Rakshasa Deathdealer is also interesting: a sturdy, resilient beater is the kind of thing GB decks want, and it comes at a decent price and stats.
Finally, Abzan Ascendancy seems like a pretty good midrange card to beef up the entire team and give it resiliency by turning creatures to spirit tokens, which slowly gives you the upper hand in grindy games.
Overall, I think that outside of Standard the only one that has potential is Howl, and a big maybe in Deathdealer.
Howl? Sorry, but I dont think so...reverberate wasnt very good when it was printed and it was instant. Fork was great 20 years ago but similar cards just havent fared as well since. Lets say you wanted to fork say a lightning strike...you would need 5 mana(the raid effect is highly situational but lets say you build to take advantage of it) with raid activated you get 9 damage for 5 mana...pretty good especially in some boros aggro deck running Iroas since then your creature might survive. Without raid you are looking at 6 damage for 5 mana..decent but hardly something you would want when you could just run another lightning strike, magma jet or searing blood. I would agree with you if this had a cmc of 1, but not 3, too often you will draw it late game with an empty hand, or with a creature...it shoots itself in the foot, it relies on creatures for value, but it cant give you value with too many creatures unless you rely on token generators. It would be sweet with assemble the legion...too bad it wont be in the same standard
Really I didn't know dig thorugh time was such an obvious sleeper...
My sleeper is: High Sentinels of Arashin
It's got resto stats and can pump others to pump himself. It might even be playable in pod as it resets finks and redcap.
Funny, the Sentinels were my first thought too. Lot of potential there, especially if you can pair him with creatures that inherently have +1/+1 counters, allowing him to come down as a 4/5+ immediately.
Stubborn Denial jumps out to me as a card with a lot of potential, both in Standand and in older formats. In older formats you get creatures like Goyf, Reliquary, and Batterskull that fully power it, while there are a TON of decks that want cheap counters and plenty of noncreature targets for them. In Standard this seems like it could be fantastic for midrange decks when facing more controlling decks, as it allows you to drop a major threat on turn 4-5 while still having mana up to counter their wrath/downfall/whatever.
Grim Haruspex is another one that I expect to do a lot of work in Standard, and possibly even in other formats. He is just such a great way to top off an aggro curve.
Mardu Skullhunter is a card that we will probably be seeing a lot of, often alongside the Haruspex. Those two along with the Bloodsoaked Champion combine with the great Theros stuff to give black a really strong aggro deck.
Become Immense hasn't gotten much attention but I think it will see play in multiple formats. In older formats it is extremely easy to cast this for 1-2 mana (same reason Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time are about to reshape Legacy)...and INFECT exists. In Standard this isn't as explosive, but still interesting as a 1-2 of in the right deck if it isn't competing for space with other delve cards. Hitting for 10 with your Stormbreath/Sarkhan (or heaven forbit you have Xenagod out, lol) is a nice way to finish a game.
Warden of the Eye might just be too slow, but I feel like the ability to get back planeswalkers could allow it to sneak into an America walkers/control style build in Standard. It is the kind of card that could shine if the meta slows down and lots of midrange and tap-out control decks are what you expect to face. Card advantage is always big in those matchups, and being able to get not just a card, but your best card, is big (especially with Thoughtseize being legal).
Brave the Sands feels like it could be something in token decks or even soul sisters in modern chump blocking 2 creatures with a 1/1 seems like it could be ok.
Jeskai Ascendancy is making a splash in Standard, but I think Ascendancy "Storm" will be a sleeper deck in Modern. I'm testing a Glittering Wish version and it's surprisingly fast, consistent, resilient, versatile, and powerful. They have to counter Ascendancy every time, blow it up at instant speed, keep me from Wishing for alternatives, or kill all the mana dorks (good luck with that when I play Sylvan Caryatid). I'm not doing that well against Twin, Delver, and Faeries, and Jund and Tron can be struggles, but it's got pretty good game against a lot of decks. Start off with too little disruption or aggro and I will likely win.
Yeah, the allied fetches, Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise are making every other KTK card look like sleepers in Modern, Legacy, and Vintage. Heck, Treasure Cruise looks like a sleeper compared to Dig Through Time in Modern. I think Sorin, Solemn Visitor is particularly underrated in Modern. He makes big flying tokens and singlehandedly hoses the Burn match-up, and for those reasons, I believe he will unseat Sorin, Lord of Innistrad.
Howl of the Horde looks like a card that a deck running Young Pyromancer would like . It is like you attack with a token , then play howl + bolt , make 2 tokens deal 9 distributed.
All the charms.
Savage knukblade could see play in the RUG pyromancer deck.
Harderned scales will be a casual favorite and possible could make one or two decks a litle better in modern
Uter End is versatile.
that force spike with ferocious can become huge too.
I feel like Temur Ascendancy has a lot of potential. Haste is good already, and drawing cards is a huge deal imo. In modern I think it will be played with Imaginary Pet and other cards like that which really benefit from either being played again or haste, or both. Vengevine would be good too, along with Cosmic Larva.
Disdainful Stroke is very strong. I expect it to be a key player in standard going forward.
Also, Seeker of the Way is a very annoying card to try and race. I could see it doing a surprising amount of work in a dedicated Prowess tempo deck.
Both good calls. A lot of the other cards I am seeing mentioned (mythics, Ascenancies, Howl) seem like stretches as "sleepers" as I have seen them get plenty of attention. But these two seem like they could be more than just niche players in Standard, and I haven't seen a lot of lists with them yet.
I think one of the sleepers in the set is Chief of the Edge 2 mana for 3/2 is fine on its own but giving +1 power to warriors when we have a decent amount of playable warriors already, one drops like Tormented Hero and Bloodsoaked Champion have an issue right now with attacking through Sylvan Caryatid and being able to make them 3 power is huge right now.
As the set goes on and we see more warriors potentially standard playable ones this card only gets better.
If I'm excluding commons and uncommons, I might go with Mantis Rider ($2). If that color combination can work in Standard it'll do some good work. If I had to choose a mythic I might choose Wingmate Roc ($6) or Sidisi, Brood Tyrant ($5), although I don't feel confident enough to stock up on either one right now.
New sorin is quite underrated in my eyes. Played with him a few times at the prerelease and he's incredible. Untapping twice with him typically equals the abyss. Being able to make wind drakes as well is quite good as 2/2 fliers aren't exactly bad in combat usually. Protects himself quite well.
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Howl's weakness is that it can only copy your spells. For it to work you need the following:
- A creature you don't mind losing
- A Divination, or similar spell that scales well with being copied twice
- Howl in hand
- Enough mana to cast them (6 if using Divination)
- Howl needs to resolve
Most importantly, you then need to not be dead on board after investing all of that effort. In the above example, you'd almost always be better off following a different line of play such as going high quality creature into Aurelia or Zegana (and note - those two cards do not see play in Standard either), or just drop an Elspeth. (I know the two creatures I named are rotating but there's always very high impact 6 mana cards in Standard that amplify an already winning board position).
That's always the risk with value combos (i.e. combos that don't win the game but generate a big advantage). Your opponent can just go bigger back at you.
And this is coming from a person that actually advocated playtesting Reverberate in ISD-RTR standard as an anti-control value play (it counters their counters, and it can win you the game in response to your opponent casting Sphinx's Revelation as you draw your cards before they draw theirs).
My pick of possible sleeper is Wingmate Roc. The card matches up very well against Sarkhan, is on curve or just a little below as a "6/4 flier" for 5, and gains just enough life to put you ahead in races. Requiring raid isn't too much of an issue. I expect it to settle as the #2 mythic (behind Sarkhan) as there really isn't much else (Sorin seems just a little too fragile, and three colour creatures are seldom 4-ofs or even close to it).
+1 for Jeskai Ascendancy. Someone, somewhere will break this card wide open, be it in Modern, Legacy or EDH.
As I said in an earlier post, I suspect I've broken Jeskai Ascendency in Modern. I used the Standard Ascendancy Storm thread and others' suggestions of Glittering Wish and Wind Zendikon as inspiration, and I've refined a deck with the explosiveness of Infect (I've gotten two Turn 2 wins so far against actual opponents), the general play style and likely the speed of Modern UR Storm (I regularly outrace Modern Affinity, both Storm decks cantrip, ramp, and produce CA like the dickens), and some of the resilience of Legacy TES (going off through one of Pod's hate bears is so easy with Glittering Wish for removal). I also get to roundhouse kick other devoted combo decks with Glittering Wish for Slaughter Games. It has a rough time against Delver, Twin, and Faeries, and even Jund and RG Tron can be uphill battles, but all those match-ups are definitely winnable.
...Well, maybe I've only broken Ascendancy as much as Melira Pod has broken Birthing Pod, but I've comboed off through Thoughtseize on combo pieces and removal on mana dorks. It's also fun to make Storm and Faeries behave completely neurotically. (Turn 2 Grapeshot on my mana dork and EOT Mistbind Clique vs. my 3 mana dorks, anyone?)
Sagu Mauler for sure. I just don't understand how no one is talking about him. Even in the sleeper thread!
He's relatively easy to cast, he has both evasion (trample) and resilience (hexproof), and he provides an element of versatility in that you can play him morphed on turn three. You could also get him out way ahead of schedule in a mystic caryatid monsters type build.
Sagu Mauler for sure. I just don't understand how no one is talking about him. Even in the sleeper thread!
He's relatively easy to cast, he has both evasion (trample) and resilience (hexproof), and he provides an element of versatility in that you can play him morphed on turn three. You could also get him out way ahead of schedule in a mystic caryatid monsters type build.
Basically anything that's not fetchlands, Sorin, Sarkhan, or Mythic can be considered potentially a sleeper right now, as barely anything is worth more than a pack at the moment.
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[quote from="CadaverousBl00m »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/new-card-discussion/572935-sleepers-of-the-set?comment=17"]+1 for Jeskai Ascendancy. Someone, somewhere will break this card wide open, be it in Modern, Legacy or EDH.
As I said in an earlier post, I suspect I've broken Jeskai Ascendency in Modern. I used the Standard Ascendancy Storm thread and others' suggestions of Glittering Wish and Wind Zendikon as inspiration, and I've refined a deck with the explosiveness of Infect (I've gotten two Turn 2 wins so far against actual opponents), the general play style and likely the speed of Modern UR Storm (I regularly outrace Modern Affinity, both Storm decks cantrip, ramp, and produce CA like the dickens), and some of the resilience of Legacy TES (going off through one of Pod's hate bears is so easy with Glittering Wish for removal). I also get to roundhouse kick other devoted combo decks with Glittering Wish for Slaughter Games. It has a rough time against Delver, Twin, and Faeries, and even Jund and RG Tron can be uphill battles, but all those match-ups are definitely winnable.
...Well, maybe I've only broken Ascendancy as much as Melira Pod has broken Birthing Pod, but I've comboed off through Thoughtseize on combo pieces and removal on mana dorks. It's also fun to make Storm and Faeries behave completely neurotically. (Turn 2 Grapeshot on my mana dork and EOT Mistbind Clique vs. my 3 mana dorks, anyone?)
Yeah...no. What makes Legacy TES so resilient is that they are able to beat decks that routinely interact with them with free counterspells, discard, 1 and 2 mana counterspells, etc. Any 'Jeskai Ascendancy' deck is all-in on that plan. The deck is literally just a pile of 1/1's, cantrips, and Jeskai Ascendancy. Modern Control decks will eat you for breakfast. I'd be surprised if you had as much as a 20% chance, and considering that while the decks aren't that great, people love to play them, so it's not like you'll be able to dodge them that often.
I am kinda expecting this to see play as a finisher in some black based control deck that also runs Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, but as it could likely only be a one-of, and since a trillion billion packs will get opened for fetchlands, demand might still never outstrip supply (this may be true of a lot of things).
Personally I think that Howl of the Horde can be really exploitable in the right type of deck, kind of Pyromancer's Ascension or Splinter Twin were, it just needs the right build.
Rakshasa Deathdealer is also interesting: a sturdy, resilient beater is the kind of thing GB decks want, and it comes at a decent price and stats.
Finally, Abzan Ascendancy seems like a pretty good midrange card to beef up the entire team and give it resiliency by turning creatures to spirit tokens, which slowly gives you the upper hand in grindy games.
Overall, I think that outside of Standard the only one that has potential is Howl, and a big maybe in Deathdealer.
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Funny, the Sentinels were my first thought too. Lot of potential there, especially if you can pair him with creatures that inherently have +1/+1 counters, allowing him to come down as a 4/5+ immediately.
Stubborn Denial jumps out to me as a card with a lot of potential, both in Standand and in older formats. In older formats you get creatures like Goyf, Reliquary, and Batterskull that fully power it, while there are a TON of decks that want cheap counters and plenty of noncreature targets for them. In Standard this seems like it could be fantastic for midrange decks when facing more controlling decks, as it allows you to drop a major threat on turn 4-5 while still having mana up to counter their wrath/downfall/whatever.
Grim Haruspex is another one that I expect to do a lot of work in Standard, and possibly even in other formats. He is just such a great way to top off an aggro curve.
Mardu Skullhunter is a card that we will probably be seeing a lot of, often alongside the Haruspex. Those two along with the Bloodsoaked Champion combine with the great Theros stuff to give black a really strong aggro deck.
Become Immense hasn't gotten much attention but I think it will see play in multiple formats. In older formats it is extremely easy to cast this for 1-2 mana (same reason Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time are about to reshape Legacy)...and INFECT exists. In Standard this isn't as explosive, but still interesting as a 1-2 of in the right deck if it isn't competing for space with other delve cards. Hitting for 10 with your Stormbreath/Sarkhan (or heaven forbit you have Xenagod out, lol) is a nice way to finish a game.
Warden of the Eye might just be too slow, but I feel like the ability to get back planeswalkers could allow it to sneak into an America walkers/control style build in Standard. It is the kind of card that could shine if the meta slows down and lots of midrange and tap-out control decks are what you expect to face. Card advantage is always big in those matchups, and being able to get not just a card, but your best card, is big (especially with Thoughtseize being legal).
Yeah, the allied fetches, Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise are making every other KTK card look like sleepers in Modern, Legacy, and Vintage. Heck, Treasure Cruise looks like a sleeper compared to Dig Through Time in Modern. I think Sorin, Solemn Visitor is particularly underrated in Modern. He makes big flying tokens and singlehandedly hoses the Burn match-up, and for those reasons, I believe he will unseat Sorin, Lord of Innistrad.
All the charms.
Savage knukblade could see play in the RUG pyromancer deck.
Harderned scales will be a casual favorite and possible could make one or two decks a litle better in modern
Uter End is versatile.
that force spike with ferocious can become huge too.
Also, Seeker of the Way is a very annoying card to try and race. I could see it doing a surprising amount of work in a dedicated Prowess tempo deck.
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Both good calls. A lot of the other cards I am seeing mentioned (mythics, Ascenancies, Howl) seem like stretches as "sleepers" as I have seen them get plenty of attention. But these two seem like they could be more than just niche players in Standard, and I haven't seen a lot of lists with them yet.
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As the set goes on and we see more warriors potentially standard playable ones this card only gets better.
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- A creature you don't mind losing
- A Divination, or similar spell that scales well with being copied twice
- Howl in hand
- Enough mana to cast them (6 if using Divination)
- Howl needs to resolve
Most importantly, you then need to not be dead on board after investing all of that effort. In the above example, you'd almost always be better off following a different line of play such as going high quality creature into Aurelia or Zegana (and note - those two cards do not see play in Standard either), or just drop an Elspeth. (I know the two creatures I named are rotating but there's always very high impact 6 mana cards in Standard that amplify an already winning board position).
That's always the risk with value combos (i.e. combos that don't win the game but generate a big advantage). Your opponent can just go bigger back at you.
And this is coming from a person that actually advocated playtesting Reverberate in ISD-RTR standard as an anti-control value play (it counters their counters, and it can win you the game in response to your opponent casting Sphinx's Revelation as you draw your cards before they draw theirs).
My pick of possible sleeper is Wingmate Roc. The card matches up very well against Sarkhan, is on curve or just a little below as a "6/4 flier" for 5, and gains just enough life to put you ahead in races. Requiring raid isn't too much of an issue. I expect it to settle as the #2 mythic (behind Sarkhan) as there really isn't much else (Sorin seems just a little too fragile, and three colour creatures are seldom 4-ofs or even close to it).
As I said in an earlier post, I suspect I've broken Jeskai Ascendency in Modern. I used the Standard Ascendancy Storm thread and others' suggestions of Glittering Wish and Wind Zendikon as inspiration, and I've refined a deck with the explosiveness of Infect (I've gotten two Turn 2 wins so far against actual opponents), the general play style and likely the speed of Modern UR Storm (I regularly outrace Modern Affinity, both Storm decks cantrip, ramp, and produce CA like the dickens), and some of the resilience of Legacy TES (going off through one of Pod's hate bears is so easy with Glittering Wish for removal). I also get to roundhouse kick other devoted combo decks with Glittering Wish for Slaughter Games. It has a rough time against Delver, Twin, and Faeries, and even Jund and RG Tron can be uphill battles, but all those match-ups are definitely winnable.
...Well, maybe I've only broken Ascendancy as much as Melira Pod has broken Birthing Pod, but I've comboed off through Thoughtseize on combo pieces and removal on mana dorks. It's also fun to make Storm and Faeries behave completely neurotically. (Turn 2 Grapeshot on my mana dork and EOT Mistbind Clique vs. my 3 mana dorks, anyone?)
Personally I didn't mention the Mauler because he seemed to obviously powerful to count as a "sleeper".
Basically anything that's not fetchlands, Sorin, Sarkhan, or Mythic can be considered potentially a sleeper right now, as barely anything is worth more than a pack at the moment.
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Yeah...no. What makes Legacy TES so resilient is that they are able to beat decks that routinely interact with them with free counterspells, discard, 1 and 2 mana counterspells, etc. Any 'Jeskai Ascendancy' deck is all-in on that plan. The deck is literally just a pile of 1/1's, cantrips, and Jeskai Ascendancy. Modern Control decks will eat you for breakfast. I'd be surprised if you had as much as a 20% chance, and considering that while the decks aren't that great, people love to play them, so it's not like you'll be able to dodge them that often.
I am kinda expecting this to see play as a finisher in some black based control deck that also runs Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, but as it could likely only be a one-of, and since a trillion billion packs will get opened for fetchlands, demand might still never outstrip supply (this may be true of a lot of things).
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