Masters of Waves, feels a little underwhelming as a mythic, by itself.
What does the community think of it?
I hope we'll see a few elementals at UU, 1UU, UUU, 1UUU, 2UU, and/or 2UUU (over the course of all 3 sets, of course) so a solid blue elemental deck can be thrown together.
I just looked up on the Gatherer & saw there only a few select elementals that have a combined cost of 5 or less that have 2 or more U in there cost is slim. The deck would be way too slow of it were filled w/ 4, 5, & 6 casting cost elementals.
It puts 4 power worth of creatures onto the battlefield by itself, and any more (highly likely) is extremely far above the curve from what blue usually gets. Who needs other elementals when he's a one-card army? Note how absurd he gets in multiples as well. Given that Bonfire is rotating, I think this and Thassa will encourage the formation of a blue tempo deck in standard, and potentially break into other formats.
Also, the flavor is sweet. He raises an army of waves, which break when he isn't around to hold them up any longer.
I really love this guy but I must admit that I was a bit underwhelmed about the post rotation deck choices for blue permaments. I really want to play the heck out of this guy. I just hope we get a lot more decent blue creatures so this guy can be a real threat.
It puts 4 power worth of creatures onto the battlefield by itself, and any more (highly likely) is extremely far above the curve from what blue usually gets.
To get a 4/3 elemental, one would need all 4 on the board, alive... and at that point, it's good game.
Also, elementals in the above mentioned costs would be a way to effectively get out an army of animated waves quickly.
To get a 4/3 elemental, one would need all 4 on the board, alive... and at that point, it's good game.
Also, elementals in the above mentioned costs would be a way to effectively get out an army of animated waves quickly.
True, But who needs 4/3 elementals. Ten 2/1 elementals would do fine. For example here's a hypothetical curve.
t1 cloudfin
t2 frostburn weird/tidebinder mage
t3 nightviel spector
t4 this guy
You now have two 2/3 fliers, a two drop and seven 2/1 creatures. Total power on board is 20. With only 4 cards. That's exceptional.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
But Mimic pretty much makes anything that's good better anyway.
Perhaps MoW heralds more U-dense Elementals, but why not simply use it as a finisher in a mono-U Merfolk deck? Merfolks include those that can make MoW more durable while increasing devotion counts, as they tend to be quite cheap and U-dense.
No need to build an Elemental deck, even if it's an Elemental Lord. That's simply too many eggs in one fragile basket.
I found a few good current elementals that are of hybrid mana: Crackleburr & Plumeveil...
Splash red and a few other good R/U cards, a fun elemental deck can come around.
Not to say that it's not possible, just that he's good on his own just being in an aggressive deck. Getting tokens is more important than giving subpar creatures bonuses, was more my point. Getting a 1/2 token is better than giving a creture +1/+1 most of the time.
Nightveil Specter pairs really well with him. I expect, if devotion is actually a thing, all the guys in that cycle will get better.
You get 4 1/2 tokens with those 2.
Add Cloudfin Raptor and maybe Tidebinder Mage (probably replaced by any decent 2 drop in Theros) and he can make 5-6 tokens no sweat.
I think when it's cards like this that are just good on their own, will be the good devotion cards, not the one thats like "if you have devotion 5 this creature does something, but without it, it's useless"
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Standard:
Bident Layers B Devotion RG Devotion UW Control Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod Legacy: DeathBlade RUG Delver BUG Control
This guy in modern Merfolk running Grand Architect should beat face pretty hard. Very likely Master of Waves will hit the board as a 4/3 and his Elementals as 3/2s. Feel like if you land him you're getting upwards of 10 power on the board most every time. If you can get Architect out first, then it's game over.
I like him a lot, and am going to be looking at running him along with Thassa in Standard. If that doesn't pan out, then Modern Merfolk it is.
Not to say that it's not possible, just that he's good on his own just being in an aggressive deck. Getting tokens is more important than giving subpar creatures bonuses, was more my point. Getting a 1/2 token is better than giving a creture +1/+1 most of the time.
MoV tokens are 1/0 Elementals, and MoV confers +1/+1 to each Elemental you control. Thus, the tokens are, with one MoV in play, 2/1, not 1/2.
Which makes it great when MoV dies.
But I fully agree on the fact that tokens are more important than conferring +1/+1 to Elementals, which should stand as a coherent, solid deck without MoV.
I think when it's cards like this that are just good on their own, will be the good devotion cards, not the one thats like "if you have devotion 5 this creature does something, but without it, it's useless"
Another card that creates Elementals with ease is Young Pyromancer. So why not have it along with the MoW in a U/R tempo deck? Doesn't sound like Tier 1 but it should be fun, at least!
Interesting, but Young Pyromancer encourages you to play with instants and sorceries and the Master encourages you to field a battlefield chock-a-block with U symbols. The synergy between Elemental tokens from the Pyromancer and the Master does not outweigh the anti-synergy of packing your deck with U-dense permanents and spells.
Sure, a UR tempo with both could work, but that's an unusual use for what is going to be a card with a rocket secondary market price.
This guy in modern Merfolk running Grand Architect should beat face pretty hard. Very likely Master of Waves will hit the board as a 4/3 and his Elementals as 3/2s. Feel like if you land him you're getting upwards of 10 power on the board most every time. If you can get Architect out first, then it's game over.
I like him a lot, and am going to be looking at running him along with Thassa in Standard. If that doesn't pan out, then Modern Merfolk it is.
I feel like this is something I might be willing to build. Check that, I had bult something similar, but this would allow me to go in a whole new direction. Just throw in some cards that can eat up extra artifact mana, throw in some swords, and throw in some small blue dudes. Afte that, just go to town. The main problem you would have is that your field still dies to wrath effects and is still dependent on drawing GA.
Other than that interaction, I'm not really warming up to this guy. I feel like he's amazing if he sticks in the right deck, but he's terrible if he dies. I guess getting 4+ power for 4 is the proper way to look at it, but I'm not sure I would want to tap out for him if I was a tempo deck, because he is best i I always tap out. And blue isn't known as being a great aggro color.
Does Legacy merfolk still pack some number of Wake Thrashers? Because this guy seems better to me. You still lose everything if your opponent can answer a 1 toughness creature, but it has pro red and is a bunch of dudes instead of one big dude. Granted, this guy costs 1 mana more, but neither of the cards should be run as a 4 of anyhow, so...
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T2 Maybe tidebinder mage, but hopefully we get something else at UU that is maindeckable.
T3 Thassa
T4 Master of Waves, make 3 elementals, activate Thassa if you have an UU 2 drop.
You mean 5 elementals?
I think he's great! Not so good in a vacuum, but with some tricks and clever deckbuilding he might see constructed play.
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What does the community think of it?
I hope we'll see a few elementals at UU, 1UU, UUU, 1UUU, 2UU, and/or 2UUU (over the course of all 3 sets, of course) so a solid blue elemental deck can be thrown together.
I just looked up on the Gatherer & saw there only a few select elementals that have a combined cost of 5 or less that have 2 or more U in there cost is slim. The deck would be way too slow of it were filled w/ 4, 5, & 6 casting cost elementals.
Also, the flavor is sweet. He raises an army of waves, which break when he isn't around to hold them up any longer.
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To get a 4/3 elemental, one would need all 4 on the board, alive... and at that point, it's good game.
Also, elementals in the above mentioned costs would be a way to effectively get out an army of animated waves quickly.
I think he means the master and elemental are 4 power worth of creatures by themselves.
True, But who needs 4/3 elementals. Ten 2/1 elementals would do fine. For example here's a hypothetical curve.
t1 cloudfin
t2 frostburn weird/tidebinder mage
t3 nightviel spector
t4 this guy
You now have two 2/3 fliers, a two drop and seven 2/1 creatures. Total power on board is 20. With only 4 cards. That's exceptional.
- Manite
This is getting pretty ridiculous.
WUControlWU
Commander (EDH)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR
WRGMayael the AnimaWRG
It's more of a Cloudgoat Ranger than a build around me.
getting more tokens is more important than the other creatures being elementals.
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
Now that is an awesome combo in itself, even if the devotion on board is only 2 or 3. Great find!
Oh, I'm gonna build around this guy for sure...
I found a few good current elementals that are of hybrid mana: Crackleburr & Plumeveil...
Splash red and a few other good R/U cards, a fun elemental deck can come around.
But Mimic pretty much makes anything that's good better anyway.
Perhaps MoW heralds more U-dense Elementals, but why not simply use it as a finisher in a mono-U Merfolk deck? Merfolks include those that can make MoW more durable while increasing devotion counts, as they tend to be quite cheap and U-dense.
No need to build an Elemental deck, even if it's an Elemental Lord. That's simply too many eggs in one fragile basket.
Not to say that it's not possible, just that he's good on his own just being in an aggressive deck. Getting tokens is more important than giving subpar creatures bonuses, was more my point. Getting a 1/2 token is better than giving a creture +1/+1 most of the time.
Nightveil Specter pairs really well with him. I expect, if devotion is actually a thing, all the guys in that cycle will get better.
You get 4 1/2 tokens with those 2.
Add Cloudfin Raptor and maybe Tidebinder Mage (probably replaced by any decent 2 drop in Theros) and he can make 5-6 tokens no sweat.
I think when it's cards like this that are just good on their own, will be the good devotion cards, not the one thats like "if you have devotion 5 this creature does something, but without it, it's useless"
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
I like him a lot, and am going to be looking at running him along with Thassa in Standard. If that doesn't pan out, then Modern Merfolk it is.
Which makes it great when MoV dies.
But I fully agree on the fact that tokens are more important than conferring +1/+1 to Elementals, which should stand as a coherent, solid deck without MoV.
What?
Interesting, but Young Pyromancer encourages you to play with instants and sorceries and the Master encourages you to field a battlefield chock-a-block with U symbols. The synergy between Elemental tokens from the Pyromancer and the Master does not outweigh the anti-synergy of packing your deck with U-dense permanents and spells.
Sure, a UR tempo with both could work, but that's an unusual use for what is going to be a card with a rocket secondary market price.
I feel like this is something I might be willing to build. Check that, I had bult something similar, but this would allow me to go in a whole new direction. Just throw in some cards that can eat up extra artifact mana, throw in some swords, and throw in some small blue dudes. Afte that, just go to town. The main problem you would have is that your field still dies to wrath effects and is still dependent on drawing GA.
Other than that interaction, I'm not really warming up to this guy. I feel like he's amazing if he sticks in the right deck, but he's terrible if he dies. I guess getting 4+ power for 4 is the proper way to look at it, but I'm not sure I would want to tap out for him if I was a tempo deck, because he is best i I always tap out. And blue isn't known as being a great aggro color.
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Nivmagus Elemental
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You mean 5 elementals?
I think he's great! Not so good in a vacuum, but with some tricks and clever deckbuilding he might see constructed play.