The most potential Keranos will have is in a RWU control. Which, incidentally, I think is totally viable post Mana Confluence. stabilize through burns and SV, keep slow and consistent disruption, stick him late to grind your opponent out of the game.
that's probably where he's best.
All of the rules allow for your general to be moved to the command zone when he gets put into a place that would be tough to get him back from, GY, Exile, etc. I am sure one day the rules will change and include tuck effects.
Keranos is strong in my opinion, but for an archetype to be viable you will need at least 4-5 rock-solid cards, which Izzet doesn't have. Compare it to Azorius: they have Revelation, Verdict, Detention Sphere Azorius Charm, Jace. Or RG monsters with Domri, Caryatid, Polukranos, Stormbreath. That's the shell and you can complete that shell however you see fit. Izzet doesn't have that shell so while Keranos is strong he doesn't make Izzet Tier 1.
You're aware that not a single of those will be legal come this fall? Izzet has Dictate of Kruphix, Keranos, Thassa, Stormbreath Dragon, Master of Waves, Dissolve, and Steam Augury in theros block alone. What does Azorius have? Battlewise hoplite? Medomai? It has elspeth and that's it. Unless there is some really mindblowing stuff in M15 and the next block it is simply impossible for esper and azorius control to survive rotation in anything like their current form.
Izzet is probably bunk till rotation, but as has been pointed out it could get really good come rotation. I mean I play it the most of anything just cuz the unpredictable jankiness is really fun. Steam Augury is my fave theros block card to play. Some of the situations that come up are just hilarious. But I'm not kidding myself into thinking Izzet's truly viable for competitive play.
What does sort of work pretty well with Keranos is Stormcaller of Keranos you scry to help get rid of lands to help increase the bolting, but yeah the Izzet Uncommon better be amazing.
2UR: Scry 1, then reveal the top card of your library. Stormchaser Chimera gets +X/0 until EoT.
2/3
It's not even good in Limited, heh. But still, between Keranos, the Temple, Magma Spray, Battlemage Tharmaturage, and so on, Red Blue got enough interesting things to play with.
I'm pretty disappointed in the lack of a decent 1CC (or at 2CC) can trip or one-drop aggressive blue tempo creature. That's what I felt like Izzet tempo really needed. Dakra Mystic is intriguing for a one drop. Nevertheless, I see real potential in Thurmaturge. The biggest issues I had in facing other decks was G/X monsters. Control was slightly favorable. Aggro was about a 50/50. And it flat out stomped some other decks. Running Thurmaturge + Curse of the Swine is pretty dirty against G/R. And it actually seems pretty legitimate. But it would come in mostly from the sideboard. So I don't know. I think Grixis and American got better with Thurmaturge as well. But it wouldn't be all-in control. American with Thurmaturge, Young Peezy, Chimera, Stormbreath, Keranos and having Aurelia's Fury along with some other stuff could be legit.
I feel there's nothing straight U/R can do that other color combinations do better. Izzet is just a bunch of crappy gimmicks that scream BUILD AROUND ME with very little payoff to show for it. However, RUG, Grixis, and American might have a place.
I actually think that Grixis Control will be a top tier deck going into this next standard season with JOU becoming legal. With Keranos as a sort of card advantage engine/win con, we also have access to the classic package of Jace/Thoughtseize/Dissolve/Hero's Downfall/Aetherling/Syncopate/etc etc that Esper does, and Izzet Charm, Ral Zarek, Anger of the Gods, and Lightning Strike seem like a very fair trade off for Elspeth, Sphinx's Rev, D Sphere, and Verdict. Plus we can still pull Specter out of our SB.
I actually think that Grixis Control will be a top tier deck going into this next standard season with JOU becoming legal. With Keranos as a sort of card advantage engine/win con, we also have access to the classic package of Jace/Thoughtseize/Dissolve/Hero's Downfall/Aetherling/Syncopate/etc etc that Esper does, and Izzet Charm, Ral Zarek, Anger of the Gods, and Lightning Strike seem like a very fair trade off for Elspeth, Sphinx's Rev, D Sphere, and Verdict. Plus we can still pull Specter out of our SB.
Ral Zarek and Lightning Strike have no business of being anywhere near a control deck (both cards very much pull you towards aggro/tempo builds), Anger of the Gods is a sideboard card and while Izzet Charm is very good, it certainly doesn't compensate for losing the massive power of the white cards you listed.
Anger of the Gods is going to be incredibly potent against all the new BW Humans decks that will be popping up post JOU,and its good against a lot of other decks that play X/3's or lower, so I feel like it's definitely maindeck-able in a UBR Control list. As far as Lightning Strike, you may be right, it might be better to have Mizzium Mortars instead, but regardless I think the archetype has a shot. By the way the reason I included Ral Zarek is because he's a decent defensive dude plus nets you a bit of ramp while at the same time being a lowkey wincon or a must-remove. You also have Ashiok, who seems like a MB 2-of to me.
I actually think that Grixis Control will be a top tier deck going into this next standard season with JOU becoming legal. With Keranos as a sort of card advantage engine/win con, we also have access to the classic package of Jace/Thoughtseize/Dissolve/Hero's Downfall/Aetherling/Syncopate/etc etc that Esper does, and Izzet Charm, Ral Zarek, Anger of the Gods, and Lightning Strike seem like a very fair trade off for Elspeth, Sphinx's Rev, D Sphere, and Verdict. Plus we can still pull Specter out of our SB.
Ral Zarek and Lightning Strike have no business of being anywhere near a control deck (both cards very much pull you towards aggro/tempo builds), Anger of the Gods is a sideboard card and while Izzet Charm is very good, it certainly doesn't compensate for losing the massive power of the white cards you listed.
Anger of the Gods is going to be incredibly potent against all the new BW Humans decks that will be popping up post JOU,and its good against a lot of other decks that play X/3's or lower, so I feel like it's definitely maindeck-able in a UBR Control list. As far as Lightning Strike, you may be right, it might be better to have Mizzium Mortars instead, but regardless I think the archetype has a shot. By the way the reason I included Ral Zarek is because he's a decent defensive dude plus nets you a bit of ramp while at the same time being a lowkey wincon or a must-remove. You also have Ashiok, who seems like a MB 2-of to me.
Not really. Anger comes down one turn earlier than Supreme Verdict, which isn't a big deal. It's no better than Dissolving Athreos or Xathrid Necromancer on turn 3. BW humans will be solid because of its resiliency to removal, and adding more limited removal isn't going to help that.
Using burn as a primary control option makes no sense pre-rotation.
Not really. Anger comes down one turn earlier than Supreme Verdict, which isn't a big deal. It's no better than Dissolving Athreos or Xathrid Necromancer on turn 3. BW humans will be solid because of its resiliency to removal, and adding more limited removal isn't going to help that.
Using burn as a primary control option makes no sense pre-rotation.
While I agree that trading White for Red doesn't seem like the better option you are very much wrong about Anger of the Gods. Since it exiles the creatures upon death it totally nullifies Athreos, Immortal Servitude and Xathrid Necromancer. You couldn't have put your argument in a more wrong way, grtz.
Not really. Anger comes down one turn earlier than Supreme Verdict, which isn't a big deal. It's no better than Dissolving Athreos or Xathrid Necromancer on turn 3. BW humans will be solid because of its resiliency to removal, and adding more limited removal isn't going to help that.
Using burn as a primary control option makes no sense pre-rotation.
While I agree that trading White for Red doesn't seem like the better option you are very much wrong about Anger of the Gods. Since it exiles the creatures upon death it totally nullifies Athreos, Immortal Servitude and Xathrid Necromancer. You couldn't have put your argument in a more wrong way, grtz.
Pay more attention. I wasn't directly comparing Anger to Supreme Verdict. I explaining that the speed only doesn't matter when you can D-Sphere, Dissolve, Deicide, Revoke, or otherwise use any of of the numerous answers that white has Athreos on the same turn you could drop an Anger. As I said, "It's no better than dissolving Athreos or Xathrid Necromancer on turn 3." Using those options takes care of Athreos himself and the weenies, whereas Anger leaves Athreos on the board. You couldn't have attacked any more fragile strawman, grtz.
i just think it's weird that he's so anti-synergy with the two other Theros block izzet cards: Steam Augury and Spellheart Chimera. Those cards want you to jam your deck full of instants and sorceries, while Keranos wants you to jam you deck full of permanents for devotion.
It's a bit irritating to be honest.
Well, as an older player, please let me offer my p.o.v.
Frankly, after getting nothing but 'Jam a bunch of instants & sorceries' kind of Izzet cards for the last two years, it is kinda nice to finally get SOMEHTING new from R&D for Izzet.
Personally I'd love to see a return to more traditional 'counterburn' controllish types of cards than another dozen cards that all do the exact same thing (count instants & sorceries), to just establish YET ANOTHER aggro-driven archetype. Or, following the direction of the FIRST Ravnica, let them be the guild of Storm mechanic and super-crazy-explosive-combo wins. That is SO much more flavorful than 'Hey, let's PUMP OUR DUDES and WRECK FACE in a slightly different way than every other deck in Modern.'
Honestly? I'm legitimately impressed they actually resisted the urge to lower his devotion in an attempt to help players turn him into just another stupid beater for a guild that really shouldn't be trying to win via aggro anyway. It certainly never did before Modern format.
Don't even get me started on the 'aggro-ization' of Mill strategies in U/B.
TLDR: Keranos is awesome BECAUSE he is different than the usual Izzet stuff. I can't wait to try him out.
I don't think it is, you play your turn 5 drop does nothing, other control decks answer it pretty well, UW has deicide, banishing light, detention sphere, and do you really think UW really cares that they took a bolt to the face? I don't think so. It' too slow, i think if it was one less mana it would be viable. Maybe if it triggered when it enters the battlefield, but on his own he does nothing.
It's pretty slow. However, I could see this fitting some slow control style deck. You just stall and burn and stall and burn, then repeat. It's cool that you don't have to do anything to use his effect though, unlike Pharika...
Personally... i like keranos. Ill admit his mana cost is high for most decks you would want him in. But i like him in an Izzet burn deck. Despite his high cost and devotion issues, i still feel his effect more than makes up for it. After he comes out, on your next turn, you either get an extra card, or a burn spell or a non burn spell deals an extra 3 damage. If you draw a lighting stike, you now have 2... one of which you got for free. He gives burn the draw and damage that it needs to succeed in mid and late game. Combined him with Thassa and you now scry before you draw... primes your effects so you can make it more cosistant. Mind the fact that we can now run draw and not feel bad for putting a card in a burn deck that isnt a burn spell. Wild Guess, Divination, Quicken.... they all now can deal damage..... give guttersnipe a friend to give him a hand or eidolon.... its all good. However, im crazy so dont listen to me... go out and try it for yourself. I run Dictate of the twin gods just so i can alpha burn on turn six.... bad card... perhaps... but then again.... so was pack rat until grey merchant came out. Im not saying izzet burn is op... but im also not saying its bad. I just like to see new decks being built... keeps the game moving forward.
that's probably where he's best.
Modern : RG Titan Shift RG | RG Revolt Zoo RG | RG Ponza RG | RGW Naya Burn RGW
Legacy : RG Belcher RG
You're aware that not a single of those will be legal come this fall? Izzet has Dictate of Kruphix, Keranos, Thassa, Stormbreath Dragon, Master of Waves, Dissolve, and Steam Augury in theros block alone. What does Azorius have? Battlewise hoplite? Medomai? It has elspeth and that's it. Unless there is some really mindblowing stuff in M15 and the next block it is simply impossible for esper and azorius control to survive rotation in anything like their current form.
What I find interesting is the Event deck is U/R so cleat Wizards think there is some sort of viable deck. Battlefield Thaumaturge with some combo of twinflame Polymorphous rush and/or Harness by Force Toss in Goblin Electromancer and Spellheart chimera but it feels slow.
Stormchaser Chimera (2UR)
Flying
2UR: Scry 1, then reveal the top card of your library. Stormchaser Chimera gets +X/0 until EoT.
2/3
It's not even good in Limited, heh. But still, between Keranos, the Temple, Magma Spray, Battlemage Tharmaturage, and so on, Red Blue got enough interesting things to play with.
UW Approach UW
EDH
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls U
Anger of the Gods is going to be incredibly potent against all the new BW Humans decks that will be popping up post JOU,and its good against a lot of other decks that play X/3's or lower, so I feel like it's definitely maindeck-able in a UBR Control list. As far as Lightning Strike, you may be right, it might be better to have Mizzium Mortars instead, but regardless I think the archetype has a shot. By the way the reason I included Ral Zarek is because he's a decent defensive dude plus nets you a bit of ramp while at the same time being a lowkey wincon or a must-remove. You also have Ashiok, who seems like a MB 2-of to me.
UW Approach UW
EDH
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls U
Not really. Anger comes down one turn earlier than Supreme Verdict, which isn't a big deal. It's no better than Dissolving Athreos or Xathrid Necromancer on turn 3. BW humans will be solid because of its resiliency to removal, and adding more limited removal isn't going to help that.
Using burn as a primary control option makes no sense pre-rotation.
4x Counterflux
4x Dissolve
2x Essence Scatter
4x Izzet Charm
3x Lightning Strike
4x Magma Jet
2x Negate
2x Rapid Hybridization
3x Turn / Burn
Land (24)
8x Island
8x Mountain
4x Steam Vents
4x Temple of Epiphany
Creature (8)
2x AEtherling
2x Keranos, God of Storms
4x Young Pyromancer
Planeswalker (2)
2x Ral Zarek
Sideboard (15)
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Cyclonic Rift
2x Dispel
2x Essence Scatter
2x Mizzium Mortars
2x Negate
2x Rapid Hybridization
1x Turn / Burn
Pay more attention. I wasn't directly comparing Anger to Supreme Verdict. I explaining that the speed only doesn't matter when you can D-Sphere, Dissolve, Deicide, Revoke, or otherwise use any of of the numerous answers that white has Athreos on the same turn you could drop an Anger. As I said, "It's no better than dissolving Athreos or Xathrid Necromancer on turn 3." Using those options takes care of Athreos himself and the weenies, whereas Anger leaves Athreos on the board. You couldn't have attacked any more fragile strawman, grtz.
Well, as an older player, please let me offer my p.o.v.
Frankly, after getting nothing but 'Jam a bunch of instants & sorceries' kind of Izzet cards for the last two years, it is kinda nice to finally get SOMEHTING new from R&D for Izzet.
Personally I'd love to see a return to more traditional 'counterburn' controllish types of cards than another dozen cards that all do the exact same thing (count instants & sorceries), to just establish YET ANOTHER aggro-driven archetype. Or, following the direction of the FIRST Ravnica, let them be the guild of Storm mechanic and super-crazy-explosive-combo wins. That is SO much more flavorful than 'Hey, let's PUMP OUR DUDES and WRECK FACE in a slightly different way than every other deck in Modern.'
Honestly? I'm legitimately impressed they actually resisted the urge to lower his devotion in an attempt to help players turn him into just another stupid beater for a guild that really shouldn't be trying to win via aggro anyway. It certainly never did before Modern format.
Don't even get me started on the 'aggro-ization' of Mill strategies in U/B.
TLDR: Keranos is awesome BECAUSE he is different than the usual Izzet stuff. I can't wait to try him out.
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