I'm in agreement with prosistheplumber post on the first page, this card is crazy. This will see play in almost all formats.
Granted it has a downside but that just means not every deck can run her, and the ones who can are going to impose a serous threat. I think her biggest impact is going to land on Legacy.
I hope she doesn't end up being too expensive, I would like my playset, but don't wanna invest a lot on something to sit in a binder.
I hope she doesn't end up being too expensive, I would like my playset, but don't wanna invest a lot on something to sit in a binder.
As strong as it is, it is also narrow enough that the price shouldn't be too high. Shouldn't see too much Standard play, and in older formats there are plenty of decks that don't want this effect (unlike Deathrite Shaman for example, which has a high price thanks to its ubiquity in Modern/Legacy).
Loxodon Smiter was a mid-power rare from a high-powered set with cards for all formats, so tons of packs were opened and the value of the set concentrated to the best cards (Decay, Deathrite, Jace, Rev, Shocks) and Smiter just isn't that good. This set meanwhile looks to be an absolute bust in terms of expected value after the first few weeks, so a card like this might actually have to pull some weight for the set.
I'd expect this to follow a similar trajectory to Thalia, past the similarities on the design level: they both go in similar decks, both are fringe standard but role players in eternal, both were from small 2nd sets with barely any other playable rares and a few really solid uncommons leeching pack value, and thus it's likely both will be relatively underhyped during presale-launch period and climb slowly thereafter.
Oh, I thought he was talking about playing a spell that is countering a spell with counters on it as it comes into play, but I see you guys were just discussing whether he was flashing a creature with flash in order to flash a flashback or just flashing a creature with flash but not needing flash in order to flashback a spell without flash.
As strong as it is, it is also narrow enough that the price shouldn't be too high. Shouldn't see too much Standard play, and in older formats there are plenty of decks that don't want this effect (unlike Deathrite Shaman for example, which has a high price thanks to its ubiquity in Modern/Legacy).
I figured as much, I was thinking along the same lines. It's cost will probably be high for a little while and then settle around $4-6, or at least I hope. Kinda like how Thalia came in strong and smoothed out.
You are correct when saying there are many decks that DONT want this effect, so it may even be less spectacular then we (or I) think.
this hoses all cantrips used in legacy. gitaxian probe, ponder and preordain are equally hosed. so good against TES, SnS, sneak attack, GRISELBANNED, and moderately ok against delver. this card is just unbelievably good for legacy. sideboarded against twin in modern, and barely, as it just dies to twin, but that's it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard:
Nothing Modern:
Cruel Control, UR Delver, RUG midrange, Akroma's Elfmorial EDH:
Animar, Chainer, Derevi the Stonehewer Mystic, Nekusar
If I ran boros again id go this route-
Akroan Hoplite
Daring Skyjek
Wojek Halberdiers
Spirit of the Labyrinth
Gore-House Chainwalker
Legions Initiative
If I ran boros again id go this route-
Akroan Hoplite
Daring Skyjek
Wojek Halberdiers
Spirit of the Labyrinth
Gore-House Chainwalker
Legions Initiative
This card will see a ton of play in eternal formats. Brainstorming while your opponent sits on an Aether Vial with two counters just became far more dangerous
This will have likely zero implications in the current Standard but this may be good in Modern and Legacy. I'll get as many as I can in the pre release provided they are decently cheap (3-5 USD). If they go up, yay me. If not, no big harm done.
This will have likely zero implications in the current Standard but this may be good in Modern and Legacy. I'll get as many as I can in the pre release provided they are decently cheap (3-5 USD). If they go up, yay me. If not, no big harm done.
This is one of those cards that probably isn't going to be worth more than a few bucks, but will see a lot of play. It doesn't go in every deck that can run it. I'm thinking the price will be similar to Thalia
in the matchups where it's good, this is a lot better than thalia. there's only a couple of matchups where thalia is marginally better (mud and affinity, TES/Tendrils), but otherwise this just stops cantrips. this is much better in the existing format, full of griselbrand, delver, and brainstorm/jace decks. it could very easily replace mainboard thalias, delegating her to sideboard duty to come out in the matches where she's a house.
at the moment it's not that good in modern. modern cantripping is single card at instant speed. it doesn't stop shadow of doubt or think twice. it can slow down twin, but twin really doesn't care about another easy electrolyze target.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard:
Nothing Modern:
Cruel Control, UR Delver, RUG midrange, Akroma's Elfmorial EDH:
Animar, Chainer, Derevi the Stonehewer Mystic, Nekusar
Everyone is saying it is irrelevant in standard aside from hosing sphinx.
However it also nulls out underworld connections + bident.
I am not saying that means she will have an impact on standard, but 3 power for 2 mana, with a relevant hosing ability, in a colour that can easily protect/buff a creature is nothing to scoff at.
Skyjack sees fringe play, and is pretty much a 3/1 vanilla since his batallion trigger is near useless.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Give credit, where credit is due. Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found. The whip is kept for special occasions
The Internet was a revelation to me, I never imagined there are so many idiots on this planet.
However it also nulls out underworld connections + bident.
Not underworld connections. With connections, you can use it at the end of the opponent's turn. The spirit restricts each player to one card per turn, which is exactly what the connections player will be doing. Drawing a card on their turn and on their opponent's turn. Spirit won't change that and thus spirit doesn't hose connections.
Was just thinking this might settle to be a $3 card that's foil version is $25+.
Look at how big the foil markup is on other cards that have mostly Legacy/Vintage appeal (or Modern/Legacy/Vintage) like Abrupt Decay, Deathrite Shaman, Brainstorm and Griselbrand.
Not underworld connections. With connections, you can use it at the end of the opponent's turn. The spirit restricts each player to one card per turn, which is exactly what the connections player will be doing. Drawing a card on their turn and on their opponent's turn. Spirit won't change that and thus spirit doesn't hose connections.
Actually, if you watch games where players run Underworld Connections, drawing on their own turn isn't particularly uncommon. They need to hit their land drops, after all, and if they are sitting at 4-5 lands, they will generally use connections to try and draw into a land to play for the turn. It also stops multiple Connections from being useful. So there is that.
Basically, it screws up the versatility of the card. Which is nice
Actually, if you watch games where players run Underworld Connections, drawing on their own turn isn't particularly uncommon. They need to hit their land drops, after all, and if they are sitting at 4-5 lands, they will generally use connections to try and draw into a land to play for the turn. It also stops multiple Connections from being useful. So there is that.
Basically, it screws up the versatility of the card. Which is nice
its an extremely narrow viewpoint and still doesn't make the card good in the format.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard:
Nothing Modern:
Cruel Control, UR Delver, RUG midrange, Akroma's Elfmorial EDH:
Animar, Chainer, Derevi the Stonehewer Mystic, Nekusar
This card will warp legacy and force new archetypes and a more constantly shifting metagame. People have had debates on whether or not Brainstorm should be banned for a long time now and this card seeing print puts a lot more pressure on the Brainstorm decks. At the same time, being a low cmc 1 toughness creature simultaneously alleviates some deck building constraints that True-Name Nemesis has placed on the format;Main deck pyroclasm effects feel legitimized in Brainstorm decks (Causing Stoneforge decks to inbreed further and cannibalize ). This card was aimed right at the face of the two Boogeymen of the format: Sneak and Show(Brainstorm/Griselbrand) and Death/Stone-Blade (Brainstorm,True-Name).
Get ready for a massive turn-over in legacy, and a much needed reprieve from the tier system we are used to. I hope (and believe) that this will allow many new and existing archetypes to rise to competitive levels.
Skyjack sees fringe play, and is pretty much a 3/1 vanilla since his batallion trigger is near useless.
Daring Skyjeck is also a Human, which makes it better with Xathrid Necromancer, which is important in the Orzhov Humans deck where the Skyjeck has found a home.
For White Weenie, Spirit is a solid upgrade, even if the effect will be irrelevant.
This might be worth playing in Modern in GW hatebears. It definitely makes it into the list of cards that are considered(since hatebears changes pretty constantly). While spirit doesn't hate on storm as well as Ethersworn Canonist, it does make comboing a lot harder for storm to manage, while providing an extra point of power to help close games and being helpful against more decks.
In standard I don't know if it's quite as good. A 3/1 for two isn't bad, but it lacks the human typing of skyjek and there are a lot fewer cards for it to hate on. It can turn off Sphinx's Revelation and weakens Connections/Erebos, but is easily handled. Should be played, but won't be format-defining.
Overrated for Legacy/Vintage. Underrated for Standard. You're all forgetting 3/1 is actually good in type 2 whereas in 1.5 the body isn't to relevant.
A 3/1 body seems much more relevant in eternal formats. He trades with pretty much everything except a decent Tarmogoyf and is a 7 turn clock (although he'll most likely be played in somewhat aggressive decks). In standard, he's basically just going to trade with your opponent's 1-2 drop and his ability isn't going to do much against anything but control (and even then, only against Divination and Sphinx's Revelation)
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Boros Elite
3 Legion Loyalist
2 Aurelia, the Warleader
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Daring Skyjek
4 Precinct Captain
2 Ash Zealot
1 Angelic Skirmisher
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Legion's Initiative
1 Renounce the Guilds
1 Angelic Edict
1 Aurelia's Fury
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
8 plains
4 Mountain
2 Rootborn Defenses
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Soul Tithe
3 Rest in Peace
1 Keening Apparition
Granted it has a downside but that just means not every deck can run her, and the ones who can are going to impose a serous threat. I think her biggest impact is going to land on Legacy.
I hope she doesn't end up being too expensive, I would like my playset, but don't wanna invest a lot on something to sit in a binder.
As strong as it is, it is also narrow enough that the price shouldn't be too high. Shouldn't see too much Standard play, and in older formats there are plenty of decks that don't want this effect (unlike Deathrite Shaman for example, which has a high price thanks to its ubiquity in Modern/Legacy).
I'd expect this to follow a similar trajectory to Thalia, past the similarities on the design level: they both go in similar decks, both are fringe standard but role players in eternal, both were from small 2nd sets with barely any other playable rares and a few really solid uncommons leeching pack value, and thus it's likely both will be relatively underhyped during presale-launch period and climb slowly thereafter.
-regarding Snapcaster Mage.
I figured as much, I was thinking along the same lines. It's cost will probably be high for a little while and then settle around $4-6, or at least I hope. Kinda like how Thalia came in strong and smoothed out.
You are correct when saying there are many decks that DONT want this effect, so it may even be less spectacular then we (or I) think.
this hoses all cantrips used in legacy. gitaxian probe, ponder and preordain are equally hosed. so good against TES, SnS, sneak attack, GRISELBANNED, and moderately ok against delver. this card is just unbelievably good for legacy. sideboarded against twin in modern, and barely, as it just dies to twin, but that's it.
Nothing
Modern:
Cruel Control, UR Delver, RUG midrange, Akroma's Elfmorial
EDH:
Animar, Chainer, Derevi the Stonehewer Mystic, Nekusar
I like how boros gets a new 3/* creature.
If I ran boros again id go this route-
Akroan Hoplite
Daring Skyjek
Wojek Halberdiers
Spirit of the Labyrinth
Gore-House Chainwalker
Legions Initiative
totally forgot about Akroan Hoplite & Wojek Halberdiers & Gore-House Chainwalker
thnx
Standard:
GU Prophet
Legacy:
WBU Shared Fate
Trades
This is one of those cards that probably isn't going to be worth more than a few bucks, but will see a lot of play. It doesn't go in every deck that can run it. I'm thinking the price will be similar to Thalia
Standard:
GU Prophet
Legacy:
WBU Shared Fate
Trades
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
at the moment it's not that good in modern. modern cantripping is single card at instant speed. it doesn't stop shadow of doubt or think twice. it can slow down twin, but twin really doesn't care about another easy electrolyze target.
Nothing
Modern:
Cruel Control, UR Delver, RUG midrange, Akroma's Elfmorial
EDH:
Animar, Chainer, Derevi the Stonehewer Mystic, Nekusar
However it also nulls out underworld connections + bident.
I am not saying that means she will have an impact on standard, but 3 power for 2 mana, with a relevant hosing ability, in a colour that can easily protect/buff a creature is nothing to scoff at.
Skyjack sees fringe play, and is pretty much a 3/1 vanilla since his batallion trigger is near useless.
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
Not underworld connections. With connections, you can use it at the end of the opponent's turn. The spirit restricts each player to one card per turn, which is exactly what the connections player will be doing. Drawing a card on their turn and on their opponent's turn. Spirit won't change that and thus spirit doesn't hose connections.
Look at how big the foil markup is on other cards that have mostly Legacy/Vintage appeal (or Modern/Legacy/Vintage) like Abrupt Decay, Deathrite Shaman, Brainstorm and Griselbrand.
Actually, if you watch games where players run Underworld Connections, drawing on their own turn isn't particularly uncommon. They need to hit their land drops, after all, and if they are sitting at 4-5 lands, they will generally use connections to try and draw into a land to play for the turn. It also stops multiple Connections from being useful. So there is that.
Basically, it screws up the versatility of the card. Which is nice
its an extremely narrow viewpoint and still doesn't make the card good in the format.
Nothing
Modern:
Cruel Control, UR Delver, RUG midrange, Akroma's Elfmorial
EDH:
Animar, Chainer, Derevi the Stonehewer Mystic, Nekusar
Get ready for a massive turn-over in legacy, and a much needed reprieve from the tier system we are used to. I hope (and believe) that this will allow many new and existing archetypes to rise to competitive levels.
Born of the Gods is shaping up to be outstanding
Daring Skyjeck is also a Human, which makes it better with Xathrid Necromancer, which is important in the Orzhov Humans deck where the Skyjeck has found a home.
For White Weenie, Spirit is a solid upgrade, even if the effect will be irrelevant.
In standard I don't know if it's quite as good. A 3/1 for two isn't bad, but it lacks the human typing of skyjek and there are a lot fewer cards for it to hate on. It can turn off Sphinx's Revelation and weakens Connections/Erebos, but is easily handled. Should be played, but won't be format-defining.
A 3/1 body seems much more relevant in eternal formats. He trades with pretty much everything except a decent Tarmogoyf and is a 7 turn clock (although he'll most likely be played in somewhat aggressive decks). In standard, he's basically just going to trade with your opponent's 1-2 drop and his ability isn't going to do much against anything but control (and even then, only against Divination and Sphinx's Revelation)
Standard:
GU Prophet
Legacy:
WBU Shared Fate
Trades