Toxic Deluge 2b
Sorcery Rare
As an additional cost to cast Toxic Deluge, pay X life.
All creatures get -X/-X until end of turn.
I feel as though this card is not getting the credit it deserves. It seems like a splashable Damnation for 3 mana and has an ok chance of seeing play. Anyway, just my 2 cents, but I have been surprised this card is not being discussed anywhere.
I think I'd like it a lot more if it were instant speed. I think it would kind of suck if you cast this during your turn, payed a good chunk of life to wipe the board, then watch as everyone around the table simply re-casts their general or drops some big hasty bomb on you or casts a mass-reanimation spell. I suppose it's nice for wiping out early utility stuff.
I think I'd like it a lot more if it were instant speed. I think it would kind of suck if you cast this during your turn, payed a good chunk of life to wipe the board, then watch as everyone around the table simply re-casts their general or drops some big hasty bomb on you or casts a mass-reanimation spell. I suppose it's nice for wiping out early utility stuff.
I'm pretty sure that making it instant speed would be too powerful. This card is a sweeper effect, and as far as I know, there are no sweepers that go off at instant speed (if I'm forgetting something, please tell me, but I can't think of any instant-speed kill everything spell). In terms of the ability itself, it has very high potential as a kill-all; the card is basically a conditionally-better version of Mutilate at a lower, more-easily splashable cost. From my personal experience, most Commander creatures cap out at 7-9/7-9, with the exception of infinite +1/+1 counter combos; because of this, this card does not require too much life to kill the whole board. 7-9 is a lot, but it is manageable because of starting at 40 life. Also, not sure about your group, but most people in mine either go for combo-win (so life doesn't matter) or general damage (so only the first 21 matters), so sweeping the other stuff usually isn't a huge problem. The conditionally-better part comes because of timing: most creature decks get out the big-hitters between turn 6-8, and Mutilate often doesn't get big enough to hit those guys until 8-10, since you need actual swamps for it, and that's hard in Commander. Paying life seems to make this both quicker and easier to hit with than Mutilate. That said, I don't know how much play Mutilate sees in Commander, so better than Mutilate might not mean much. Still, I stand by my opinion that making it an instant would make it far too powerful. This card is potentially stronger than DoJ/***, because -X/-X gets around indestructibility.
In terms of this card's power in Legacy, I don't play that format, so I'm not sure. Still, if my idea of Legacy is correct, and combo is a strong part of a winning Legacy deck, then this could be a good counter to a combo based on hitting a really big creature early (such as Oath of Druids-Emrakul.dec). Obviously, if I have the completely wrong idea about Legacy, then ignore this part.
I think I'd like it a lot more if it were instant speed. I think it would kind of suck if you cast this during your turn, payed a good chunk of life to wipe the board, then watch as everyone around the table simply re-casts their general or drops some big hasty bomb on you or casts a mass-reanimation spell. I suppose it's nice for wiping out early utility stuff.
A.) This card is worth discussion for eternal, as it manages to be a 1-3rd turn wipe in that format(this could be cast on the first turn with a dark ritual), and isn't necessarily much worse late game in the right deck.
B.) I think this is a fine sweep since it gets rid of generals that are hard to kill without taking general damage. Sure, you have to spend some life, but living is far more important, and if your opponent just drops "hasty beaters" nothing would have saved you. It's not being played in a void, imaging this in a well built Trololoro deck.
This card is a sweeper effect, and as far as I know, there are no sweepers that go off at instant speed (if I'm forgetting something, please tell me, but I can't think of any instant-speed kill everything spell).
Rout and Tsabo's Decree. But one costs seven to cast as a instant and the other is purely situational.
Rout can be used at instant speed. If you are not counting permanents like oblivion stone that can activate at instant speed, then I believe this is the only instant speed sweeper other than volcanic fallout, which rarely gets the job done in EDH.
Consume the Meek is a great instant sweeper that always gets rid of those pesky token hoards.
I think I'd like it a lot more if it were instant speed. I think it would kind of suck if you cast this during your turn, payed a good chunk of life to wipe the board, then watch as everyone around the table simply re-casts their general or drops some big hasty bomb on you or casts a mass-reanimation spell. I suppose it's nice for wiping out early utility stuff.
I'm sorry, a splashable 3 CMC sweeper isn't strong enough for you?
A.) This card is worth discussion for eternal, as it manages to be a 1-3rd turn wipe in that format(this could be cast on the first turn with a dark ritual), and isn't necessarily much worse late game in the right deck.
I don't know enough about Eternal Formats to speak on the matter. I'm a Commander player so I don't care about whether a card is Eternal playable or not. My opinion is based on whether or not I would play this card in one of my EDH decks, and for now, I think the answer is no.
and if your opponent just drops "hasty beaters" nothing would have saved you. It's not being played in a void, imaging this in a well built Trololoro deck.
Not necessarily. If I cast this for 6-8 to remove some bomb cards, then my opponent just drops another huge bomb, slaps Greaves on it and venge-attacks me, then I'm down a ton of life, possibly dead. If I'd have just waited that extra turn for Damnation, maybe I'd be down the same amount, maybe not. Maybe my opponents would have attacked me, maybe they would have left me alone. Personally, it's not a chance I'd take. Seeing someone drop their life total by a good chunk and then leave themselves wide open is often a great incentive for everyone around the table to take you out, especially if you just wiped their board clean.
That's my reasoning for not liking the card, anyway.
I'm sorry, a splashable 3 CMC sweeper isn't strong enough for you?
Not at all, no. Maybe for some people, but for me, this kind of card gets you killed faster because the people I know enjoy targeting the player with the lowest life total. I wouldn't want to cast this, pay life, potentially having it countered, and then leave myself wide open after just paying a chunk of life.
Personally I'd much rather liked it as a X2B and had it say: You can pay life to reduce the cost (of X if deemed otherwise too powerful) - same effect but additional mana can save your life.
Basically Killing Wave is supposedly better for EDH, or perhaps I don't know enough of the constructed format that you may need a larger sweeper at turn 3 already.
For EDH:
This is a SUPER good card in "competitive" 1v1 edh. The format is full of tempo and this card is a really strong black sweeper that comes down a turn earlier. Will see tons of play in Bx french control lists.
for multiplayer "Casual" edh, this is probably worse than damnation but still very playable if you're looking for a 2nd or 3rd sweeper. It's also nice if you're running a 3 or 5 color list and want something splashable that can wipe the board.
For Legacy:
This is where I'm not sure, it seems on par with the required power level, and a strong way of combating all the midrange decks. The one issue is that you get blown up fairly hard by a counterspell (due to the life being an "additional cost"). That being said, this is still a 3cc sweeper (aka gets under Teeg) and might see play.
In EDH, this is basically a Black Sun's Zenith that requires life instead of mana. It'll help you deal with decks that power out a few big threats early on, especially if they're indestructible.
It ranks, to me, below Damnation in power level, but above the aformentioned Zenith. 2nd best Black Sweeper isn't exactly a bad thing in my book.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I don't know enough about Eternal Formats to speak on the matter. I'm a Commander player so I don't care about whether a card is Eternal playable or not. My opinion is based on whether or not I would play this card in one of my EDH decks, and for now, I think the answer is no.
Not necessarily. If I cast this for 6-8 to remove some bomb cards, then my opponent just drops another huge bomb, slaps Greaves on it and venge-attacks me, then I'm down a ton of life, possibly dead. If I'd have just waited that extra turn for Damnation, maybe I'd be down the same amount, maybe not. Maybe my opponents would have attacked me, maybe they would have left me alone. Personally, it's not a chance I'd take. Seeing someone drop their life total by a good chunk and then leave themselves wide open is often a great incentive for everyone around the table to take you out, especially if you just wiped their board clean.
That's my reasoning for not liking the card, anyway.
Not at all, no. Maybe for some people, but for me, this kind of card gets you killed faster because the people I know enjoy targeting the player with the lowest life total. I wouldn't want to cast this, pay life, potentially having it countered, and then leave myself wide open after just paying a chunk of life.
I guess you didn't notice that this is in the Oloro deck...
Still one of the best sweepers in EDH, by far. Maybe you'll change your mind the first several times someone wipes your board.
It has obvious strengths and obvious weaknesses. If we keep trolling Gatherer for more and more creative wordings, I'm sure we would find all sorts of "Instant Speed Wraths" in the Tap abilities of artifacts and creatures, in addition to the spells that have been named.
But this card is definitely the fastest, broadest, splashable answer of this type of card. It would not be too powerful at Instant Speed in Legacy, you would just stop arguing about it. When cards have such obvious downsides, the correct assumption to make is usually 'cost is real, means something strategically, but worth it.'
drawbacks on a card like this don't mean you don't put it in your deck- they mean that your deck will be shaped by your putting it in.
I am probably every color-combination it is possible to be, though it's really hard to figure out what it would mean to be 4-colored....it doesn't seem logical to be 4-colored without being 5-colored.
It's a good card. 5 life to wipe a board is no joke, and under MOST circumstances you're not gonna see a lot of 6+ toughness guys unless it's like a Mayael deck or something.
In an eternal format this seems like it's a thing that exist.
This card seems amazing to me, and I agree I feel it should be getting a little more notice. The big question will be whether it has a place in Legacy. It's even splashable, making it a 3 mana wrath that kills regenerators and indestructible creatures.
This card seems amazing to me, and I agree I feel it should be getting a little more notice. The big question will be whether it has a place in Legacy. It's even splashable, making it a 3 mana wrath that kills regenerators and indestructible creatures.
If this was legal in modern it would be insane.
I'm starting to wonder if they aren't testing the water with these cards, seeing how they play, and then deciding if they are viable for Standard/Modern or not. Take Flusterstorm and Scavenging Ooze. They decided that Ooze was just find for Standard/Modern, but Flusterstorm still doesn't have a place.
Maybe in a latter set, we can expect Sudden Demise, but not Toxic Deluge. Who knows.
I'm starting to wonder if they aren't testing the water with these cards, seeing how they play, and then deciding if they are viable for Standard/Modern or not. Take Flusterstorm and Scavenging Ooze. They decided that Ooze was just find for Standard/Modern, but Flusterstorm still doesn't have a place.
Maybe in a latter set, we can expect Sudden Demise, but not Toxic Deluge. Who knows.
The day that Flusterstorm enters Standard/Modern is the day that Storm is used in a new block. I think Wizards is too cautious to put Storm in another block (the last time that happened, Empty the Warrens was born and got banned from Pauper).
Such a shame--Flusterstorm is one of the most balanced Storm cards (probably because it's reactive).
Baleful Strix will also likely only be reprinted when Wizards returns to multicoloured, non-enchantment artifacts again (and after two sets with colored artifacts, I think Wizards is still taking a long break).
And Shardless Agent will only be reprinted in the Return to Cascade block (and given Cascade's abusive power, I don't think that block will ever be made).
Wizards may have tested the other exclusives in Standard/Modern contexts (as long as they don't come with keyword/multicolour baggage). Maybe Acorn Catapult will fill in a jank slot in a core set near us!
The day that Flusterstorm enters Standard/Modern is the day that Storm is used in a new block. I think Wizards is too cautious to put Storm in another block (the last time that happened, Empty the Warrens was born and got banned from Pauper).
Such a shame--Flusterstorm is one of the most balanced Storm cards (probably because it's reactive).
Baleful Strix will also likely only be reprinted when Wizards returns to multicoloured, non-enchantment artifacts again (and after two sets with colored artifacts, I think Wizards is still taking a long break).
And Shardless Agent will only be reprinted in the Return to Cascade block (and given Cascade's abusive power, I don't think that block will ever be made).
Wizards may have tested the other exclusives in Standard/Modern contexts (as long as they don't come with keyword/multicolour baggage). Maybe Acorn Catapult will fill in a jank slot in a core set near us!
I think we're more likely to see beavers before we see the return of squirrels.
Sorcery Rare
As an additional cost to cast Toxic Deluge, pay X life.
All creatures get -X/-X until end of turn.
I feel as though this card is not getting the credit it deserves. It seems like a splashable Damnation for 3 mana and has an ok chance of seeing play. Anyway, just my 2 cents, but I have been surprised this card is not being discussed anywhere.
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
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I'm pretty sure that making it instant speed would be too powerful. This card is a sweeper effect, and as far as I know, there are no sweepers that go off at instant speed (if I'm forgetting something, please tell me, but I can't think of any instant-speed kill everything spell). In terms of the ability itself, it has very high potential as a kill-all; the card is basically a conditionally-better version of Mutilate at a lower, more-easily splashable cost. From my personal experience, most Commander creatures cap out at 7-9/7-9, with the exception of infinite +1/+1 counter combos; because of this, this card does not require too much life to kill the whole board. 7-9 is a lot, but it is manageable because of starting at 40 life. Also, not sure about your group, but most people in mine either go for combo-win (so life doesn't matter) or general damage (so only the first 21 matters), so sweeping the other stuff usually isn't a huge problem. The conditionally-better part comes because of timing: most creature decks get out the big-hitters between turn 6-8, and Mutilate often doesn't get big enough to hit those guys until 8-10, since you need actual swamps for it, and that's hard in Commander. Paying life seems to make this both quicker and easier to hit with than Mutilate. That said, I don't know how much play Mutilate sees in Commander, so better than Mutilate might not mean much. Still, I stand by my opinion that making it an instant would make it far too powerful. This card is potentially stronger than DoJ/***, because -X/-X gets around indestructibility.
In terms of this card's power in Legacy, I don't play that format, so I'm not sure. Still, if my idea of Legacy is correct, and combo is a strong part of a winning Legacy deck, then this could be a good counter to a combo based on hitting a really big creature early (such as Oath of Druids-Emrakul.dec). Obviously, if I have the completely wrong idea about Legacy, then ignore this part.
A.) This card is worth discussion for eternal, as it manages to be a 1-3rd turn wipe in that format(this could be cast on the first turn with a dark ritual), and isn't necessarily much worse late game in the right deck.
B.) I think this is a fine sweep since it gets rid of generals that are hard to kill without taking general damage. Sure, you have to spend some life, but living is far more important, and if your opponent just drops "hasty beaters" nothing would have saved you. It's not being played in a void, imaging this in a well built Trololoro deck.
Rout and Tsabo's Decree. But one costs seven to cast as a instant and the other is purely situational.
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:symu::symb::symr: Grixis Control :symu::symb::symr:
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Consume the Meek is a great instant sweeper that always gets rid of those pesky token hoards.
I'm sorry, a splashable 3 CMC sweeper isn't strong enough for you?
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I don't know enough about Eternal Formats to speak on the matter. I'm a Commander player so I don't care about whether a card is Eternal playable or not. My opinion is based on whether or not I would play this card in one of my EDH decks, and for now, I think the answer is no.
Not necessarily. If I cast this for 6-8 to remove some bomb cards, then my opponent just drops another huge bomb, slaps Greaves on it and venge-attacks me, then I'm down a ton of life, possibly dead. If I'd have just waited that extra turn for Damnation, maybe I'd be down the same amount, maybe not. Maybe my opponents would have attacked me, maybe they would have left me alone. Personally, it's not a chance I'd take. Seeing someone drop their life total by a good chunk and then leave themselves wide open is often a great incentive for everyone around the table to take you out, especially if you just wiped their board clean.
That's my reasoning for not liking the card, anyway.
Not at all, no. Maybe for some people, but for me, this kind of card gets you killed faster because the people I know enjoy targeting the player with the lowest life total. I wouldn't want to cast this, pay life, potentially having it countered, and then leave myself wide open after just paying a chunk of life.
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Basically Killing Wave is supposedly better for EDH, or perhaps I don't know enough of the constructed format that you may need a larger sweeper at turn 3 already.
This is a SUPER good card in "competitive" 1v1 edh. The format is full of tempo and this card is a really strong black sweeper that comes down a turn earlier. Will see tons of play in Bx french control lists.
for multiplayer "Casual" edh, this is probably worse than damnation but still very playable if you're looking for a 2nd or 3rd sweeper. It's also nice if you're running a 3 or 5 color list and want something splashable that can wipe the board.
For Legacy:
This is where I'm not sure, it seems on par with the required power level, and a strong way of combating all the midrange decks. The one issue is that you get blown up fairly hard by a counterspell (due to the life being an "additional cost"). That being said, this is still a 3cc sweeper (aka gets under Teeg) and might see play.
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
My cube thread!
It ranks, to me, below Damnation in power level, but above the aformentioned Zenith. 2nd best Black Sweeper isn't exactly a bad thing in my book.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I guess you didn't notice that this is in the Oloro deck...
Still one of the best sweepers in EDH, by far. Maybe you'll change your mind the first several times someone wipes your board.
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#DefundThePolice
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
3 mana and some life to wipe the board clean. It even hits the things too big to die to infest.
The only downside is the life loss. Which IMO is worth it even in other formats, but that's nearly no downside at all in EDH.
But this card is definitely the fastest, broadest, splashable answer of this type of card. It would not be too powerful at Instant Speed in Legacy, you would just stop arguing about it. When cards have such obvious downsides, the correct assumption to make is usually 'cost is real, means something strategically, but worth it.'
drawbacks on a card like this don't mean you don't put it in your deck- they mean that your deck will be shaped by your putting it in.
People need to read this fanfiction, though:
www.hpmor.com
I am probably every color-combination it is possible to be, though it's really hard to figure out what it would mean to be 4-colored....it doesn't seem logical to be 4-colored without being 5-colored.
In an eternal format this seems like it's a thing that exist.
:symr::symb: I hate your deck(Kaervek the Merciless)
Wait, how do I even hide it as a name title?
Kemba, Kostume
Ka...Oh god that's not a good alliteration.Wait, how do I even hide it as a name title?
If this was legal in modern it would be insane.
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I'm starting to wonder if they aren't testing the water with these cards, seeing how they play, and then deciding if they are viable for Standard/Modern or not. Take Flusterstorm and Scavenging Ooze. They decided that Ooze was just find for Standard/Modern, but Flusterstorm still doesn't have a place.
Maybe in a latter set, we can expect Sudden Demise, but not Toxic Deluge. Who knows.
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The day that Flusterstorm enters Standard/Modern is the day that Storm is used in a new block. I think Wizards is too cautious to put Storm in another block (the last time that happened, Empty the Warrens was born and got banned from Pauper).
Such a shame--Flusterstorm is one of the most balanced Storm cards (probably because it's reactive).
Baleful Strix will also likely only be reprinted when Wizards returns to multicoloured, non-enchantment artifacts again (and after two sets with colored artifacts, I think Wizards is still taking a long break).
And Shardless Agent will only be reprinted in the Return to Cascade block (and given Cascade's abusive power, I don't think that block will ever be made).
Wizards may have tested the other exclusives in Standard/Modern contexts (as long as they don't come with keyword/multicolour baggage). Maybe Acorn Catapult will fill in a jank slot in a core set near us!
I think we're more likely to see beavers before we see the return of squirrels.
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#DefundThePolice
You have a bias on that opinion Mr. Beaver.
Either way, I'll continue to ignore the existence of Acorn Catapult as a card.
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Very, very black.... ahaha
sacrifice yourself just enough to left your Phyrexian Obliterator alive but kill everything else.
seems pretty legit for me.
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#DefundThePolice