This is a card that is perfectly reasonable for standard. Combos very effectively with a hammer of purphoros on the curve. 5/5 flyer for 4 is a great deal, however, the other effect is what bumps it up to mythic rarity.
Also totally awesome with Xenagos, God of Revels. You either get a 6/6 with haste and recursion, or a 10/10 with haste. Both options end up being baaaaaaad for your opponent.
It's not incredible, but it's good. If I'm evaluating the card for it's 5/5 mode, and I think we should, I'd pick it over Desecration Demon in a RB deck. They are equally slow and dumb, they die to pretty much all the same removal, and Phoenix's -1/-1 is worth not having the sac-to-tap drawback in my opinion.
It's absolutely nowhere near as good as Stormbreath Dragon... but it doesn't compete with the Dragon. It curves into it.
As I wrote earlier somewhere else, I find it kinda annoying how insane it is with Xenagod. They are really pushing RG. A red fatty that's yonks better if you play green? Green already have all the fatties, come on.
But yes, I'm probably going to play 1-2 of Phoenix in WBR, and I'm currently not running Demon.
And I agree that it should be rare, not mythic. But it doesn't matter much to me.
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Very niche, but with the mana untapped and a Lightning Strike in hand, I could see not paying the tribute in order to zap it in response to the ETB.
It does not work this way. Tribute is a replacement effect like Unleash, not a triggered ability. It either enters as a 3/3 or a 5/5. Tribute does not go on the stack.
It does not work this way. Tribute is a replacement effect like Unleash, not a triggered ability. It either enters as a 3/3 or a 5/5. Tribute does not go on the stack.
The "[Flame-Wreathed Phoenix] gains haste and has 'When this creature dies, return it to its owners hand'" clause, however, is a triggered ability to which you can respond.
It does not work this way. Tribute is a replacement effect like Unleash, not a triggered ability. It either enters as a 3/3 or a 5/5. Tribute does not go on the stack.
However, to clarify, the creature gaining it's recursion is a triggered ability. So if they don't pay tribute, it enters as a 3/3 with the ability "When this enters the battlefield, if tribute wasn't paid..." triggering and going on the stack. Which does give the opponent the very slight opening to remove it with Strike or Bile Blight.
Still, I know that most player's won't realize this, or that the opening is small enough where you can easily get it through without worry.
The "[Flame-Wreathed Phoenix] gains haste and has 'When this creature dies, return it to its owners hand'" clause, however, is a triggered ability to which you can respond.
Honestly, this card should have haste right next to where it says "flying" instead of in the tribute effect, that would make it not only playable, but a great contender for my favorite red card.
The recycle ability should have been default. It's a Phoenix. That's what they do. Theros should have been where the most powerful Phoenix to date resides. I love the art on this one most.
The problem is the same one exava had before rotation. It's good I would love to play it in my R/W devotion deck hammer would make this thing scary. But what to cut.... The stuff in the curve where I would put it have all around better value...
The problem is the same one exava had before rotation. It's good I would love to play it in my R/W devotion deck hammer would make this thing scary. But what to cut.... The stuff in the curve where I would put it have all around better value...
I don't the amount of people who play ember shallower in there's but that's what I'm taking out
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If you have a budget, you shouldn't play magic competitively
So, can i get some clarifications on these rulings accidentally released by wizards today?
"Players can't respond to the tribute decision before the creature enters the battlefield. That is, if the opponent doesn't pay tribute, the triggered ability will trigger before any player has a chance to remove the creature.
The triggered ability will resolve even if the creature with tribute isn't on the battlefield at that time."
Does this mean that the Pheonix will gain its when dead effect if tribute hasn't been payed, no matter what?
So, can i get some clarifications on these rulings accidentally released by wizards today?
"Players can't respond to the tribute decision before the creature enters the battlefield. That is, if the opponent doesn't pay tribute, the triggered ability will trigger before any player has a chance to remove the creature.
The triggered ability will resolve even if the creature with tribute isn't on the battlefield at that time."
Does this mean that the Pheonix will gain its when dead effect if tribute hasn't been payed, no matter what?
The part of tribute that puts the counters on is not an ETB triggered ability. You can tell this because it uses the words "As this enters..." as opposed to "when this ETB...". So the choice of whether or not to pay the tribute is made when the spell resolves, which is why you can't respond to that choice itself. When the spell is finished resolving, the creature Enters the Battlefield, and its triggered ability triggers if (and only if) the Tribute was not payed. Then that triggered ability goes onto the stack. Finally, that is when the active player would get priority again, but by that point, the triggered ability is already on the stack, and killing the creature in response will not stop that ability from resolving.
EDIT: I should point out that with the Phoenix: Though the Tribute ETB triggered ability will still resolve, if you kill it in response to that ability, it won't yet have gained the ability "when this dies, return it to it's owner's hand". Thus, it will die and since it doesn't have the "dies" trigger yet, it will just go to its owner's graveyard and stay there.
While thought this was going to be good, testing on 'trice has mostly shown otherwise. When you are in an advantageous position, this is great for keeping the pressure up. However, after a wipe this gives them another turn to try to find an answer. Rarely have I topdecked this when losing(after a control opponent has stabilized for example) and won off of it, as Stormbreath is so good at. The option also allows Jace to reduce him to 2 damage per turn and ignore him long enough to draw exile removal, get Elspeth, or start chaining Revelations. There have been VERY few times that I have drawn this that I wouldn't have rather drawn Xenagos (Walker version).
This was in Gruul aggro, in a midrange shell maybe it's better, but as someone who liked it at first I now think this is only okay. Might still be playable, but far from an all-star.
To everyone here, I'll put this as easy as possible:
90% OF ALL CREATURES IN STANDARD ARE EASILY DEALT WITH!
Ok, now that I got that out, I will explain why:
Gods- We have a couple of exile enchantment spells running around in Nayan colors and Bounce potential in Blue. Black is the only thing that can't immediately deal with Gods, but by the time the gods come out, if mono-black is playing, it should have been over. Also, not a single god has Hexproof. Easy answers I say for the sideboard.
Fatties- Black effectively deals with them without the hassle of dealing damage. Blue can just bounce them and white has some ways to exile them, though they are a bit situational. Red can fire spells at them, but WHY DO THAT if you can aim for the face and have a damage race you know you can win 70% of the time. Green will just answer fatties with bigger fatties.
The Rest- Unless you have creatures with Hexproof or Shroud (Been a minute since I've seen on of them), EVERY COLOR CAN DEAL WITH THEM ACCORDINGLY!!! Red has cheap and easy burn, blue can as always bounce them back, black can do the whole die or wither thing, white can exile, and green just muscles them in the form of creatures.
To say that this Phoenix is bad because it can be removed is the same reason why every creature in this set and most of modern is bad. It's baseless to say the least.
Now, if you were to say that with the current meta, it has competition for a spot or because of "Smarter" players choosing this bird's fate, then I wouldn't be so incline to yell.
That said, the bird can be killed easily, but if you don't have that answer, what will you do.
RDW and Red-Devotion is nice for this card, though I picture this more as a sideboard answer card rather than maindeck.
I think you just go 5/5 every time.
In terms of the 2 top decks.
Mono-black - Have a 5/5 eat removal spell.
Mono-blue - Here comes Tidebinder Mage or chump blocking with Judge's Familiar, Nightveil Specter or Cloudfin Raptor and still winning the race thanks to unblockable creatures with broken all star Thassa, God of the Sea.
$2-$5 is all I'd pay for it. Just too vanilla.
Against Boros it's just gonna be Chained to the Rocks. Against control they'll let you have a 5/5 and hit it with Supreme Verdict or Detention Sphere.
Strictly worse than Chandra's Phoenix because your opponent can take haste away from it and hit it with sorcery speed removal.
Want something to do on turn 4? Cast Ash Zealot with Lightning Strike or Boros Charm or cast a Boros Reckoner leaving a mana untapped to give him first strike or maybe cast your own Chained to the Rocks.
this is not a 20 dollar card. my guess is 5 at most. a 20 dollar card is a standard playable walker power level.
It's absolutely nowhere near as good as Stormbreath Dragon... but it doesn't compete with the Dragon. It curves into it.
As I wrote earlier somewhere else, I find it kinda annoying how insane it is with Xenagod. They are really pushing RG. A red fatty that's yonks better if you play green? Green already have all the fatties, come on.
But yes, I'm probably going to play 1-2 of Phoenix in WBR, and I'm currently not running Demon.
And I agree that it should be rare, not mythic. But it doesn't matter much to me.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
It does not work this way. Tribute is a replacement effect like Unleash, not a triggered ability. It either enters as a 3/3 or a 5/5. Tribute does not go on the stack.
OMG everything dies to removal, that's why its called removal *sigh*
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Good card but not soo good in todays standard post rotation can see play
However, to clarify, the creature gaining it's recursion is a triggered ability. So if they don't pay tribute, it enters as a 3/3 with the ability "When this enters the battlefield, if tribute wasn't paid..." triggering and going on the stack. Which does give the opponent the very slight opening to remove it with Strike or Bile Blight.
Still, I know that most player's won't realize this, or that the opening is small enough where you can easily get it through without worry.
I see what you're saying.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I don't the amount of people who play ember shallower in there's but that's what I'm taking out
If you have a budget, you shouldn't play magic competitively
Main Deck: What's left
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/standard-deck-creation/602378-kolaghan-dragons
trade me:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/1277-almost-done
"Players can't respond to the tribute decision before the creature enters the battlefield. That is, if the opponent doesn't pay tribute, the triggered ability will trigger before any player has a chance to remove the creature.
The triggered ability will resolve even if the creature with tribute isn't on the battlefield at that time."
Does this mean that the Pheonix will gain its when dead effect if tribute hasn't been payed, no matter what?
The part of tribute that puts the counters on is not an ETB triggered ability. You can tell this because it uses the words "As this enters..." as opposed to "when this ETB...". So the choice of whether or not to pay the tribute is made when the spell resolves, which is why you can't respond to that choice itself. When the spell is finished resolving, the creature Enters the Battlefield, and its triggered ability triggers if (and only if) the Tribute was not payed. Then that triggered ability goes onto the stack. Finally, that is when the active player would get priority again, but by that point, the triggered ability is already on the stack, and killing the creature in response will not stop that ability from resolving.
EDIT: I should point out that with the Phoenix: Though the Tribute ETB triggered ability will still resolve, if you kill it in response to that ability, it won't yet have gained the ability "when this dies, return it to it's owner's hand". Thus, it will die and since it doesn't have the "dies" trigger yet, it will just go to its owner's graveyard and stay there.
This was in Gruul aggro, in a midrange shell maybe it's better, but as someone who liked it at first I now think this is only okay. Might still be playable, but far from an all-star.
90% OF ALL CREATURES IN STANDARD ARE EASILY DEALT WITH!
Ok, now that I got that out, I will explain why:
Gods- We have a couple of exile enchantment spells running around in Nayan colors and Bounce potential in Blue. Black is the only thing that can't immediately deal with Gods, but by the time the gods come out, if mono-black is playing, it should have been over. Also, not a single god has Hexproof. Easy answers I say for the sideboard.
Fatties- Black effectively deals with them without the hassle of dealing damage. Blue can just bounce them and white has some ways to exile them, though they are a bit situational. Red can fire spells at them, but WHY DO THAT if you can aim for the face and have a damage race you know you can win 70% of the time. Green will just answer fatties with bigger fatties.
The Rest- Unless you have creatures with Hexproof or Shroud (Been a minute since I've seen on of them), EVERY COLOR CAN DEAL WITH THEM ACCORDINGLY!!! Red has cheap and easy burn, blue can as always bounce them back, black can do the whole die or wither thing, white can exile, and green just muscles them in the form of creatures.
To say that this Phoenix is bad because it can be removed is the same reason why every creature in this set and most of modern is bad. It's baseless to say the least.
Now, if you were to say that with the current meta, it has competition for a spot or because of "Smarter" players choosing this bird's fate, then I wouldn't be so incline to yell.
That said, the bird can be killed easily, but if you don't have that answer, what will you do.
RDW and Red-Devotion is nice for this card, though I picture this more as a sideboard answer card rather than maindeck.
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