I found JOU more interesting than Theros and BNG but nothing got me truly excited. I wanted for Bestow to be competitive and likewise for Heroic as I liked the mechanics for what they attempted to do: One to deal with Auras generic problem and the other to cater to a White Wheenie archtype that grew as time passed.
Both came out lackluster.
Monstrosity: Kinda boring mana-sink mechanic. Would have been interesting if they experimented with alternative costs like life payment, sacrifices or the like.
Tribute: I like a good punisher-mechanic but overall it just turned out awkward. So instead of getting a Fact or Fiction-type of feeling (Steam Augury would fit better I know) it just felt like you paid for an effect you couldn't really use on half of them. Generally overcosted made the punisher-mechanic work too much against you.
Heroic: I really liked the concept behind the ability. I wished it was possible to let some abilities affect them too but then we run into Daru Spiritualist-problems. Promising mechanic but without proper support.
Bestow: Biggest letdown in the entire block regarding mechanics. High hopes and expectations. Wizards delivered high mana costs and lazy design equals of "lets staple this creature onto this creature in best Banding-resemblance".
Inspired: Poor support and limited effects made this mechanic feel uninspired and generic. Stabled onto creatures that got overcosted and/or had a poor P/T so they weren't allowed to activate it themselves just by attacking. A mechanic that requires shenanigans to work and doesn't receive them is just bland and frustrating.
Constellation: Interesting landfall mechanic. Not enough design space reserved to actually let it shine and it was kept in the basement for too long. Stabled on mostly weak overcosted creatures. In connection to Bestow's failure in competitiveness it also suffers that there are not that many targets for it to trigger on which in themselves are worth using. Feels like a desperate attempt to keep the "enchantment"-block together but IMO it fails still.
Returning mechanics:
Scry: A welcome sight, scry is always a neat mechanic to have. However the implementation feels out of place on some/most spells and sometimes comparably it overcost a card by up to +4 CMC for Scry 1.
Strive or should we say Multi-kicker: A neat mechanic as it is modal in interesting way, the trick is balancing effect and cost. Personally I think maybe two cards with Strive are interesting and the rest is just basic utility for a block to work and then there's a few bad apples. Overall a lot of the Strive-costs makes them unworthy as they basically read: Effective as single-target, pretty stretched at 2 and horrible at 3+.
Chroma, now known as Devotion: I was very excited when I found out they'd redo Chroma as I really like the mechanic but seeing as it was only printed on 9 cards shattered all over the colors back in Lorwyn and with various way to work it felt more like Future Sight where you just get a taste.
However I feel like Devotion was simplifying it too much and made it uninteresting in the way it works. Additionally that meant that certain archtypes had it really hard to justify running Devotion. It didn't help that it was basically the gods and 10 additional cards who cared about devotion throughout the entire block.
The limited catering feels kinda annoying when it's extremely obvious and broadly applied. Limited is a one-time deal for the product and then you have to invest in more product - smart profit-grinding, less attractive in long term (constructed) for associated players.
I really like when a block has interesting and foremost constructed worthy mechanics for at least FNM but I find the later part really lackluster in Theros which infuriates me considering that WotC have now toyed with these types of mechanics and there will go at least a few years before they'll return to these types again, if ever...
Overall the mechanics were too numerous in amount IMO and didn't get explored very deeply nor very creatively.
List of "dumb"/simplistic mechanics: Monstrosity, Tribute, Bestow (the effect-template, not the mechanic itself), Devotion, Strive and i want to shove in Heroic but they also had some creative uses. Most of which also feels lazy as a design.
Additional mechanics which just felt lazy: Inspired, Constellation.
List of mechanics I thought promising, purely as a mechanic:
Bestow, Heroic, Constellation, Strive and Devotion.
Here bestow in a version that has been tempered so it's not simplistic "Stable creature onto other creature" but more liberal use of the aura and creature-side of the mechanic. Devotion likewise in a more creative solution.
Overall the block felt very safe-play from Wizards' side and not very creative. It catered very much to limited environment which I feel is a double-edged sword as I want to play a fun limited environment but likewise I'd like to use those cards afterwards instead of throwing them in the bin.
I was completely fine with the power reduction but didn't expect it to go somewhat cold turkey. It really feels like we're at a very low point now.
Overall verdict: I didn't purchase any product and is not particularly interested in the block. I like Greek myth but Theros just leaves me with a hollow feeling. It probably wanted to stir something in me but all it did was itch me, getting my hopes up and subsequently disappoint.
I just look forward to the next block and Core Set and will remember this block as a close to power-reset in terms of creativity and effects.
However I may just be too biased by Lorwyn's tribal theme where mechanics actually were constructed worthy for FNM and creatures didn't had to be good P/T-wise but just had effects to cover up - sometimes less is more. I choose to block out the few mistakes Wizards made with the Faerie-tribe that skewed the meta and remember the blocks for what it otherwise represented.
Someone from Wizards said "I think people will look back on Theros as an Enchantment-block" - I disagree and think they'll recall it as the Greek-themed God block.
JOU is great. I'm just bummed that Godhunter Octopus didn't have better art and a decent effect. I really wanted another Greek Octopus monster and that just didn't cut it. There are a lot of strong points in this set for me though, such as:
Dictate of Heliod - Beautiful art and such a fun battle trick on an amazing global enchantment
Launch the Fleet feels like the Iliad summed up into one card
Loved the Font cycle
Hypnotic Siren will make some noise in EDH, Draft and perhaps Standard. Def amazing in casual.
Pull From the Deep - my favorite card since AVR
Scourge of Fleets, a Starfish and a Nautilus, what's not to love?
Thassa's Ire is such a fluid card, loving it.
Hall of Triumph is a long overdue card and a great one
Nyx-Fleece Ram's art!
The art overall is perfect, and I love the theme. I think in general some cards could have been more aggressively costed but I thought BNG, while weaker, had some standout gems in it like Plea for Guidance and Vortex Elemental.
The more I think about this set, the more lame it is. Everything other than the gods is pretty much an inferior version of a previous staple with "enchantment" or "creature" written somewhere. And it just ends up making them worst most of the time because they get into removal range now. Preorder prices are tanking across the board.
I'm a fan of the set. I think it packs a huge punch for a small set, with a ton of playables for both Standard and EDH. Limited with the full block looks to be a fun draft experience as well.
The more I think about this set, the more lame it is. Everything other than the gods is pretty much an inferior version of a previous staple with "enchantment" or "creature" written somewhere.
This. Imo, it's cheap and unimaginative design. I can only hope that the next block comes with more interesting cards and mechanics.
This has some of the worst half-assed attempts at flavor I have ever seen from Magic.
A Greek influenced block should be that, INFLUENCED. Not just changing names of legends, and people from Greek Mythology.
Here's King Midas Er, I mean Macar! Oh and this totally unique and original Trojan Hors... Akroan HORSE! The entire block is just filled with that crap. I read online that was one of the reason Kamigawa wasn't well received, but at least it did a good job of not just Copy and pasting Myths.
I'm really excited to play Limited formats with the full Theros Block - specifically draft!
As for Standard, there seems to be a good number of cards that could see a lot of play.
Master of Feasts / Gnarled Scarhide - Could push black-based aggro decks over the top.
Mana Confluence - Makes it easier for people to greedy-up their manabases
Eidolon of the Great Revel - Being a red player, I'm really excited for this card. Kinda double-sided but still pretty solid all around.
Banishing Light - You really can't go wrong with O.Ring variants
Nyx-Fleece Ram - Very annoying for aggressive players
Hypnotic Siren - I think Mono U just got a fine new addition
Battlefield Thaumaturge / Sage of Hours - If U/X heroic decks become a thing, these two would be major players
Brain Maggot - Another solid addition for the mono-black deck. May replace Duress in Sideboards?
The set has pretty cool cards for Commander players as well specifically the Dictates.
This has some of the worst half-assed attempts at flavor I have ever seen from Magic.
A Greek influenced block should be that, INFLUENCED. Not just changing names of legends, and people from Greek Mythology.
Here's King Midas Er, I mean Macar! Oh and this totally unique and original Trojan Hors... Akroan HORSE! The entire block is just filled with that crap. I read online that was one of the reason Kamigawa wasn't well received, but at least it did a good job of not just Copy and pasting Myths.
I personally love Magic using known mythologies. This is far from the first time they have done so and just because these are more recognizable to most westerners than Kamigawa, or Innistrad, or any of the core stuff that is lifted from Northern European legends doesn't make it any less entertaining. I had kind of hoped that it would have been the actual names though, like they did with Portal Three Kingdoms.
This has some of the worst half-assed attempts at flavor I have ever seen from Magic.
A Greek influenced block should be that, INFLUENCED. Not just changing names of legends, and people from Greek Mythology.
Here's King Midas Er, I mean Macar! Oh and this totally unique and original Trojan Hors... Akroan HORSE! The entire block is just filled with that crap. I read online that was one of the reason Kamigawa wasn't well received, but at least it did a good job of not just Copy and pasting Myths.
At least in Kamigawa, most of the people didn't know the myths. In Theros everyone can tell when a card is just a copy of a myth.
As someone who knows a decent amount of Japanese history and lore, Kamigawa is to the Japanese what Theros is to the Americans/English/etc. The major problem I had with both of these blocks is that it looks like history+actual mythology. I can open up a history book and see samurai, Greek soldiers, and even picture representations of their culture's respective myths. The best Magic blocks (flavor-wise)take from several sources and aren't complete ripoffs (Zendikar, Shards, Scars of Mirrodan, Ravnica, etc.). Zendikar is my personal favorite because they took HP Lovecraft's ideas about inter-dimensional monsters and put their own spin on it that works out perfectly in-multiverse. Kamigawa and Theros are more along the lines of copy-paste. That's one reason why people dislike them. The power-level for many (not all) of the cards in these blocks is fairly low too. I would never buy and open a Theros or Kamigawa pack. I only buy singles from either one. Other blocks I have bought and loved opening boosters. These blocks are a fail. Not the worst things ever, but they hold no lasting appeal. Sometimes I envision Eldrazi and Phyrexians invading over the horizon, or what it would be like to live on Jund, or how I would interact within a guild on Ravnica. Theros = I can't relate to it. Disclaimer: most of this is my opinion. Don't hate on my for it. If you have a real rebuttal I would love to hear it.
The times of the Unholy Strength enchanting a Drudge Skeletons are gone. I mean you can still do this, just not in standard. It seemed simple those many years ago when Terror was another common that many thought was the staple in every black deck. Or every green stompy deck that had Llanowar Elves, with Birds of paradise and other treefolk. Those days are gone for the mainstream of Magic. Ok thanks for pointing out the obvious, captain. So where does Magic go from here? There were rumors about adding a 6th color at one slim glimpse in the past obviously it was just talk...but what else can you really, truly do to Magic without having every card be, 1 - Instant - "You win the game", type of cards, over powered, under balanced, total wackness of cards. I'm not your typical card-board crack type of sophisticated player. I make mistakes, I learn from them, I make other mistakes, I learn other new stuff. I guess I enjoy the little things, as I've gotten older in terms of this game. The game itself. I hate going to tourney's and turn 1/2 kills, it just turned me off from those types of tourneys. I don't have the resources to battle those kinds of decks. So that told me, stay at home and continue to play kitchen table style. Which is completely fine. For those who can afford all the chase rares and great cards and who can battle those kinds of decks, I get why these sets are crap in your eyes. I get it. Have you ever taught someone how to play with the current sets? Then with that being said, have you taught someone how to play on older cards afterward? The response is, the older cards, most of them are pretty lame. I wasn't even about to try to explain banding, and referred them to online rules, etc....So to "kitchen table players" like myself, these sets are golden. It allows us to encorporate some cards to our decks that make games last for an hour or so. We can sit around and drink a few or actually have a conversation while playing. If an argument breaks out, we don't get all butt hurt when we look up rules.
So with that being said, I obviously don't represent all kitchen table players. I don't represent drafters, but in my opinion this block was fun to add some cards to the mix. Could it be better? Yes. Could be much worse too! I like the conversations, the game play, the atmosphere, etc...of this game. That to me is what this block has provided; slowing down the meta to enjoy the game. Just my 2 cents, and that's probably all it's worth.
The times of the Unholy Strength enchanting a Drudge Skeletons are gone. I mean you can still do this, just not in standard. It seemed simple those many years ago when Terror was another common that many thought was the staple in every black deck. Or every green stompy deck that had Llanowar Elves, with Birds of paradise and other treefolk. Those days are gone for the mainstream of Magic. Ok thanks for pointing out the obvious, captain. So where does Magic go from here? There were rumors about adding a 6th color at one slim glimpse in the past obviously it was just talk...but what else can you really, truly do to Magic without having every card be, 1 - Instant - "You win the game", type of cards, over powered, under balanced, total wackness of cards. I'm not your typical card-board crack type of sophisticated player. I make mistakes, I learn from them, I make other mistakes, I learn other new stuff. I guess I enjoy the little things, as I've gotten older in terms of this game. The game itself. I hate going to tourney's and turn 1/2 kills, it just turned me off from those types of tourneys. I don't have the resources to battle those kinds of decks. So that told me, stay at home and continue to play kitchen table style. Which is completely fine. For those who can afford all the chase rares and great cards and who can battle those kinds of decks, I get why these sets are crap in your eyes. I get it. Have you ever taught someone how to play with the current sets? Then with that being said, have you taught someone how to play on older cards afterward? The response is, the older cards, most of them are pretty lame. I wasn't even about to try to explain banding, and referred them to online rules, etc....So to "kitchen table players" like myself, these sets are golden. It allows us to encorporate some cards to our decks that make games last for an hour or so. We can sit around and drink a few or actually have a conversation while playing. If an argument breaks out, we don't get all butt hurt when we look up rules.
So with that being said, I obviously don't represent all kitchen table players. I don't represent drafters, but in my opinion this block was fun to add some cards to the mix. Could it be better? Yes. Could be much worse too! I like the conversations, the game play, the atmosphere, etc...of this game. That to me is what this block has provided; slowing down the meta to enjoy the game. Just my 2 cents, and that's probably all it's worth.
I absolutely love your point. Even though this block is "weak" it does hold appeal still as you just explained. My biggest complaint has nothing to do with the mechanics, card power level, or anything to do with tournaments. This block just had a flavor-fail for me personally. It's the same thing with Kamigawa. I love Magic as a whole, but I hate the flavor with these two blocks.
Also, as you mentioned, I hate tournament style play where the person with the deepest pockets is the winner within the first five turns. The best games I have ever played were with friends discovering new cards in our not powerful decks. My three favorite decks are my casual Eldrazi, casual dragon, and casual treefolk ones.
This block has been underwhelming for a lot of reasons, not the least of which being the legend rule change to incorporate new lands and the gods, which would have been really cool if that mattered.
We got one new legendary land.
- AND -
Almost all of the gods are too over-costed to be constructed playable, even in standard. (Limited & kitchen is another matter, but that hardly warrants a rules change if you ask me)
I'm voting with dollars, haven't bought a box of anything since RTR.
This block really shows that Wizards are really struggling to come up with new ideas. Most of the mechanics are rehashed and renamed old mechanics. Many of the cards are rehashed and renamed old cards. A lot of recent blocks have been 'Return to ....' blocks. This block was 'Copy Greek Mythology' and Innistrad was 'Copy 50's Horror Movies'.
I came back to Magic just before Innistrad after a very long break and I've been very unimpressed by all of the sets that have been released since I started playing again. I really dislike how every set is four or five insanely good Mythic cards and the rest is pure crap. I'm sure marketing research told them that that was the best way to sell boxes, but it sure as hell isn't working on me. I haven't bought a booster pack since Visions. Back in those days, sets would have some really good commons, some really good uncommons, and some really good rares. You could buy some packs and get playable stuff. Now, you're playing the lottery when you buy a box and hoping you get that one fifty dollar mythic everyone wants. I think they should probably drop the three-set block thing and go back to doing one-off expansions like they used to. I think the design teams are just stretching themselves too thin trying to come up with so many cards each year. I also think they should drop the 'we have to come up with brand new mechanics every set' thing because, clearly, they're having a hard time doing that. I don't think anyone would complain if they brought back good mechanics from older sets.
While I do not agree with you with the totality of your post, I agree with what I have bolded. In particular, I would love them to do more mix-and-match of returning mechanics. To me it seems strange that Wizards will limit themselves to not use the existing synergies between good mechanics. What if "returning mechanic#1" is in the autumn set, "returning mechanic #2" is in the midwinter set and then they could both be combined in the spring set?
On flavour: I have personally enjoyed the flavour of the block. Although I see where the people who think it is "boring" and "too similar" to Greek myths rather than "inspired by", I am happy to have King Midas and Atlas in Magic. They are cool, which to me is more important than whether they are original.
I have enjoyed the limited mostly, however there are a few too many times where I have found that there is a threat on the other side of the table and I know that there are exactly zero answers in my deck. This can happen in all environments of course, and correlates with my "average" draft skills; however, the lack of removal was hurtful at times.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
I actually this JOU looks decent compared to the last two set. It still isn't that great but it at least looks ok and could be fun to play. But man o' man was BNG bad. I wish they had done constilation along with bestowed through the entire block. I would say that this block is the worst block in the modern card pool, debatable with Kamigawa block. I've been playing since TSP and this is the first time that I have really been fully dissapointed with a block. But there is alway next year so I'll hope for fun to come in the future.
As someone who knows a decent amount of Japanese history and lore, Kamigawa is to the Japanese what Theros is to the Americans/English/etc. The major problem I had with both of these blocks is that it looks like history+actual mythology. I can open up a history book and see samurai, Greek soldiers, and even picture representations of their culture's respective myths. The best Magic blocks (flavor-wise)take from several sources and aren't complete ripoffs (Zendikar, Shards, Scars of Mirrodan, Ravnica, etc.). Zendikar is my personal favorite because they took HP Lovecraft's ideas about inter-dimensional monsters and put their own spin on it that works out perfectly in-multiverse. Kamigawa and Theros are more along the lines of copy-paste. That's one reason why people dislike them. The power-level for many (not all) of the cards in these blocks is fairly low too. I would never buy and open a Theros or Kamigawa pack. I only buy singles from either one. Other blocks I have bought and loved opening boosters. These blocks are a fail. Not the worst things ever, but they hold no lasting appeal. Sometimes I envision Eldrazi and Phyrexians invading over the horizon, or what it would be like to live on Jund, or how I would interact within a guild on Ravnica. Theros = I can't relate to it. Disclaimer: most of this is my opinion. Don't hate on my for it. If you have a real rebuttal I would love to hear it.
Funny, to me it's actually the opposite - I love "real life" settings rather than the weird but unique ones. Mirage (Africa, awesome), Kamigawa (Japan, awesome), Theros (Greece, awesome), what's not to like? It gives me something familiar, something I can already relate to. Innistrad was similar in that regard as it borrowed a lot from classical horror. It also makes easier to describe the settings. How do you describe Alara? Or Zendikar? Mirrodin? Alara is... uh.. a mish mash of random worlds. Zendikar is an... adventure world? What does that even mean? And Mirrodin? What are robots doing in my fantasy?
Many people compare Theros to Kamigawa. I love them both, but Kamigawa wins hands down, as it had both interesting mechanics and flavor. The only thing Theros has going for it, is its flavor. Say what you will about the mechanics like Soulshift, Splice, Offering and Channel, but I found them hundred times more interesting than bland mechanics like heroic, constellation and inspired. Ugh.
So, in conclusion: Wizards, do more real life settings! Mesoamerican, Nordic, Indian, Egyptian and Sumeran settings would be awesome.
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As someone who knows a decent amount of Japanese history and lore, Kamigawa is to the Japanese what Theros is to the Americans/English/etc. The major problem I had with both of these blocks is that it looks like history+actual mythology. I can open up a history book and see samurai, Greek soldiers, and even picture representations of their culture's respective myths. The best Magic blocks (flavor-wise)take from several sources and aren't complete ripoffs (Zendikar, Shards, Scars of Mirrodan, Ravnica, etc.). Zendikar is my personal favorite because they took HP Lovecraft's ideas about inter-dimensional monsters and put their own spin on it that works out perfectly in-multiverse. Kamigawa and Theros are more along the lines of copy-paste. That's one reason why people dislike them. The power-level for many (not all) of the cards in these blocks is fairly low too. I would never buy and open a Theros or Kamigawa pack. I only buy singles from either one. Other blocks I have bought and loved opening boosters. These blocks are a fail. Not the worst things ever, but they hold no lasting appeal. Sometimes I envision Eldrazi and Phyrexians invading over the horizon, or what it would be like to live on Jund, or how I would interact within a guild on Ravnica. Theros = I can't relate to it. Disclaimer: most of this is my opinion. Don't hate on my for it. If you have a real rebuttal I would love to hear it.
Funny, to me it's actually the opposite - I love "real life" settings rather than the weird but unique ones. Mirage (Africa, awesome), Kamigawa (Japan, awesome), Theros (Greece, awesome), what's not to like? It gives me something familiar, something I can already relate to. Innistrad was similar in that regard as it borrowed a lot from classical horror. It also makes easier to describe the settings. How do you describe Alara? Or Zendikar? Mirrodin? Alara is... uh.. a mish mash of random worlds. Zendikar is an... adventure world? What does that even mean? And Mirrodin? What are robots doing in my fantasy?
Many people compare Theros to Kamigawa. I love them both, but Kamigawa wins hands down, as it had both interesting mechanics and flavor. The only thing Theros has going for it, is its flavor. Say what you will about the mechanics like Soulshift, Splice, Offering and Channel, but I found them hundred times more interesting than bland mechanics like heroic, constellation and inspired. Ugh.
So, in conclusion: Wizards, do more real life settings! Mesoamerican, Nordic, Indian, Egyptian and Sumeran settings would be awesome.
As long as they can resist the temptation to make all of their awesome mechanics underpowered like they did in Kamigawa with Soulshift, Offering, and Channel. Also, why can't Magic create its own settings. We all know the story of King Midas. Why can't Magic be unique and original instead of creating a bunch of cards that are ripoffs of myths and stories in the real world.
Also, why can't Magic create its own settings. We all know the story of King Midas. Why can't Magic be unique and original instead of creating a bunch of cards that are ripoffs of myths and stories in the real world.
So players can relate to it more easily? What blocks outside of Theros, Innistrad and Kamigawa are rip offs (I'm not counting Arabian Nights as the game was still in its infancy then)? I don't know, it seems that 95% of Magic is pretty original. And then we have one block based on "real life" and suddenly the sky is falling.
Besides, if you don't do references from real world in a Greek themed block, people would complain that it doesn't feel Greek enough.
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Also, why can't Magic create its own settings. We all know the story of King Midas. Why can't Magic be unique and original instead of creating a bunch of cards that are ripoffs of myths and stories in the real world.
So players can relate to it more easily? What blocks outside of Theros, Innistrad and Kamigawa are rip offs (I'm not counting Arabian Nights as the game was still in its infancy then)? I don't know, it seems that 95% of Magic is pretty original. And then we have one block based on "real life" and suddenly the sky is falling.
Besides, if you don't do references from real world in a Greek themed block, people would complain that it doesn't feel Greek enough.
I agree that most of Magic is original. You seemed to be complaining about the original settings and praising the ones based off of real mythology. Also, you seem to be forgetting Portal Three Kingdoms.
I agree that most of Magic is original. You seemed to be complaining about the original settings and praising the ones based off of real mythology. Also, you seem to be forgetting Portal Three Kingdoms.
Ah yes, Portal Three Kingdoms, I completely forgot about it.
Yes, I prefer "real life" settings more than the original ones. These are just my preferences. It seems that many complained about Theros being a Greek block. I'm fine with that, but I'm not fine with its mechanics. Because of that, Theros for me is not a complete failure or the "worst block ever".
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@samstod How do you decide how accessible mana is? Why a 2 mana mana-dork instead of old elvish mystic?
As a whole, we are slowly moving away from having too many one-mana accelerators at a time in Standard. Part of balancing the game and the colors is deciding on how their curve is set up, and when green is balanced in a world where we assume that all of its three-drop creatures hit the board on turn two, it makes it hard to not play decks with a ton of one-drop accelerators. Even when you do, the disparity in how a green deck plays out when it draws its one-drop and it doesn't die versus the games where it does die makes the green deck less robust as a whole. If less of green's power is in its one-drop accelerators, we can put it in other places and make green's curve a little more interesting.
Basically, we haven't seen the end of the one-mana accelerator in Standard, but you will probably not see a Standard that looked like Innistrad-Magic 2014 Standard, with three different one-drop possibilities.
My response: Green is doing so well! Thanks for Lifebane Zombie!
@samstod What did you want to do with constellation but couldn't for power reasons? Why no Serum Visions/other 1cmc u cantrip?
In terms of the 1-CMC U cantrip, we didn't want to create a new one (as that could cause problems in Modern), but also felt like we didn't need one for Standard—so we left it out.
They could have reprinted an old one. UW control is already doing well enough, a serum visions would be great but wouldn't ruin the format, and would probably save face in standard with thoughtseize. There's no delver, no miracles, etc. Funny how they treat modern.
For Constructed, our goal is to attempt to make sure there are enough decks of different archetypes available that the environment can constantly shift, and that everyone can find something they are good at. Within that, we want there to be a mix of decks that are high-variance, high-reward (think the deck from last year), as well as decks that are very low-variance (generally, control decks), as well as everything in between. If people want to sign up for a high-variance or a low-variance deck, they can.
Both came out lackluster.
Tribute: I like a good punisher-mechanic but overall it just turned out awkward. So instead of getting a Fact or Fiction-type of feeling (Steam Augury would fit better I know) it just felt like you paid for an effect you couldn't really use on half of them. Generally overcosted made the punisher-mechanic work too much against you.
Heroic: I really liked the concept behind the ability. I wished it was possible to let some abilities affect them too but then we run into Daru Spiritualist-problems. Promising mechanic but without proper support.
Bestow: Biggest letdown in the entire block regarding mechanics. High hopes and expectations. Wizards delivered high mana costs and lazy design equals of "lets staple this creature onto this creature in best Banding-resemblance".
Inspired: Poor support and limited effects made this mechanic feel uninspired and generic. Stabled onto creatures that got overcosted and/or had a poor P/T so they weren't allowed to activate it themselves just by attacking. A mechanic that requires shenanigans to work and doesn't receive them is just bland and frustrating.
Constellation: Interesting landfall mechanic. Not enough design space reserved to actually let it shine and it was kept in the basement for too long. Stabled on mostly weak overcosted creatures. In connection to Bestow's failure in competitiveness it also suffers that there are not that many targets for it to trigger on which in themselves are worth using. Feels like a desperate attempt to keep the "enchantment"-block together but IMO it fails still.
Returning mechanics:
Scry: A welcome sight, scry is always a neat mechanic to have. However the implementation feels out of place on some/most spells and sometimes comparably it overcost a card by up to +4 CMC for Scry 1.
Strive or should we say Multi-kicker: A neat mechanic as it is modal in interesting way, the trick is balancing effect and cost. Personally I think maybe two cards with Strive are interesting and the rest is just basic utility for a block to work and then there's a few bad apples. Overall a lot of the Strive-costs makes them unworthy as they basically read: Effective as single-target, pretty stretched at 2 and horrible at 3+.
Chroma, now known as Devotion: I was very excited when I found out they'd redo Chroma as I really like the mechanic but seeing as it was only printed on 9 cards shattered all over the colors back in Lorwyn and with various way to work it felt more like Future Sight where you just get a taste.
However I feel like Devotion was simplifying it too much and made it uninteresting in the way it works. Additionally that meant that certain archtypes had it really hard to justify running Devotion. It didn't help that it was basically the gods and 10 additional cards who cared about devotion throughout the entire block.
I really like when a block has interesting and foremost constructed worthy mechanics for at least FNM but I find the later part really lackluster in Theros which infuriates me considering that WotC have now toyed with these types of mechanics and there will go at least a few years before they'll return to these types again, if ever...
Overall the mechanics were too numerous in amount IMO and didn't get explored very deeply nor very creatively.
List of "dumb"/simplistic mechanics: Monstrosity, Tribute, Bestow (the effect-template, not the mechanic itself), Devotion, Strive and i want to shove in Heroic but they also had some creative uses. Most of which also feels lazy as a design.
Additional mechanics which just felt lazy: Inspired, Constellation.
List of mechanics I thought promising, purely as a mechanic:
Bestow, Heroic, Constellation, Strive and Devotion.
Here bestow in a version that has been tempered so it's not simplistic "Stable creature onto other creature" but more liberal use of the aura and creature-side of the mechanic. Devotion likewise in a more creative solution.
Overall the block felt very safe-play from Wizards' side and not very creative. It catered very much to limited environment which I feel is a double-edged sword as I want to play a fun limited environment but likewise I'd like to use those cards afterwards instead of throwing them in the bin.
I was completely fine with the power reduction but didn't expect it to go somewhat cold turkey. It really feels like we're at a very low point now.
Overall verdict: I didn't purchase any product and is not particularly interested in the block. I like Greek myth but Theros just leaves me with a hollow feeling. It probably wanted to stir something in me but all it did was itch me, getting my hopes up and subsequently disappoint.
I just look forward to the next block and Core Set and will remember this block as a close to power-reset in terms of creativity and effects.
However I may just be too biased by Lorwyn's tribal theme where mechanics actually were constructed worthy for FNM and creatures didn't had to be good P/T-wise but just had effects to cover up - sometimes less is more. I choose to block out the few mistakes Wizards made with the Faerie-tribe that skewed the meta and remember the blocks for what it otherwise represented.
Someone from Wizards said "I think people will look back on Theros as an Enchantment-block" - I disagree and think they'll recall it as the Greek-themed God block.
Dictate of Heliod - Beautiful art and such a fun battle trick on an amazing global enchantment
Launch the Fleet feels like the Iliad summed up into one card
Loved the Font cycle
Hypnotic Siren will make some noise in EDH, Draft and perhaps Standard. Def amazing in casual.
Pull From the Deep - my favorite card since AVR
Scourge of Fleets, a Starfish and a Nautilus, what's not to love?
Thassa's Ire is such a fluid card, loving it.
Hall of Triumph is a long overdue card and a great one
Nyx-Fleece Ram's art!
The art overall is perfect, and I love the theme. I think in general some cards could have been more aggressively costed but I thought BNG, while weaker, had some standout gems in it like Plea for Guidance and Vortex Elemental.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
BEEEES!
Rabble Red
Modern
Burn
Infect
This. Imo, it's cheap and unimaginative design. I can only hope that the next block comes with more interesting cards and mechanics.
A Greek influenced block should be that, INFLUENCED. Not just changing names of legends, and people from Greek Mythology.
Here's King
MidasEr, I mean Macar! Oh and this totally unique and originalTrojan Hors...Akroan HORSE! The entire block is just filled with that crap. I read online that was one of the reason Kamigawa wasn't well received, but at least it did a good job of not just Copy and pasting Myths.Terrible block flavor wise, mediocre block card wise.
As for Standard, there seems to be a good number of cards that could see a lot of play.
Master of Feasts / Gnarled Scarhide - Could push black-based aggro decks over the top.
Mana Confluence - Makes it easier for people to greedy-up their manabases
Eidolon of the Great Revel - Being a red player, I'm really excited for this card. Kinda double-sided but still pretty solid all around.
Banishing Light - You really can't go wrong with O.Ring variants
Nyx-Fleece Ram - Very annoying for aggressive players
Hypnotic Siren - I think Mono U just got a fine new addition
Battlefield Thaumaturge / Sage of Hours - If U/X heroic decks become a thing, these two would be major players
Brain Maggot - Another solid addition for the mono-black deck. May replace Duress in Sideboards?
The set has pretty cool cards for Commander players as well specifically the Dictates.
At least in Kamigawa, most of the people didn't know the myths. In Theros everyone can tell when a card is just a copy of a myth.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
As someone who knows a decent amount of Japanese history and lore, Kamigawa is to the Japanese what Theros is to the Americans/English/etc. The major problem I had with both of these blocks is that it looks like history+actual mythology. I can open up a history book and see samurai, Greek soldiers, and even picture representations of their culture's respective myths. The best Magic blocks (flavor-wise)take from several sources and aren't complete ripoffs (Zendikar, Shards, Scars of Mirrodan, Ravnica, etc.). Zendikar is my personal favorite because they took HP Lovecraft's ideas about inter-dimensional monsters and put their own spin on it that works out perfectly in-multiverse. Kamigawa and Theros are more along the lines of copy-paste. That's one reason why people dislike them. The power-level for many (not all) of the cards in these blocks is fairly low too. I would never buy and open a Theros or Kamigawa pack. I only buy singles from either one. Other blocks I have bought and loved opening boosters. These blocks are a fail. Not the worst things ever, but they hold no lasting appeal. Sometimes I envision Eldrazi and Phyrexians invading over the horizon, or what it would be like to live on Jund, or how I would interact within a guild on Ravnica. Theros = I can't relate to it. Disclaimer: most of this is my opinion. Don't hate on my for it. If you have a real rebuttal I would love to hear it.
So with that being said, I obviously don't represent all kitchen table players. I don't represent drafters, but in my opinion this block was fun to add some cards to the mix. Could it be better? Yes. Could be much worse too! I like the conversations, the game play, the atmosphere, etc...of this game. That to me is what this block has provided; slowing down the meta to enjoy the game. Just my 2 cents, and that's probably all it's worth.
I absolutely love your point. Even though this block is "weak" it does hold appeal still as you just explained. My biggest complaint has nothing to do with the mechanics, card power level, or anything to do with tournaments. This block just had a flavor-fail for me personally. It's the same thing with Kamigawa. I love Magic as a whole, but I hate the flavor with these two blocks.
Also, as you mentioned, I hate tournament style play where the person with the deepest pockets is the winner within the first five turns. The best games I have ever played were with friends discovering new cards in our not powerful decks. My three favorite decks are my casual Eldrazi, casual dragon, and casual treefolk ones.
We got one new legendary land.
- AND -
Almost all of the gods are too over-costed to be constructed playable, even in standard. (Limited & kitchen is another matter, but that hardly warrants a rules change if you ask me)
I'm voting with dollars, haven't bought a box of anything since RTR.
While I do not agree with you with the totality of your post, I agree with what I have bolded. In particular, I would love them to do more mix-and-match of returning mechanics. To me it seems strange that Wizards will limit themselves to not use the existing synergies between good mechanics. What if "returning mechanic#1" is in the autumn set, "returning mechanic #2" is in the midwinter set and then they could both be combined in the spring set?
On flavour: I have personally enjoyed the flavour of the block. Although I see where the people who think it is "boring" and "too similar" to Greek myths rather than "inspired by", I am happy to have King Midas and Atlas in Magic. They are cool, which to me is more important than whether they are original.
I have enjoyed the limited mostly, however there are a few too many times where I have found that there is a threat on the other side of the table and I know that there are exactly zero answers in my deck. This can happen in all environments of course, and correlates with my "average" draft skills; however, the lack of removal was hurtful at times.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Avacyn Restored had many playable cards too, but it really doesn't take much to be the best 3rd set since New Phyrexia.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/360-bitterblossom-and-mistbind-clique-looking-to-trade
Funny, to me it's actually the opposite - I love "real life" settings rather than the weird but unique ones. Mirage (Africa, awesome), Kamigawa (Japan, awesome), Theros (Greece, awesome), what's not to like? It gives me something familiar, something I can already relate to. Innistrad was similar in that regard as it borrowed a lot from classical horror. It also makes easier to describe the settings. How do you describe Alara? Or Zendikar? Mirrodin? Alara is... uh.. a mish mash of random worlds. Zendikar is an... adventure world? What does that even mean? And Mirrodin? What are robots doing in my fantasy?
Many people compare Theros to Kamigawa. I love them both, but Kamigawa wins hands down, as it had both interesting mechanics and flavor. The only thing Theros has going for it, is its flavor. Say what you will about the mechanics like Soulshift, Splice, Offering and Channel, but I found them hundred times more interesting than bland mechanics like heroic, constellation and inspired. Ugh.
So, in conclusion: Wizards, do more real life settings! Mesoamerican, Nordic, Indian, Egyptian and Sumeran settings would be awesome.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
As long as they can resist the temptation to make all of their awesome mechanics underpowered like they did in Kamigawa with Soulshift, Offering, and Channel. Also, why can't Magic create its own settings. We all know the story of King Midas. Why can't Magic be unique and original instead of creating a bunch of cards that are ripoffs of myths and stories in the real world.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
So players can relate to it more easily? What blocks outside of Theros, Innistrad and Kamigawa are rip offs (I'm not counting Arabian Nights as the game was still in its infancy then)? I don't know, it seems that 95% of Magic is pretty original. And then we have one block based on "real life" and suddenly the sky is falling.
Besides, if you don't do references from real world in a Greek themed block, people would complain that it doesn't feel Greek enough.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
I agree that most of Magic is original. You seemed to be complaining about the original settings and praising the ones based off of real mythology. Also, you seem to be forgetting Portal Three Kingdoms.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Ah yes, Portal Three Kingdoms, I completely forgot about it.
Yes, I prefer "real life" settings more than the original ones. These are just my preferences. It seems that many complained about Theros being a Greek block. I'm fine with that, but I'm not fine with its mechanics. Because of that, Theros for me is not a complete failure or the "worst block ever".
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
Here are some replies to questions on Twitter
My response: Green is doing so well! Thanks for Lifebane Zombie!
They could have reprinted an old one. UW control is already doing well enough, a serum visions would be great but wouldn't ruin the format, and would probably save face in standard with thoughtseize. There's no delver, no miracles, etc. Funny how they treat modern.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/format-staples/standard
Mutavault 70.93% of decks
Thoughtseize 54.98% of decks
Lifebane Zombie 43.61% of decks