new heights in standard. I think Modern and Legacy remain to be seen, but the potential is there. None of us know just HOW powerful she is yet, but denying that she is clearly very powerful indeed is a mistake.
At for 6 loyalty she isn't easy to remove and every time you -2 it's generating massive advantage. That's going to bump her price a bit.
And after looking at her +1 again it is a may trigger, you do not have to reveal. I can't think of too many overpowered uses for this but it does work with Manifest.
I'm sorry, but they haven't pushed a planeswalker this much since JtMS. She is the third best planeswalker ever printed, and possibly second. Lili is probably better, but I wouldn't say it was as pushed. In modern this is a turn 5 play, and a completely busted one at that. Letting a control deck serum visions twice, bolt twice, path to exile twice for one card is insane. And don't forget that those cards still hit the graveyard and can be snapcaster'd. U/W/x control in modern is all about card advantage. They run think twice half the time...
Also, while Jace is overall better in vintage, there will definitely be scenarios where you would rather have a narset than a jace in vintage. Rebounding time walk/recall is better than a brainstorm, and with a top in play her +1 is closer to brainstorm. Again, not saying she is Jace, just that situationally she can be better.
More than anything this card will shine in modern control an possibly even tempo/midrange. If you want to wait on her, let her standard impact bring down the price, but pick her up before she starts doing work in modern at the same time.
The biggest thing about this card is that it establishes a new precedent by which we can come to expect planeswalkers to mention mechanics that aren't evergreen.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I get that this is a shiny new card, but people need to stop making assumptions about this cards viability in modern. There is no deck in modern that will run this save for UWR control, which is barely played. Even in that deck you aren't cutting anything for a situational planes walker.
Some people complain that "all walkers are overhyped" but at the same time those people undervalue anything because "not Jace TMS". She is no Jace TMS, but she is very strong.
Well Im pretty sure there were people who called Jace, the Mind Sculptor or Liliana of the Veil bad when they were spoiled and yet these are the two best planeswalkers ever with both of them approaching the $100 mark.
It's always the same in spoiler season. A huge reason why I don't really like to participate in discussions about newly spoiled cards.
Excuse me, but could you stop right there? Narset is nowhere near the top three planeswalkers ever printed. Knight-Errant is still a Planeswalker, and Narset doesn't have her beat. Additionaly for as far standard goes there are two other blue 4CMC Walkers, both of which can protect themselves and one of which can replace herself upon entering the battlefield. Jace, the Living Guildpact and Kiora, the Crashing Wave. Narset isn't much better than these two.
From an eternal perspective, Narset is in the same league as Lily / Dack / Elspeth. Jace is just Jace, obviously. Her drawing ability is better than Jace and can be used more frequently than Kiora's. She's tougher than both of them. Her -2 is insane and, in a format with powerful blue spells, can win you the game if left molested.
I think this is a strong planeswalker in Standard, Modern, and maybe Legacy. Seems like a good card in Commander too, though I play that much less.
Is it better than other planeswalkers in the abstract? I don't care. If it is breakable, someone not me will figure out how to break it. That it seems to offer so much potential up front, however, is maybe a good sign.
Standard:
The +1 hits often enough to be card advantage.
While it has to survive one turn without support if you drop it turn 4, it will have 7 Loyalty, making it hard to kill with creatures. Still, dropping it turn 4 does not have the impact that dropping Jace, Architect of Thought had (it was either automatically CA or it was automatically damage mitigation or it protected itself reasonably.)
The -9 ultimate is not only excellent against control. It also completely blanks Hero's Downfall, Banishing Light, and every other form of dealing with a creature or permanent except with a creature. If this goes ultimate turn 7, they have no way to remove your Elspeth or Pearl Lake Ancient or whatever you land. If you don't win at that point, you were already dead.
-2 is great for sweepers in particular because it not only deals with new threats they might cast, but it also allows your board wipe to double up so if they have something granting indestructible, they better be able to kill you or have it again. I'm good with that. I also like rebounding draw.
In Modern, this is a house for UWR Control and contrary to the opinion earlier, UWR is much more competitive now, and this makes it more so. It is a great additional PW for that deck and makes all their burn and draw extra excellent.
In Legacy, Miracles benefits greatly from Rebound and it effectively becomes a wincon against most Legacy decks, but it is probably at most a 1-of. I don't know what other deck would use it that doesn't prefer Jace or that needs a 5th PW.
i cant see this not seeing standard play 4 mana for 6 loyalty and two card advantage abilities. compared to the PWs played now this seems above the curve
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A Jeskai Tokens deck runs 22 to 23 lands, could definitely use her over Chandra, higher loyalty, bigger reward, and less land to draw, increases her +1 ability of putting something good in her hand. Turns Stoke the Flames into an 8 Point Swing.
Jeskai Aggro Decks as well run a total of 23 to 24 lands, lowering the curve, and making her more powerful. Playing her after a scry land as well gives added bonus, and maybe we'll get a little deck manipulation in DTK.
Now then, let's forget her ultimate, I never look at a Planeswalker's ultimate, because it just seems unnecessary, so let's forget that one for now.
Let's look at Rebound. Yes, the ideal would be to rebound treasure cruise. Massive card advantage. How bout something simpler, rebound Defiant Strike in U/W Heroic, give a creature a boost, draw a card, then, give a creature a boost, and draw another card again. How bout Magma Jet, not as popular with all the high toughness creatures out there, but, you want to talk about card advantage, and setting up her plus 1 ability. Magma Jet, one good card, one bad card, that's fine, one on the bottom, one on top. Magma Jet again at upkeep, Scry 2, yep set it up. Plus 1, draw an additional card.
Let's go further shall we. How bout an Esper Build... Downfall a creature or Planeswalker, with rebound, they cast to replace it, downfall again. Against U/W Heroic, they'd need two protection spells for your one Downfall.
Frankly, there's not a deck that runs U/W that shouldn't and most likely won't have her in it. This isn't hype. This is just deck building fact. I play creature decks. She's completely useless for me at the moment.
Now onto Modern Playability.
First off, low land count makes her a very big draw for the format.
Geist of St. Traft Control decks will eat up Narset and it might give them a better momentum. It has potential.
Legacy, I don't know, never played it, except for an infect deck once. Don't know the formats or the decks in Legacy.
As a miracles player, I don't think she fits in the deck because Jace is better, but I do feel there is something to investigate with her thanks to top, brainstorm and some other spells. I don't know if she will see play in older formats, but she has a shot. People who say 100% one way or the other often are wrong.
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
Courser + Narset. This is a thing.
Right, it's not as good as Jace. Thats why I compared it to Lily and Dack. It's definitely tier 1.5 as walkers go. However, it's not an either-or situation. You can run Jace AND Narset. They actually work together fantastically. Note that Dack in particular and Lily (mostly in Legacy) both see play even though Jace exists.
UBRGrixis Kiki Control
BGUSultai Shadow
GWRBushwhacker Zoo
EDH:
BGU Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose
GWU Roon of the Hidden Realm
Not sure if anyone mentioned it yet, but there you go. Might make the Doubling Season + Jace AoT deck better.
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Narset will hit more than Domri Rade did, and Domri Rade hit rate was more than enough. Not to mention that the decks that want Narset already have ways to setup draws.
I also love how people complain about "if you cast it on turn 4...". There is any rule that says that she must always be cast on curve? She can be cast on curve if it's fit (there are several slow start decks that will not be able to kill her if you +1 her). Or can also be cast on turn 6 and either keep counter mana open or -2 her right away and dig through time TWICE.
She is a must answer threat, because she will burry the opponent under a pile of CA if unnanswered, and unless people are stupid enough to tap out on a full field to cast her, she will not die to damage (or at worst, gain you 7 life).
I also² love how people say "if you will do this, why not use [insert other walker here] instead", because you know, you can't use Narset if using any other walker and vice versa...
Some people complain that "all walkers are overhyped" but at the same time those people undervalue anything because "not Jace TMS". She is no Jace TMS, but she is very strong.
People always go straight to JTMS, and she is not JTMS. But what she is is a new, brilliant planeswalker design that will absolutely bring UW, UWR and Esper to new heights in standard. I think Modern and Legacy remain to be seen, but the potential is there. None of us know just HOW powerful she is yet, but denying that she is clearly very powerful indeed is a mistake.
At for 6 loyalty she isn't easy to remove and every time you -2 it's generating massive advantage. That's going to bump her price a bit.
And after looking at her +1 again it is a may trigger, you do not have to reveal. I can't think of too many overpowered uses for this but it does work with Manifest.
Rebound See the Unwritten
Also, while Jace is overall better in vintage, there will definitely be scenarios where you would rather have a narset than a jace in vintage. Rebounding time walk/recall is better than a brainstorm, and with a top in play her +1 is closer to brainstorm. Again, not saying she is Jace, just that situationally she can be better.
More than anything this card will shine in modern control an possibly even tempo/midrange. If you want to wait on her, let her standard impact bring down the price, but pick her up before she starts doing work in modern at the same time.
That's huge for the future of planeswalker cards.
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Well Im pretty sure there were people who called Jace, the Mind Sculptor or Liliana of the Veil bad when they were spoiled and yet these are the two best planeswalkers ever with both of them approaching the $100 mark.
It's always the same in spoiler season. A huge reason why I don't really like to participate in discussions about newly spoiled cards.
From an eternal perspective, Narset is in the same league as Lily / Dack / Elspeth. Jace is just Jace, obviously. Her drawing ability is better than Jace and can be used more frequently than Kiora's. She's tougher than both of them. Her -2 is insane and, in a format with powerful blue spells, can win you the game if left molested.
Believe it, this walker is very good.
Is it better than other planeswalkers in the abstract? I don't care. If it is breakable, someone not me will figure out how to break it. That it seems to offer so much potential up front, however, is maybe a good sign.
Standard:
The +1 hits often enough to be card advantage.
While it has to survive one turn without support if you drop it turn 4, it will have 7 Loyalty, making it hard to kill with creatures. Still, dropping it turn 4 does not have the impact that dropping Jace, Architect of Thought had (it was either automatically CA or it was automatically damage mitigation or it protected itself reasonably.)
The -9 ultimate is not only excellent against control. It also completely blanks Hero's Downfall, Banishing Light, and every other form of dealing with a creature or permanent except with a creature. If this goes ultimate turn 7, they have no way to remove your Elspeth or Pearl Lake Ancient or whatever you land. If you don't win at that point, you were already dead.
-2 is great for sweepers in particular because it not only deals with new threats they might cast, but it also allows your board wipe to double up so if they have something granting indestructible, they better be able to kill you or have it again. I'm good with that. I also like rebounding draw.
In Modern, this is a house for UWR Control and contrary to the opinion earlier, UWR is much more competitive now, and this makes it more so. It is a great additional PW for that deck and makes all their burn and draw extra excellent.
In Legacy, Miracles benefits greatly from Rebound and it effectively becomes a wincon against most Legacy decks, but it is probably at most a 1-of. I don't know what other deck would use it that doesn't prefer Jace or that needs a 5th PW.
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Really hard to evaluate, honestly.
My main W/U deck is a blink deck though so it doesn't really matter much.
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