While I don't have a problem with Knowledge and Power being bad (not every card can be playable), I do wish there were more good cards in the set. The top-teir of standard is three decks, with a few decks making up the viable second teir. One of those top decks is a bunch of weak cards that support two bombs (MUD is Master, Thassa, and stuff that wasn't close to playable last year), another is a pile of removal and three wincons, two of which were extremely fringe/weak last year, and the third is the generic control deck that will always exist. The second teir is RG monsters, RW burn, and Dredge(which is actually a cool deck). That is actually a decent metagame, the problem is that the top teir is the exact same since Theros, and most of the highly played cards are from RTR block, many of which weren't even good then.
However, there are so many decks that would be possible if just a few cards were a little more pushed. They decided to play it so safe that the format is dominated by two control decks and the one deck that got two well-costed cards. JOU might help though, WB aggro looks decent. Dredge did get support, but there is so much efficient graveyard hate. Enchantment hate is so much better than any of the actual enchantments.
I like how red gets build around cards that work in limited and budget casual. I made Rebellion of tha Flamekin and Burning vengeance decks for $2 each (yeah i know). They are not that powerful, but fun to play, and did I say cheap?
I agree that that card has a ridiculously bloated cost and i think putting it at 3 with no mana to activate won't break any formats.
You simply have to accept that budget decks are not somthing wizards is supporting because, you know, they wont profit much from it.
@JinxedIdol: In fact, casual players make up a greater amount of purchasing power than professional or wannabe-professional players. So yes, they make a lot of profit off of people that would play this card. More than they do than from players like the OP of this thread, whose ability to gauge the purpose of cards is absolutely lacking.
@JinxedIdol: In fact, casual players make up a greater amount of purchasing power than professional or wannabe-professional players. So yes, they make a lot of profit off of people that would play this card. More than they do than from players like the OP of this thread, whose ability to gauge the purpose of cards is absolutely lacking.
I am willing to bet that if they made it a little less overcosted it would be even more loved in Casual and would make Wizards even more money.
@JinxedIdol: In fact, casual players make up a greater amount of purchasing power than professional or wannabe-professional players. So yes, they make a lot of profit off of people that would play this card. More than they do than from players like the OP of this thread, whose ability to gauge the purpose of cards is absolutely lacking.
This card is not useful to any demographic of players.
Limited? Useless
Constructed? Useless
Cheap casual? Still useless
Competitive casual? Even more useless
Alternative formats? Yep, still a useless card.
It's bad at everything. It isn't usable in any capacity, including a stupid budget deck.
Just because a card is so far below playable doesn't mean it automatically serves a purpose in casual, what a naive view of casual players. No one wants this card.
@JinxedIdol: In fact, casual players make up a greater amount of purchasing power than professional or wannabe-professional players. So yes, they make a lot of profit off of people that would play this card. More than they do than from players like the OP of this thread, whose ability to gauge the purpose of cards is absolutely lacking.
I am willing to bet that if they made it a little less overcosted it would be even more loved in Casual and would make Wizards even more money.
Yeah. Casual players like winning, too.
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"I am so stupid that I cannot understand philosophy; the antithesis of this is that philosophy is so clever that it cannot comprehend my stupidity. These antitheses are mediated in a higher unity; in our common stupidity."
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
Gotta remember mirrodin block...they are still burned by it...and they obviously didn't want another astral slide deck for scry
This is EXACTLY what they should of done. They should of made Lightning Rift but replace the word cycle with scry. I suppose they could of made an Astral Slide effect too with scry. I dont think it would of been overpowered at all since unlike the cycle lands the temples cant be a trigger at instant speed.
Knowledge and Power
4 R
Enchantment
Whenever you scry, you may pay 2. If you do. Knowledge and Power deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
-It's overcosted to play it in the first place. 5 mana is often the top of your curve, and THEN you need to get a bunch of scry activations to have it do anything
-It's overcosted even when you do scry, if the enchantment is going to cost 5, it needs to activate for free. Otherwise both the enchantment's base cost and the activation cost need to be reduced.
It's a stupid, safe, lame card that shows that they didn't even want to make an enchantment a threat in the enchantment block.
This is the poster child of the block.
The title promised so much yet your thesis delivered so little.
It's a build around me card, if you need help try going to gathering and search sry.
Knowledge and Power
4 R
Enchantment
Whenever you scry, you may pay 2. If you do. Knowledge and Power deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
-It's overcosted to play it in the first place. 5 mana is often the top of your curve, and THEN you need to get a bunch of scry activations to have it do anything
-It's overcosted even when you do scry, if the enchantment is going to cost 5, it needs to activate for free. Otherwise both the enchantment's base cost and the activation cost need to be reduced.
It's a stupid, safe, lame card that shows that they didn't even want to make an enchantment a threat in the enchantment block.
This is the poster child of the block.
The title promised so much yet your thesis delivered so little.
It's a build around me card, if you need help try going to gathering and search sry.
This card could exist:
0
Enchantment
0: Scry 0
And this card would STILL be awful.
It's a build around card that is overcosted in so many different ways that it ends up being boring and useless.
Any card that scrys cheaply (for instance Stormcaller of Keranos) will be able to abuse this. You just need to see it play. Or you can wait til the prerelease when someone's UR deck destroys you with this.
Also you claimed this card was representative of the block when there are plenty of non-enchantment, agressively costed cards that will play in competitive decks across multiple formats. I think you need some perspective.
Any card that scrys cheaply (for instance Stormcaller of Keranos) will be able to abuse this. You just need to see it play. Or you can wait til the prerelease when someone's UR deck destroys you with this.
Also you claimed this card was representative of the block when there are plenty of non-enchantment, agressively costed cards that will play in competitive decks across multiple formats. I think you need some perspective.
I don't know how to reply to someone who thinks an enchantment that costs five mana, and then an additional 2 mana + an effect it can't produce itself to do ANYTHING, is a fine card that should be included in a deck.
I like how this thread is just a buncha people sitting around agreeing with themselves, then if someone provides an arguement for the card it's immediate dismissed, and everyone goes back to making making wildly absurd blanket statements as though they know how every magic player everywhere feels.
"Man, bad card is so bad."
"I know, WOTC is so stupid."
"Hey, you know it could be fun."
"No, you don't what you're talking about,
everyone agrees with me."
Great discussion.
People complaining about Knowledge and Power represents everything that is wrong with PLAYERS.
Any card that scrys cheaply (for instance Stormcaller of Keranos) will be able to abuse this. You just need to see it play. Or you can wait til the prerelease when someone's UR deck destroys you with this.
Also you claimed this card was representative of the block when there are plenty of non-enchantment, agressively costed cards that will play in competitive decks across multiple formats. I think you need some perspective.
I don't know how to reply to someone who thinks an enchantment that costs five mana, and then an additional 2 mana + an effect it can't produce itself to do ANYTHING, is a fine card that should be included in a deck.
I let you in on a secret, you include dis in deks dat scry anyway.
Any card that scrys cheaply (for instance Stormcaller of Keranos) will be able to abuse this. You just need to see it play. Or you can wait til the prerelease when someone's UR deck destroys you with this.
Also you claimed this card was representative of the block when there are plenty of non-enchantment, agressively costed cards that will play in competitive decks across multiple formats. I think you need some perspective.
I don't know how to reply to someone who thinks an enchantment that costs five mana, and then an additional 2 mana + an effect it can't produce itself to do ANYTHING, is a fine card that should be included in a deck.
I let you in on a secret, you include dis in deks dat scry anyway.
I guess people would be happy with something like:
Knowledgement and destruction RR
Enchantment (u)
Whenever you scry, you may pay 1. If you do, CARDNAME deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
Stop being silly wizards we dont want that "power" we want that destruction
of popular formats...
This would actually shake things up. Suddenly you'd have to deal with something other than a deck that just drops creatures.
They blatantly push cards like brimaz, king of oreskos and restoration angel, but heaven forbid someone base a strategy around something other than creatures swinging or killing creatures.
People seem perfectly fine with cards like pack rat, master of waves, elspeth, sun's champion and others completely taking over the game, I don't see what's wrong with actually printing an enchantment that is a legitimate threat.
Any card that scrys cheaply (for instance Stormcaller of Keranos) will be able to abuse this. You just need to see it play. Or you can wait til the prerelease when someone's UR deck destroys you with this.
Also you claimed this card was representative of the block when there are plenty of non-enchantment, agressively costed cards that will play in competitive decks across multiple formats. I think you need some perspective.
I don't know how to reply to someone who thinks an enchantment that costs five mana, and then an additional 2 mana + an effect it can't produce itself to do ANYTHING, is a fine card that should be included in a deck.
I let you in on a secret, you include dis in deks dat scry anyway.
It's a horrible card in a deck that scrys.
How do you not get this?
Like I said, combine it with cards that scry repeatedly and you can get shock(s) for 2 each turn without spending a card. It's called value, and it's an important concept to get, particular in the late game.
Any card that scrys cheaply (for instance Stormcaller of Keranos) will be able to abuse this. You just need to see it play. Or you can wait til the prerelease when someone's UR deck destroys you with this.
Also you claimed this card was representative of the block when there are plenty of non-enchantment, agressively costed cards that will play in competitive decks across multiple formats. I think you need some perspective.
I don't know how to reply to someone who thinks an enchantment that costs five mana, and then an additional 2 mana + an effect it can't produce itself to do ANYTHING, is a fine card that should be included in a deck.
I let you in on a secret, you include dis in deks dat scry anyway.
It's a horrible card in a deck that scrys.
How do you not get this?
Like I said, combine it with cards that scry repeatedly and you can get shock(s) for 2 each turn without spending a card. It's called value, and it's an important concept to get, particular in the late game.
Last I checked, Searing Meditation isn't warping any formats, and there are a lot more ways to gain life without spending a card or mana than there are ways to scry without doing the same. This card could easily have cost less if they intended for it to do something.
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"I am so stupid that I cannot understand philosophy; the antithesis of this is that philosophy is so clever that it cannot comprehend my stupidity. These antitheses are mediated in a higher unity; in our common stupidity."
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
"This set doesn't have cards that are extremely pushed like Snapcaster, Stoneforge Mystic, Primeval Titan, or Jace TMS, so essentially I think it sucks completely."
Honestly, this set isn't that strong but you can tell this whole block has been strongly geared more towards limited play than constructed. (limited mechanics like Heroic, Constellation, and Inspired).
If that's where Wizards wants to go with their product, so be it. I personally think drafting this block is going to be fun - but that's just me.
Thats cool and all, but not everyone likes to draft...and out side of draft MOST of those mechanics suck.
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Quote from Wolfman about lack of Conspiracy spoilers-
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
Man I forgot about searing meditation, dat card was fun. Sure it didn't warp formats, but heck if a card must warp formats to be considered good then your in for constant disappointment Alestra.
However, there are so many decks that would be possible if just a few cards were a little more pushed. They decided to play it so safe that the format is dominated by two control decks and the one deck that got two well-costed cards. JOU might help though, WB aggro looks decent. Dredge did get support, but there is so much efficient graveyard hate. Enchantment hate is so much better than any of the actual enchantments.
I agree that that card has a ridiculously bloated cost and i think putting it at 3 with no mana to activate won't break any formats.
You simply have to accept that budget decks are not somthing wizards is supporting because, you know, they wont profit much from it.
I am willing to bet that if they made it a little less overcosted it would be even more loved in Casual and would make Wizards even more money.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
This card is not useful to any demographic of players.
Limited? Useless
Constructed? Useless
Cheap casual? Still useless
Competitive casual? Even more useless
Alternative formats? Yep, still a useless card.
It's bad at everything. It isn't usable in any capacity, including a stupid budget deck.
Just because a card is so far below playable doesn't mean it automatically serves a purpose in casual, what a naive view of casual players. No one wants this card.
Please wizards, wake up from your dreams.
Make them more like Burning Vengeance.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
This is EXACTLY what they should of done. They should of made Lightning Rift but replace the word cycle with scry. I suppose they could of made an Astral Slide effect too with scry. I dont think it would of been overpowered at all since unlike the cycle lands the temples cant be a trigger at instant speed.
Cash? Credit? Gold? or Jace?
The title promised so much yet your thesis delivered so little.
It's a build around me card, if you need help try going to gathering and search sry.
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This card could exist:
0
Enchantment
0: Scry 0
And this card would STILL be awful.
It's a build around card that is overcosted in so many different ways that it ends up being boring and useless.
Just like the rest of this block.
Also you claimed this card was representative of the block when there are plenty of non-enchantment, agressively costed cards that will play in competitive decks across multiple formats. I think you need some perspective.
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I don't know how to reply to someone who thinks an enchantment that costs five mana, and then an additional 2 mana + an effect it can't produce itself to do ANYTHING, is a fine card that should be included in a deck.
Playing Knowledge and Power in a sealed/limited/whatever deck is the perfect embodiment of the opposite meaning: Stupidity and Worthlessness.
This card will turn away potential magic players. It'll hurt them so bad they'll never wanna see another Magic card.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
"Man, bad card is so bad."
"I know, WOTC is so stupid."
"Hey, you know it could be fun."
"No, you don't what you're talking about,
everyone agrees with me."
Great discussion.
People complaining about Knowledge and Power represents everything that is wrong with PLAYERS.
Enchantment (u)
Whenever you scry, you may pay 1. If you do, CARDNAME deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
Stop being silly wizards we dont want that "power" we want that destruction
of popular formats...
I let you in on a secret, you include dis in deks dat scry anyway.
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Kank'sPremiumBlend
As opposed to metaphorically reading into words.
I bet this sounded really clever in your head. Shame it aint true.
I'm glad you stopped short of saying that playing this card would result in the end of civilisation.
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Kank'sPremiumBlend
It's a horrible card in a deck that scrys.
How do you not get this?
This would actually shake things up. Suddenly you'd have to deal with something other than a deck that just drops creatures.
They blatantly push cards like brimaz, king of oreskos and restoration angel, but heaven forbid someone base a strategy around something other than creatures swinging or killing creatures.
People seem perfectly fine with cards like pack rat, master of waves, elspeth, sun's champion and others completely taking over the game, I don't see what's wrong with actually printing an enchantment that is a legitimate threat.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Like I said, combine it with cards that scry repeatedly and you can get shock(s) for 2 each turn without spending a card. It's called value, and it's an important concept to get, particular in the late game.
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~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
Thats cool and all, but not everyone likes to draft...and out side of draft MOST of those mechanics suck.
"I'd say this about guarantees that it won't be up till this Friday, but considering the current track record, the ETA is now probably two weeks after the set has been out."
Quote from Sirius_B
Speak for yourself, if drawing *****-headed wurms makes social justice warriors cry I'll make it my favorite hobby.
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Kank'sPremiumBlend