So, I'm immediately surprised that there isn't already a thread to discuss this. I'll just blame it on being monday.
First thought off the top of my head is this: It's 1 part Aetherize 1 part Terminus(sorta), for the speed and cost of Evacuation. I'm sure someone who is more familiar with this effect can name the card that gives the opponent the option to choose top or bottom for each creature.
Most of all, I absolutely love this card immediately. The bigger the board state, the more draws you screw, or the more stuff that gets dumped on the bottom of the library. And being in standard with all of Theros' Scry effects, it could make for a ton of interesting and difficult decisions for the defending player.
I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this, hope most of you enjoy seeing this as much as I do.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sig By Rivenor
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
what separates this card from the rest of the evacuation type sweepers is that if you net a significant number of creatures, like 3 or 4. you also prevent them from drawing into anything that could mess with your board like removal. and even if they are tempted to search thier library for anything, they will lose their creatures for good after they shuffle.
If you run defensively oriented creatures at all, this is probably the best Wrath effect ever printed. Doesn't hit your Caratyid, doesn't hit your Wall of Frost, etc.
Time will tell if a deck exists that both wants to block and wants a Wrath effect. But if you have a Planeswalker down and your opponent feels they need to attack it, and you can spring this on them, you will usually win the game if you hit 2 or more creatures.
Aetherize was a one sided bounce. This is a one sided pseudo-wrath. It's definitely worth 1 more mana.
This will be a little harder to splash because it has UU in it's casting cost, but other than that, I love it. It fits right into my midrange prophet decks.
The card is really solid.
Everybody who compares it to Ætherize should finally stop it.
Aetherize = bounce = card disadvantage
Aether Whirlwind = back to the library = no card disadvantage, if two card creatures get hit even card advantage
Seems like a strong option in a potential UG midrange build that has Caryatids/Coursers it wants to keep on the board and Kioras that it wants to protect. Maybe too narrow to play many in the main, but definitely a potential SB card.
This is exactly my read on the card. I play bant mid-range, of which I found I pretty much have to play 4 verdicts in order to establish the time and space to start dropping bombs. This is awesome, my carytids and coarsers will now happily survive and I should be able to live long enough to start dropping archangles, insta wurms and more without verdict.
The card is really solid.
Everybody who compares it to Ætherize should finally stop it.
Aetherize = bounce = card disadvantage
Aether Whirlwind = back to the library = no card disadvantage, if two card creatures get hit even card advantage
It is really that simple.
except it has the same timing restrictions as Ætherize and just like Ætherize cannot permanently remove relevant threats. Why would control want to play a spell which might as well be a sorcery and does not actually remove threats. You're better off just casting an opportunity if you want CA because it will draw you into cards that actually remove threats.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Check out my Sales 50% OFF everything for the next 48 hours.
The card is really solid.
Everybody who compares it to Ætherize should finally stop it.
Aetherize = bounce = card disadvantage
Aether Whirlwind = back to the library = no card disadvantage, if two card creatures get hit even card advantage
It is really that simple.
except it has the same timing restrictions as Ætherize and just like Ætherize cannot permanently remove relevant threats. Why would control want to play a spell which might as well be a sorcery and does not actually remove threats. You're better off just casting an opportunity if you want CA because it will draw you into cards that actually remove threats.
Funny because do you know which card most UW/x Control decks run? Azorius Charm. It has the same effect that this has only for a single creature.
Time is all that you need when playing control. If they choose to put them to the top they have to draw those cards again turn after turn and you know what is coming and can hold countermagic up and if they put them to the bottom those cards are dealt with unless people want to argue that Terminus and Hallowed Burial are not removal either.
To quote Ben Bleiweiss from SCG on the card:
This card just absolutely wrecks decks that attack with 3+ creatures a turn. I compare this very favorably to Evacuation, which saw a good amount of Standard play whenever it was legal. Ætherspouts just creates a lose-lose situation for your opponent (they sacrifice their creatures to the bottom of the deck, or 1+ draw steps). I expect this to see a good amount of Standard play, as it may be one of the best Wrath effects in the format.
Don't mistake me for saying that this card is like the best card ever but people in here are seriously underestimating this card comparing it to a simple mass bounce spell which is in an entirely different league.
I think the naysayers will quickly open their eyes when they get blown out by the card for the first time.
Important EDIT: The Spoiler has renamed it Aetherspouts.
Also, I would think instant speed makes this a choice over Whelming wave in most cases, however having a split may help a ton. I love the interactions with Ashiok, for sure. I already love Ashiok as a UB player, and may actually be able to put my whole playset in with Jace, Architect of Thought Rolls out with no apparent replaceent(Guildpact is obviously a non control archetype).
I actually enjoy on a personal level that you guys are giving this so much kudos AND comparing it to Aetherize, I once had a player on MWS turn 1 Thought Seize me, saw [c]Aetherize]/c], made a rude comment about "playing bad cards", and dropped. The whole experience never sat well with me. I think cards like this are outstanding in an environment in T2 that is so creature heavy, and things like Convoke, and the new block appearing to be creature based in flavor, looks like this has promise for those of us that would like to use it.
Sig By Rivenor
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
Funny because do you know which card most UW/x Control decks run? Azorius Charm. It has the same effect that this has only for a single creature. Azourious
Azorius Charm also only cost 2 mana so you can force players to miss land drops in the early game when it is relevant and it can cycle it's self in the late game if it's not useful.
I think this is probably where our differences in opinions lie. I do not think time is all you need when playing control. In fact I think that this element has only recently become essential to control past the early game because of sphinx's Revelation and how well it scales. Traditionally all control needs are efficient answers which have a side effect of nenthening the game and a win condition. Turbo fog is the deck that only needs time. The way I see it the only reason control games take so long is because their win conditions generally take a long time which they have because their opponents are under control.
If they choose to put them to the top they have to draw those cards again turn after turn and you know what is coming and can hold countermagic up and if they put them to the bottom those cards are dealt with unless people want to argue that Terminus and Hallowed Burial are not removal either.
This is not a terminus type of effect. Terminus like effects are one of the most permanent answers to creatures. Allowing someone to put a card on top of their library is very much not permanent. Effects that put cards on top of the library are not removal. They are tempo plays that provide neutral or positive CA.
To quote Ben Bleiweiss from SCG on the card:
This card just absolutely wrecks decks that attack with 3+ creatures a turn. I compare this very favorably to Evacuation, which saw a good amount of Standard play whenever it was legal. Ætherspouts just creates a lose-lose situation for your opponent (they sacrifice their creatures to the bottom of the deck, or 1+ draw steps). I expect this to see a good amount of Standard play, as it may be one of the best Wrath effects in the format.
Very few decks in the current meta attack with 3+ creatures against a control deck let alone cast 3 creatures. Aggro is the only archetype that would want to do this. I mean yes this card is reasonable good against aggro but I would rather use a wrath effect and not let them set up their next 0-3 draws. Aggro decks are terrible in top deck mode and putting creatures on top of their library is going to help their draws. I mean cards like evacuation have been good in the past because you can play them EOT and they are blue, but they have usually taken a back seat to actually bourdwhips like damnation, wrath of god, and even pyroclasm. I know this really isn't addressing your argument but SCG always over hypes new cards because the make money by selling product.
Don't mistake me for saying that this card is like the best card ever but people in here are seriously underestimating this card comparing it to a simple mass bounce spell which is in an entirely different league.
I think the naysayers will quickly open their eyes when they get blown out by the card for the first time.
I think that they actually perform a very similar role however AEtherize is trash that I would never consider playing around while aetherspouts is actually worth playing around even if I'm less afraid of it than wrath effects. I'm not arguing that it's not powerful, just that it plays like aetherize. Saying it plays like aetherize therefore it's bad is not a valid argument but it still has many of the disadvantages that aetherize has namely
1) not permanently removing threats
2) only playable during combat
3) only hits attacking/offensive creatures
I'm sure decks will use it but only if they don't have access to a true board wipe or rely heavily on creatures of their own.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Check out my Sales 50% OFF everything for the next 48 hours.
Funny because do you know which card most UW/x Control decks run? Azorius Charm. It has the same effect that this has only for a single creature. Azourious
Azorius Charm also only cost 2 mana so you can force players to miss land drops in the early game when it is relevant and it can cycle it's self in the late game if it's not useful.
Prognostic Sphinx Can Pitch dead cards late game to protect itself. Great card to stabilize.
I think this is probably where our differences in opinions lie. I do not think time is all you need when playing control. In fact I think that this element has only recently become essential to control past the early game because of sphinx's Revelation and how well it scales. Traditionally all control needs are efficient answers which have a side effect of nenthening the game and a win condition. Turbo fog is the deck that only needs time. The way I see it the only reason control games take so long is because their win conditions generally take a long time which they have because their opponents are under control.
Agreed, except a lot of control decks do essentially need time to get to that win con. And to be fair, Turbo Fog is a control deck.
If they choose to put them to the top they have to draw those cards again turn after turn and you know what is coming and can hold countermagic up and if they put them to the bottom those cards are dealt with unless people want to argue that Terminus and Hallowed Burial are not removal either.
This is not a terminus type of effect. Terminus like effects are one of the most permanent answers to creatures. Allowing someone to put a card on top of their library is very much not permanent. Effects that put cards on top of the library are not removal. They are tempo plays that provide neutral or positive CA.
You can make it a Terminus like effect, however, You're right, it doesn't necessarily do that on it's own. If you don't have Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver or some other way to support this thing, then they just go back on top and come back out to the battlefield later.
To quote Ben Bleiweiss from SCG on the card:
This card just absolutely wrecks decks that attack with 3+ creatures a turn. I compare this very favorably to Evacuation, which saw a good amount of Standard play whenever it was legal. Ætherspouts just creates a lose-lose situation for your opponent (they sacrifice their creatures to the bottom of the deck, or 1+ draw steps). I expect this to see a good amount of Standard play, as it may be one of the best Wrath effects in the format.
Very few decks in the current meta attack with 3+ creatures against a control deck let alone cast 3 creatures. Aggro is the only archetype that would want to do this. I mean yes this card is reasonable good against aggro but I would rather use a wrath effect and not let them set up their next 0-3 draws. Aggro decks are terrible in top deck mode and putting creatures on top of their library is going to help their draws. I mean cards like evacuation have been good in the past because you can play them EOT and they are blue, but they have usually taken a back seat to actually bourdwhips like damnation, wrath of god, and even pyroclasm. I know this really isn't addressing your argument but SCG always over hypes new cards because the make money by selling product.
Are we talking about T2? The format that has very threatening decks like Mono U Dev(creature based, small fliers and big finishers, unblockable with Thassa), Mono B Dev(Board full of Mutavaults and Pack Rats?), Jund/RG Monsters(nearly all creatures), Mono R or Mono B Aggro, And I've even seen Naya Monsters pop up(replace Jund's Black for white to get things like Loxodon Smiter, Voice of Resurgence, and Fleecemane Lion). The only non-creature based decks I've seen with high placements are UB/UBx Control and Bant or even sometimes Naya Superfriends.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sig By Rivenor
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
I was one of the people who compared this to Aetherize (even though I love the card). But I'm beginning to rethink that and I'm thinking I might like this more than the new disc that's getting released.
Since M15 was released, I die a little inside whenever someone plays this card. It wrecks tokens, too. And when KTK drops, I predict token decks will be everywhere.
Since M15 was released, I die a little inside whenever someone plays this card. It wrecks tokens, too. And when KTK drops, I predict token decks will be everywhere.
I love this card. Of course, I run a Bant Midrange/Control Superfriends deck, and aggro players cry whenever I play it. Whenever I play it, I always ask, "Top or bottom?" At first, the secondary implications slipped my mind...
I've stopped so many Stormbreath Dragons and Mistcutter Hydras with this card it's not even funny.
Since M15 was released, I die a little inside whenever someone plays this card. It wrecks tokens, too. And when KTK drops, I predict token decks will be everywhere.
I love this card. Of course, I run a Bant Midrange/Control Superfriends deck, and aggro players cry whenever I play it. Whenever I play it, I always ask, "Top or bottom?" At first, the secondary implications slipped my mind...
I've stopped so many Stormbreath Dragons and Mistcutter Hydras with this card it's not even funny.
Some people are using it on MonoU Tron, i run 2x on SB
Its a good mainboard standard card and good sideboard modern card
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries Legacy:BRx Renimator Playing right now:Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
I had a question regarding Aetherize. Since it doesn't target a specific card, would it be able to send Mistcutter Hydra to your opponents library? Mistcutter has protection from blue, but it's not being targeted.
First thought off the top of my head is this: It's 1 part Aetherize 1 part Terminus(sorta), for the speed and cost of Evacuation. I'm sure someone who is more familiar with this effect can name the card that gives the opponent the option to choose top or bottom for each creature.
Most of all, I absolutely love this card immediately. The bigger the board state, the more draws you screw, or the more stuff that gets dumped on the bottom of the library. And being in standard with all of Theros' Scry effects, it could make for a ton of interesting and difficult decisions for the defending player.
I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this, hope most of you enjoy seeing this as much as I do.
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
but the card has to show more soo that we say play this over whelming wave in Standard. (wave can bounce mana dorks and other things...)
I expect Aether Whirlwind to see far more play than Whelming Wave because it tucks, is instant speed, and is only 1 more mana.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
Tuck vs Unsummon is very much worth 1 additional mana.
Time will tell if a deck exists that both wants to block and wants a Wrath effect. But if you have a Planeswalker down and your opponent feels they need to attack it, and you can spring this on them, you will usually win the game if you hit 2 or more creatures.
This will be a little harder to splash because it has UU in it's casting cost, but other than that, I love it. It fits right into my midrange prophet decks.
Everybody who compares it to Ætherize should finally stop it.
Aetherize = bounce = card disadvantage
Aether Whirlwind = back to the library = no card disadvantage, if two card creatures get hit even card advantage
It is really that simple.
except it has the same timing restrictions as Ætherize and just like Ætherize cannot permanently remove relevant threats. Why would control want to play a spell which might as well be a sorcery and does not actually remove threats. You're better off just casting an opportunity if you want CA because it will draw you into cards that actually remove threats.
Funny because do you know which card most UW/x Control decks run? Azorius Charm. It has the same effect that this has only for a single creature.
Time is all that you need when playing control. If they choose to put them to the top they have to draw those cards again turn after turn and you know what is coming and can hold countermagic up and if they put them to the bottom those cards are dealt with unless people want to argue that Terminus and Hallowed Burial are not removal either.
To quote Ben Bleiweiss from SCG on the card:
This card just absolutely wrecks decks that attack with 3+ creatures a turn. I compare this very favorably to Evacuation, which saw a good amount of Standard play whenever it was legal. Ætherspouts just creates a lose-lose situation for your opponent (they sacrifice their creatures to the bottom of the deck, or 1+ draw steps). I expect this to see a good amount of Standard play, as it may be one of the best Wrath effects in the format.
Don't mistake me for saying that this card is like the best card ever but people in here are seriously underestimating this card comparing it to a simple mass bounce spell which is in an entirely different league.
I think the naysayers will quickly open their eyes when they get blown out by the card for the first time.
Also, I would think instant speed makes this a choice over Whelming wave in most cases, however having a split may help a ton. I love the interactions with Ashiok, for sure. I already love Ashiok as a UB player, and may actually be able to put my whole playset in with Jace, Architect of Thought Rolls out with no apparent replaceent(Guildpact is obviously a non control archetype).
I actually enjoy on a personal level that you guys are giving this so much kudos AND comparing it to Aetherize, I once had a player on MWS turn 1 Thought Seize me, saw [c]Aetherize]/c], made a rude comment about "playing bad cards", and dropped. The whole experience never sat well with me. I think cards like this are outstanding in an environment in T2 that is so creature heavy, and things like Convoke, and the new block appearing to be creature based in flavor, looks like this has promise for those of us that would like to use it.
Also, Whelming Wave works great in conjuction with Omenspeaker. Looking forward to Peel From Reality being back in standard, just sad we have no Snapcaster Mage to go with it. (Rapid Hybridization + Snappy + Peel = Blue Shenanigans!)
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
Azorius Charm also only cost 2 mana so you can force players to miss land drops in the early game when it is relevant and it can cycle it's self in the late game if it's not useful.
I think this is probably where our differences in opinions lie. I do not think time is all you need when playing control. In fact I think that this element has only recently become essential to control past the early game because of sphinx's Revelation and how well it scales. Traditionally all control needs are efficient answers which have a side effect of nenthening the game and a win condition. Turbo fog is the deck that only needs time. The way I see it the only reason control games take so long is because their win conditions generally take a long time which they have because their opponents are under control.
This is not a terminus type of effect. Terminus like effects are one of the most permanent answers to creatures. Allowing someone to put a card on top of their library is very much not permanent. Effects that put cards on top of the library are not removal. They are tempo plays that provide neutral or positive CA.
Very few decks in the current meta attack with 3+ creatures against a control deck let alone cast 3 creatures. Aggro is the only archetype that would want to do this. I mean yes this card is reasonable good against aggro but I would rather use a wrath effect and not let them set up their next 0-3 draws. Aggro decks are terrible in top deck mode and putting creatures on top of their library is going to help their draws. I mean cards like evacuation have been good in the past because you can play them EOT and they are blue, but they have usually taken a back seat to actually bourdwhips like damnation, wrath of god, and even pyroclasm. I know this really isn't addressing your argument but SCG always over hypes new cards because the make money by selling product.
I think that they actually perform a very similar role however AEtherize is trash that I would never consider playing around while aetherspouts is actually worth playing around even if I'm less afraid of it than wrath effects. I'm not arguing that it's not powerful, just that it plays like aetherize. Saying it plays like aetherize therefore it's bad is not a valid argument but it still has many of the disadvantages that aetherize has namely
1) not permanently removing threats
2) only playable during combat
3) only hits attacking/offensive creatures
I'm sure decks will use it but only if they don't have access to a true board wipe or rely heavily on creatures of their own.
Prognostic Sphinx Can Pitch dead cards late game to protect itself. Great card to stabilize.
Agreed, except a lot of control decks do essentially need time to get to that win con. And to be fair, Turbo Fog is a control deck.
You can make it a Terminus like effect, however, You're right, it doesn't necessarily do that on it's own. If you don't have Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver or some other way to support this thing, then they just go back on top and come back out to the battlefield later.
Are we talking about T2? The format that has very threatening decks like Mono U Dev(creature based, small fliers and big finishers, unblockable with Thassa), Mono B Dev(Board full of Mutavaults and Pack Rats?), Jund/RG Monsters(nearly all creatures), Mono R or Mono B Aggro, And I've even seen Naya Monsters pop up(replace Jund's Black for white to get things like Loxodon Smiter, Voice of Resurgence, and Fleecemane Lion). The only non-creature based decks I've seen with high placements are UB/UBx Control and Bant or even sometimes Naya Superfriends.
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
You can check out my artwork here and here
I love this card. Of course, I run a Bant Midrange/Control Superfriends deck, and aggro players cry whenever I play it. Whenever I play it, I always ask, "Top or bottom?" At first, the secondary implications slipped my mind...
I've stopped so many Stormbreath Dragons and Mistcutter Hydras with this card it's not even funny.
JERK!
Its a good mainboard standard card and good sideboard modern card
RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron
R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries
Legacy:BRx Renimator
Playing right now: Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper