If these first 30 spoiled cards do not change the current standard metagame, then this set loses most of its meaning. Wizards of the Coast tends to spoil the strongest cards in a set first, so wait until you see the rest of the set before you make any calls.
... I don't really see how the meta is going to change all that much. I mean, we knew ahead of time about the final two scrylands, which will help out a variety of decks. But in terms of cards to be cast, the only format-defining card for me is Ajani, who might create a new archtype or two, or push a couple other decks up a notch potentially, but that's it.
The set looks great though, no complaints from me.
... I don't really see how the meta is going to change all that much. I mean, we knew ahead of time about the final two scrylands, which will help out a variety of decks. But in terms of cards to be cast, the only format-defining card for me is Ajani, who might create a new archtype or two, or push a couple other decks up a notch potentially, but that's it.
The set looks great though, no complaints from me.
There is the possibility of an enchantment deck doing something. Also, Boros might be back.
BNG significantly altered standard, the problem is that the alterations it made didn't overly change the "feel" of standard. Regardless of the content of JOU the format will change at least as much as it did with BNG (hopefully more) because of pretty much the same reason - the new scrylands. BNG shifted the format thanks to the scrylands it added and the splashes they enabled to already existing decks (UW -> esper, RG -> jund, monoU devotion -> monoU splash W devotion etc.). JOU finally gives us the full rainbow of scrylands and thus enables a lot more ability to splash between different colors (mono B devotion splash green for Abrupt Decay is a definite possibility post JOU).
What people really desire though is more than a simple shift of standard where the same strategies exist just using different color combinations, they want a standard where new strategies completely shake things up in the top tiers (something BNG failed to do since only GB "dredge" was particularly new and while decent it didn't shake things up too much). We can only hope we get this type of drastic shift in the "feel" of standard this time around.
@Valanarch: Do you mean Boros aggro? Because Boros burn has been a pretty big thing recently.
... I don't really see how the meta is going to change all that much. I mean, we knew ahead of time about the final two scrylands, which will help out a variety of decks. But in terms of cards to be cast, the only format-defining card for me is Ajani, who might create a new archtype or two, or push a couple other decks up a notch potentially, but that's it.
The set looks great though, no complaints from me.
There is the possibility of an enchantment deck doing something. Also, Boros might be back.
Yes, play Green combo and R/W Aggro in a world of Lifebane Zombies, Thoughtseizes, and Doom Blades. That sounds like a very solid way to win any rounds in a competitive tournament....
I know the OP is smoking some good stuff, so I will forgive him for his ludicrous statements, but realistically speaking, when the best cards spoiled so far are an anthem, scry lands, and a 2/1 one drop, the set sounds pretty abysmal. We are not even mentioning about how limited got another Wingsteed Rider either no less.
DGM is starting to look like Innistrad if this is really what JOU is going to offer. It sounds extremely disappointing so far. I guess its a fine set if your standards of a MTG set should look like a step slightly above Kamigawa block, but like JOU 30 cards deep looks very depressing in terms of new enemies for Mono B, Mono U and Esper.
... I don't really see how the meta is going to change all that much. I mean, we knew ahead of time about the final two scrylands, which will help out a variety of decks. But in terms of cards to be cast, the only format-defining card for me is Ajani, who might create a new archtype or two, or push a couple other decks up a notch potentially, but that's it.
The set looks great though, no complaints from me.
There is the possibility of an enchantment deck doing something. Also, Boros might be back.
Yes, play Green combo and R/W Aggro in a world of Lifebane Zombies, Thoughtseizes, and Doom Blades. That sounds like a very solid way to win any rounds in a competitive tournament....
I know the OP is smoking some good stuff, so I will forgive him for his ludicrous statements, but realistically speaking, when the best cards spoiled so far are an anthem, scry lands, and a 2/1 one drop, the set sounds pretty abysmal. We are not even mentioning about how limited got another Wingsteed Rider either no less.
DGM is starting to look like Innistrad if this is really what JOU is going to offer. It sounds extremely disappointing so far. I guess its a fine set if your standards of a MTG set should look like a step slightly above Kamigawa block, but like JOU 30 cards deep looks very depressing in terms of new enemies for Mono B, Mono U and Esper.
Hey, just be glad it hasn't given those existing Archetypes too much in terms of cards
Not necessarily, but these first cards are much stronger than the rest of the set in order capture our attention. Wizards did not spoil ALL of the best cards in the set.
Theros significantly altered standard already with gray merchant, thoughtseize, hero's downfall, nykthos, thassa, elspeth and more. BNG has made light impact with the most successful cards being bile blight and searing blood (not really format altering).
The new cards printed threaten to alter the landscape with the very agressively costed bestow cards, super powerful enchantments (finally) a decent pw and some decent 1-2 drops. We could finally see a shift in the meta. (Green still seems underwhelming though)
I haven't seen anything that's going to pull this standard out of the pall of thoughtsieze. The bestow costs aren't significantly better than they were before and there's no significant tool to use against mud or mbd.
At best I see some new tier 2 decks being enabled, which should shake stuff up at your fnm unless you play exclusively with rich netdeckers.
Not necessarily, but these first cards are much stronger than the rest of the set in order capture our attention. Wizards did not spoil ALL of the best cards in the set.
This isn't necessarily true. Cards like Courser of Kruphix, Deathrite Shaman and Boros Reckoner were all kind of brushed upon at the last minute.
Boros has appeared in the top 8 of 4 of the last 5 opens, pretty certain it's a viable deck at this point. Can easily see G/W midrange becoming a deck now, and dredge is going to get a bit more viable with the temple alone. And yeah I think we will see an enchantment deck. Gift of Immortality on Eidolon of Blossoms? Yeah I want to see people deal with that kind of card advantage. Hero of Iroas, Boon Satyr, Herald of Torment, Courser of Kruphix, Eidolon of Countless Battles. We're going to see this deck. Can imagine the cantrip enchantments with eidolon or hero of iroas. I can't wait to see this deck. Karametra's favor on eidolon, draw 2 cards and now it can tap for mana. omg I can't wait for this deck. So glad were getting a high synergy deck.
BNG significantly altered standard, the problem is that the alterations it made didn't overly change the "feel" of standard. Regardless of the content of JOU the format will change at least as much as it did with BNG (hopefully more) because of pretty much the same reason - the new scrylands. BNG shifted the format thanks to the scrylands it added and the splashes they enabled to already existing decks (UW -> esper, RG -> jund, monoU devotion -> monoU splash W devotion etc.). JOU finally gives us the full rainbow of scrylands and thus enables a lot more ability to splash between different colors (mono B devotion splash green for Abrupt Decay is a definite possibility post JOU).
What people really desire though is more than a simple shift of standard where the same strategies exist just using different color combinations, they want a standard where new strategies completely shake things up in the top tiers (something BNG failed to do since only GB "dredge" was particularly new and while decent it didn't shake things up too much). We can only hope we get this type of drastic shift in the "feel" of standard this time around.
@Valanarch: Do you mean Boros aggro? Because Boros burn has been a pretty big thing recently.
I really haven't seen anything that will drastically change standard.
The gods are nice but people kind of hate things that "do nothing". Even Xenagos God of Revels was very pushed and impactful the turn it's played but that's played as a fringe copy.
My money so far are on are: gnarled scarhide as a way better cackler/tormented hero eidolon of blossoms, while fragile, could lead to some CA blowouts and has a flexibility to work around
temples dictate of kruphix or Dakra Mystic (by god they're pushing turbo fog to tier 1) Ajani, Mentor of heroes is a bit expensive but is a good CN engine or makes annoying GW weenies threatening, probably a 2x of
Yea, I am already reworking my esper control deck into bant control just because of Ajani, and your thoughts of him as a 2 of is just about right. It also opens up green sideboard options which mean I will also be running some BoG's cards finally which aren't lands haha
ALSO, I can really see Turbo Fog and Maze's End decks being on a big rise because like the last poster said, they are getting some big key cards for their strategy that they really needed to work. My only problem with this type of deck being tier 1 is the fact that boros burn is still a deck
I do agree that BNG had lackluster mechanics (although Pain Seer is better than many give it credit for and even tribute has seen some competitive play thanks to Fanatic of Xenagos). But thinking that a set and it's impact on standard is about the linear strategies that wizards literally give us ("Here you are guys, here's a good new linear strategy just build and play no need to think." -rolleyes-) is stupid, these strategies and cards using those mechanics often do become competitively viable but there are always large numbers of strategies (and cards) which aren't "gifted" to us but are just as good if not better and in standard at the moment we have both with - Jund monsters and Esper control which aren't built around a mechanic and monoB/monoU devotion which are.
Now that Atheros, God of Passage and Dictate of Karametra have been spoiled, I believe that we will have a different Standard. This Standard seems awesome enough that I am quitting Modern to buy into it (that and the fact that all of the expensive Standard cards that I'd be buying are conveniently Modern staples).
Now that Atheros, God of Passage and Dictate of Karametra have been spoiled, I believe that we will have a different Standard. This Standard seems awesome enough that I am quitting Modern to buy into it (that and the fact that all of the expensive Standard cards that I'd be buying are conveniently Modern staples).
Well Black will continue to dominate in one way or another. That much is given.
Now that Atheros, God of Passage and Dictate of Karametra have been spoiled, I believe that we will have a different Standard. This Standard seems awesome enough that I am quitting Modern to buy into it (that and the fact that all of the expensive Standard cards that I'd be buying are conveniently Modern staples).
Well Black will continue to dominate in one way or another. That much is given.
Agreed. Currently I am splashing for Thoughtseize and Read the Bones in Heartbeat 2.0. Thoughtseize just works really well for beating Thoughtseize.
Well with the spoilers so far I can see a few big changes to the meta now. One thing, Black White humans could actually be a big deck with the new god that was spoiled. I think a lot more decks will run enchantment hate now that there are going to be a lot more gods running around in the main decks of the format. Mono Black will definitely be running Lifebane Zombies main decked if Black White makes as big of an impact as I think it might. I really can't wait to see what is left for this set to offer to the decks of the format.
DGM is starting to look like Innistrad if this is really what JOU is going to offer. It sounds extremely disappointing so far. I guess its a fine set if your standards of a MTG set should look like a step slightly above Kamigawa block, but like JOU 30 cards deep looks very depressing in terms of new enemies for Mono B, Mono U and Esper.
Considering that Kamigawa/Ravnica was the best standard format in the history of the game, I absolutely think sets should be around this power level.
All these decks, and all old decks are also gaining new splash options. I probably missed some good cards, but there's my list of potential new cards for decks, for now...
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
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That is because this set is so strong compared to BNG.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
The set looks great though, no complaints from me.
There is the possibility of an enchantment deck doing something. Also, Boros might be back.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
What people really desire though is more than a simple shift of standard where the same strategies exist just using different color combinations, they want a standard where new strategies completely shake things up in the top tiers (something BNG failed to do since only GB "dredge" was particularly new and while decent it didn't shake things up too much). We can only hope we get this type of drastic shift in the "feel" of standard this time around.
@Valanarch: Do you mean Boros aggro? Because Boros burn has been a pretty big thing recently.
Machius proudly supports R_E's right to Rumour!
Yes, play Green combo and R/W Aggro in a world of Lifebane Zombies, Thoughtseizes, and Doom Blades. That sounds like a very solid way to win any rounds in a competitive tournament....
I know the OP is smoking some good stuff, so I will forgive him for his ludicrous statements, but realistically speaking, when the best cards spoiled so far are an anthem, scry lands, and a 2/1 one drop, the set sounds pretty abysmal. We are not even mentioning about how limited got another Wingsteed Rider either no less.
DGM is starting to look like Innistrad if this is really what JOU is going to offer. It sounds extremely disappointing so far. I guess its a fine set if your standards of a MTG set should look like a step slightly above Kamigawa block, but like JOU 30 cards deep looks very depressing in terms of new enemies for Mono B, Mono U and Esper.
Hey, just be glad it hasn't given those existing Archetypes too much in terms of cards
Are we hinting at the fact that the other gods will be worse? lol.
Decks:
Standard:
Gruul aggro
Modern:
MonoG infect
Edh:
Nekusar, Too bad you have to discard your deck at the end step.
Casual:
I'm trying to make tibalt work guys!
Dimir mill
I'll have you know when I saw Phenax spoiled,
I cried for only 20 minutes.
The new cards printed threaten to alter the landscape with the very agressively costed bestow cards, super powerful enchantments (finally) a decent pw and some decent 1-2 drops. We could finally see a shift in the meta. (Green still seems underwhelming though)
At best I see some new tier 2 decks being enabled, which should shake stuff up at your fnm unless you play exclusively with rich netdeckers.
This isn't necessarily true. Cards like Courser of Kruphix, Deathrite Shaman and Boros Reckoner were all kind of brushed upon at the last minute.
I meant the return of Big Boros.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
The gods are nice but people kind of hate things that "do nothing". Even Xenagos God of Revels was very pushed and impactful the turn it's played but that's played as a fringe copy.
My money so far are on are:
gnarled scarhide as a way better cackler/tormented hero
eidolon of blossoms, while fragile, could lead to some CA blowouts and has a flexibility to work around
temples
dictate of kruphix or Dakra Mystic (by god they're pushing turbo fog to tier 1)
Ajani, Mentor of heroes is a bit expensive but is a good CN engine or makes annoying GW weenies threatening, probably a 2x of
ALSO, I can really see Turbo Fog and Maze's End decks being on a big rise because like the last poster said, they are getting some big key cards for their strategy that they really needed to work. My only problem with this type of deck being tier 1 is the fact that boros burn is still a deck
Machius proudly supports R_E's right to Rumour!
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Well Black will continue to dominate in one way or another. That much is given.
Agreed. Currently I am splashing for Thoughtseize and Read the Bones in Heartbeat 2.0. Thoughtseize just works really well for beating Thoughtseize.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Considering that Kamigawa/Ravnica was the best standard format in the history of the game, I absolutely think sets should be around this power level.
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
WB Humans - Main: athreos, god of passage, mana confluence. Side/maybe: underworld coinsmith, hall of triumph, launch the fleet, sightless brawler, dawnbringer charioteers, aegis of the gods, dictate of heliod.
URw spellspam - Main: battlefield thaumaturge, prophetic flamespeaker, temple of epiphany. Side/maybe: spite of mogis
Enchantment.deck - Constellation + efficient enchantment creatures could be a thing.
URW control - Main: Temple. Side/maybe eidolon of rhetoric, dakra mystic
TurboFog - Main: dakra mystic, dictate of kruphix
MonoBlack aggro (MBA) - Main: gnarled scarhide. Side/Maybe: master of the feast, hall of triumph.
MBD - Main: All MBA tools. Side/maybe: silence the believers
All these decks, and all old decks are also gaining new splash options. I probably missed some good cards, but there's my list of potential new cards for decks, for now...
- Manite