Ok, so let's say I cast my 1WW flier, it's a 2/2... Next turn, I use it's monstrous Dragon Breath ability that makes me discard a card and pay 1R to make it have four power, my opponent kills it that turn or at some point later and it makes a 1/1 when it dies, have I achieved a 2 for 1?
Though realistically, let's face it, this card isn't just a 1R, for a 1/1, it's going to often times be a 1R for a 1/1 that has some ability. Is 1R for a 1/1 that says "Tap target creature, it doesn't untap during it's next untap phase" or "Target player loses 1 life and you gain 1 life" or "You get a 1/1 red human token" a bad thing? No... Is it a 2 for 1... No...
Yes, I get it's not a 1 for 1 directly, but it's only marginally better than one, and since when did we start classifying a Ghost Warden as a 2 for 1 because it pumped your dude?
Oh no! Better watch out, I played a Forest, now my Kird Ape gets +1/+2, and if you kill it, that's a 2 for 1 because I get to keep my Forest.
I get what you're attempting to say. Black and white terms it isn't a strict 2 for 1 if you don't put any value on the aura. I don't evaluate in strict black and white and I place a nonzero value on the aura effect.
I get what you're attempting to say. Black and white terms it isn't a strict 2 for 1 if you don't put any value on the aura. I don't evaluate in strict black and white and I place a nonzero value on the aura effect.
No duh, the aura is a what makes the 1/1 and costs you a card... If the aura didn't have a value, or they could kill your guy without you getting any benefit, it would be a strict 1 for 2 in their favour. You get your benefits, you get your 1/1, but it's at the cost of a card, you're basically casting a better Bond Beetle. That still doesn't make it a 2 for 1.
Retraction helix is absurd. I would take it over ornitharch (however you spell it.) Signal that white is open. The reason helix is absurd is that it's voyage's end plus a heroic trigger, that is why it is so nuts. Yes it doesn't scry 1 but it makes up for that by also being able to bounce any nonland. Heroic trigger + bounce your guy is a very powerful effect. Even without the heroic trigger it's still quite useful. Not to mention blue is underrepresented this pack so you cut blue and show and white is open with the ornitharch.
The rollicker is a fine card. Not insane by any stretch. But fine.
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Retraction helix is absurd. I would take it over ornitharch (however you spell it.) Signal that white is open. The reason helix is absurd is that it's voyage's end plus a heroic trigger, that is why it is so nuts. Yes it doesn't scry 1 but it makes up for that by also being able to bounce any nonland. Heroic trigger + bounce your guy is a very powerful effect. Even without the heroic trigger it's still quite useful. Not to mention blue is underrepresented this pack so you cut blue and show and white is open with the ornitharch.
The rollicker is a fine card. Not insane by any stretch. But fine.
Helix isn't absurd in a vacuum. You've isolated its positives and ignored the negatives. It has the potential to do various synergistic things, yes. But I'm not so sure that a simultaneously harder/easier to cast boomerang + upside is worth more than a guaranteed 5 power in the air.
Don't get me wrong, I'll be glad to have it most the time, but I'm not going to first pick it over that much evasive power.
Ornitharch here. It poses two modes, both being really hard for your opponent to deal with. Evasion is as evasion does, and it's as close to a windmill slam without being a bomb. Besides, you never really see signals in the SECOND pick of the pack. Signals are easier to read come the late stages of the pack. Ornitharch becomes that much better as Plea for Guidance may wheel. While not being an insane card, Plea is card advantage and can steer the game in your favor. When you do push this pack, it's not really easy to determine what the guy to your right will be in, since the pack itself is pretty mediocre. They might go into green, depending on how high he/she rates Raised by Wolves or Snake of the Golden Grove.
About Nyxborn Rollicker, it's bestow gives +1/+1. Not even CLOSE to good, aside from a heroic deck. And how often does one come across heroic in red? Heroic is generally a W/U/G thing, and getting a 1/1 after your bestowed creature dies isn't really 2 for 1 or anything of the sort. If nothing else, it's another chump block. Are you really willing to give up a slot in your deck for a 1/1 for R, or a +1/+1 for 1R? Unless I was in red heroic, I wouldn't. Cheap heroic triggers are plentiful in Theros, including Fall of the Hammer for red. Not incredibly exciting to me.
I went with Snake of the Golden Grove, where I love Ornitarch, but my personal reasoning is, the Ornitarch has a CMC of 5 where two of it is WW. Snake only has G. I'm sure that I'd pull two colors, so if this was my first pack that I cracked open, Snake would be my pick, personally. Although Ornitarch is a better pick, I'm just thinking of getting the card out on the field. my 2 cents.
I went with Snake of the Golden Grove, where I love Ornitarch, but my personal reasoning is, the Ornitarch has a CMC of 5 where two of it is WW. Snake only has G. I'm sure that I'd pull two colors, so if this was my first pack that I cracked open, Snake would be my pick, personally. Although Ornitarch is a better pick, I'm just thinking of getting the card out on the field. my 2 cents.
At 5 mana, it is pretty likely that you're going to have WW. You shouldn't really worry about those double mana costs on cards above 4 cmc. It is more of a problem for 2 and 3 drops since you really want to get them out on curve.
I voted for Raised by Wolves but I think I forgot Ornitharch had evasion. I'd take Ornitharch, but it's somewhat close. Raised by wolves does give 1 more power plus a bestow trigger, which is nice, and I hate punisher mechanic cards.
In the same way you can tell someone is from the XVIII century because he is arroused by ankles, you can tell someone is from USA because he feels nipples disturbing.
Raised by Wolves was my slam pick, and even after reading the comments I stand by my pick. Despite the pull for Ornitharch, I feel like if both are guaranteed to hit the battlefield then Raised by Wolves is going to give you a bigger advantage. The only thing that I feel Ornitharch does better is the evasion.
Archetype, Raised, Ornitharch are obviously the best picks here but I'd choose Ornitharch because flying.
I kinda want to take Plea but it seems its more of a card for control so I'd have to try to get the Helix/Dreamfinder back to make it worth it imo. Also, since we are only doing 1 pack of Born the amount of good Enchantments is limited and thus probably is not worth it.
Raised by Wolves is such an awesome card. 5 Mana for a pair of 2/2 and and at least +2/+2; That's basically 6 points of power and 6 points of toughness spread over 3 bodies. That's pretty ridic...
Though I do think that Raised by Wolves is very close. It is 5 mana for 6 additional power on the board, which is sweet. But Ornitharch is 5 mana for 5 evasive power, which is important.
Raised by Wolves has the bonus of being a Heroic trigger, but also suffers to possible instant speed removal, which hurts it a good bit.
Easily Raised by Wolves vs Ornitharch, but between those it was a very difficult decision.
Ultimately I went with Raised because I think it is guaranteed to be a hit in the decks I like to draft, i.e. aggressive ones. Ornitharch will never be bad either, but I can see plenty of times where they just give me the big flyer then hit it with 1-for-1 sorcery speed removal. OTOH with Raised I know I get three things so long as I don't play into instant speed removal:
- Wolf
- Wolf
- +2/+2 and possible heroic trigger for my dude thats about to swing at you.
Raised by wolves is very vulnerable to removal or bounce in response.
Obviously they have reduced the amount of blowouts that can happen with the card because of weakened removal in this block, but the fact remains cards like the following in the common/uncommon slot can stop this easily.
Griptide
Voyage's End
Lightning Strike
Searing Blood
Shredding Winds
Magma Jet
Pharika's Cure
Retraction Helix
Bile Blight
Lash of the Whip
Fall of the Hammer
Dark Betrayal (if put on a black creature)
Last Breath (if creature has 2 or less power)
So if you put the card on a 3/4 creature that doesn't fly it cuts out a vast majority of these. If you put it on a 3/5 creature that doesn't fly it cuts out even more.
The potential of a blowout playing Raised by Wolves is why I don't think the card is a slam dunk first pick in most packs.
I get what you're attempting to say. Black and white terms it isn't a strict 2 for 1 if you don't put any value on the aura. I don't evaluate in strict black and white and I place a nonzero value on the aura effect.
No duh, the aura is a what makes the 1/1 and costs you a card... If the aura didn't have a value, or they could kill your guy without you getting any benefit, it would be a strict 1 for 2 in their favour. You get your benefits, you get your 1/1, but it's at the cost of a card, you're basically casting a better Bond Beetle. That still doesn't make it a 2 for 1.
The rollicker is a fine card. Not insane by any stretch. But fine.
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Helix isn't absurd in a vacuum. You've isolated its positives and ignored the negatives. It has the potential to do various synergistic things, yes. But I'm not so sure that a simultaneously harder/easier to cast boomerang + upside is worth more than a guaranteed 5 power in the air.
Don't get me wrong, I'll be glad to have it most the time, but I'm not going to first pick it over that much evasive power.
About Nyxborn Rollicker, it's bestow gives +1/+1. Not even CLOSE to good, aside from a heroic deck. And how often does one come across heroic in red? Heroic is generally a W/U/G thing, and getting a 1/1 after your bestowed creature dies isn't really 2 for 1 or anything of the sort. If nothing else, it's another chump block. Are you really willing to give up a slot in your deck for a 1/1 for R, or a +1/+1 for 1R? Unless I was in red heroic, I wouldn't. Cheap heroic triggers are plentiful in Theros, including Fall of the Hammer for red. Not incredibly exciting to me.
At 5 mana, it is pretty likely that you're going to have WW. You shouldn't really worry about those double mana costs on cards above 4 cmc. It is more of a problem for 2 and 3 drops since you really want to get them out on curve.
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I kinda want to take Plea but it seems its more of a card for control so I'd have to try to get the Helix/Dreamfinder back to make it worth it imo. Also, since we are only doing 1 pack of Born the amount of good Enchantments is limited and thus probably is not worth it.
Oh wait, Ornitharch is in the pack as well? Ornitharch it is.
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Though I do think that Raised by Wolves is very close. It is 5 mana for 6 additional power on the board, which is sweet. But Ornitharch is 5 mana for 5 evasive power, which is important.
Raised by Wolves has the bonus of being a Heroic trigger, but also suffers to possible instant speed removal, which hurts it a good bit.
Ultimately I went with Raised because I think it is guaranteed to be a hit in the decks I like to draft, i.e. aggressive ones. Ornitharch will never be bad either, but I can see plenty of times where they just give me the big flyer then hit it with 1-for-1 sorcery speed removal. OTOH with Raised I know I get three things so long as I don't play into instant speed removal:
- Wolf
- Wolf
- +2/+2 and possible heroic trigger for my dude thats about to swing at you.
Obviously they have reduced the amount of blowouts that can happen with the card because of weakened removal in this block, but the fact remains cards like the following in the common/uncommon slot can stop this easily.
Griptide
Voyage's End
Lightning Strike
Searing Blood
Shredding Winds
Magma Jet
Pharika's Cure
Retraction Helix
Bile Blight
Lash of the Whip
Fall of the Hammer
Dark Betrayal (if put on a black creature)
Last Breath (if creature has 2 or less power)
So if you put the card on a 3/4 creature that doesn't fly it cuts out a vast majority of these. If you put it on a 3/5 creature that doesn't fly it cuts out even more.
The potential of a blowout playing Raised by Wolves is why I don't think the card is a slam dunk first pick in most packs.
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