I am very glad that Freyalise, a major character in the story of this game, has finally been given a card that depicts her, but I must admit that I find her card to be slightly underwhelming. Each ability of hers is powerful in its own right, but altogether, I am disappointed. I was expecting that such an important figure in the history of this game would have some unique and near-game-breaking ability, but each of her abilities is one that has been explored in the past (not on other planeswalkers, but in other areas).
She certainly is not weak by any means, but I was expecting much more from her. What does everyone else say about this? Also, why is the token that she generates not named Llanowar elves? Tokens can have names, as shown with Helm of Kaldra and Tolsimir Wolfblood, so I see no reason why WotC could not have added the words "named Llanowar elves" between the words "token" and "onto" in her first ability?
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She's pretty disappointing.
She's one of the only Planeswalkers I know of that fails the test of
"Would I use a Sorcery that costs as much and has the effect of the PW Ultimate?"
Most Planeswalkers pass this test by a mile, but Freyalise flounders majorly.
On top of that, her other abilities are not that great.
Llanowar Elves aren't very useful in EDH, even when they're "free".
The Naturalize ability is useful, and the threat of it is probably her most effective tool,
but she just makes for a very bland package and a boring General.
I'd almost certainly rather run Regal Force- it might also be a better commander
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
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She's a utility-general, correct. However I fail to see how she's bad.
She ramps, she deals with non-creature threats and she has a very reach-able ultimate to draw a lot of gas.
Basically she makes you able to remove Naturalize and its ilk from your deck as she can handle those threats. Green likes to ramp into big things and in EDH it gets even better. Considering the 3 types of Doubling Seasons we have in green, it makes her ramp slightly more interactive than a Rampant Growth or Explore.
And the ultimate is aided by her +2 over the first two turns she's down.
Granted, spitting out a Llanowar Elves is not a very resilient source of ramp - however how many actually run ping-effects in EDH? Board wipes, fair game, but that leaves Freyalise free to continue.
Generally I see her potential as a commander to be the ticket to leave out similar cards from your deck and focus entirely on what you want the deck to do.
Also, why is the token that she generates not named Llanowar elves?
Here, why don't you try answering this question yourself?
Think about it. What potential issues could there be with creating tokens of a preexisting card that would lead Wizards to opt against it?
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
So because they did it in the past, that means they can do it again in the present without worrying about confusing newer players?
Perhaps the Spellshaper cycle in Future Sight was poorly received by a majority of players for being too confusing (like the rest of Future Sight was), and they decided not to make the same mistake with Freyalise?
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
EDH is unlikely a format that new players venture into without a lot of patience for trial and error and lots of questions...
And exactly because they've done it in the past makes it more feasible that they'll do it again in a supplemental product that in general is more complex than the expansion blocks.
I don't think the spellshaper cycle was confusing as how they function. AFAIK the only dislike was that they bled the color-pie and some people disliked how they functioned.
As for named tokens, we recently had Progenitor Mimic who makes named token copies of itself whilst it itself copies another creature. So you potentially could get multiple Llanowar Elves tokens.
I fail to see the difference between clone-tokens and a straight forward "put a token onto the battlefield that is a X (existing card)".
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Legacy: UWBMiracles
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She is perfect for commander, which is what she has been designed for. She will be played in Elf tribal decks alongside Doubling Season and things like Beacon of Creation, where she will thrive. Her -2 is also probably being underrated at the moment.
Your referring to a time when Wizards didn't print token. Your also forgetting that Elvish Mystic has taken Llanowar elves place since its not plane specific. A 1/1 green Elf Druid creature token with 'T :Add G to your mana pool.' can be created by a card on any world with elves so its best to leave the token generic so it can be useable with Freyalise later instead of only being able to use specific tokens.
People are ignoring the fact that Freyalise is a commander and can be recast many times. Each token she makes, which is the + ability that already makes it more difficult to get rid of her in the first place, makes it easier to pay her commander tax when needed. Not only that but the tokens can chump block when needed. Plus you can build an army and extra mana base after a board wipe.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Ya I don't really like her. Making mana elves is okay, but kinda boring and dosen't do much. Naturalize as a second ability is good, but again, pretty boring. Her ultimate is good and reachable, but again, just boring.
1)creates a chump blocker and a source of ramp while adding +2 Loyalty. At five mana in a duel, this isnt super impressive for mono-green. For multiplayer, this is very good. It propels you to your late game while helping keep you alive.
2)Deals with very problematic non-creatures. There are a LOT of powerful enchantments and artifacts in the world, and many of them show up at multiplayer tables. Repeatable sources of destruction can generate a lot of value and do serious work, whether its removing propoganda and opening up an attack against someone or sol ring and taking away all the accelerated tempo they thought they had.
3)Inexpensive ultimate. It may not say 'I win' as directly as others, but people wont be as afraid of it going off either. regal Force is an unquestionably powerful dude, and this is a (almost) uncounterable sorcery version. Not great after a sweeper, but she already helps with that with her +2.
4) The biggest one; PEOPLE WILL UNDERESTIMATE HER. She doesnt scream I WIN when you whirlwind slam her down Yugioh style. The forest's fury is more quiet, but still terrifying when taken advantage of People will lose against her and not even realize she is the reason they lost.
Where some see boring, others will recognize a lot of utility and subtlety
Just my opinion, obviously havent tried her yet I like her though
The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light.
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
^Seems like a pretty on point evaluation. Boring but effective. I guess that's why I consider her better than Nahiri and Ob as a color walker-commander.
For what it's worth, the opposite of evergreen is "deciduous" so I suggest we start using that from now on to refer to shroud, banding, islandhome, etc.
^Seems like a pretty on point evaluation. Boring but effective. I guess that's why I consider her better than Nahiri and Ob as a color walker-commander.
I like all of them to be honest
I think people dont like the recent Planeswalker ultimate abilities lately. We have come to regard Jace, the Mind sculptor and Sarkhan Vol and Ajani Vengeant as normal and so we assess abilities weaker than these as bad.
What I like about planeswalkers is that things are not truly that simple in an actual game, especially multiplayer. A table of players sees that big bad ultimate and do everything they can to prevent it, so these planeswalkers dont really get to shine. Instead, people see ultimates that require more work and they dont worry about it and sometimes forget the walker is even there.
Personally, they also deeply play into my love of games-inside-a -game: do I attack Freyalise so you dont restock your hand, or do I risk it and push the race? Big I-Win ultimates make the choice easy, value based ones are trickier to play around
The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light.
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
As far as the token-name thing: Freyalise is an old-style walker. Probably is familiar with dozens of types of Elf Druids, not just Llanowar ones. Wasn't she associated with the Fyndhorn Elves, for instance?
I currently run Omnath as my mono green Commander. He can be very hit or miss, and honestly, I very seldom end up smashing face with him. He ends up being as a one-sided Upwelling that deters people from attacking me, which is solid enough. Most importantly though, he ramps me into big spells.
Freyalise can offer me something similar, but with more flexibility and less potency. She poops out tokens that ramp, or soak up a hit. She gets rid of pesky enchantment and artifacts that get in the way. And if I can protect my field, which is pretty easy with all the fatties I fun, I can easily draw tons of cards with her. If nothing else, she will replace one of the many artifact/enchantment destruction cards in the deck. She isn't amazing, but she's a solid Commander if you know how mono green Commander decks run.
^ As someone who runs an Omnath primer, I agree with the above post. Omnath can certainly play the role of beatstick, but the honest truth is that is more of a backup plan. Using him as an engine is typically more productive. Freyalise looks to be an excellent toolbox card who, while not possessing Omnath's raw power, provides more options in a pinch. She can pump out creatures who can both ramp and chump block (as an aside, she certainly plays better with Doubling Season and Parallel Lives than Omnath). She can take out a problem card. Her ultimate can put you into gas. Plus, unless someone wipes the board AND kills her, her +1 helps you re-cast her if she does get dealt with.
Irrelevant. You didn't know what strictly better means, but you saw some cool people use it, so you went with it. Now you want to save face by aggressively turning it into a discussion of whether or not the charm [Dimir Charm] is standard playable, which is an altogether different discussion. Very transparent, zero points for trying.
I do agree that the elf druid token should be named Llanowar Elves. That was a big flavor foul.
But I think the important thing here is monogreen is getting a critical mass of GOOD planeswalkers. All of the Garruks are amazing in Commander, Nissa Revane's pretty good in elves, if not great when gaining you 20 life or so as a plus ability., Nissa Worldwaker's good, and this chick is decent. Can serve as repeatable artifact/enchantment removal, can ultimate when played if Doubling Season is out which is a major effect I use in my elf decks. Green honestly has insane card draw in Commander, and this just adds to that.
She's definitely suited for only 1 or two types of decks (Omnath or Elves), but I think she's great in those decks.
I do think that her being named "Llanowar Fury" is the real flavor fail. She has 3 grand forest under her guard, and in two of them we have this type of druid in cards (llanowar and Fyndhorn), so make sense the tokens without name.
About the card, she isn't sparkling like some other cards, but is really powerfull in almost any green deck. She is a utility that will be important almost all the game and as a commander is really good without a target in your face.
I somehow find it tragic when an attacking Traveling Philosopher gets blocked by another Traveling Philosopher, which normally results in two dead philosophers. Shouldn't they just sit aside and start discussing?
"This is really exciting, so much to find out about, so much to look forward to, I'm quite dizzy with anticipation . . . Or is it the wind? There really is a lot of that now, isn't there? And wow! Hey! What's this thing suddenly coming toward me very fast? Very, very fast. So big and flat and round, it needs a big wide-sounding name like . . . ow . . . ound . . . round . . . ground! That's it! That's a good name- ground! I wonder if it will be friends with me? Hello Ground!"
Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the Sprouting Phytohydra as it fell was Oh no, not again.
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She certainly is not weak by any means, but I was expecting much more from her. What does everyone else say about this? Also, why is the token that she generates not named Llanowar elves? Tokens can have names, as shown with Helm of Kaldra and Tolsimir Wolfblood, so I see no reason why WotC could not have added the words "named Llanowar elves" between the words "token" and "onto" in her first ability?
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She's one of the only Planeswalkers I know of that fails the test of
"Would I use a Sorcery that costs as much and has the effect of the PW Ultimate?"
Most Planeswalkers pass this test by a mile, but Freyalise flounders majorly.
On top of that, her other abilities are not that great.
Llanowar Elves aren't very useful in EDH, even when they're "free".
The Naturalize ability is useful, and the threat of it is probably her most effective tool,
but she just makes for a very bland package and a boring General.
I'd almost certainly rather run Regal Force- it might also be a better commander
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EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
However, I don't intend for her to command the deck. She will just be in the 99.
She ramps, she deals with non-creature threats and she has a very reach-able ultimate to draw a lot of gas.
Basically she makes you able to remove Naturalize and its ilk from your deck as she can handle those threats. Green likes to ramp into big things and in EDH it gets even better. Considering the 3 types of Doubling Seasons we have in green, it makes her ramp slightly more interactive than a Rampant Growth or Explore.
And the ultimate is aided by her +2 over the first two turns she's down.
Arbitrary but the new 5/5 Elemental that lent its powers to another creature is bonkers with those elves.
Granted, spitting out a Llanowar Elves is not a very resilient source of ramp - however how many actually run ping-effects in EDH? Board wipes, fair game, but that leaves Freyalise free to continue.
Generally I see her potential as a commander to be the ticket to leave out similar cards from your deck and focus entirely on what you want the deck to do.
Here, why don't you try answering this question yourself?
Think about it. What potential issues could there be with creating tokens of a preexisting card that would lead Wizards to opt against it?
So because they did it in the past, that means they can do it again in the present without worrying about confusing newer players?
Perhaps the Spellshaper cycle in Future Sight was poorly received by a majority of players for being too confusing (like the rest of Future Sight was), and they decided not to make the same mistake with Freyalise?
And exactly because they've done it in the past makes it more feasible that they'll do it again in a supplemental product that in general is more complex than the expansion blocks.
I don't think the spellshaper cycle was confusing as how they function. AFAIK the only dislike was that they bled the color-pie and some people disliked how they functioned.
As for named tokens, we recently had Progenitor Mimic who makes named token copies of itself whilst it itself copies another creature. So you potentially could get multiple Llanowar Elves tokens.
I fail to see the difference between clone-tokens and a straight forward "put a token onto the battlefield that is a X (existing card)".
Honestly for being the poster child on Pernicious Deed this card is down right garbage and does her character no justice.
New Ob Nixilis is almost as bad.
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Legacy:
UWBMiracles
Edh:
UUUThassa Control
WWWHokori Stax
GGGJolrael, Empress of Land Stompy
BBBGriselbrand French List
RBGShattergang(Super Villians)
RWGHazezon Flicker
UBRMarchesa Aggro
URGMaelstom Wanderer (Maelstorm)
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Your referring to a time when Wizards didn't print token. Your also forgetting that Elvish Mystic has taken Llanowar elves place since its not plane specific. A 1/1 green Elf Druid creature token with 'T :Add G to your mana pool.' can be created by a card on any world with elves so its best to leave the token generic so it can be useable with Freyalise later instead of only being able to use specific tokens.
People are ignoring the fact that Freyalise is a commander and can be recast many times. Each token she makes, which is the + ability that already makes it more difficult to get rid of her in the first place, makes it easier to pay her commander tax when needed. Not only that but the tokens can chump block when needed. Plus you can build an army and extra mana base after a board wipe.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
1)creates a chump blocker and a source of ramp while adding +2 Loyalty. At five mana in a duel, this isnt super impressive for mono-green. For multiplayer, this is very good. It propels you to your late game while helping keep you alive.
2)Deals with very problematic non-creatures. There are a LOT of powerful enchantments and artifacts in the world, and many of them show up at multiplayer tables. Repeatable sources of destruction can generate a lot of value and do serious work, whether its removing propoganda and opening up an attack against someone or sol ring and taking away all the accelerated tempo they thought they had.
3)Inexpensive ultimate. It may not say 'I win' as directly as others, but people wont be as afraid of it going off either. regal Force is an unquestionably powerful dude, and this is a (almost) uncounterable sorcery version. Not great after a sweeper, but she already helps with that with her +2.
4) The biggest one; PEOPLE WILL UNDERESTIMATE HER. She doesnt scream I WIN when you whirlwind slam her down Yugioh style. The forest's fury is more quiet, but still terrifying when taken advantage of People will lose against her and not even realize she is the reason they lost.
Where some see boring, others will recognize a lot of utility and subtlety
Just my opinion, obviously havent tried her yet I like her though
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
She is, in my opinion, the most underwhelming card in the set, especially since Freyalise is such an awesome character.
Quotes:
I like all of them to be honest
I think people dont like the recent Planeswalker ultimate abilities lately. We have come to regard Jace, the Mind sculptor and Sarkhan Vol and Ajani Vengeant as normal and so we assess abilities weaker than these as bad.
What I like about planeswalkers is that things are not truly that simple in an actual game, especially multiplayer. A table of players sees that big bad ultimate and do everything they can to prevent it, so these planeswalkers dont really get to shine. Instead, people see ultimates that require more work and they dont worry about it and sometimes forget the walker is even there.
Personally, they also deeply play into my love of games-inside-a -game: do I attack Freyalise so you dont restock your hand, or do I risk it and push the race? Big I-Win ultimates make the choice easy, value based ones are trickier to play around
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
Freyalise can offer me something similar, but with more flexibility and less potency. She poops out tokens that ramp, or soak up a hit. She gets rid of pesky enchantment and artifacts that get in the way. And if I can protect my field, which is pretty easy with all the fatties I fun, I can easily draw tons of cards with her. If nothing else, she will replace one of the many artifact/enchantment destruction cards in the deck. She isn't amazing, but she's a solid Commander if you know how mono green Commander decks run.
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I think they did a good job though--I'm pretty sick of $30-50 'great' PW's.
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But I think the important thing here is monogreen is getting a critical mass of GOOD planeswalkers. All of the Garruks are amazing in Commander, Nissa Revane's pretty good in elves, if not great when gaining you 20 life or so as a plus ability., Nissa Worldwaker's good, and this chick is decent. Can serve as repeatable artifact/enchantment removal, can ultimate when played if Doubling Season is out which is a major effect I use in my elf decks. Green honestly has insane card draw in Commander, and this just adds to that.
She's definitely suited for only 1 or two types of decks (Omnath or Elves), but I think she's great in those decks.
About the card, she isn't sparkling like some other cards, but is really powerfull in almost any green deck. She is a utility that will be important almost all the game and as a commander is really good without a target in your face.