I imagine that he will cost about 15. This set has fetch land at common spot so it will see a lot of purchases, and Ugin is going to be big in EDH (1 of format) and big in casual play. He will probably see play in control strategies (standard) and wouldn't be surprised to see him in tron in modern. The foil version will be a bajillion dollars probably (edh). I really like ugin, he has a lot of flavor, ties in the main storyline with ktk and has some awesome abilities. As far as the only 2 colorless plainswalkers being powerful, they are also expensive. A 3-4 mana colorless pw would either have to be garbage or have abilities that all 5 colors should get.
I like it, I might give it a try in legacy MUD. It is stronger than Karn in quite a few board states, with the main drawback being much harder to get out turn 2 or 3. Ugin is so good against delver...comes down, wipes the board, cleans up anything they play, acts as a win-con and can get you out of burn range if you can make it to his ultimate.
Also, its really funny if played against imperial painter after they land a painter's servant.
I've never played Modern or Legacy, but I get the feeling that this could fit nicely into some good decks there, namely MUD and 12-post, and maybe some other mana ramp decks. If he resolves the worst case scenario is that he gets used as a marginally more mana-costly All is Dust, with the bonus of exiling things. The only colored permanents with CMC>7 I can think of that are used competitively are Progenitus and some big green creatures used for their ETB effects in elf decks.
He's also a bolt machine with a spectacular ultimate.
He looks really damn good, is what I'm saying.
Hornet Queen
A. Costs 1 less.
B. Is a Whip of Erebos target once milled, killed or countered.
C. Leaves behind tokens leaving you protected against 1 for 1 removal.
D. Gives you a handy army of blockers against large creatures.
E. Is played alongside mana dorks and Courser of Kruphix to ramp into of which Ugin would eat with his 2nd ability.
It's like Quacker says. Serious enablers need to be printed with him to make him viable or else he is just Garruk, Apex Predator Mk II. A high impact card that's too hard to cast and is easily removed or countered by much easier to cast cards. The fact that both will be the main face/character of the set they're in is a striking comparison too.
Thanks for addressing the main point of my argument, which was if Bolas was worth money, then how could Ugin not be?
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"Until you have lived as a statue, do not talk to me of pigeons."
—Karn, silver golem
Yes, let's all just be quiet until the pros show us what cards are good or bad. I don't claim to be 100% right on card evaluations, but I'm taking a position on something. So what? How can you ever "prove" that a card is good or sucks? Especially in this standard, when the hot card is just the flavor of the week. Especially since I never see you post anything. How about you throw some opinions out there once in a while? Or would you prefer a dead forum?
I will say that if they print an Unburial Rites for Planeswalkers (as in playable and not Obzedats Aid) or if they allow ultra colorless ramp into the format, Ugin will see play. Otherwise, no...there are too many standard decks that already exist that would eat his lunch.
OK, so here you go. While the card is a bit costly for "tier one" standard decks, it can still come into play turn 5 and dominate the board once there. With mana accelerators like Nissa, Worldwaker and Xenagos, the Reveler it could be one more chip in R/G Monsters hat. It could even see it's way into Temur midrange decks as a finisher. Mana dorks help power this into play faster. This may also prompt a resurgence of U/x control builds to hold off a card of this magnitude. The fact he's colorless makes the likelihood of him seeing play a bit greater....but I just can't count him out of the meta because he's costly. Elspeth is 6cc and she's in nearly every white deck out there.
I don't care if a "pro" makes this card work or not. I don't gauge my decks on what the pros put together. I've played RUG to victory for longer than Kibler's been taking about it and I'll guide my next deck without their "mastery and insight". Additionally, we shouldn't be completely trashing this card before we've seen what Fate has to offer to the meta.
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"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
You see...the fact here is that this will retain a good bit of value. Even if it isn't found in Mardu or Abzan decks it will remain a high dollar card. Casual appeal means a lot to card value, I would think by now you would've realized that. This card will thrive in EDH decks too. Aren't we talking about a Standard Legal card's dollar value?
And you've got me all wrong. I don't have issue with netdecking, and I certainly don't have a problem with a kid beating me with something he read about the night before....after all this is just a game right? You need to realize that I've been in this game longer than you've been walking and I've seen the ebbs and flows of card valuation. No, I didn't tell everyone to go all in on anything. As a matter of fact, I told of my friends that they shouldn't go all in on anything in the new set because it will be opened so massively that nothing could retain its start value. I advised my friends, and they advised me to trade smart and only buy at inflated prices if you can't find what you need, but need to have it now. The only card I missed out on recently was Goblin Rabblemaster...but for some reason I lucked out in prize packs and opened all I have.
Ugin is a big flashy planeswalker. That alone has sexiness written all over it. And for that reason, I think this planeswalker will stay above the $20 mark for a good while.
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"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
I We all know people like to play their planeswalkers. That doesn't mean they're good, or will impact the meta, etc. I mean, examine Savage Knuckleblade. Staple of Temur, worth $1, down from much higher. Did you go deep on those? Did you advise everyone to hoard all they could at pre-release? Do you think they're set to rise? That's what this forum is for. Ugin is not set to rise.
but the only thing why knuckleblade, butcher and co. are only 1€ rares is that the set was opened so freaking much, like no other set ever.
tons of legacy and modern players opened the set for fetches and sold everything else. thats why there is such a huge amount of rares and even mythics who see good play, and still only cost 1-2$.
in any other set those rares would cost between 5 and 10$. and sorin and sarkhan wouldnt cost 10$ or something but 20$.
Well, if I ever wanted something big and stupid to do with a bunch of Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx mana, this probably fits the bill nicely. This card gets you out of a lot of bad board states, often times with left over loyalty. I suspect the new Standard is going to have a lot of people sighing as their opponent counts up their mana to see if they have enough for Ugin.
Well, if I ever wanted something big and stupid to do with a bunch of Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx mana, this probably fits the bill nicely. This card gets you out of a lot of bad board states, often times with left over loyalty. I suspect the new Standard is going to have a lot of people sighing as their opponent counts up their mana to see if they have enough for Ugin.
The -X ability is quite strong on this in context to current standard this card is nuts. Nice hornet queen tokens it would be a shame if something happened to them. Most stuff you're exiling costs less than 4 mana/his 'vindicate' ability is way better than karns -3 since it deals with all the things usually. Only way he seems worse is that he has less loyalty since karn +4's/that's a lot of loyalty. I think in the context of this standard ugin is quite viable as a way to smash midrange since it exiles whip and any threats thrown at it pretty much except the ugin your opponent plays. Overall big fan of this guy and like him a lot.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
Awesome in EDH, no question there. But outside of extremely artifact heavy builds I don't see him being a game breaker in EDH, just another strong/cool option among many.
Cool niche playable in Standard/Modern, but far from OP given that he is a relatively slow finisher for that kind of investment. More likely he plays as a 1-of control/ramp tool.
Might be good enough in Cube, but I'm thinking he is probably too slow, at least for maximized cubes in terms of speed power.
Haven't seen anyone mention this yet, so I will; Ugin keeps tokens off the board like Jace, King of the Wallets keeps brainstorming, indefinitely unless acted on by an outside force. Even if this did nothing else, that would still make it a strong contender for many EDH decks. All the rest of the card is gravy, so much gravy.
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It's funny you mention garruk, apex predator, as I think he would be the natural foil to ugin. You can safely play him before and it will at least 1-1.
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon is a planeswalker. I will assume it is an artifact because it is colorless. I will combo Ugin with The Chain Veil and Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient to activate Ugin's abilities 6 times in 1 turn!!! Lastly, the -X ability, is totally "ALL IS DUST", if you remember that card.
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon is a planeswalker. I will assume it is an artifact because it is colorless. I will combo Ugin with The Chain Veil and Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient to activate Ugin's abilities 6 times in 1 turn!!! Lastly, the -X ability, is totally "ALL IS DUST", if you remember that card.
kurkesh can copy the abilities of chain veil i think is what heero was referring to, although i don't get how it activates his abilities 6 times. my count is 3 times in one turn with kurkesh and the chain veil in play.
kurkesh can copy the abilities of chain veil i think is what heero was referring to, although i don't get how it activates his abilities 6 times. my count is 3 times in one turn with kurkesh and the chain veil in play.
He was counting 6 from also copying Ugin's ability each of the 3 times it's activated (which doesn't work, as stated).
Hero's Downfall?
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to get us started on the whole dies to removal-tack. I just am somewhat skeptical of Ugin in Standard. Is he a great planeswalker? YES! HE'S AMAZING! I don't doubt that at all. However, the cost of eight is kinda rough in standard, and there's a lot of planeswalker hate right now. Against aggro, he would be wasted space in the deck, and against Despise or targeted discard, its gonna pull a whole bunch of hate.
It'll be rough to defend, not gonna lie, rough to get out and rough to maintain. I still think he's the best planeswalker around, and if you get him to actually do things, then more power to you.
As a final note
In commander however, like seriously, you'd pull aggro from everyone at the table.
If you expect that he'll be downfalled, just minus him and wipe the board in the most favorable way. I would agree with you if he didn't have reasonable impact when he hit the table, but being able to wipe in a potentially one sided manner (especially against aggro decks that have a fairly low curve!) means that even in that situation, he can have a HUGE amount of impact. He already showed up strong at the new standard SCG Open this past weekend, and I expect that the brews people have with him will be further refined as time goes on.
Against aggro, he would be wasted space in the deck
I stopped reading after that statement. Um...2 outta 3 effects. 8 will always be a turn off for some. Always. But it is NOT completely unheard of for control finishes. I've never seen a walker more exceptional at protecting itself. It has a durable high starting loyalty, like karn, but has ashioks growth rate. Translation: u will have a nightmare of a time chipping it down. As a matter of fact, u never will. U will NEVER have the creature presence to swing it down.
U mentioned downfall? The real issue is u had better have one ready to fire or ugin will overtake u. So much value. The wipe is clean and precise. Without it, u can get to ult in 2 turns, crack it, and the ugin will still live
I still have know idea how this card is gonna be a thing. Maybe in standard and EDH but beyond that, its pretty much jank. Of course 99% of pw are jank in modern so thats just saying he is par for the course.
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Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
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Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
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Also, its really funny if played against imperial painter after they land a painter's servant.
He's also a bolt machine with a spectacular ultimate.
He looks really damn good, is what I'm saying.
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Thanks for addressing the main point of my argument, which was if Bolas was worth money, then how could Ugin not be?
—Karn, silver golem
OK, so here you go. While the card is a bit costly for "tier one" standard decks, it can still come into play turn 5 and dominate the board once there. With mana accelerators like Nissa, Worldwaker and Xenagos, the Reveler it could be one more chip in R/G Monsters hat. It could even see it's way into Temur midrange decks as a finisher. Mana dorks help power this into play faster. This may also prompt a resurgence of U/x control builds to hold off a card of this magnitude. The fact he's colorless makes the likelihood of him seeing play a bit greater....but I just can't count him out of the meta because he's costly. Elspeth is 6cc and she's in nearly every white deck out there.
I don't care if a "pro" makes this card work or not. I don't gauge my decks on what the pros put together. I've played RUG to victory for longer than Kibler's been taking about it and I'll guide my next deck without their "mastery and insight". Additionally, we shouldn't be completely trashing this card before we've seen what Fate has to offer to the meta.
And you've got me all wrong. I don't have issue with netdecking, and I certainly don't have a problem with a kid beating me with something he read about the night before....after all this is just a game right? You need to realize that I've been in this game longer than you've been walking and I've seen the ebbs and flows of card valuation. No, I didn't tell everyone to go all in on anything. As a matter of fact, I told of my friends that they shouldn't go all in on anything in the new set because it will be opened so massively that nothing could retain its start value. I advised my friends, and they advised me to trade smart and only buy at inflated prices if you can't find what you need, but need to have it now. The only card I missed out on recently was Goblin Rabblemaster...but for some reason I lucked out in prize packs and opened all I have.
Ugin is a big flashy planeswalker. That alone has sexiness written all over it. And for that reason, I think this planeswalker will stay above the $20 mark for a good while.
but the only thing why knuckleblade, butcher and co. are only 1€ rares is that the set was opened so freaking much, like no other set ever.
tons of legacy and modern players opened the set for fetches and sold everything else. thats why there is such a huge amount of rares and even mythics who see good play, and still only cost 1-2$.
in any other set those rares would cost between 5 and 10$. and sorin and sarkhan wouldnt cost 10$ or something but 20$.
Opponent: Counts lands.
Me: "Ha you only have 7 lands, no Ugin for you."
Opponent: Plays top-decked land.
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Cool niche playable in Standard/Modern, but far from OP given that he is a relatively slow finisher for that kind of investment. More likely he plays as a 1-of control/ramp tool.
Might be good enough in Cube, but I'm thinking he is probably too slow, at least for maximized cubes in terms of speed power.
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Ugin, the Spirit Dragon isn't an artifact. Thus, you can't use Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient to combo with him. Kurkesh doesn't combo with Spawnsire of Ulamog, either.
He was counting 6 from also copying Ugin's ability each of the 3 times it's activated (which doesn't work, as stated).
Hero's Downfall?
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to get us started on the whole dies to removal-tack. I just am somewhat skeptical of Ugin in Standard. Is he a great planeswalker? YES! HE'S AMAZING! I don't doubt that at all. However, the cost of eight is kinda rough in standard, and there's a lot of planeswalker hate right now. Against aggro, he would be wasted space in the deck, and against Despise or targeted discard, its gonna pull a whole bunch of hate.
It'll be rough to defend, not gonna lie, rough to get out and rough to maintain. I still think he's the best planeswalker around, and if you get him to actually do things, then more power to you.
As a final note
In commander however, like seriously, you'd pull aggro from everyone at the table.
I stopped reading after that statement. Um...2 outta 3 effects. 8 will always be a turn off for some. Always. But it is NOT completely unheard of for control finishes. I've never seen a walker more exceptional at protecting itself. It has a durable high starting loyalty, like karn, but has ashioks growth rate. Translation: u will have a nightmare of a time chipping it down. As a matter of fact, u never will. U will NEVER have the creature presence to swing it down.
U mentioned downfall? The real issue is u had better have one ready to fire or ugin will overtake u. So much value. The wipe is clean and precise. Without it, u can get to ult in 2 turns, crack it, and the ugin will still live
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.