Unless you're a monoblue player or potentially discussing Block Constructed, I can't understand the overreaction to this card. It's impact in the vast majority of games will be that of Wear // Tear, Disenchant, etc.
It's very powerful. I like it a lot. I feel bad for the Thassa decks. It is a bit of a fun killer, but its effect is being vastly overstated in this thread.
The issue with this card isn't that it flavorfully slays Gods. It that it oppresses a central set mechanic at no opportunity cost. If you want to make this a 2W Instant or 1W Sorcery, sure, go for it. Or even better, 1W Instant "Exile target God, then do a bunch of *****". That way, when you commit Deicide, you're committing ******* Deicide, not just holding a buffed Revoke Existence and then weaseling 4 copies of Thassa, God of the Sea out of your opponent's deck.
But making the card this much better than Revoke Existence (which was already good enough to see play in U/W Control and B/W Midrange) is absurd. I tailor went through playable artifacts in Standard, even judiciously considering brew jank like Haunted Plate Mail, Akroan Horse and Pyromancer's Gauntlet (which have POSSIBLE potential, unlike something like Anvilwrought Raptor) and found that, well, missing artifacts is almost completely irrelevant. The best Artifacts in Standard are Legendary Enchantment Artifacts (get slammed by this), Ratchet Bomb, and Pithing Needle...
You also have to think of this set in terms of brewer's blues. Remember that beyond Spikes who just want to cast Sphinx's Revelation until their fingers bleed, there are people who see interesting, build-around cards and try to make decks with them. And what's more interesting than 5/5, Indestructible Gods with super flavorful and powerful abilities? Not much, but imagine getting your Phenax, God of Deception smacked with this at the kitchen table. Probably feels like *****.
And this isn't Slaughter Games. That's not all it does. It's premium enchantment removal (Erase +1 colorless, but in an enchantment block)! If you're playing against GB Constellation (if that even is a deck) this is like a super, exiling Doom Blade. That incidentally hoses Gods! Ugh.
I mean, this isn't Mindreaver bad or anything. JOU is still looking awesome. But I'm a bit sour. As many writers have noted before, Wizards keeps printing mediocre threats (4-5 Mana do nothings, 3 Mana creatures that are actually control cards, etc) and obnoxious answers. Cards like Thoughtseize, Deicide, Detention Sphere, Supreme Verdict cover so many angles by themselves. This is the next in the line of those cards, here to oppress your ability to do anything proactive while you get buried in Revelations.
Unless you're a monoblue player or potentially discussing Block Constructed, I can't understand the overreaction to this card. It's impact in the vast majority of games will be that of Wear // Tear, Disenchant, etc.
It's very powerful. I like it a lot. I feel bad for the Thassa decks. It is a bit of a fun killer, but its effect is being vastly overstated in this thread.
That's part of the problem though. The deities aren't as playable as they should be if they're the format-defining cards that WotC advertises them as. They're simply not strong enough to warrant this level of hate. Now that there's such a powerful hate card out, this supposed staple of the format will likely never see the light of day, even post rotation.
That's part of the problem though. The deities aren't as playable as they should be if they're the format-defining cards that WotC advertises them as. They're simply not strong enough to warrant this level of hate. Now that there's such a powerful hate card out, this supposed staple of the format will likely never see the light of day, even post rotation.
The part I bolded is a separate issue. The majority of the Gods aren't playable to begin with. This card doesn't change that. If their constructed play value was already zero, then this card does nothing to change that. Most of the time this card is going to be disenchant with some upside. I agree that it's powerful. I disagree that it will have nearly the impact people are suggesting.
If the Gods were running rampant, then I could understand the hurt feelings. The fact is most Gods are already bad, and this card doesn't change that. People won't stop playing Gods because of this card, because most of them aren't worth playing to begin with.
The reason hate exists is to prevent strategies from becoming degenerate. If, as you say, the gods aren't that powerful, then this specific and powerful of hate is unwarranted. For example, do you think it would make sense to print the following card...
Erase Anoyance 1U
Instant
Return target creature to its owner's hand. If that creature is named Chimney Imp, search that players library hand and graveyard for all cards named chimney imp and exile them.
Obviously, wizards would never print this card, but it helps to clarify my point. Printing very powerful and specific hate against things that aren't particularly powerful is stupid... I don't think anyone here has called deicide broken. I don't even think it's particularly powerful. I just think it is bad design...
P.S. Is anyone else concerned that, right now, the only color without a decent answer to the gods is red?
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
I love it, I play U/B Control, and already splashed white for Merciless Eviction MD, Blood Baron and 2x Revoke Existence SB, and I was considering taking out the 2 white sorceries. Now I get it at instant speed for the exact card I was targetting? You threw in a Lobotomy kicker on the end for FREE? Wizards, I love you too!
And for all the players screaming about hate cards, watch how good they work when people don't get to their Deicide in time to matter. You've got your pick of 3 Gods in 2 color, and 6 Gods in 3 Color. MonoU isn't overly reliant on Thassa, MonoB barely uses Erebos. This makes things fair. Especially since it can rip the god out of your hand and library. None of the other Theros Block answers come even close to this, seeing as 2 of those 5 spells put it in the GY, 2 exile a single copy at Sorcery speed, and that last one puts it back in the library nd shuffles, which could turn around and put it back on the top anyway. Aggro players continued to tell Control players Things like "Quit whining" when game swinging creatures like Craterhoof Behemoth dropped, and if we didn't have a counter, there was nothing to do but take the loss. Or when things like Thragtusk EtB and LtB with something to show for it. Now we get to rip your precious little god of the field and out of your library and these guys are all like "No fair!" and "It's unfun". It's unfun if you don't care to do something like this with a spell. It's about time you learn that, despite how I have felt about this in the past, Wizards prints cards for everybody. Use the ones you want, and deal with the ones you don't wanna see. Seems fair to me. Btw, a simple card like Ranger's Guile Counters this. You have answers too, start playing magic.
Also, I don't understand why this card isn't Black? It seem pretty metal for a Magic Card.
All you're doing is arguing for how good the card is at what it does. Yes, it's a powerful hate card against its target. No one's denying that.
The problem is where I bolded your statement. The deities are supposed to be the format-defining powerhouses, but even without much hate they're not seeing a ton of play. There's one deck built almost entirely around Thassa . . . and that's it. Xenagos shows up in a tier 2 deck I guess, but the other major devotion option, Mono B, doesn't even run Erebos. Mogis showed up in BWR control decks early but was hardly necessary, and that deck fell out of favor fairly fast.
I'm with everyone else. This is a powerful hate card against cards that didn't need hating on. They were supposed to be a significant presence in standard, they arguably weren't as much as they should have been, and now if you build around them (as you must to trigger devotion), you risk getting blown out by one sideboard card.
I love it, I play U/B Control, and already splashed white for Merciless Eviction MD, Blood Baron and 2x Revoke Existence SB, and I was considering taking out the 2 white sorceries. Now I get it at instant speed for the exact card I was targetting? You threw in a Lobotomy kicker on the end for FREE? Wizards, I love you too!
And for all the players screaming about hate cards, watch how good they work when people don't get to their Deicide in time to matter. You've got your pick of 3 Gods in 2 color, and 6 Gods in 3 Color. MonoU isn't overly reliant on Thassa, MonoB barely uses Erebos. This makes things fair. Especially since it can rip the god out of your hand and library. None of the other Theros Block answers come even close to this, seeing as 2 of those 5 spells put it in the GY, 2 exile a single copy at Sorcery speed, and that last one puts it back in the library nd shuffles, which could turn around and put it back on the top anyway. Aggro players continued to tell Control players Things like "Quit whining" when game swinging creatures like Craterhoof Behemoth dropped, and if we didn't have a counter, there was nothing to do but take the loss. Or when things like Thragtusk EtB and LtB with something to show for it. Now we get to rip your precious little god of the field and out of your library and these guys are all like "No fair!" and "It's unfun". It's unfun if you don't care to do something like this with a spell. It's about time you learn that, despite how I have felt about this in the past, Wizards prints cards for everybody. Use the ones you want, and deal with the ones you don't wanna see. Seems fair to me. Btw, a simple card like Ranger's Guile Counters this. You have answers too, start playing magic.
Also, I don't understand why this card isn't Black? It seem pretty metal for a Magic Card.
Except rangers guile only works when the god is devoted... Your hate works all the time
SO, wizards is supposed to make gods warp the format, and no one is allowed to have an answer for them? And Slaughter Games isn't unfun? This isn't slaughter games. Dispel. That is all.
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The reason hate exists is to prevent strategies from becoming degenerate. If, as you say, the gods aren't that powerful, then this specific and powerful of hate is unwarranted. For example, do you think it would make sense to print the following card...
Erase Anoyance 1U
Instant
Return target creature to its owner's hand. If that creature is named Chimney Imp, search that players library hand and graveyard for all cards named chimney imp and exile them.
Obviously, wizards would never print this card, but it helps to clarify my point. Printing very powerful and specific hate against things that aren't particularly powerful is stupid... I don't think anyone here has called deicide broken. I don't even think it's particularly powerful. I just think it is bad design...
P.S. Is anyone else concerned that, right now, the only color without a decent answer to the gods is red?
I agree that we don't need this card. For that reason, I doubt it sees significant play beyond the usual enchantment hate the format may require. At the same time, the Gods will continue to see minimal play as well. So we've got a bunch of cards no one wants to play in constructed. That's nothing new. This may be just another one of those cards - nothing to get worked up about and hardly any worse design than countless other examples over the years.
Of course, if we do have some sort of format defining enchantment-based deck arise, all of that may very well change.
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Currently playing:
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
This is my favorite card in the set so far. Yes it's powerful, but is it really more powerful than an indestructible 5/5 for 3 that also lets you scry every turn? No. This card will make decks that play a pile of draft cards solely to activate a god look pretty silly.
I feel like this is pretty much a stab at Mono U, but if this is really your favorite card in the set you havethe blandest taste. Good thing about mono U and it's "Draft Cards" is that deck is based off the synergy of Thassa/Bident.
When I read this spoiler I actually physically cringed. Introduce exciting innovative cards (heh chroma-creature is pretty innovative I guess *rolleyes*) that people obviously would love to play and add a card that completely hoses them? There is already a multitude of different answers to gods, most of which have already been brought up, revoke existence at instant with a little upside is good, this card is absolute *****.
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"A man is but a product of his thoughts. What he thinks he becomes."
"SO, wizards is supposed to make gods warp the format, and no one is allowed to have an answer for them? And Slaughter Games isn't unfun? This isn't slaughter games. Dispel. That is all."
Even Jace, the Mind Sculptor didn't get this level of treatment (Despise, Hex Parasite, heh none of these cards stopped it), and I think we can all agree that the Gods didn't do what JTMS did to the format. Playable Gods in a Greek-themed block is a good thing. And only 5/15 really saw play anyways. The frontunner, Thassa, is a 4-of in a deck full of *****ty draft birds, a deck that gets slammed by Control and Mono-Black.
"SO, wizards is supposed to make gods warp the format, and no one is allowed to have an answer for them? And Slaughter Games isn't unfun? This isn't slaughter games. Dispel. That is all."
Even Jace, the Mind Sculptor didn't get this level of treatment (Despise, Hex Parasite, heh none of these cards stopped it), and I think we can all agree that the Gods didn't do what JTMS did to the format. Playable Gods in a Greek-themed block is a good thing. And only 5/15 really saw play anyways. The frontunner, Thassa, is a 4-of in a deck full of *****ty draft birds, a deck that gets slammed by Control and Mono-Black.
So why are we printing this ***** again?
Yeah, I think it was pretty greedy of Wizards to print this premier rare removal that pretty much hoses MUD decks, especially since it affects all enchantments. White decks have revoke existence and they're getting banishing light, and 60% of white decks use blue for detention sphere. So my problems are that 1) White didn't need this card because it has a handful and 2) It's a slap in the face to decks that want to use Gods
"SO, wizards is supposed to make gods warp the format, and no one is allowed to have an answer for them? And Slaughter Games isn't unfun? This isn't slaughter games. Dispel. That is all."
Even Jace, the Mind Sculptor didn't get this level of treatment (Despise, Hex Parasite, heh none of these cards stopped it), and I think we can all agree that the Gods didn't do what JTMS did to the format. Playable Gods in a Greek-themed block is a good thing. And only 5/15 really saw play anyways. The frontunner, Thassa, is a 4-of in a deck full of *****ty draft birds, a deck that gets slammed by Control and Mono-Black.
So why are we printing this ***** again?
Remember that sets are made in advance and that cant foresee meta development 100%. I mean they never thought that Mono-Blue would ever be a Tier 1 deck in the first place for example.
"SO, wizards is supposed to make gods warp the format, and no one is allowed to have an answer for them? And Slaughter Games isn't unfun? This isn't slaughter games. Dispel. That is all."
Even Jace, the Mind Sculptor didn't get this level of treatment (Despise, Hex Parasite, heh none of these cards stopped it), and I think we can all agree that the Gods didn't do what JTMS did to the format. Playable Gods in a Greek-themed block is a good thing. And only 5/15 really saw play anyways. The frontunner, Thassa, is a 4-of in a deck full of *****ty draft birds, a deck that gets slammed by Control and Mono-Black.
So why are we printing this ***** again?
I* didn't know people could get so upset about a fringe sideboard card that shuts down 0 archetypes. No, this isn't a silver bullet vs anyone since no deck, not even mono blue, relies all that much on having a God out.
"SO, wizards is supposed to make gods warp the format, and no one is allowed to have an answer for them? And Slaughter Games isn't unfun? This isn't slaughter games. Dispel. That is all."
Even Jace, the Mind Sculptor didn't get this level of treatment (Despise, Hex Parasite, heh none of these cards stopped it), and I think we can all agree that the Gods didn't do what JTMS did to the format. Playable Gods in a Greek-themed block is a good thing. And only 5/15 really saw play anyways. The frontunner, Thassa, is a 4-of in a deck full of *****ty draft birds, a deck that gets slammed by Control and Mono-Black.
So why are we printing this ***** again?
I* didn't know people could get so upset about a fringe sideboard card that shuts down 0 archetypes. No, this isn't a silver bullet vs anyone since no deck, not even mono blue, relies all that much on having a God out.
Lol are you joking? Every MUD deck relies on 4 thassa, for the scry, the 5/5 and the cheap unblockable ability. This hits thassa (one hits all) and bident. That leaves them with mediocre weenies and MoW which is fragile to every color except red. This definitely shuts down MUD.
I* didn't know people could get so upset about a fringe sideboard card that shuts down 0 archetypes. No, this isn't a silver bullet vs anyone since no deck, not even mono blue, relies all that much on having a God out.
Mono blue really does rely on Thassa more than you think. Master of Waves normally ends the matches, but I cannot tell you how many times unblock-ability on a Frostburn weird has ended games. Looks like a one way track to the removal train, time to sleeve up the Heros' Downfalls.
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"A man is but a product of his thoughts. What he thinks he becomes."
exactly, this card (and this whole set in fact) has downfalled the hero which was mono blue. I loved the deck, I finally got to play (and win a games day) with a deck which is fun to pilot due to synergy. Time to pull out esper humans I guess.
I dont think this is the end all to mono U since the only decks playing this card will mostly be Esper and esper was aleady a pretty one-sided match up for Mono U. When you look at the meta right now, white has not been played that much outside of Esper/UW control, BW Midrange, Boros Burn (which you would rather see this over a burn spell) and the Mono U splashing for White. Also, decks wont side more than 2 of these, so its not really going to happen as often as you would think.
I think what will happen is the same effect that Bile Blight had on Pack Rat. People will just be boarding Dispels/Negates and having to play their Thassa's differently. You cant run out a Thassa anymore without any protection basically or against anything with White mana. Everyone thought Bile Blight would ruin Pack Rat, but here we are, 6 major tournaments later where Mono Black has won back to back with 4 Pack Rats. People just adapted, this card is strong but definitely not the nail in the coffin for any god based deck.
I dont think this is the end all to mono U since the only decks playing this card will mostly be Esper and esper was aleady a pretty one-sided match up for Mono U. When you look at the meta right now, white has not been played that much outside of Esper/UW control, BW Midrange, Boros Burn (which you would rather see this over a burn spell) and the Mono U splashing for White. Also, decks wont side more than 2 of these, so its not really going to happen as often as you would think.
I think what will happen is the same effect that Bile Blight had on Pack Rat. People will just be boarding Dispels/Negates and having to play their Thassa's differently. You cant run out a Thassa anymore without any protection basically or against anything with White mana. Everyone thought Bile Blight would ruin Pack Rat, but here we are, 6 major tournaments later where Mono Black has won back to back with 4 Pack Rats. People just adapted, this card is strong but definitely not the nail in the coffin for any god based deck.
"Says bile blight hasn't killed Pack rat easily, doesn't notice bile blight only sees play in mono black." All bile blight does right now is help black.
I dont think this is the end all to mono U since the only decks playing this card will mostly be Esper and esper was aleady a pretty one-sided match up for Mono U. When you look at the meta right now, white has not been played that much outside of Esper/UW control, BW Midrange, Boros Burn (which you would rather see this over a burn spell) and the Mono U splashing for White. Also, decks wont side more than 2 of these, so its not really going to happen as often as you would think.
I think what will happen is the same effect that Bile Blight had on Pack Rat. People will just be boarding Dispels/Negates and having to play their Thassa's differently. You cant run out a Thassa anymore without any protection basically or against anything with White mana. Everyone thought Bile Blight would ruin Pack Rat, but here we are, 6 major tournaments later where Mono Black has won back to back with 4 Pack Rats. People just adapted, this card is strong but definitely not the nail in the coffin for any god based deck.
"Says bile blight hasn't killed Pack rat easily, doesn't notice bile blight only sees play in mono black." All bile blight does right now is help black.
What difference does that make that black can only play it? Mono Black was the most played deck pre-BNG. It was thought when BNG came out that Pack Rat had to be cut down, taken out, or players had to switch to a more pure control deck like Orzhov Control or Rakdos Control. Pack Rat was basically one of Mono Black's win conditions, which is why people thought with Bile Blight it would go away.
But that obviously didnt happen. Pack Rat is still insane. Just like Thassa is still very good. Maybe more players will have to switch to U/w devo, cut 1 Thassa for an Ephara, or just main Syncopates like Sam Black did. The deck wouldnt be so good if Thassa was all that it got. Its the best aggro deck in the format since it's cards outclass any other aggro deck and has multiple ways to attack decks. You just cant mindlessly run out a Thassa anymore or have to sideboard in cards to protect it in certain match ups. There not always going to have Deicide to answer it nor will they be playing white to support it.
MonoU Dev can win without Thassa. And stop calling it MUD, it's confusing as crap, since MUD is a COMPLETELY different archetype.
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It was hated out of BNG? How So? Ephara, God of the Polis and Thassa's Rebuff Seemed pretty pro MonoU Dev. I can see Revoke Existence as an anti-MonoU card, but other than that, I'm not seeing your meaning.
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You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
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It was hated out of BNG? How So? Ephara, God of the Polis and Thassa's Rebuff Seemed pretty pro MonoU Dev. I can see Revoke Existence as an anti-MonoU card, but other than that, I'm not seeing your meaning.
In truth, it was hated out of Theros pretty well originally. MUD had a few good weeks at the beginning of the format, then people started playing MBD and black pretty much just beat blue. The only thing black couldn't deal with easily was a resolved thassa. BNG provided even more tools to support MBD and also provided some support for WUB control. All MUD got was Ephara. Ephara is good but doesn't do anything special to help MUD against MBD or WUB. With MBD such a large part of the format, an orzhov deck that is functionally an MBD deck that splashes white for sideboard revoke existence and mainboard MBD hate put the final nail in MUDs coffin. MUD is still a good deck, and if a tournament isn't expecting it, MUD can do well, but at this point its really a T1.2 deck. It still sees significant play though and can do well....
EDIT: On the other hand, I'm Jon Snow, so.....
EDITEDIT: thassa's rebuff is terrible. It's a conditional and soft counterspell. Don't run it...
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
"SO, wizards is supposed to make gods warp the format, and no one is allowed to have an answer for them? And Slaughter Games isn't unfun? This isn't slaughter games. Dispel. That is all."
Even Jace, the Mind Sculptor didn't get this level of treatment (Despise, Hex Parasite, heh none of these cards stopped it), and I think we can all agree that the Gods didn't do what JTMS did to the format. Playable Gods in a Greek-themed block is a good thing. And only 5/15 really saw play anyways. The frontunner, Thassa, is a 4-of in a deck full of *****ty draft birds, a deck that gets slammed by Control and Mono-Black.
So why are we printing this ***** again?
I* didn't know people could get so upset about a fringe sideboard card that shuts down 0 archetypes. No, this isn't a silver bullet vs anyone since no deck, not even mono blue, relies all that much on having a God out.
I'm upset about it not because I'm a Mono-Blue player or playing 4 Heliods or whatever. I'm just upset because it's bad design. Slaughter Games and its variants are well-designed Magic cards; for 4 Mana and the cost of not impacting the board, you can directly cut a piece of your opponent's strategy. With this card? You're just playing Erase (+1 colorless, but in an Enchantment block) that incidentally picks up all Gods. Sometimes you'll get a 1-for-1 or 2-for-1, but often times it's "Sphinx's Revelation" while the control player reveals a hand of 0 Sphinx, lands and removal. Then you clean up their deck and have pseudo Time Walked yourself.
Bad threats, perfect answers, boring Standard. 53+% Thoughtseize meta, with mass 4-ofs, weak synergies, and mass Mono-Black. 70+% decks playing Mutavault. We've been here before.
"SO, wizards is supposed to make gods warp the format, and no one is allowed to have an answer for them? And Slaughter Games isn't unfun? This isn't slaughter games. Dispel. That is all."
Even Jace, the Mind Sculptor didn't get this level of treatment (Despise, Hex Parasite, heh none of these cards stopped it), and I think we can all agree that the Gods didn't do what JTMS did to the format. Playable Gods in a Greek-themed block is a good thing. And only 5/15 really saw play anyways. The frontunner, Thassa, is a 4-of in a deck full of *****ty draft birds, a deck that gets slammed by Control and Mono-Black.
So why are we printing this ***** again?
I* didn't know people could get so upset about a fringe sideboard card that shuts down 0 archetypes. No, this isn't a silver bullet vs anyone since no deck, not even mono blue, relies all that much on having a God out.
I'm upset about it not because I'm a Mono-Blue player or playing 4 Heliods or whatever. I'm just upset because it's bad design. Slaughter Games and its variants are well-designed Magic cards; for 4 Mana and the cost of not impacting the board, you can directly cut a piece of your opponent's strategy. With this card? You're just playing Erase that incidentally picks up all Gods. Yes I realize it costs +1 colorless, however this is an Enchantment block, obviously.
Bad threats, perfect answers, boring Standard. We've been there before.
And what is the problem with that exactly?
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The issue with this card isn't that it flavorfully slays Gods. It that it oppresses a central set mechanic at no opportunity cost. If you want to make this a 2W Instant or 1W Sorcery, sure, go for it. Or even better, 1W Instant "Exile target God, then do a bunch of *****". That way, when you commit Deicide, you're committing ******* Deicide, not just holding a buffed Revoke Existence and then weaseling 4 copies of Thassa, God of the Sea out of your opponent's deck.
But making the card this much better than Revoke Existence (which was already good enough to see play in U/W Control and B/W Midrange) is absurd. I tailor went through playable artifacts in Standard, even judiciously considering brew jank like Haunted Plate Mail, Akroan Horse and Pyromancer's Gauntlet (which have POSSIBLE potential, unlike something like Anvilwrought Raptor) and found that, well, missing artifacts is almost completely irrelevant. The best Artifacts in Standard are Legendary Enchantment Artifacts (get slammed by this), Ratchet Bomb, and Pithing Needle...
You also have to think of this set in terms of brewer's blues. Remember that beyond Spikes who just want to cast Sphinx's Revelation until their fingers bleed, there are people who see interesting, build-around cards and try to make decks with them. And what's more interesting than 5/5, Indestructible Gods with super flavorful and powerful abilities? Not much, but imagine getting your Phenax, God of Deception smacked with this at the kitchen table. Probably feels like *****.
And this isn't Slaughter Games. That's not all it does. It's premium enchantment removal (Erase +1 colorless, but in an enchantment block)! If you're playing against GB Constellation (if that even is a deck) this is like a super, exiling Doom Blade. That incidentally hoses Gods! Ugh.
I mean, this isn't Mindreaver bad or anything. JOU is still looking awesome. But I'm a bit sour. As many writers have noted before, Wizards keeps printing mediocre threats (4-5 Mana do nothings, 3 Mana creatures that are actually control cards, etc) and obnoxious answers. Cards like Thoughtseize, Deicide, Detention Sphere, Supreme Verdict cover so many angles by themselves. This is the next in the line of those cards, here to oppress your ability to do anything proactive while you get buried in Revelations.
That's part of the problem though. The deities aren't as playable as they should be if they're the format-defining cards that WotC advertises them as. They're simply not strong enough to warrant this level of hate. Now that there's such a powerful hate card out, this supposed staple of the format will likely never see the light of day, even post rotation.
Im pretty sure that the weapon is Godsend which she always had.
The part I bolded is a separate issue. The majority of the Gods aren't playable to begin with. This card doesn't change that. If their constructed play value was already zero, then this card does nothing to change that. Most of the time this card is going to be disenchant with some upside. I agree that it's powerful. I disagree that it will have nearly the impact people are suggesting.
If the Gods were running rampant, then I could understand the hurt feelings. The fact is most Gods are already bad, and this card doesn't change that. People won't stop playing Gods because of this card, because most of them aren't worth playing to begin with.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
The reason hate exists is to prevent strategies from becoming degenerate. If, as you say, the gods aren't that powerful, then this specific and powerful of hate is unwarranted. For example, do you think it would make sense to print the following card...
Erase Anoyance 1U
Instant
Return target creature to its owner's hand. If that creature is named Chimney Imp, search that players library hand and graveyard for all cards named chimney imp and exile them.
Obviously, wizards would never print this card, but it helps to clarify my point. Printing very powerful and specific hate against things that aren't particularly powerful is stupid... I don't think anyone here has called deicide broken. I don't even think it's particularly powerful. I just think it is bad design...
P.S. Is anyone else concerned that, right now, the only color without a decent answer to the gods is red?
- Manite
Isnt red supposed to be the aggressive color? By the time your opponent has his god active and devoted you probably lost already.
(Yes I know red can do more than aggro stuff but lets face it most base red decks will always be aggressive in some way.)
SO, wizards is supposed to make gods warp the format, and no one is allowed to have an answer for them? And Slaughter Games isn't unfun? This isn't slaughter games. Dispel. That is all.
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
I agree that we don't need this card. For that reason, I doubt it sees significant play beyond the usual enchantment hate the format may require. At the same time, the Gods will continue to see minimal play as well. So we've got a bunch of cards no one wants to play in constructed. That's nothing new. This may be just another one of those cards - nothing to get worked up about and hardly any worse design than countless other examples over the years.
Of course, if we do have some sort of format defining enchantment-based deck arise, all of that may very well change.
Standard: I, for one, welcome our new rhinoceros overlords
Modern: Pod's dead, Bob's back.
Legacy: Lands, Deathblade, Death and Taxes, Elves, MUD
Retired Legacy: Merfolk, Goblins, Jund, Delver, Reanimator
I feel like this is pretty much a stab at Mono U, but if this is really your favorite card in the set you havethe blandest taste. Good thing about mono U and it's "Draft Cards" is that deck is based off the synergy of Thassa/Bident.
When I read this spoiler I actually physically cringed. Introduce exciting innovative cards (heh chroma-creature is pretty innovative I guess *rolleyes*) that people obviously would love to play and add a card that completely hoses them? There is already a multitude of different answers to gods, most of which have already been brought up, revoke existence at instant with a little upside is good, this card is absolute *****.
"A man is but a product of his thoughts. What he thinks he becomes."
We HAD answers though. Quality answers. Revoke Existence, Detention Sphere, Unravel the AEther, whatever.
Even Jace, the Mind Sculptor didn't get this level of treatment (Despise, Hex Parasite, heh none of these cards stopped it), and I think we can all agree that the Gods didn't do what JTMS did to the format. Playable Gods in a Greek-themed block is a good thing. And only 5/15 really saw play anyways. The frontunner, Thassa, is a 4-of in a deck full of *****ty draft birds, a deck that gets slammed by Control and Mono-Black.
So why are we printing this ***** again?
Yeah, I think it was pretty greedy of Wizards to print this premier rare removal that pretty much hoses MUD decks, especially since it affects all enchantments. White decks have revoke existence and they're getting banishing light, and 60% of white decks use blue for detention sphere. So my problems are that 1) White didn't need this card because it has a handful and 2) It's a slap in the face to decks that want to use Gods
Remember that sets are made in advance and that cant foresee meta development 100%. I mean they never thought that Mono-Blue would ever be a Tier 1 deck in the first place for example.
I* didn't know people could get so upset about a fringe sideboard card that shuts down 0 archetypes. No, this isn't a silver bullet vs anyone since no deck, not even mono blue, relies all that much on having a God out.
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades
Lol are you joking? Every MUD deck relies on 4 thassa, for the scry, the 5/5 and the cheap unblockable ability. This hits thassa (one hits all) and bident. That leaves them with mediocre weenies and MoW which is fragile to every color except red. This definitely shuts down MUD.
Mono blue really does rely on Thassa more than you think. Master of Waves normally ends the matches, but I cannot tell you how many times unblock-ability on a Frostburn weird has ended games. Looks like a one way track to the removal train, time to sleeve up the Heros' Downfalls.
"A man is but a product of his thoughts. What he thinks he becomes."
I think what will happen is the same effect that Bile Blight had on Pack Rat. People will just be boarding Dispels/Negates and having to play their Thassa's differently. You cant run out a Thassa anymore without any protection basically or against anything with White mana. Everyone thought Bile Blight would ruin Pack Rat, but here we are, 6 major tournaments later where Mono Black has won back to back with 4 Pack Rats. People just adapted, this card is strong but definitely not the nail in the coffin for any god based deck.
"Says bile blight hasn't killed Pack rat easily, doesn't notice bile blight only sees play in mono black." All bile blight does right now is help black.
What difference does that make that black can only play it? Mono Black was the most played deck pre-BNG. It was thought when BNG came out that Pack Rat had to be cut down, taken out, or players had to switch to a more pure control deck like Orzhov Control or Rakdos Control. Pack Rat was basically one of Mono Black's win conditions, which is why people thought with Bile Blight it would go away.
But that obviously didnt happen. Pack Rat is still insane. Just like Thassa is still very good. Maybe more players will have to switch to U/w devo, cut 1 Thassa for an Ephara, or just main Syncopates like Sam Black did. The deck wouldnt be so good if Thassa was all that it got. Its the best aggro deck in the format since it's cards outclass any other aggro deck and has multiple ways to attack decks. You just cant mindlessly run out a Thassa anymore or have to sideboard in cards to protect it in certain match ups. There not always going to have Deicide to answer it nor will they be playing white to support it.
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
Lol okay. The archetype was already largely hated out in BNG and gained absolutely nothing in JOU.
Avatar by DarkNightCavalier
You will not remember my face, your name, or your journey, but in the end...
You will accede my every command.
In truth, it was hated out of Theros pretty well originally. MUD had a few good weeks at the beginning of the format, then people started playing MBD and black pretty much just beat blue. The only thing black couldn't deal with easily was a resolved thassa. BNG provided even more tools to support MBD and also provided some support for WUB control. All MUD got was Ephara. Ephara is good but doesn't do anything special to help MUD against MBD or WUB. With MBD such a large part of the format, an orzhov deck that is functionally an MBD deck that splashes white for sideboard revoke existence and mainboard MBD hate put the final nail in MUDs coffin. MUD is still a good deck, and if a tournament isn't expecting it, MUD can do well, but at this point its really a T1.2 deck. It still sees significant play though and can do well....
EDIT: On the other hand, I'm Jon Snow, so.....
EDITEDIT: thassa's rebuff is terrible. It's a conditional and soft counterspell. Don't run it...
- Manite
I'm upset about it not because I'm a Mono-Blue player or playing 4 Heliods or whatever. I'm just upset because it's bad design. Slaughter Games and its variants are well-designed Magic cards; for 4 Mana and the cost of not impacting the board, you can directly cut a piece of your opponent's strategy. With this card? You're just playing Erase (+1 colorless, but in an Enchantment block) that incidentally picks up all Gods. Sometimes you'll get a 1-for-1 or 2-for-1, but often times it's "Sphinx's Revelation" while the control player reveals a hand of 0 Sphinx, lands and removal. Then you clean up their deck and have pseudo Time Walked yourself.
Bad threats, perfect answers, boring Standard. 53+% Thoughtseize meta, with mass 4-ofs, weak synergies, and mass Mono-Black. 70+% decks playing Mutavault. We've been here before.
And what is the problem with that exactly?