So I am pretty new to Magic, and that might explain this... well this entire thread. I was somewhat surprised by FRF's Grim Contest . Mostly because the first lesson of Magic seems to be that Power > Toughness in terms of card value. It is rare to see Walls and the like being used in any format outside of drafting. But I thought about it, and researched it a bit and there does seem to be a way to build competitive decks around High Toughness creatures.
This is possible mostly because high toughness creatures can have a low CMC cost, looking at Disowned Ancestor and Wall of Frost especially. But if you have some way to turn high toughness into something greater than the ability to block, especially a conversion from toughness into power, then you begin having the makings of a deck, and a strategy. Here is a starting point for such a deck:
Now this deck turns dying walls into life gain via the Sultai Flayer and Kheru Bloodsucker,
but also allows full exploitation of Kin-Tree Invocation ,
meaning when you get a Wall of Frost into play, you can put a 7/7 Spirit Warrior Token into play for TWO MANA!
Further, with the Scourge of Skola Veil, you can get a 9/9 trampler into play rather quickly, maybe even turn four.
At mid-game, killing your high toughness creatures gives you life, and some combat options arise from Whip of Erebos + Grim Contest.
But beautiful things begin happening with Prophet of Kruphix , especially since you can start swinging in with Scourge or empowering it without losing a potent blocker.
However the hail mary pass of this deck is Phenax, God of Deception . Imagine, a deck where most of your creatures have a toughness >4. Every opponent's end step will be marred by catastrophic milling. In fantasy christmas land... a Prophet & Phenax making unholy milling love all over the battlefield.
This is just a starting point, but what do you guys think? Could toughness-based decks be a proper sub-theme?
Ok, so after some thorough Deck-Testing, this is as far as I got in this train of thought.
I plan to run this deck at the next FNM.
Basically, in this deck, the goal is to quickly bring in as many low-CMC high toughness creatures into play as possible and converting them ASAP
into something greater. If you aren't playing a creature until turn three, you're going to have a bad time...
Here are the best combinations in this deck.
T1 Swamp, Disowned Ancestor - arguably the best wall in standard, 4 toughness is almost impossible to overcome until mid-game. Stall aggro and mid-range decks.
T2 Forest, Kin-Tree Invocation - a 4/4 creature out on turn two for two mana? I dare you to find another way to do this in standard. Quickly start swinging for kills.
Or
T1, Opulent Palace - this strategy lets you sit on a tap land, while still economizing your turns.
T2, Dragon's Eye Savants -
Originally I ran the Guardians of Meletis, but this card is simply better.
T3, Scourge of Skola Vale - Pass turn. If your opponent tries to kill Skola by damage, sack Savants and save it. If not, block with Savants this combat round and sacrifice it into Skola on your opponent's end-step. Either way, you have an 8/8 with trample ready to fight at turn 4's start. Just by the normal meta, you will at the very least be able to trample in with it on turn 4 for 8.
Now what if you don't get a Skola? Just Kin-Tree Invocation it instead, a 6/6 on turn 3 is not that bad. But what if you haven't drawn a Skola or a Kin-Tree? Then just keep laying down bigger and better walls until you manage to find one. The deck has enough life gain via Kheru Bloodsucker and Sultai Flayer to survive this rough patch.
As a second win condition, I also run [card] Phenax, God of Deception [card], who can easily force my opponent to mill out by tapping all my defenders and walls at their end-step. In a deck where the average toughness is 6 or higher, that's nothing to laugh at, and it helps out quite a bit if my opponent has found some way to stop me from swinging in.
I might switch out the Whip for Nylea's Bow or
the Bident of Thassa . I think the ability to kill flyers is very important, as they currently are the deck's main weakness, but
the bident's ability to cause my opponents to face-smash against my walls is equally thrilling.
If i had a Hornet Queen I would replace a Prophet with that card
T1 Swamp, Disowned Ancestor - arguably the best wall in standard, 4 toughness is almost impossible to overcome until mid-game. Stall aggro and mid-range decks.
T2 Forest, Kin-Tree Invocation - a 4/4 creature out on turn two for two mana? I dare you to find another way to do this in standard. Quickly start swinging for kills.
Turn 2 Tasigur is possible . But require more set-up.
T1, Opulent Palace - this strategy lets you sit on a tap land, while still economizing your turns.
T2, Dragon's Eye Savants -
Originally I ran the Guardians of Meletis, but this card is simply better.
T3, Scourge of Skola Vale - Pass turn. If your opponent tries to kill Skola by damage, sack Savants and save it. If not, block with Savants this combat round and sacrifice it into Skola on your opponent's end-step. Either way, you have an 8/8 with trample ready to fight at turn 4's start. Just by the normal meta, you will at the very least be able to trample in with it on turn 4 for 8.
:S You can't tap Scourge of Skola the turn he enter, so your turn 4 Swing for 8/8 trample doesn't work. Turn 5 tough....
T1 Swamp, Disowned Ancestor - arguably the best wall in standard, 4 toughness is almost impossible to overcome until mid-game. Stall aggro and mid-range decks.
T2 Forest, Kin-Tree Invocation - a 4/4 creature out on turn two for two mana? I dare you to find another way to do this in standard. Quickly start swinging for kills.
Turn 2 Tasigur is possible . But require more set-up.
T1, Opulent Palace - this strategy lets you sit on a tap land, while still economizing your turns.
T2, Dragon's Eye Savants -
Originally I ran the Guardians of Meletis, but this card is simply better.
T3, Scourge of Skola Vale - Pass turn. If your opponent tries to kill Skola by damage, sack Savants and save it. If not, block with Savants this combat round and sacrifice it into Skola on your opponent's end-step. Either way, you have an 8/8 with trample ready to fight at turn 4's start. Just by the normal meta, you will at the very least be able to trample in with it on turn 4 for 8.
:S You can't tap Scourge of Skola the turn he enter, so your turn 4 Swing for 8/8 trample doesn't work. Turn 5 tough....
Uhhhh... Dude.... If you read the whole "Pass Turn" part of the plan, you would realize I would tap Skola on my opponents next turn, meaning he would be powered for my next turn. Summoning sickness only lasts until the next end step.
Hmmm.... I'm a little torn by the Hero's Downfall suggestion.. It might require a revamping of my mana-base that i'm not too certain I like.
Definitely for sideboard... I might have problems killing planeswalker based decks otherwise...
Uhhhh... Dude.... If you read the whole "Pass Turn" part of the plan, you would realize I would tap Skola on my opponents next turn, meaning he would be powered for my next turn. Summoning sickness only lasts until the next end step.
No. Summoning sickness lasts until the start of your turn.
- You need a creature out on the field to use it.
- It's not guaranteed to kill something.
- It has a chance of killing your own creature.
- It doesn't hit planeswalkers like Downfall can.
In short, DO NO PLAY THE CARD OVER DOWNFALL.
Uhhhh... Dude.... If you read the whole "Pass Turn" part of the plan, you would realize I would tap Skola on my opponents next turn, meaning he would be powered for my next turn. Summoning sickness only lasts until the next end step.
That's not how summoning sickness works. Summoning sickness lasts until YOUR next turn.
Summoning sickness lasts until YOUR next beginning of turn, not the next end step. Big difference. You can't tap him on your opponent's turn after you play him on your turn. Also, Hero's Downfall is a must, as are reachers/flyers. You also don't have protection from abilities (nondamage). Try some Sylvan Caryatids for better mana fixing, and its a great wall. Courser of Kruphix also helps make a nice toughness creature and its utility is a must if you're running green. Hornet Nest might find a use in this deck. Frontier Siege would work well for you as well. Silumgar could be your beefy flyer too. Thassa, and Monastery Siege can provide some utility early as well.
Summoning sickness lasts until your next turn, not the next end step. Also, if you're aiming for a competitive toughness deck, you should really be running 4 Courser of Kruphix and 4 Sylvan Caryatid, as they're the best high-toughness creatures in Standard, and Caryatid has more toughness than Whisperer of the Wilds. One way to build around toughness would be Abzan Beastmaster as a draw engine, with Courser and Caryatid providing toughness and Hero's Downfall and Murderous Cut keeping your opponent's high-toughness creatures in check. With Courser and Caryatid holding down the ground, you can probably run less Blue walls, which gives you better mana for Hero's Downfall and Whip of Erebos. From there you can run Disowned Ancestor and Kin-Tree Invocation, although that might be better off in the sideboard for aggressive decks, since they don't do much against Whip decks or Abzan midrange decks. Sultai Flayer is usually more expensive than Tasigur, and Tasigur has 5 toughness. The life gain helps, but Whip does that already, and Tasigur helps you draw extra cards. You should also consider adding in Doomwake Giant, which will basically always be the toughest creature on the battlefield, and also triggers off Whip and Courser. You can round it out with a few Eidolon of Blossoms as an extra draw engine. Someplace I might start is:
This deck can drop a 5-toughness Tasigur on turn 3 very often thanks to Satyr Wayfinder, or turn 2 Caryatid, turn 3 Abzan Beastmaster, turn 4 draw twice and drop a 6-toughness Doomwake Giant. Out of the sideboard, you have the Ancestor/Invocation combo for aggro decks, Thoughtseize and Read the Bones for control, and Nissa for midrange battles. This can definitely be tweaked, as others have mentioned Frontier Siege could be very powerful, and you could run some more expensive cards like Hornet Queen or Ugin to supplement it, but I think this is a good place to start!
You could, although I advise against it, include Temur Ascendancy because the Caryatid can make red mana and you already have access to its other 2 colors in order to give your Scourge of Skola Vale haste. Also Genesis Hydra can help this deck idea.
Summoning sickness lasts until your next turn, not the next end step. Also, if you're aiming for a competitive toughness deck, you should really be running 4 Courser of Kruphix and 4 Sylvan Caryatid, as they're the best high-toughness creatures in Standard, and Caryatid has more toughness than Whisperer of the Wilds. One way to build around toughness would be Abzan Beastmaster as a draw engine, with Courser and Caryatid providing toughness and Hero's Downfall and Murderous Cut keeping your opponent's high-toughness creatures in check. With Courser and Caryatid holding down the ground, you can probably run less Blue walls, which gives you better mana for Hero's Downfall and Whip of Erebos. From there you can run Disowned Ancestor and Kin-Tree Invocation, although that might be better off in the sideboard for aggressive decks, since they don't do much against Whip decks or Abzan midrange decks. Sultai Flayer is usually more expensive than Tasigur, and Tasigur has 5 toughness. The life gain helps, but Whip does that already, and Tasigur helps you draw extra cards. You should also consider adding in Doomwake Giant, which will basically always be the toughest creature on the battlefield, and also triggers off Whip and Courser. You can round it out with a few Eidolon of Blossoms as an extra draw engine. Someplace I might start is:
This deck can drop a 5-toughness Tasigur on turn 3 very often thanks to Satyr Wayfinder, or turn 2 Caryatid, turn 3 Abzan Beastmaster, turn 4 draw twice and drop a 6-toughness Doomwake Giant. Out of the sideboard, you have the Ancestor/Invocation combo for aggro decks, Thoughtseize and Read the Bones for control, and Nissa for midrange battles. This can definitely be tweaked, as others have mentioned Frontier Siege could be very powerful, and you could run some more expensive cards like Hornet Queen or Ugin to supplement it, but I think this is a good place to start!
Besjbo, this Deck looks good but the idea behind the theme wasn't necessarily - "lets play big-butt creatures" but "lets play big-butt creatures" and transmute them into greater card advantage. I.e. use Skola or kin-tree invocation to get horribly big creatures with low mana costs. Your deck doesn't really do this. But there are aspects of it that I do like.
I really like the idea of dropping blue as a color, and I love that Courser of Kruphix and Doomwake Giant are in here. It makes me think about using Courser and caryatid to gain more mana, playing high-toughness blacks like Zombie Mastodon in place of my blue walls. I like what you did with that and where this is going. It makes me think that Nylea or Pharika might fit into this deck too.
But I would still like a win condition based off toughness conversion. I want to turn my Skola into an 11/11 and then cast Kin-Tree Invocation on it to frustrate my opponents. That's a solid deck you've made there, and I'm sure aggro would like to murder you.
I took the above toughness deck to FNM this past weekend, and went 3/2. I made a few adjustments
-I switched out grim contest with hero's downfall because, frankly the card is just better.
-I ran Drown in Sorrow and Sagu Mauler in the side board.
First Match - Sultai Toughness v. White Weenies
He had Aven Surveyor which was the only thing that really posed a threat to me. At turn three he had three dudes and I had Disowned Ancestor Dragon Eye Savants and Scourge of Skola Vale out
Scourge killed Dragon Eye on his turn 4 to become an 8/8, and ate a 1/5 Ancestor on turn 5 to become a 13/13 and I cast Kin Tree Invocation on it turn 5 as well. Other than the one swipe he had at me during turn 5 he never drew an answer.
Next round I traded my Downfalls for Drown in Sorrow and 2 Dragon Eye for two Monastery Flock. Somehow I ended up with a 24/24 Skola by turn 5, he was mana-screwed and conceded when I cast Kin-Tree invocation on it.
Next Match - Mardu Midrange Aggro, my favor. Butcher of the Horde was a major threat here, but luckily I drew enough Downfalls to stop him game one, and managed to switch in enough Monastery Flocks to survive and win game two where he was destroyed, hilariously, by a Meandering Towershell he had forgotten about
Next Match - Green Black Midrange - Rakshasa Deathdealers. 2/1 in my favor. Very long games as I had to exhaust his downfalls and he had to exhaust mine. Very close match. I learned to respect the deathdealer.
Next Match - Blue, Black, White Control. Must I write more? I wasn't playing offensive aggro so my opponent constantly pulled off the ramp he needed to cancel everything I had. I did manage to switch in Sagu Maulers but it just wasn't enough when I am pretty sure he ran 10 board-wipes in his deck. He Ashioked my Prophet of Kruphix denied all my attempts to kill it and simply ended my deck completely.
I learned I needed Mistcutter Hydra in my sideboard, and maybe even a few counterspells.
I learned Phenax is a worthless, worthless, worthless card in my deck.
Next Match - Blue White Heroism - I wrecked him game one, as Sultai toughness tends to do against aggro decks. Even with his 5/5 and 7/7 heroic creatures, I was getting larger things faster. Round two he sideboarded Aquatic Form and managed to aggro through my big butts. I was not expecting this strategy. He really beat the crap out of me.
Round three I was mana-screwed until turn 5.
I do enjoy this deck, I think I might look into cutting a color, and actually bringing in high value cards. Theres very few decks that I keep around, but just the fact that this works, and when it works I have 11/11 guys and life upwards of 25 makes it a rather fun deck. I hope the next expansion gives me something to work with.
Get yo' head out of the standard gutter, think Modern!!! With Doran, the Siege Tower & Yotian Soldier, you can multiple sources for early game beat sticks. Standard has too little of a card pool for fun, especially when there will be sooo much rotation going on next year.
Next Match - Blue White Heroism - I wrecked him game one, as Sultai toughness tends to do against aggro decks. Even with his 5/5 and 7/7 heroic creatures, I was getting larger things faster. Round two he sideboarded Aquatic Form and managed to aggro through my big butts. I was not expecting this strategy. He really beat the crap out of me.
Round three I was mana-screwed until turn 5.
Hoonestly, not expecting Aqueous Form out of heroic was a serious mistake. You may want either Merciless Executioner or Back to Nature in your sideboard if that deck is unusually problematic for you.
Again, assuming an opponent is goldfishing until turn three [not actually too unlikely, if I went first or if the opponent has tap-lands]
T1 - Swamp, Disowned Ancestor
T2 - Island, Dragon-Eye Savants
T3 - Assault Formation, SWING FOR 10 DAMAGE
That's such an improvement
and for the rest of the game, I can play 4/4s for one or 6/6 for 2!!!
Assault formation gives this deck a chance to work, so you are probably best to run green as one of the colors in the deck. Very few decks are running spells capable of enchantment removal main deck. If you draw the spell and play it turn 2... the opponent is going to have a headache.
My problem is how do you plan on getting some offense going on without Assault Formation?
I hope this works in standard, but as soon as I saw assault formation I preordered a playset and dusted off Doran for modern. Having nearly your whole deck survive bolts and beat for more than what their converted mana costs should, could finally make a toughness matters deck work. I tried it before with only Doran and it was just too vulnerable. You could kill Doran and effectively Fog an attack. Adding this redundancy gives it a shot. It may not be top tier, but this reminds me of how Shrieking Affliction helped make 8-rack a deck.
That seems like a safe base to make sure toughness matters. You can decide how the rest of the deck goes from there. All in toughness-aggro can work but I would probably go with more control elements and let the powerful toughness based beaters act as good defensive plays that then double as undercosted finishers.
Assault formation gives this deck a chance to work, so you are probably best to run green as one of the colors in the deck. Very few decks are running spells capable of enchantment removal main deck. If you draw the spell and play it turn 2... the opponent is going to have a headache.
My problem is how do you plan on getting some offense going on without Assault Formation?
The Deck already had the capacity to bring out extremely tough creatures via Kin-Tree Invocation and Scourge of Skola Vale, using Abzan Beastmaster for extra card draw
as well as Sultai Flayer and Kheru Bloodsucker as utility creatures
which really discouraged people from destroying my high-toughness creatures
Occassionally, the Scourge becomes extremely massive and as a trampler, that is somewhat problematic to deal with.
And depending on my plays, Kin Tree Invocation can be a 4/4 on turn 2, a 6/6 on turn 3, or VERY Large if it targets Scourge of Skola Vale
This is possible mostly because high toughness creatures can have a low CMC cost, looking at Disowned Ancestor and
Wall of Frost especially. But if you have some way to turn high toughness into something greater than the ability to block, especially a conversion from toughness into power, then you begin having the makings of a deck, and a strategy. Here is a starting point for such a deck:
4 Wall of Frost
4 Disowned Ancestor
3 Meandering Towershell
2 Prophet of Kruphix
2 Sultai Flayer
3 Scourge of Skola Vale
2 Kheru Bloodsucker
4 Whisperer of the Wilds
4 Kin-Tree Invocation
4 Grim Contest
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Phenax, God of Deception
1 Fruit of the First Tree
Now this deck turns dying walls into life gain via the Sultai Flayer and Kheru Bloodsucker,
but also allows full exploitation of Kin-Tree Invocation ,
meaning when you get a Wall of Frost into play, you can put a 7/7 Spirit Warrior Token into play for TWO MANA!
Further, with the Scourge of Skola Veil, you can get a 9/9 trampler into play rather quickly, maybe even turn four.
At mid-game, killing your high toughness creatures gives you life, and some combat options arise from Whip of Erebos +
Grim Contest.
But beautiful things begin happening with Prophet of Kruphix , especially since you can start swinging in with Scourge or empowering it without losing a potent blocker.
However the hail mary pass of this deck is Phenax, God of Deception . Imagine, a deck where most of your creatures have a toughness >4. Every opponent's end step will be marred by catastrophic milling. In fantasy christmas land... a Prophet & Phenax making unholy milling love all over the battlefield.
This is just a starting point, but what do you guys think? Could toughness-based decks be a proper sub-theme?
I plan to run this deck at the next FNM.
Basically, in this deck, the goal is to quickly bring in as many low-CMC high toughness creatures into play as possible and converting them ASAP
into something greater. If you aren't playing a creature until turn three, you're going to have a bad time...
Here are the best combinations in this deck.
T1 Swamp, Disowned Ancestor - arguably the best wall in standard, 4 toughness is almost impossible to overcome until mid-game. Stall aggro and mid-range decks.
T2 Forest, Kin-Tree Invocation - a 4/4 creature out on turn two for two mana? I dare you to find another way to do this in standard. Quickly start swinging for kills.
Or
T1, Opulent Palace - this strategy lets you sit on a tap land, while still economizing your turns.
T2, Dragon's Eye Savants -
Originally I ran the Guardians of Meletis, but this card is simply better.
T3, Scourge of Skola Vale - Pass turn. If your opponent tries to kill Skola by damage, sack Savants and save it. If not, block with Savants this combat round and sacrifice it into Skola on your opponent's end-step. Either way, you have an 8/8 with trample ready to fight at turn 4's start. Just by the normal meta, you will at the very least be able to trample in with it on turn 4 for 8.
Now what if you don't get a Skola? Just Kin-Tree Invocation it instead, a 6/6 on turn 3 is not that bad. But what if you haven't drawn a Skola or a Kin-Tree? Then just keep laying down bigger and better walls until you manage to find one. The deck has enough life gain via Kheru Bloodsucker and
Sultai Flayer to survive this rough patch.
With Abzan Beastmaster, and
Fruit of the First Tree your creature's high toughness gets turned into extra card draw.
And the Whip of Erebos can be used to make
Meandering Towershell effectively immortal (whip it, attack with it and it returns from exile by its own effect), thereby giving your Skola's and Kin-Tree's a 5/9 to chew on.
As a second win condition, I also run [card] Phenax, God of Deception [card], who can easily force my opponent to mill out by tapping all my defenders and walls at their end-step. In a deck where the average toughness is 6 or higher, that's nothing to laugh at, and it helps out quite a bit if my opponent has found some way to stop me from swinging in.
I also run Grim Contest for removal
4 Dragon's Eye Savants
2 Wall of Frost
3 Meandering Towershell
2 Sultai Flayer
2 Kheru Bloodsucker
2 Abzan Beastmaster
4 Scourge of Skola Vale
1 Phenax, God of Deception
2 Prophet of Kruphix
4 Kin-Tree Invocation
3 Grim Contest
1 Fruit of the First Tree
1 Death Frenzy
1 Whip of Erebos
Manabase
4 Opulent Palace
2 Yavimaya Coast
1 Polluted Delta
7 Forests
4 Islands
6 Swamps
I might switch out the Whip for Nylea's Bow or
the Bident of Thassa . I think the ability to kill flyers is very important, as they currently are the deck's main weakness, but
the bident's ability to cause my opponents to face-smash against my walls is equally thrilling.
If i had a Hornet Queen I would replace a Prophet with that card
Still working on a Sideboard..
You're also playing with subpar cards that are outclassed in every way by another. Why Grim Contest over Hero's Downfall? Why Death Frenzy over Bile Blight or Drown in Sorrow?
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
Turn 2 Tasigur is possible . But require more set-up.
:S You can't tap Scourge of Skola the turn he enter, so your turn 4 Swing for 8/8 trample doesn't work. Turn 5 tough....
Uhhhh... Dude.... If you read the whole "Pass Turn" part of the plan, you would realize I would tap Skola on my opponents next turn, meaning he would be powered for my next turn. Summoning sickness only lasts until the next end step.
Also - Drown in Sorrow is totally better! Thanks!
Definitely for sideboard... I might have problems killing planeswalker based decks otherwise...
- You need a creature out on the field to use it.
- It's not guaranteed to kill something.
- It has a chance of killing your own creature.
- It doesn't hit planeswalkers like Downfall can.
In short, DO NO PLAY THE CARD OVER DOWNFALL.
That's not how summoning sickness works. Summoning sickness lasts until YOUR next turn.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
4 Abzan Beastmaster
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Satyr Wayfinder
3 Eidolon of Blossoms
3 Doomwake Giant
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Elvish Mystic
Spells
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Murderous Cut
3 Whip of Erebos
2 Thoughtseize
5 Forest
3 Swamp
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Temple of Malady
4 Windswept Heath
2 Jungle Hollow
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Disowned Ancestor
4 Kin-Tree Invocation
2 Read the Bones
2 Thoughtseize
3 Nissa, Worldwaker
This deck can drop a 5-toughness Tasigur on turn 3 very often thanks to Satyr Wayfinder, or turn 2 Caryatid, turn 3 Abzan Beastmaster, turn 4 draw twice and drop a 6-toughness Doomwake Giant. Out of the sideboard, you have the Ancestor/Invocation combo for aggro decks, Thoughtseize and Read the Bones for control, and Nissa for midrange battles. This can definitely be tweaked, as others have mentioned Frontier Siege could be very powerful, and you could run some more expensive cards like Hornet Queen or Ugin to supplement it, but I think this is a good place to start!
Wow, I can't believe I didn't know that about summoning sickness...
There's no way I could activate Skola before my Untap step then??? Oh dang...
Besjbo, this Deck looks good but the idea behind the theme wasn't necessarily - "lets play big-butt creatures" but "lets play big-butt creatures" and transmute them into greater card advantage. I.e. use Skola or kin-tree invocation to get horribly big creatures with low mana costs. Your deck doesn't really do this. But there are aspects of it that I do like.
I really like the idea of dropping blue as a color, and I love that Courser of Kruphix and Doomwake Giant are in here. It makes me think about using Courser and caryatid to gain more mana, playing high-toughness blacks like Zombie Mastodon in place of my blue walls. I like what you did with that and where this is going. It makes me think that Nylea or Pharika might fit into this deck too.
But I would still like a win condition based off toughness conversion. I want to turn my Skola into an 11/11 and then cast Kin-Tree Invocation on it to frustrate my opponents. That's a solid deck you've made there, and I'm sure aggro would like to murder you.
-I switched out grim contest with hero's downfall because, frankly the card is just better.
-I ran Drown in Sorrow and Sagu Mauler in the side board.
First Match - Sultai Toughness v. White Weenies
He had Aven Surveyor which was the only thing that really posed a threat to me. At turn three he had three dudes and I had
Disowned Ancestor
Dragon Eye Savants and
Scourge of Skola Vale out
Scourge killed Dragon Eye on his turn 4 to become an 8/8, and ate a 1/5 Ancestor on turn 5 to become a 13/13 and I cast Kin Tree Invocation on it turn 5 as well. Other than the one swipe he had at me during turn 5 he never drew an answer.
Next round I traded my Downfalls for Drown in Sorrow and 2 Dragon Eye for two Monastery Flock. Somehow I ended up with a 24/24 Skola by turn 5, he was mana-screwed and conceded when I cast Kin-Tree invocation on it.
Next Match - Mardu Midrange Aggro, my favor. Butcher of the Horde was a major threat here, but luckily I drew enough Downfalls to stop him game one, and managed to switch in enough Monastery Flocks to survive and win game two where he was destroyed, hilariously, by a Meandering Towershell he had forgotten about
Next Match - Green Black Midrange - Rakshasa Deathdealers. 2/1 in my favor. Very long games as I had to exhaust his downfalls and he had to exhaust mine. Very close match. I learned to respect the deathdealer.
Next Match - Blue, Black, White Control. Must I write more? I wasn't playing offensive aggro so my opponent constantly pulled off the ramp he needed to cancel everything I had. I did manage to switch in Sagu Maulers but it just wasn't enough when I am pretty sure he ran 10 board-wipes in his deck. He Ashioked my Prophet of Kruphix denied all my attempts to kill it and simply ended my deck completely.
I learned I needed Mistcutter Hydra in my sideboard, and maybe even a few counterspells.
I learned Phenax is a worthless, worthless, worthless card in my deck.
Next Match - Blue White Heroism - I wrecked him game one, as Sultai toughness tends to do against aggro decks. Even with his 5/5 and 7/7 heroic creatures, I was getting larger things faster. Round two he sideboarded
Aquatic Form and managed to aggro through my big butts. I was not expecting this strategy. He really beat the crap out of me.
Round three I was mana-screwed until turn 5.
I do enjoy this deck, I think I might look into cutting a color, and actually bringing in high value cards. Theres very few decks that I keep around, but just the fact that this works, and when it works I have 11/11 guys and life upwards of 25 makes it a rather fun deck. I hope the next expansion gives me something to work with.
Thanks for your input guys!
I have been messing around with this.
Hoonestly, not expecting Aqueous Form out of heroic was a serious mistake. You may want either Merciless Executioner or Back to Nature in your sideboard if that deck is unusually problematic for you.
As far as counterspells go, it sounds like Stubborn Denial or even Swan Song would fit teh bill superbly. I'm wondering if This deck wouldn't want Reaper of the Wilds or Grim Haruspex.
Guys, Guys, Guys, Guys!!!!!!
[Expletive, Expletive, Expletive]!!!
Assault Formation
Disowned Ancestor becomes a 4/4
Dragon Eye is a 6/6
AAAAAAAAHHSHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!
The Toughness Deck rides again!
Again, assuming an opponent is goldfishing until turn three [not actually too unlikely, if I went first or if the opponent has tap-lands]
T1 - Swamp, Disowned Ancestor
T2 - Island, Dragon-Eye Savants
T3 - Assault Formation, SWING FOR 10 DAMAGE
That's such an improvement
and for the rest of the game, I can play 4/4s for one or 6/6 for 2!!!
will be watching this.
Retired: WUEphara, God of the PolisWU blink | WGerrard CapashenW lifegain | WUB Ertai, the CorruptedWUB combo | WAvacyn, Angel of HopeW
mono-white controlangel tribalPauper: UBDimirKittyUB | RBG Deathcycle RBG
Modern: GWUEnchantressGWU | GWUTurbofogGWU
Assault formation gives this deck a chance to work, so you are probably best to run green as one of the colors in the deck. Very few decks are running spells capable of enchantment removal main deck. If you draw the spell and play it turn 2... the opponent is going to have a headache.
My problem is how do you plan on getting some offense going on without Assault Formation?
3x Treefolk Harbinger
3x Doran, The Siege Tower
4x Assault Formation
That seems like a safe base to make sure toughness matters. You can decide how the rest of the deck goes from there. All in toughness-aggro can work but I would probably go with more control elements and let the powerful toughness based beaters act as good defensive plays that then double as undercosted finishers.
The Deck already had the capacity to bring out extremely tough creatures via Kin-Tree Invocation and
Scourge of Skola Vale, using
Abzan Beastmaster for extra card draw
as well as Sultai Flayer and
Kheru Bloodsucker as utility creatures
which really discouraged people from destroying my high-toughness creatures
Occassionally, the Scourge becomes extremely massive and as a trampler, that is somewhat problematic to deal with.
And depending on my plays, Kin Tree Invocation can be a 4/4 on turn 2, a 6/6 on turn 3, or VERY Large if it targets Scourge of Skola Vale
As a final note, Zombie Mastodon is probably much better in the deck than
Meandering Towershell
and Silumgar, the Drifting Death is even cooler
Maybe add white for cards like Stalwart Shield-bearers, Perimeter Captain, Wall of Omens, Wall of Shards (nice in multiplayer)? Also opens the door for Doran, the Siege tower and Wakestone Gargoyle.