Any deck competitive deck have to know how to survive wipe of any form. If you're playing a enchantment deck and this means game over, it's either the player's fault of the deck wasn't good to start with.
Mono Black Aggro survived board wipes by bestowing its creatures onto other creatures. Since the vast majority of MBA's post-rotation aggro creatures are all enchatments, this is like printing a 2CC instant speed "destroy all creatures and enchantments."
Whatever the case, this is a terrible reprint to be released right now IMO.
You have to remember control decks don't play green. You're not facing this and verdict on the same match up.
Aparently you didn't know Bant control was a deck.
Any deck competitive deck have to know how to survive wipe of any form. If you're playing a enchantment deck and this means game over, it's either the player's fault of the deck wasn't good to start with.
Mono Black Aggro survived board wipes by bestowing its creatures onto other creatures. Since the vast majority of MBA's post-rotation aggro creatures are all enchatments, this is like printing a 2CC instant speed "destroy all creatures and enchantments."
Whatever the case, this is a terrible reprint to be released right now IMO.
You have to remember control decks don't play green. You're not facing this and verdict on the same match up.
Aparently you didn't know Bant control was a deck.
I must admit giving us the first block with enchantment creatures and then making it so that it becomes a whole lot less competitive is really disheartening. We want to play with all the nifty things from theros block. I get that they thought about having this as a fail safe but really this is a bit too strong hate.
If you're playing B/G enchantments (like me) and aren't running Golgari charm to protect your enchantment creatures (like I do) maybe you should start.
If you're playing B/G enchantments (like me) and aren't running Golgari charm to protect your enchantment creatures (like I do) maybe you should start.
Mono Black Aggro survived board wipes by bestowing its creatures onto other creatures. Since the vast majority of MBA's post-rotation aggro creatures are all enchatments, this is like printing a 2CC instant speed "destroy all creatures and enchantments."
Whatever the case, this is a terrible reprint to be released right now IMO.
You have to remember control decks don't play green. You're not facing this and verdict on the same match up.
Aparently you didn't know Bant control was a deck.
Any deck competitive deck have to know how to survive wipe of any form. If you're playing a enchantment deck and this means game over, it's either the player's fault or the deck wasn't good to start with.
So much crying over this card. Learn to adapt and deal with it or just fold like a cheap wwe chair.
There's a huge difference over "learning to not overextend into a sweeper" and your opponent dropping plague wind at EoT or during combat. Junk constellation wasn't a huge power deck but it had the potential to at least be halfway viable before this reprint. Now it's unplayable trash and anyone who put the money into building it just saw a couple hundred bucks go up in smoke.
Just another reminder from wizards that playing things that aren't creatures is badwrongfun for magic.
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I'm actually rather happy this got printed honestly. It was something I was hoping would show up as a safety net just in case. Again, we don't know what kind of enchantments got made for Khans, or what that version of standard is going to look like. I'd rather people have an out just in case. If it's not needed *shrug* oh well. I agree with some of the people saying it's not too different from a lot of other board wipes (admittedly absurdly undercosted for the world it's going into) but we'll see.
I'm actually rather happy this got printed honestly. It was something I was hoping would show up as a safety net just in case. Again, we don't know what kind of enchantments got made for Khans, or what that version of standard is going to look like. I'd rather people have an out just in case. If it's not needed *shrug* oh well. I agree with some of the people saying it's not too different from a lot of other board wipes (admittedly absurdly undercosted for the world it's going into) but we'll see.
I think we all expected this effect to be printed, but more so in the form of something like a Tranquility reprint at best.
Any deck competitive deck have to know how to survive wipe of any form. If you're playing a enchantment deck and this means game over, it's either the player's fault or the deck wasn't good to start with.
So much crying over this card. Learn to adapt and deal with it or just fold like a cheap wwe chair.
There's a huge difference over "learning to not overextend into a sweeper" and your opponent dropping plague wind at EoT or during combat. Junk constellation wasn't a huge power deck but it had the potential to at least be halfway viable before this reprint. Now it's unplayable trash and anyone who put the money into building it just saw a couple hundred bucks go up in smoke.
Just another reminder from wizards that playing things that aren't creatures is badwrongfun for magic.
You're not forced to play only enchantment creatures, in any of the constellation decks. Doing so is even a mistake, as cards like back to nature are bound to exist (they are core set staple). Whoever is trying to play this deck, will now have to learn the balancing between commitment to a good strategy that is easy to disrupt, and a more generic plan. Same thing junk players had to learn last season.
Playing enchantment creatures IS playing creatures.
What is truly badwrongfun for magic is playing a deck that cannot be disrupted.
I agree I would rather see Tranquility over this. However, I'm not a professional mtg developer so I will trust their decision to reprint a super efficient hate card.
There's no doubt Esper and WU are big players but the other variants AREN'T that strong/common. the reason is that control players are torn between either a better land base to use cards heavier on white and blue costs (such as planar cleanse, quicken and flare) or the ability to use thoughtseize among other useful black SB cards.
Bant is not tier 1 for the mere fact that it's cousins (Esper and WU control) are.
There's no doubt Esper and WU are big players but the other variants AREN'T that strong/common. the reason is that control players are torn between either a better land base to use cards heavier on white and blue costs (such as planar cleanse, quicken and flare) or the ability to use thoughtseize among other useful black SB cards.
Bant is not tier 1 for the mere fact that it's cousins (Esper and WU control) are.
I'm gonna agree with you here. It feels like he's just trying to jam bant in with esper and UW control when they are FAR more established. Maybe bant will get big, but it's not there yet and certainly isn't a significant piece of the meta at the moment.
I think this bothers me most because constellation decks are not even remotely overpowered, but are a lot of fun to play. It's not like their existence was punishing to the meta. Now 1 card invalidates the entire core strategy of the deck? Well, it was fun for a couple months, at least...
The problem with this is it hits the wrong decks. BG Constellation is barely a deck, yet here is a 1G instant speed absolute hoser against that deck that is main deckable in a format with Coursers, Detention Spheres and Underworld Connections.
Meanwhile Mono Black Devotion got even stronger with Sign in Blood and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth with zero hosers printed against it. Imagine if they printed "1W, Instant, destroy all black permanents" instead?
The rich got richer and the poor got poorer.
Well, first off I'm not entirely sure Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth really benefits Monoblack. However, it's not an absolute hoser. It's not all THAT main deck able in a green deck (especially if it's running courser) and again, I'll say that it doesn't seem much worse than a Supreme Verdict
I think this bothers me most because constellation decks are not even remotely overpowered, but are a lot of fun to play. It's not like their existence was punishing to the meta. Now 1 card invalidates the entire core strategy of the deck? Well, it was fun for a couple months, at least...
I'm still not convinced it invalidates an entire strategy. If they'd made enchantment lands too perhaps but there are also significant counters for this. I suspect this will remain sideboard tech for a good long while unless some ridiculous enchants get made in Khans block.
The only way this card becomes huge in the meta is if Enchantment decks run rampant, right now if you run this in any green deck the card has the potential to screw you over also.
Example:
I control Courser of Kruphix my opponent controls Courser of Kruphix and some random enchantment like Mana Bloom. Is it really worth it to cast this spell? We both lose our Coursers and I get a 2 for 2 trade because I get rid of his Mana Bloom.
I realize very late game you can get insane value off this card by removing a full field of enchantments against some decks, but right now no deck is really heavy on enchantment except Naya Hexproof and BG Constellation. Naya Hexproof can already laugh at this card thanks to Boros Charm, BG has a tougher time but they have access too: Thoughtseize, Brain Maggot, and Duress.
I swear people cry about everything if this card didn't exist and we were facing some oppressive enchantment deck or something everyone would be crying for a card like this. Even still not every deck in the format runs green, so this card is not just the auto-include in the board even if enchantments rule the day after rotation.
I'll be honest - I was a bit pissed when I first saw this spoiled. I run a B/W Constellation deck that's really fun to play and I'd hate to see it hosed by such an efficient board sweep (every non-land permanent besides my bombs are enchantments). After thinking about it though, I'm really not too worried and I think the hype is unwarranted.
As others have said, there's really no big enchantment heavy decks around right now. I think the one seeing the most play is the B/G Constellation deck and they have Golgari Charm to protect their guys. Since there's no tier-1 enchantment deck running around, this card is significantly weaker and in all likelihood will end up costing the person who casts it some cards as well.
Thoughtseize and Brain Maggot are available to any deck with black, making this card a prime target to steal.
This is pretty much a SB only card, and probably a 2-of at most, meaning there's a decent chance that you won't even draw it after siding in.
Worst comes to worst, enchantment decks just bite the bullet and get wiped every so often. You can't beat everything all the time.
I think his argument was, he isn't going to cast BtN just to kill a mana bloom (since both have kourser).
The card is certainly a hoser to Enchantment decks, but to anyone who plays green; are you going to slot this into your sideboard come friday? I doubt it. Constellation decks just are not that common, or oppressive enough for people to want this in their SB. It could also be that they wanted BtN in the core set for limited purposes also. Red and White do have at least a significant number of auras, and a couple ways of searching them out...so it could be something they wanted in Limited also. They may have also not wanted it in KTK block, for Limited and Block constructed reasons.
BtN has a lot of targets in standard...but most of the time its 1 card in a deck. Domestication...Underworld Connections...Banishing Light...D. Sphere...Chained to the Rocks. It seems pretty narrow to sideboard in BtN...but maybe I am wrong.
I play white weenie and I'm going to splash green mana just to be able to run this out of my sb. UG, BUG, and RUG are most likely going to be the most played control decks.
I'm pretty excited for this card, I play Brave naya so I am generally not worried about any enchantments on my side of the board. A nice way to deal with courser's, master of the feast, d-sphere, connections etc.
The effect people think this is going to have on the format is way overblown. People still played unburial rites even though rest in peace existed. Affinity was still a top tier deck when oxidize, and (much) later kataki, war's wage existed. Burning-earth is still in the current standard, and barely does anything these days, and jund was still the best deck when it came out. These kinds of cards serve as an emergency blow-off valve if wizards happens to miss some overblown combo. Which doesn't exist. Enchantment decks are very durdly, especially ones that run mana-bloom (or sphere of safety), so I doubt anyone is actually going to run this in any significant quantities to either hose some random fringe tier-2 deck, or to hope to sweep up two coursers of kruphix with it (and without hitting their own).
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Bant is not a deck hahaha are you kiding ?
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
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C Kozilek C
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G Titania G
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GB MerenGB
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C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
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good luck playing golgari charm post rotation
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
I hope so. Spirit bond isn't bad for Junkchantments. Being able to make your blossoms indestructible through the game is pretty sweet.
By "a deck" I meant something that actually have a big chunk of the meta and thus requires you to worry about it.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
There's a huge difference over "learning to not overextend into a sweeper" and your opponent dropping plague wind at EoT or during combat. Junk constellation wasn't a huge power deck but it had the potential to at least be halfway viable before this reprint. Now it's unplayable trash and anyone who put the money into building it just saw a couple hundred bucks go up in smoke.
Just another reminder from wizards that playing things that aren't creatures is badwrongfun for magic.
Currently Playing:
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RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
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I think we all expected this effect to be printed, but more so in the form of something like a Tranquility reprint at best.
You're not forced to play only enchantment creatures, in any of the constellation decks. Doing so is even a mistake, as cards like back to nature are bound to exist (they are core set staple). Whoever is trying to play this deck, will now have to learn the balancing between commitment to a good strategy that is easy to disrupt, and a more generic plan. Same thing junk players had to learn last season.
Playing enchantment creatures IS playing creatures.
What is truly badwrongfun for magic is playing a deck that cannot be disrupted.
I agree I would rather see Tranquility over this. However, I'm not a professional mtg developer so I will trust their decision to reprint a super efficient hate card.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
UW/x Control is one of the big players in Standard so I don't know what you are talking about. The core cards in Elspeth, Sun's Champion, Supreme Verdict, Detention Sphere, Jace, Architect of Thought, Sphinx's Revelation, etc. are all shared no matter if they are on straight UW, Esper, UWR or Bant.
There's no doubt Esper and WU are big players but the other variants AREN'T that strong/common. the reason is that control players are torn between either a better land base to use cards heavier on white and blue costs (such as planar cleanse, quicken and flare) or the ability to use thoughtseize among other useful black SB cards.
Bant is not tier 1 for the mere fact that it's cousins (Esper and WU control) are.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
I'm gonna agree with you here. It feels like he's just trying to jam bant in with esper and UW control when they are FAR more established. Maybe bant will get big, but it's not there yet and certainly isn't a significant piece of the meta at the moment.
Well, first off I'm not entirely sure Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth really benefits Monoblack. However, it's not an absolute hoser. It's not all THAT main deck able in a green deck (especially if it's running courser) and again, I'll say that it doesn't seem much worse than a Supreme Verdict
I'm still not convinced it invalidates an entire strategy. If they'd made enchantment lands too perhaps but there are also significant counters for this. I suspect this will remain sideboard tech for a good long while unless some ridiculous enchants get made in Khans block.
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Example:
I control Courser of Kruphix my opponent controls Courser of Kruphix and some random enchantment like Mana Bloom. Is it really worth it to cast this spell? We both lose our Coursers and I get a 2 for 2 trade because I get rid of his Mana Bloom.
I realize very late game you can get insane value off this card by removing a full field of enchantments against some decks, but right now no deck is really heavy on enchantment except Naya Hexproof and BG Constellation. Naya Hexproof can already laugh at this card thanks to Boros Charm, BG has a tougher time but they have access too: Thoughtseize, Brain Maggot, and Duress.
I swear people cry about everything if this card didn't exist and we were facing some oppressive enchantment deck or something everyone would be crying for a card like this. Even still not every deck in the format runs green, so this card is not just the auto-include in the board even if enchantments rule the day after rotation.
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As others have said, there's really no big enchantment heavy decks around right now. I think the one seeing the most play is the B/G Constellation deck and they have Golgari Charm to protect their guys. Since there's no tier-1 enchantment deck running around, this card is significantly weaker and in all likelihood will end up costing the person who casts it some cards as well.
Thoughtseize and Brain Maggot are available to any deck with black, making this card a prime target to steal.
This is pretty much a SB only card, and probably a 2-of at most, meaning there's a decent chance that you won't even draw it after siding in.
Worst comes to worst, enchantment decks just bite the bullet and get wiped every so often. You can't beat everything all the time.
U/R Delver
The card is certainly a hoser to Enchantment decks, but to anyone who plays green; are you going to slot this into your sideboard come friday? I doubt it. Constellation decks just are not that common, or oppressive enough for people to want this in their SB. It could also be that they wanted BtN in the core set for limited purposes also. Red and White do have at least a significant number of auras, and a couple ways of searching them out...so it could be something they wanted in Limited also. They may have also not wanted it in KTK block, for Limited and Block constructed reasons.
BtN has a lot of targets in standard...but most of the time its 1 card in a deck. Domestication...Underworld Connections...Banishing Light...D. Sphere...Chained to the Rocks. It seems pretty narrow to sideboard in BtN...but maybe I am wrong.
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