I think that Disciple of Deceit has a ton of potential, and I'm sure that its potential has been discussed already. Anyone got ideas for a potential U/B control/toolbox deck? I could see potential in a U/B toolbox that uses Thassa and Read the Bones along with the new constellation cards to set up an annoyer/manipulation deck. Thoughts?
my thoughts are non-creature UB cards are so dumbed down in standard, with the addition of the silly requirement of tapping and untapping the disciple, that it's not going to work profitably.
That's a cool deck, but I'm not sure i understand the place of Nivmagus Elemental. It is really cool though that we can discard a 3-drop to grab Sphinx's rev. Is Witches Eye to unreliable for a spot?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
About Mindslaver rulings:
Quote from ebcubs03 »
so if i am that player do i get to sleep with his girlfriend ?
you can make some shaving of the creatures and spells to fit in the disciple of deceit.. I'd also like to add a toolbox of spells like far//away since its easy to tutor for.
That's a cool deck, but I'm not sure i understand the place of Nivmagus Elemental. It is really cool though that we can discard a 3-drop to grab Sphinx's rev. Is Witches Eye to unreliable for a spot?
In my opinion, try to build around the Disciple is a mistake. I've tried several versions of decks designed around the tutoring, and each deck lost effectiveness by trying to force in split cards or by keeping the mana costs the same. I think the synergy shouldn't be forced, it should come naturally. Don't play bad cards because they have synergy with Disciple, play cards that are good in isolation that become even stronger in a deck that utilizes Disciple.
Vortex Elemental, is strong with Disciple. But without her, it is a two mana non-instant removal spell that can be bypassed with evasion, or simply destroyed. Whereas Retraction Helix is a one mana temporary removal spell that can be triggered multiple times per turn at instant and also triggers Disciple. Triton Tactics can trigger Disciple and save it from combat damage or burn. Cards like Pain Seer and Nivmagus Elmental can eke out extra advantage from Hidden Strings.
So what I'm looking for is a deck that where each piece is useful individually, and also helps set up Inspired/Heroic. Retraction Helix and Hidden Strings are automatically in. This deck makes sense with Xathrid Necromancer because both Pain Seer and Disciple of Deceit are humans, so he'll be our curve-topper. Tormented Hero and Sage of Hours are Heroic creatures that can take advantage of our inspired enablers, and are also human. Nivmagus Elemental isn't a human, but he is one of the few one drops that can become a threat quickly. So those are our creatures.
We already have Retraction Helix and Hidden Strings for spells and enablers, now we need to find other useful tricks and removal. I think a full set of Thoughtseize is a necessity for a deck that can't afford to start off badly. I think a couple removal spells are important as well, and my favorite is Ultimate Price. Doom Blade and Bile Blight are strong, but a turn three Master of the Feast is going to be common in this standard and needs a strong answer. Finally, Triton Tactics is a trick that works well for both protection and enabling our creatures. Putting it all together:
The sideboard is mostly set on dealing with control, which could be a problem for a deck with a lot of moving pieces that aren't individually very strong. I haven't tested the deck much, but it seems to do well against monoblack and the black aggro deck I've been using.
that's probably where this deck needs to go. i'm still tempted to squeeze white in there for a tethmos high priest, an athreos, god of passage and a set of cartel aristocrats. that manabase takes thoughtseize right out of the equation, so it's probably too greedy
I think a few toolbox cards would make sense with a deck like the one Manbear posted. I mean this card is built for 1 ofs that fit the main mana curve.
I also think Sage of Hours is a bit to cute with this deck, unless he is good enough as just a 1/1 heroic for 1U.
I think a few toolbox cards would make sense with a deck like the one Manbear posted. I mean this card is built for 1 ofs that fit the main mana curve.
I also think Sage of Hours is a bit to cute with this deck, unless he is good enough as just a 1/1 heroic for 1U.
The reason I wanted Sage of Hours is that I felt the deck needed another 2 CMC creature, and it needed another creature that could become a big body. Sage of Hours may never get 5+ counters, but it is still somewhat useful because of this. It is also important to note the timing of a Hidden Strings cipher. The targeting happens before the spell resolves, which means that you can pump Sage of Hours and Nivmagus Elemental at the same time (which is why I wanted a Heroic creature). And Sage of Hours also serves a purpose as a diversion, a target many players will remove over a card advantage engine.
Ultimately though, that is a perfectly acceptable place to cut and probably the first thing to get taken out if people want. If we want to stick to humans, we could use Artisan of Forms in the same spot. She could either copy a card advantage card or the opponents most dangerous card. We also have more aggro cards like Rakdos Shred-Freak. Down a CMC spot is Tormented Hero, which can serve as a targeting outlet and give the deck some lifegain. Up a spot is Agent of the Fates, good for removing opposing creatures. In that slot we also have Bane Alley Broker for card advantage, Dealthcult Rouge for a nearly unblockable cipher target, or any 3 CMC instant/sorcery.
um... what about battlefield thaumaturge in place of sage? hexproof can make him a champ with hidden strings and a single gridlock in the board for aggro sounds kinda adorable...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
About Mindslaver rulings:
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1193506
4 Agent of the Fates
3 Artisan of Forms
2 Nivmagus Elemental
4 Pain Seer
4 Tormented Hero
4 Xathrid Necromancer
other
3 Boon of Erebos
4 Hidden Strings
3 Mizzium Skin
2 Retraction Helix
2 Springleaf Drum
4 Triton Tactics
1 Ultimate Price
4 Island
3 Mutavault
5 Swamp
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave
2 Bile Blight
3 Desecration Demon
2 Dispel
2 Doom Blade
2 Duress
2 Negate
2 Thoughtseize
you can make some shaving of the creatures and spells to fit in the disciple of deceit.. I'd also like to add a toolbox of spells like far//away since its easy to tutor for.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Nivmagus can eat the extra copies of strings.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Vortex Elemental, is strong with Disciple. But without her, it is a two mana non-instant removal spell that can be bypassed with evasion, or simply destroyed. Whereas Retraction Helix is a one mana temporary removal spell that can be triggered multiple times per turn at instant and also triggers Disciple. Triton Tactics can trigger Disciple and save it from combat damage or burn. Cards like Pain Seer and Nivmagus Elmental can eke out extra advantage from Hidden Strings.
So what I'm looking for is a deck that where each piece is useful individually, and also helps set up Inspired/Heroic. Retraction Helix and Hidden Strings are automatically in. This deck makes sense with Xathrid Necromancer because both Pain Seer and Disciple of Deceit are humans, so he'll be our curve-topper. Tormented Hero and Sage of Hours are Heroic creatures that can take advantage of our inspired enablers, and are also human. Nivmagus Elemental isn't a human, but he is one of the few one drops that can become a threat quickly. So those are our creatures.
We already have Retraction Helix and Hidden Strings for spells and enablers, now we need to find other useful tricks and removal. I think a full set of Thoughtseize is a necessity for a deck that can't afford to start off badly. I think a couple removal spells are important as well, and my favorite is Ultimate Price. Doom Blade and Bile Blight are strong, but a turn three Master of the Feast is going to be common in this standard and needs a strong answer. Finally, Triton Tactics is a trick that works well for both protection and enabling our creatures. Putting it all together:
4 Tormented Hero
2 Nivmagus Elemental
3 Sage of Hours
4 Pain Seer
4 Disciple of Deceit
4 Xathrid Necromancer
Other
4 Retraction Helix
4 Thoughtseize
3 Triton Tactics
2 Springleaf Drum
4 Hidden Strings
2 Ultimate Price
6 Island
6 Swamp
4 Temple of Deceit
4 Watery Grave
2 Bile Blight
3 Master of the Feast
2 Dispel
2 Doom Blade
2 Duress
2 Negate
2 Desecration Demon
The sideboard is mostly set on dealing with control, which could be a problem for a deck with a lot of moving pieces that aren't individually very strong. I haven't tested the deck much, but it seems to do well against monoblack and the black aggro deck I've been using.
I also think Sage of Hours is a bit to cute with this deck, unless he is good enough as just a 1/1 heroic for 1U.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
The reason I wanted Sage of Hours is that I felt the deck needed another 2 CMC creature, and it needed another creature that could become a big body. Sage of Hours may never get 5+ counters, but it is still somewhat useful because of this. It is also important to note the timing of a Hidden Strings cipher. The targeting happens before the spell resolves, which means that you can pump Sage of Hours and Nivmagus Elemental at the same time (which is why I wanted a Heroic creature). And Sage of Hours also serves a purpose as a diversion, a target many players will remove over a card advantage engine.
Ultimately though, that is a perfectly acceptable place to cut and probably the first thing to get taken out if people want. If we want to stick to humans, we could use Artisan of Forms in the same spot. She could either copy a card advantage card or the opponents most dangerous card. We also have more aggro cards like Rakdos Shred-Freak. Down a CMC spot is Tormented Hero, which can serve as a targeting outlet and give the deck some lifegain. Up a spot is Agent of the Fates, good for removing opposing creatures. In that slot we also have Bane Alley Broker for card advantage, Dealthcult Rouge for a nearly unblockable cipher target, or any 3 CMC instant/sorcery.