You beat me to it. My thread was posted about a minute after yours...
On topic: I really like this guy. Its basically an easier to cast goblin electromancer that can be easily protected. Though at two mana, I don't really care if my opponent kills it. This guy just seems really good to me. Some notable cards to use with him that I haven't seen anyone else mention yet are flames of the firebrand and frost breath. This also does rather absurd things with turn // burn.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
Yep. There's also Curse of the Swine, if we're staying inside the Theros Block.
Keep in mind it works with Mono-target spells too, so it turns Lightning Strike into a bolt if you're hitting a creature instead of a player. And the effect stacks, so if you have 4 out and cast Fireball with multiple creature targets...
No only Turn//Burn, but also Far//Away. I didn't realize at first that it works for your opponents creatures that you target too. That makes this card insane. And I shrugged at its heroic ability at first, but really it's pretty freakin amazing.
I want to remake my Nivix Cyclops deck now, definately. Armed//Dangerous will be pretty great in it too.
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About Mindslaver rulings:
Quote from ebcubs03 »
so if i am that player do i get to sleep with his girlfriend ?
No only Turn//Burn, but also Far//Away. I didn't realize at first that it works for your opponents creatures that you target too. That makes this card insane. And I shrugged at its heroic ability at first, but really it's pretty freakin amazing.
I want to remake my Nivix Cyclops deck now, definately. Armed//Dangerous will be pretty great in it too.
Far // away only grants the normal -1 to cost that is granted to every other removal spell and so has no special synergy beyond being a removal spell. Armed // dangerous can net the -2 cost reduction, but only if you are targeting different creatures with armed and dangerous. This means you won't be able to pull of the cool blowout made possible by armed + dangerous on the same creature. There is some special synergy here, but not much.
The only thing I wish was different about this guy is the use of hexproof. This might be the only card I've ever seen in which shroud makes the card more powerful than a hexproof version.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
Reapeal doesn't work well even with a thaumaturge out. Without thauturmage, it is a strictly unprofitable card as it nets no change in CA and a loss in tempo. With Thaumaturge out, it becomes slightly better. It would now be a strictly nothing card resulting in Equal CA and equal tempo after the spell had been cast. Into the roil is much better, though i still doubt that the cards you propose will be good enough in a deck to compete in modern.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
Could possibly be my favorite card in this entire block, the name is hard to pronounce just like the rest of Theros too. Man this is awesome!!!
The Thau is pronounced like thaw. Then you pronouce the "ma" as a single syllable sounding like the lazy way of saying "Mom", and finally the "turge" so the first part of it sounds like "turd." The stress is on the first syllable.
Those spells cost 1 more for each target. This makes them cost 1 less for each target. As a result, those two effects cancel each other out, and both spells just cost the one mana no matter how many targets they have.
The only thing I wish was different about this guy is the use of hexproof. This might be the only card I've ever seen in which shroud makes the card more powerful than a hexproof version.
What do you mean? If it was shroud, you could usually only target it with one spell per turn; with hexproof, you can target it multiple times and apply the reduction.
The only thing I wish was different about this guy is the use of hexproof. This might be the only card I've ever seen in which shroud makes the card more powerful than a hexproof version.
What do you mean? If it was shroud, you could usually only target it with one spell per turn; with hexproof, you can target it multiple times and apply the reduction.
Basically my logic is that the vast majority of instants and sorceries that target creatures and are used in constructed are negative effects. Its pretty much just removal spells. Occasional some pump spells see play, but there are far fewer pump spells in an average format than removal spells and pump spells would be largly wasted on this guy as its just a 2/1 with no evasion/protection at the time you cast the pump. Because of this, this card would be much better with the shroud keyword. You could do things like cast this guy on turn 3 leaving up R for lightning strike if your opponent attempts to remove your thaumaturge, you could cast the lightning strike targeting your thaumaturge to protect it (maintaining your tempo engine) and gaining you some tempo in the process. If your opponent doesn't try to remove thaumaturge, you can send lighting strike to one of your opponents creatures allowing you to pick up tempo as well. In my opinion, using the shroud keyword instead of hexproof would have made for a much more powerful creature.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
since stuff with X in the cost and then state x target creatures i think you still have to pay X as you have to declare targets etc at that point. so i dont think he works quite as well as people think.
Costs are paid after targets are chosen. He works just fine with an X spell. In fact, if he worked as you described, he wouldn't work at all.
Basically my logic is that the vast majority of instants and sorceries that target creatures and are used in constructed are negative effects. Its pretty much just removal spells. Occasional some pump spells see play, but there are far fewer pump spells in an average format than removal spells and pump spells would be largly wasted on this guy as its just a 2/1 with no evasion/protection at the time you cast the pump. Because of this, this card would be much better with the shroud keyword. You could do things like cast this guy on turn 3 leaving up R for lightning strike if your opponent attempts to remove your thaumaturge, you could cast the lightning strike targeting your thaumaturge to protect it (maintaining your tempo engine) and gaining you some tempo in the process. If your opponent doesn't try to remove thaumaturge, you can send lighting strike to one of your opponents creatures allowing you to pick up tempo as well. In my opinion, using the shroud keyword instead of hexproof would have made for a much more powerful creature.
I see, but that wouldn't really fit with the flavor of heroic mechanic, though. A hero who can avoid every quest?
The only thing I wish was different about this guy is the use of hexproof. This might be the only card I've ever seen in which shroud makes the card more powerful than a hexproof version.
What do you mean? If it was shroud, you could usually only target it with one spell per turn; with hexproof, you can target it multiple times and apply the reduction.
Basically my logic is that the vast majority of instants and sorceries that target creatures and are used in constructed are negative effects. Its pretty much just removal spells. Occasional some pump spells see play, but there are far fewer pump spells in an average format than removal spells and pump spells would be largly wasted on this guy as its just a 2/1 with no evasion/protection at the time you cast the pump. Because of this, this card would be much better with the shroud keyword. You could do things like cast this guy on turn 3 leaving up R for lightning strike if your opponent attempts to remove your thaumaturge, you could cast the lightning strike targeting your thaumaturge to protect it (maintaining your tempo engine) and gaining you some tempo in the process. If your opponent doesn't try to remove thaumaturge, you can send lighting strike to one of your opponents creatures allowing you to pick up tempo as well. In my opinion, using the shroud keyword instead of hexproof would have made for a much more powerful creature.
The only thing I wish was different about this guy is the use of hexproof. This might be the only card I've ever seen in which shroud makes the card more powerful than a hexproof version.
What do you mean? If it was shroud, you could usually only target it with one spell per turn; with hexproof, you can target it multiple times and apply the reduction.
Basically my logic is that the vast majority of instants and sorceries that target creatures and are used in constructed are negative effects. Its pretty much just removal spells. Occasional some pump spells see play, but there are far fewer pump spells in an average format than removal spells and pump spells would be largly wasted on this guy as its just a 2/1 with no evasion/protection at the time you cast the pump. Because of this, this card would be much better with the shroud keyword. You could do things like cast this guy on turn 3 leaving up R for lightning strike if your opponent attempts to remove your thaumaturge, you could cast the lightning strike targeting your thaumaturge to protect it (maintaining your tempo engine) and gaining you some tempo in the process. If your opponent doesn't try to remove thaumaturge, you can send lighting strike to one of your opponents creatures allowing you to pick up tempo as well. In my opinion, using the shroud keyword instead of hexproof would have made for a much more powerful creature.
Combos hilariously with Gridlock, among other spells. Seems like a pretty amazing card all around.
On topic: I really like this guy. Its basically an easier to cast goblin electromancer that can be easily protected. Though at two mana, I don't really care if my opponent kills it. This guy just seems really good to me. Some notable cards to use with him that I haven't seen anyone else mention yet are flames of the firebrand and frost breath. This also does rather absurd things with turn // burn.
- Manite
Keep in mind it works with Mono-target spells too, so it turns Lightning Strike into a bolt if you're hitting a creature instead of a player. And the effect stacks, so if you have 4 out and cast Fireball with multiple creature targets...
In other decks he makes apostle's blessing cost only 2 life or W.
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I want to remake my Nivix Cyclops deck now, definately. Armed//Dangerous will be pretty great in it too.
About Mindslaver rulings:
Far // away only grants the normal -1 to cost that is granted to every other removal spell and so has no special synergy beyond being a removal spell. Armed // dangerous can net the -2 cost reduction, but only if you are targeting different creatures with armed and dangerous. This means you won't be able to pull of the cool blowout made possible by armed + dangerous on the same creature. There is some special synergy here, but not much.
The only thing I wish was different about this guy is the use of hexproof. This might be the only card I've ever seen in which shroud makes the card more powerful than a hexproof version.
- Manite
Reapeal doesn't work well even with a thaumaturge out. Without thauturmage, it is a strictly unprofitable card as it nets no change in CA and a loss in tempo. With Thaumaturge out, it becomes slightly better. It would now be a strictly nothing card resulting in Equal CA and equal tempo after the spell had been cast. Into the roil is much better, though i still doubt that the cards you propose will be good enough in a deck to compete in modern.
- Manite
The Thau is pronounced like thaw. Then you pronouce the "ma" as a single syllable sounding like the lazy way of saying "Mom", and finally the "turge" so the first part of it sounds like "turd." The stress is on the first syllable.
And as a bonus, you can turn all your 1/1 tokens into 2/2s for no added cost.
A comic about the world's most addictive game, Magic: The Gathering.
Those spells cost 1 more for each target. This makes them cost 1 less for each target. As a result, those two effects cancel each other out, and both spells just cost the one mana no matter how many targets they have.
What do you mean? If it was shroud, you could usually only target it with one spell per turn; with hexproof, you can target it multiple times and apply the reduction.
Basically my logic is that the vast majority of instants and sorceries that target creatures and are used in constructed are negative effects. Its pretty much just removal spells. Occasional some pump spells see play, but there are far fewer pump spells in an average format than removal spells and pump spells would be largly wasted on this guy as its just a 2/1 with no evasion/protection at the time you cast the pump. Because of this, this card would be much better with the shroud keyword. You could do things like cast this guy on turn 3 leaving up R for lightning strike if your opponent attempts to remove your thaumaturge, you could cast the lightning strike targeting your thaumaturge to protect it (maintaining your tempo engine) and gaining you some tempo in the process. If your opponent doesn't try to remove thaumaturge, you can send lighting strike to one of your opponents creatures allowing you to pick up tempo as well. In my opinion, using the shroud keyword instead of hexproof would have made for a much more powerful creature.
- Manite
Costs are paid after targets are chosen. He works just fine with an X spell. In fact, if he worked as you described, he wouldn't work at all.
I see, but that wouldn't really fit with the flavor of heroic mechanic, though. A hero who can avoid every quest?
I'm confused. Why CAN'T you do the Lightning Strike play?
if you target your own thaumaturge with strike then it will die
*Hits head* Of course. Thank you. I can't believe my mind didn't process that. God, I'm useless without coffee.