It seems like a fun idea. A set built for drafting, with some cool draft-only mechanics.
Except the price point on a couple cards (Exploration, Misdirection) are fairly high, but it is cards like Council's Judgement and Dack that are bothering me.
If the prices on the individual cards go way up, the pack prices will jump as well. I've heard of a couple shops where the price per pack is expected to be $10-12. That makes drafting it prohibitively expensive for almost all players who it was intended to reach. Boxes are currently going for between $120 and $150.
Thoughts?
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
when one store start to sells it for MSRP or bellow and players see it and start to buy conspiracy only of this store and soo the other stores start to sink stock of conspiracy boxes all the stores will move to MSRP...
Conspiracy will be printed to meet the demand.
The initial suply is low ( 4 per store) but then we will have plent of conspiracy bosters to draft
WOTC sold my shop 18 boxes, and I was able to buy from two other distributors. I have a good supply to start with and am expecting to be able to buy more from Wizards directly. I think we'll have a pretty good supply of this set. I'm pre-selling boxes locally for $99. I hope other shops follow suit and sell it as a regularly priced set.
Not seeing this. All the local stores are selling packs at MSRP (or whatever the acronym is) and drafts are $12-$15 until product runs out.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
It seems like a fun idea. A set built for drafting, with some cool draft-only mechanics.
Except the price point on a couple cards (Exploration, Misdirection) are fairly high, but it is cards like Council's Judgement and Dack that are bothering me.
If the prices on the individual cards go way up, the pack prices will jump as well. I've heard of a couple shops where the price per pack is expected to be $10-12. That makes drafting it prohibitively expensive for almost all players who it was intended to reach. Boxes are currently going for between $120 and $150.
Thoughts?
The stores in your area are then apparently run by people who are either deliberately jacking up the prices because they are ********s, or people who read WAY to much into internet rumors. My LGS is confident that it can draft Conspiracy for a month, and it will be MSRP.
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Nyarlathotep must all things be told
for he is the messenger between the spheres
and the traveler between the realms of the living and the dead.
He shall summon forth the ancient ones
and wake them from their deathly slumber
then shall the elder signs be shattered. Trade Thread
I can get them at 120$ as well. In shop-terms that's half-off, but they just reserve a highly jacked-up price if the product sells really well - yea they do cash-grabs at Modern Masters too, currently selling for ~600$ a 24-booster box. Mind you those you can get off eBay for ~400$ including shipping.
The shop is still good at new product as they usually run this discounted prize that's fairly similar to MSRP but sometimes they are jacked a little up due to my country's high tax-rate.
For reference; ChannelFireball is selling at 120$.
This didn't seem to be much of an issue with Modern Masters
Did you miss putting in some form of sarcasm?
Boxes are pre-selling in Canada anywhere from $125-$200.
Personally, I don't trust WoTC to make good on their word to print more if the demand suits, and even if they did it'd still be hard to get them in Canada because of the policy (rightly so) on shipping sealed product across borders.
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Level 1 Judge - Altruistic Community Service.
My Modern decks: B/R/G Living End G/R/B G/R Tron R/G U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
I for one am glad there's a few other high $ cards in the set. I dread the thought of how expensive Dack Fayden (who will definitely be played in Legacy and Vintage) would be if he was the only chase card in this set...
The fact that there are solid eternal format staples in the set including at least one potential new power card in Dack and the fact that there are many new and old EDH staples and chances to open foil versions is sure to drive prices somewhat. So I think that many places (especially those of us outside the US who wizards screws over a fair bit) will end up with higher than msrp prices. That said I doubt it'll be too bad wizards should print to demand and the set is no Modern Masters.
Basically:
MM- lottery ticket with a chance at insane wins (foil Goyf but a also plenty of cards like Bob, Clique etc. worth way more than even the inflated value of the packs) and with guaranteed foil and hopefully a few value commons/uncommons even if you miss (not enough to get pack value but even a miss with MM should give you something to recoup some of the cost).
CON- lottery ticket with chance of a solid win (some good stuff but foil Dack Faden aside the rest isn't even normal goyf level) and with the possibility of an absolute miss (draft format only rares/uncommons etc. resulting in a zero value pack is a real possibility).
Problem is there are a lot of cards yet to be spoiled. There could be pretty crazy bombs we haven't seen yet. My lgs is at 99 per box. Is it worth it? IDK time will tell. Anyone who wants to make a cube well yeah. EDH players almost certain. If some crazy stuff gets reprinted well then be prepared for a price spike.
Problem is there are a lot of cards yet to be spoiled. There could be pretty crazy bombs we haven't seen yet. My lgs is at 99 per box. Is it worth it? IDK time will tell. Anyone who wants to make a cube well yeah. EDH players almost certain. If some crazy stuff gets reprinted well then be prepared for a price spike.
I personally felt justified in spending $100 on a box mainly for three reasons:
1- The number of money cards at lower rarities. StP, FoF, and Brainstorm are cards most people could use a few of,
and cards like Counterspell, Sol Ring, Regrowth, and Chain Lightning may very well be present, as well.
2- The small size of the set makes it very easy to get close to a complete set from a single box.
You'll likely just be missing 6-7 Mythics, 2-4 Rares, and maybe an Uncommon or two.
3- we're still missing ~13 Rares and ~4 Mythics, which could easily include another gem or two
like Demonic Tutor, Sneak Attack, Natural Order, or Karn Liberated. I'm betting we get at least one of those.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I am along the same line of thinking as you but I am playing devils advocate. Foil brainstorms will be 15-20 dollar commons for sure. I think demonic tutor is a strong possibility. Stifle is a strong possibility. I feel like another planeswalker will be in it as well although I am not sure it is Karn though Karn and LIlly are going to get reprints if the prices keep going up on them.
This didn't seem to be much of an issue with Modern Masters
That's because MM (Mostly Moronic) was way worse, at least this time we are not getting a "limited print" that sends people into a frenzy. I still have some lingering hostility for how poorly that product line was handled.
I can see what OP has said, and we do have some cause for concerns, for sure. This set looks very much like CMDR2013, where Mind Seize, namely True-Name Nemesis solely took down itself from shelves and send prices rocketing.
Empathogen has already mentioned money uncommons like Brainstorm (likely to be uncommon), Swords to Plowshares, perhaps FoF, etc. Furthermore, we have eternal casual favorites in Exploration, Rout, and Misdirection.
Combine the fact that we do not have the full spoiler, thanks to the very convenient "rescheduling" by wizards. I'm still figuring out whether this move was a brain fart, a dig at hoarders/speculators, or simply buying time for LGS to confirm their preorders.
Either way, it's not looking good. Look at the preorder price of Dack Fayden. Overrated card IMO. Definitely safe to print for modern and standard. I hate their lame excuse that it's pushed.
This didn't seem to be much of an issue with Modern Masters
That's because MM (Mostly Moronic) was way worse, at least this time we are not getting a "limited print" that sends people into a frenzy. I still have some lingering hostility for how poorly that product line was handled.
WotC was afraid of another chronicles, they vastly underrated how many people would get into modern after modern masters.
I think you are right modern masters got a lot of people into the format. Along with the reprints that came after it there was a huge spike in players. I don't think they were ever going to have a chronicles on their hands. I don't even think anyone is still around from those days when Wizards was a independent company. I do think there is something to the dig at speculators and lgs screwing people with prices. Most lgs I know of ordered a bunch of the set with out knowing what would be in it. Most are selling between 95-110 and I am sure they are playing it safe. All this set needs is 5-10 really good/money cards and there will be a mini frenzy. Not on the scale of modern masters but still enough to push the price of a box up 30-40 dollars. I know people foaming at the mouth for foil brainstorm. Even if printed at common a foil will likely be 15-20 dollars.
This didn't seem to be much of an issue with Modern Masters
That's because MM (Mostly Moronic) was way worse, at least this time we are not getting a "limited print" that sends people into a frenzy. I still have some lingering hostility for how poorly that product line was handled.
WotC was afraid of another chronicles, they vastly underrated how many people would get into modern after modern masters.
True, but to be honest I think they should have had a plan for a possible success.
So now that we have the full spoiler, what do you think will Happen with booster prices?
I think that wizards might have done a good Job at this Set, as there're not enough cards that would pretain good value, so i don't think that this will ever be a good Game for horders and speculators.
And i think that those cards would never hurt in an unconservatove Print Run.
I'd say they did a good job too. The set has some goodies, but not enough high money ones to make people hoard.
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
when one store start to sells it for MSRP or bellow and players see it and start to buy conspiracy only of this store and soo the other stores start to sink stock of conspiracy boxes all the stores will move to MSRP...
Conspiracy will be printed to meet the demand.
The initial suply is low ( 4 per store) but then we will have plent of conspiracy bosters to draft
Print run low???
My store only normally see about 16 players for draft and the store got 6 cases in the initial order (36 boxes). The owner was told there is plenty more and more would be printed too. I don't see cards from this set holding $$ value for long.
Boxes are going to be worth more than $100 initially,
but will probably drop to less than that as the money Rares are opened more.
I've mentioned this before, but Conspiracy has 35 Rares.
If you allow for 3 Mythics and 3 Duplicate Rares,
you're going to get 30 of those 35 Rares.
There's a 53% chance you will open Stifle, Exploration, Misdirection, and Council's Judgment in any given box.
~85% chance of opening Stifle means a little luck will get you a quarter of the way there in one pack.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
when one store start to sells it for MSRP or bellow and players see it and start to buy conspiracy only of this store and soo the other stores start to sink stock of conspiracy boxes all the stores will move to MSRP...
Conspiracy will be printed to meet the demand.
The initial suply is low ( 4 per store) but then we will have plent of conspiracy bosters to draft
Print run low???
My store only normally see about 16 players for draft and the store got 6 cases in the initial order (36 boxes). The owner was told there is plenty more and more would be printed too. I don't see cards from this set holding $$ value for long.
exploration, missdirection, Stifle , Council’s Judgment , Swords to Plowshares(foil),Brainstorm (foil), Breakthrough(foil) , Fact or Fiction (foil) ,Muzzio, Visionary Architect
, Plea for Power , Ill-Gotten Gains (foil) , Reign of the Pit ,Smallpox, Tyrant’s Choice, Scourge of the Throne , Treasonous Ogre , Gamekeeper (foil), Hydra Omnivore , Brago, King Eternal , Dack Fayden , Edric, Spymaster of Trest ,Grenzo, Dungeon Warden , Marchesa, the Black Rose , Mirari’s Wake , Selvala, Explorer Returned , Pernicious Deed ,Spiritmonger,Altar of Dementia , Coercive Portal , Vedalken Orrery , Silent Arbiter ,Reflecting Pool
will probably do the trick ( cause are high valuable) , popular with casuals, pauper players,and commander players.
and some will become staples in legacy ( i m looking at you Council’s Judgment)
alot of these cards will drastically decrease in value but will stay as very desirable cards
also opening a foil will be like a dream cause some of these have never or at least in a very limited way printed as foil...
From Canada and my lgs has had no issue getting them in as an advanced plus store. And is selling them at msrp both for boxes and packs. And they have been assured they can reup their order as they need. We already have multiple drafts for the upcoming weeks scheduled. Plus this isn't Toronto or Montreal im talking about but rather Sault ste Marie, northern Ontario city isolated with less than 100000 population. Very excited to open mine on Friday.
While there are some value cards in this set, a lot of those cards have value because they are so old or were in a limited release and there aren't that many copies of them...not because of their playability alone.
Most people are going to realize that this set as far as value is concerned is solely based on foil versions of cards that see legacy play. After the dust settles, I'm predicting that brainstorm foil will be the second most expensive card in the set...
A set is not going to sell above MSRP when it isn't a true limited release and the only cards of any real long term value are foils of legacy commons/uncommons and dack fayden...
Except the price point on a couple cards (Exploration, Misdirection) are fairly high, but it is cards like Council's Judgement and Dack that are bothering me.
If the prices on the individual cards go way up, the pack prices will jump as well. I've heard of a couple shops where the price per pack is expected to be $10-12. That makes drafting it prohibitively expensive for almost all players who it was intended to reach. Boxes are currently going for between $120 and $150.
Thoughts?
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Conspiracy will be printed to meet the demand.
The initial suply is low ( 4 per store) but then we will have plent of conspiracy bosters to draft
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
The stores in your area are then apparently run by people who are either deliberately jacking up the prices because they are ********s, or people who read WAY to much into internet rumors. My LGS is confident that it can draft Conspiracy for a month, and it will be MSRP.
for he is the messenger between the spheres
and the traveler between the realms of the living and the dead.
He shall summon forth the ancient ones
and wake them from their deathly slumber
then shall the elder signs be shattered.
Trade Thread
The shop is still good at new product as they usually run this discounted prize that's fairly similar to MSRP but sometimes they are jacked a little up due to my country's high tax-rate.
For reference; ChannelFireball is selling at 120$.
Did you miss putting in some form of sarcasm?
Boxes are pre-selling in Canada anywhere from $125-$200.
Personally, I don't trust WoTC to make good on their word to print more if the demand suits, and even if they did it'd still be hard to get them in Canada because of the policy (rightly so) on shipping sealed product across borders.
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
Basically:
MM- lottery ticket with a chance at insane wins (foil Goyf but a also plenty of cards like Bob, Clique etc. worth way more than even the inflated value of the packs) and with guaranteed foil and hopefully a few value commons/uncommons even if you miss (not enough to get pack value but even a miss with MM should give you something to recoup some of the cost).
CON- lottery ticket with chance of a solid win (some good stuff but foil Dack Faden aside the rest isn't even normal goyf level) and with the possibility of an absolute miss (draft format only rares/uncommons etc. resulting in a zero value pack is a real possibility).
Machius proudly supports R_E's right to Rumour!
I personally felt justified in spending $100 on a box mainly for three reasons:
1- The number of money cards at lower rarities. StP, FoF, and Brainstorm are cards most people could use a few of,
and cards like Counterspell, Sol Ring, Regrowth, and Chain Lightning may very well be present, as well.
2- The small size of the set makes it very easy to get close to a complete set from a single box.
You'll likely just be missing 6-7 Mythics, 2-4 Rares, and maybe an Uncommon or two.
3- we're still missing ~13 Rares and ~4 Mythics, which could easily include another gem or two
like Demonic Tutor, Sneak Attack, Natural Order, or Karn Liberated. I'm betting we get at least one of those.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
That's because MM (Mostly Moronic) was way worse, at least this time we are not getting a "limited print" that sends people into a frenzy. I still have some lingering hostility for how poorly that product line was handled.
Empathogen has already mentioned money uncommons like Brainstorm (likely to be uncommon), Swords to Plowshares, perhaps FoF, etc. Furthermore, we have eternal casual favorites in Exploration, Rout, and Misdirection.
Combine the fact that we do not have the full spoiler, thanks to the very convenient "rescheduling" by wizards. I'm still figuring out whether this move was a brain fart, a dig at hoarders/speculators, or simply buying time for LGS to confirm their preorders.
Either way, it's not looking good. Look at the preorder price of Dack Fayden. Overrated card IMO. Definitely safe to print for modern and standard. I hate their lame excuse that it's pushed.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
WotC was afraid of another chronicles, they vastly underrated how many people would get into modern after modern masters.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
True, but to be honest I think they should have had a plan for a possible success.
I'd say they did a good job too. The set has some goodies, but not enough high money ones to make people hoard.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Print run low???
My store only normally see about 16 players for draft and the store got 6 cases in the initial order (36 boxes). The owner was told there is plenty more and more would be printed too. I don't see cards from this set holding $$ value for long.
but will probably drop to less than that as the money Rares are opened more.
I've mentioned this before, but Conspiracy has 35 Rares.
If you allow for 3 Mythics and 3 Duplicate Rares,
you're going to get 30 of those 35 Rares.
There's a 53% chance you will open Stifle, Exploration, Misdirection, and Council's Judgment in any given box.
~85% chance of opening Stifle means a little luck will get you a quarter of the way there in one pack.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
exploration, missdirection, Stifle , Council’s Judgment , Swords to Plowshares(foil),Brainstorm (foil), Breakthrough(foil) , Fact or Fiction (foil) ,Muzzio, Visionary Architect
, Plea for Power , Ill-Gotten Gains (foil) , Reign of the Pit ,Smallpox, Tyrant’s Choice, Scourge of the Throne , Treasonous Ogre , Gamekeeper (foil), Hydra Omnivore , Brago, King Eternal , Dack Fayden , Edric, Spymaster of Trest ,Grenzo, Dungeon Warden , Marchesa, the Black Rose , Mirari’s Wake , Selvala, Explorer Returned , Pernicious Deed ,Spiritmonger,Altar of Dementia , Coercive Portal , Vedalken Orrery , Silent Arbiter ,Reflecting Pool
will probably do the trick ( cause are high valuable) , popular with casuals, pauper players,and commander players.
and some will become staples in legacy ( i m looking at you Council’s Judgment)
alot of these cards will drastically decrease in value but will stay as very desirable cards
also opening a foil will be like a dream cause some of these have never or at least in a very limited way printed as foil...
Most people are going to realize that this set as far as value is concerned is solely based on foil versions of cards that see legacy play. After the dust settles, I'm predicting that brainstorm foil will be the second most expensive card in the set...
A set is not going to sell above MSRP when it isn't a true limited release and the only cards of any real long term value are foils of legacy commons/uncommons and dack fayden...