Crypsis. Early-game enabler, late game finisher. Looking to take that and go U/X heroic, likely UW or WU. The other option is to go UG and draft heroic/beats.
Excoriate - I chose this one because in general removal is what I feel most comfortable blindly drafting. Though I don't necessarily think it was the best option in retrospect.
Retraction Helix - At first glance this card seemed strong. Haven't given it a second look, I rest my case. I'm not sure how I feel about blue in this limited, but IRL this is probably the card I would've first picked.
Hero - This seems good, and relevant at any point in the game. Probably the safest pick, honestly. It still gives you plenty of building room due to it's synergy with bestow/various heroic enablers.
I'd take Hero, and I don't feel like it's particularly close.
Heh. I was going to say Spiteful Returned, and there isn't even a close 2nd. Hero is quite a ways behind as a "potential" card. It requires a lot of mana and an enabler, and even then isn't a great return on investment until you cast a second enabler.
Spiteful Returned is a pretty good card at 2cmc, or a great card at 4cmc. Doesn't require anything other than having a creature on the board.
The power level in this pack seems really even amongst the best cards, so as a tie breaker, I went with Excoriate in hopes of cutting off white. Powerful, no synergies needed, and cuts off a color.
The Graverobber Spider seemed like another great standalone card, but with Hero of Leina Tower being in the same pack, I thought it was best to pick the unconditional indestructible creature removing spell and let other drafters fight over the two green cards.
The Hero seems like the obvious first choice but there are plenty of ways for opponents to deal 1 or 2 damage to creatures in the block: this means that I'd like to try and get the heroic trigger on the same turn that I cast it to ensure survival. This doesn't make it bad or even close to that but since bestow is awesome I'm going for Spiteful Returned here.
off-topic: the flavour text for Retraction Helix has a mistake, it should be "comprehension" not "comprehending". Strange mistake or maybe my english isn't as good as I like to think it is (I speak French primarily)
They have to be playing red to really "easily" deal 1-2 damage. I guess Black has a few ways to give it -1/-1 or -3/-3 at instant speed but red overall has the most ways to eliminate it.
Even still plenty of people don't even bother running their 1 damage or -1/-1 spells main deck.
Upon review, I have to wonder if the Hero is even *playable* let alone a first pick. Even in a best case scenario situation, I don't think it is first-pickable. I'm not sure I would even want to grab it late in the pack unless I had a ton of cheap tricks.
I look at it like this. I have to question if A. Is it reliable, and B. Is it worth it?
I look at A. and you have to figure that in order to get any value out of the Hero you need to:
1. Cast it.
2. Target it
3. Have mana left over that you don't want to spend on anything else.
4. Not get hit by spot removal or some other trick.
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And at this point you've essentially cast a XG vanilla Hydra that you spent multiple turns pumping and required you to target it specifically with mana left over to even get to this point.
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It is here that I question whether it is even worth going through all the trouble to get to this point.
Assuming you have more tricks (and more mana) you can keep making it bigger, assuming your opponent can't remove it. But even then, you're left with a vanilla beater that requires you not spend any of your tricks on other creatures.
Next I think about just how easy it is to actually have mana left over after targeting this thing. The vast majority of Bestow creatures cost significant amounts of mana. To have anything left over from that you'll need to be very late into the game. Most of the cheaper tricks or enchantments are much better early in the game than they are late when you'll have the mana (the Ordeals, for example.) So what exactly do you want to be saving to cast at this?
I put it all together, and I'm not even sure that the card is worth picking, in general. It is a card with 1cmc that really doesn't do anything until you're very late in the game, and even then just becomes a slightly bigger vanilla beater that requires you target it to get proper value out of your tricks (that you might want to play on other creatures.)
I 100% agree with this analysis. A huge part of the benefit of the regular +1/+1 counter heroic creatures is that you don't have to invest anything extra to get the bonus. You can leave up just enough mana for the heroic trigger spell. But with this hero it takes a whole lot more. So I think that in most situations I would prefer to just have Favored Hoplite. That card isn't necessarily first pickable, so I don't think this should be first picked. I'd probably take Spiteful Returned as well.
Spiteful Return is the safe pick and Hero is the high risk/high reward one. You do need cheap auras and tricks to make the hero good, but when his good he is brutal. Spiteful Returned is overall solid, but a +1/+1 hardly helps when you're behind the board, neither do the life loss.
Excoriate and Helix is the correct choice if this meta is very different from Theros. In Theros you go crazy voltron before going for removal. The removal is junky and Bestow make so you need board presence to not get 2-for-1 all day long. Bestow and Heroes over removal all the way.
The spider is not even close. There's not a strong graveyard theme in the set, I wouldn't expect the ability to go for more then +3/+3 that frequently and it's heavy ability. Nessian Wasp is better then this by a mile.
I would go for the Hero and hope for some cheap combat tricks and heroics.
The spider is not even close. There's not a strong graveyard theme in the set, I wouldn't expect the ability to go for more then +3/+3 that frequently and it's heavy ability. Nessian Wasp is better then this by a mile.
The spider is a Giant Spider that can potentially get a little bigger. Giant Spider has a long history of respectable performance in limited environments.
The spider is a Giant Spider that can potentially get a little bigger. Giant Spider has a long history of respectable performance in limited environments.
I think the point he is making is not that the card is bad, simply that it isn't first pickable. You'd be very happy getting a spider with later picks.
Hero of Leina Tower for sure. It's definitely not an early game card, by any means. Magic wonderland makes me want to cast Gods' Willing on her and pump her for as much as I can muster. Heroic is certainly strong, and this card is strong with it. Expected wheels aren't looking good, I expect Thassa's Rebuff, Kragma Butcher and Scouring Sands to make it around, but that doesn't really do anything for our Heroic deck. Add to that you're passing Spiteful Returned, and you might be rewarded in Theros pack 2. I would certainly enjoy seeing Banishing Knack or Crypsis to make it around, but I doubt seeing those cards late.
Retraction Helix - At first glance this card seemed strong. Haven't given it a second look, I rest my case. I'm not sure how I feel about blue in this limited, but IRL this is probably the card I would've first picked.
Hero - This seems good, and relevant at any point in the game. Probably the safest pick, honestly. It still gives you plenty of building room due to it's synergy with bestow/various heroic enablers.
STANDARD
UB Midrange
Modern
U-Tron
Heh. I was going to say Spiteful Returned, and there isn't even a close 2nd. Hero is quite a ways behind as a "potential" card. It requires a lot of mana and an enabler, and even then isn't a great return on investment until you cast a second enabler.
Spiteful Returned is a pretty good card at 2cmc, or a great card at 4cmc. Doesn't require anything other than having a creature on the board.
The power level in this pack seems really even amongst the best cards, so as a tie breaker, I went with Excoriate in hopes of cutting off white. Powerful, no synergies needed, and cuts off a color.
The Graverobber Spider seemed like another great standalone card, but with Hero of Leina Tower being in the same pack, I thought it was best to pick the unconditional indestructible creature removing spell and let other drafters fight over the two green cards.
"Serious question, why are the people in the mtgsal thread so ****ing stupid?"
What Magic Color are You, MORON ?
They have to be playing red to really "easily" deal 1-2 damage. I guess Black has a few ways to give it -1/-1 or -3/-3 at instant speed but red overall has the most ways to eliminate it.
Even still plenty of people don't even bother running their 1 damage or -1/-1 spells main deck.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
I look at it like this. I have to question if A. Is it reliable, and B. Is it worth it?
I look at A. and you have to figure that in order to get any value out of the Hero you need to:
1. Cast it.
2. Target it
3. Have mana left over that you don't want to spend on anything else.
4. Not get hit by spot removal or some other trick.
-----------------------
And at this point you've essentially cast a XG vanilla Hydra that you spent multiple turns pumping and required you to target it specifically with mana left over to even get to this point.
-----------------------
It is here that I question whether it is even worth going through all the trouble to get to this point.
Assuming you have more tricks (and more mana) you can keep making it bigger, assuming your opponent can't remove it. But even then, you're left with a vanilla beater that requires you not spend any of your tricks on other creatures.
Next I think about just how easy it is to actually have mana left over after targeting this thing. The vast majority of Bestow creatures cost significant amounts of mana. To have anything left over from that you'll need to be very late into the game. Most of the cheaper tricks or enchantments are much better early in the game than they are late when you'll have the mana (the Ordeals, for example.) So what exactly do you want to be saving to cast at this?
I put it all together, and I'm not even sure that the card is worth picking, in general. It is a card with 1cmc that really doesn't do anything until you're very late in the game, and even then just becomes a slightly bigger vanilla beater that requires you target it to get proper value out of your tricks (that you might want to play on other creatures.)
Spiteful Returned is the easy pick.
I 100% agree with this analysis. A huge part of the benefit of the regular +1/+1 counter heroic creatures is that you don't have to invest anything extra to get the bonus. You can leave up just enough mana for the heroic trigger spell. But with this hero it takes a whole lot more. So I think that in most situations I would prefer to just have Favored Hoplite. That card isn't necessarily first pickable, so I don't think this should be first picked. I'd probably take Spiteful Returned as well.
Spiteful Return is the safe pick and Hero is the high risk/high reward one. You do need cheap auras and tricks to make the hero good, but when his good he is brutal. Spiteful Returned is overall solid, but a +1/+1 hardly helps when you're behind the board, neither do the life loss.
Excoriate and Helix is the correct choice if this meta is very different from Theros. In Theros you go crazy voltron before going for removal. The removal is junky and Bestow make so you need board presence to not get 2-for-1 all day long. Bestow and Heroes over removal all the way.
The spider is not even close. There's not a strong graveyard theme in the set, I wouldn't expect the ability to go for more then +3/+3 that frequently and it's heavy ability. Nessian Wasp is better then this by a mile.
I would go for the Hero and hope for some cheap combat tricks and heroics.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
The spider is a Giant Spider that can potentially get a little bigger. Giant Spider has a long history of respectable performance in limited environments.
I think the point he is making is not that the card is bad, simply that it isn't first pickable. You'd be very happy getting a spider with later picks.
I pick spiteful
spider is a solid body that only requires that other creatures have come before it. pretty easy scenario for a strong late game mana sink.
reach is also very strong in limited.
Nothing
Modern:
Cruel Control, UR Delver, RUG midrange, Akroma's Elfmorial
EDH:
Animar, Chainer, Derevi the Stonehewer Mystic, Nekusar