So Hornet Queen is back in a standard-legal set. I'm... not sure what to think. I love the card, but for seven mana, especially that green splash, is six power really enough? Even divided into so many bodies?
Are there good ways to reanimate this? If there are, I could definitely see it. I suppose as a Whip of Erebos target it's actually not too bad, which I guess could give it a place in standard dredge-ish things? but I can't think of any particularly good spells that'll keep this on the battlefield.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I would imagine its playability ultimately boils down to the flying (with the extra utility being bonus). If there is a green deck that needs the evasion it'll work, and whether or not that deck exists depends on the other cards that might be in it.
It is a potential side card in a variety of situations at least.
Mightn't the denial of flying to green be . . . dated?
Birds, bees, and possibly faeries. I know blue is the flying color but I don't see why green can't have a few. You do get beasts in red and white, too.
Would it be such a catastrophe?
I think Hornet Queen is here to test this. They tend to baby-step something to see if even an overcosted version would break the game.
I sure doubt it will.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I think there are two things that need to be considered for if it can be mainboarded, though: The popularity of control decks (board wipes really hurt this card, and until RtR rotates, dSphere essentially 1for4s off of this), and the popularity of decks that run Bile Blight main board (again, essentially a 1for4 on the tokens).
If those are relatively manageable, I wouldn't be surprised to see the card as at least a one of in Green devotion.
This creature is amazing, its a great Whip target, or any other reanimator spell as a matter of fact, this will see play and give people nightmare. Mark my words.
Kind of want to ramp to this and drop big fatty Urd brick for near free with all my insect tokens....maybe the christmas land of EDH will allow such a desire - insect tribal? I doubt standard will want me to do that...sadly...
Clue: The only reason anybody played Hurricane was because it did direct damage. It was green's only wincon in a format where creatures were so friggin' weak. And you know? Direct damage to players...is red now.
You have nostalgia beer goggles.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
This is excellent for Green Devotion decks. This is a REAL answer for Desecration Demon. Arbor Colossus just doesn't cut it.
Yes and with Elvish Mystic, Sylvan Caryatid, and the new Nissa, Worldwaker going to be around for the next year or so, a turn 4-5 Hornet Queen isn't impossible either going forward.
Clue: The only reason anybody played Hurricane was because it did direct damage. It was green's only wincon in a format where creatures were so friggin' weak. And you know? Direct damage to players...is red now.
You have nostalgia beer goggles.
Calm down bro. He probably mixed it up with Windstorm. No need to overreact.
Okay, so we now have the new convoke reanimator spell. That, whip, and rescue from the Underworld?
I think it's possible we see some sort of reanimator deck that could want this. I'm also inclined to agree with people saying that devotion to green would want this. Keep in mind that Obelisk of Urd isn't the only anthem effect around right now.
arguably, but paying 7 mana for a single 2/2 flying deathtouch creature is insanely underwhelming.
Well, in that removal case you are paying 7 mana for a single 2/2 deathtouch flyer, 2-3 mana of theirs and one of their cards. Seems like a tad better deal then?
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Have fun with it as long as bile blight is in standard.
Seems pretty good with convoke though. Only problem is it costs as much as an expensive convoke spell.
wow the old Doom Blade VS creature debate again ?
A creature is always better than a removal.. a removal does NOTHING on its own, it's a reactive card.
People run like what... 6 to 10 removal MAX in their decks... and many decks run 20 and more creatures.... saying that a creature is bad because it dies to removal proves you know nothing about the bases of this game.
Have fun with it as long as bile blight is in standard.
Seems pretty good with convoke though. Only problem is it costs as much as an expensive convoke spell.
wow the old Doom Blade VS creature debate again ?
A creature is always better than a removal.. a removal does NOTHING on its own, it's a reactive card.
People run like what... 6 to 10 removal MAX in their decks... and many decks run 20 and more creatures.... saying that a creature is bad because it dies to removal proves you know nothing about the bases of this game.
I mean, I think it really all depends on the popularity of drown in sorrow/bile blight/anger of the gods. If they're highly popular cards that we see mainboarded in a fairly large number of standard decks, Hornet Queen will probably have to be relegated to the sideboard. If they aren't, though, I could easily see Hornet Queen being mainboarded.
There are two ways to run this card - as a defensive card or as an offensive card.
Offensive - this is where you run a deck with anthems so that you're not getting 6 power, but instead 11, 16, or 21. The following anthems love this guy: Collective Blessings Dictate of Heliod Paragon of Eternal Wilds Hall of Triumph Spear of Heliod Master Biomancer
One up side of this is that if you get some of these out, your tokens start dodging even some of the more popular forms of mass removal. Another up side is that if they don't have effective mass removal, you win.
Defensive - you're worried about enemy attackers, so you just shove this guy in your deck. As a bonus, he blocks flyers too. The biggest problem with this is that he costs 7 - even a ramp deck can't guarantee 7 mana before you die. Then mass removal, first strike, double strike, trample, and non-creature wincons all come into play.
I built a deck a couple months ago that ramped very hard and that played 4 collective blessings + 4 Tronstani's summoner's. The deck was alot of fun, and it won more often than I expected. I believe that the Hornet queen is a much better creature for this strategy than the summoner because 5 4/4 deathtouch fliers are going to be nearly impossible to deal with, whereas the 4 creatures the summoner provided could mostly be blocked by existing ground units.
Are there good ways to reanimate this? If there are, I could definitely see it. I suppose as a Whip of Erebos target it's actually not too bad, which I guess could give it a place in standard dredge-ish things? but I can't think of any particularly good spells that'll keep this on the battlefield.
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Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop
(Given Maro's stated fear of all flying hymenoptera...)
On phasing:
It is a potential side card in a variety of situations at least.
Birds, bees, and possibly faeries. I know blue is the flying color but I don't see why green can't have a few. You do get beasts in red and white, too.
Would it be such a catastrophe?
I think Hornet Queen is here to test this. They tend to baby-step something to see if even an overcosted version would break the game.
I sure doubt it will.
"OH GOD MY BRAIN IS EXPLOADING AT HOW BAD THE ART IS ON MY OWN CARD"
-A friend's first impression of Ancestral Recall
10/10, I tapped.
If those are relatively manageable, I wouldn't be surprised to see the card as at least a one of in Green devotion.
And bring back the lace cycle and bands with other too!
Clue: The only reason anybody played Hurricane was because it did direct damage. It was green's only wincon in a format where creatures were so friggin' weak. And you know? Direct damage to players...is red now.
You have nostalgia beer goggles.
On phasing:
Yes and with Elvish Mystic, Sylvan Caryatid, and the new Nissa, Worldwaker going to be around for the next year or so, a turn 4-5 Hornet Queen isn't impossible either going forward.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
Calm down bro. He probably mixed it up with Windstorm. No need to overreact.
I think it's possible we see some sort of reanimator deck that could want this. I'm also inclined to agree with people saying that devotion to green would want this. Keep in mind that Obelisk of Urd isn't the only anthem effect around right now.
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Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop
I'd still call it a good deal, honestly. I think the only time it's not a good deal for us is if we're not running anything else.
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Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop
Seems pretty good with convoke though. Only problem is it costs as much as an expensive convoke spell.
Well, in that removal case you are paying 7 mana for a single 2/2 deathtouch flyer, 2-3 mana of theirs and one of their cards. Seems like a tad better deal then?
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wow the old Doom Blade VS creature debate again ?
A creature is always better than a removal.. a removal does NOTHING on its own, it's a reactive card.
People run like what... 6 to 10 removal MAX in their decks... and many decks run 20 and more creatures.... saying that a creature is bad because it dies to removal proves you know nothing about the bases of this game.
you're right, drown in sorrow kills them all too
Offensive - this is where you run a deck with anthems so that you're not getting 6 power, but instead 11, 16, or 21. The following anthems love this guy:
Collective Blessings
Dictate of Heliod
Paragon of Eternal Wilds
Hall of Triumph
Spear of Heliod
Master Biomancer
One up side of this is that if you get some of these out, your tokens start dodging even some of the more popular forms of mass removal. Another up side is that if they don't have effective mass removal, you win.
Defensive - you're worried about enemy attackers, so you just shove this guy in your deck. As a bonus, he blocks flyers too. The biggest problem with this is that he costs 7 - even a ramp deck can't guarantee 7 mana before you die. Then mass removal, first strike, double strike, trample, and non-creature wincons all come into play.
I built a deck a couple months ago that ramped very hard and that played 4 collective blessings + 4 Tronstani's summoner's. The deck was alot of fun, and it won more often than I expected. I believe that the Hornet queen is a much better creature for this strategy than the summoner because 5 4/4 deathtouch fliers are going to be nearly impossible to deal with, whereas the 4 creatures the summoner provided could mostly be blocked by existing ground units.