Tempt with Glory
5w
Sorcery Rare
Tempting offer — Put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control. Each opponent may put a +1/+1 counter on each creature he or she controls. For each opponent who does, put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control.
Tempt with Reflections
3u
Sorcery Rare
Tempting offer — Choose target creature you control. Put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of that creature. Each opponent may put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of that creature. For each opponent who does, put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of that creature.
Tempt with Immortality
4b
Sorcery Rare
Tempting offer — Return a creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield. Each opponent may return a creature card from his or her graveyard to the battlefield. For each player who does, return a creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Tempt with Vengeance
xr
Sorcery Rare
Tempting offer — Put X 1/1 red Elemental creature tokens with haste onto the battlefield. Each opponent may put X 1/1 red Elemental creature tokens with haste onto the battlefield. For each player who does, put X 1/1 red Elemental creature tokens with haste onto the battlefield.
Tempt with Discovery
3g
Sorcery Rare
Tempting offer — Search your library for a land card and put it onto the battlefield. Each opponent may search his or her library for a land card and put it onto the battlefield. For each opponent who searches a library this way, search your library for a land card and put it onto the battlefield. Then each player who searched a library this way shuffles it.
None of them really seem all that great, and I don't like the name "Tempting Offer" but that is fine. I love the cards, just because they seem like they will be so much fun to play. They might be overpriced and rather weak effects, possibly give your opponent the win, or give you tons of value. Overall seems like a fun cycle and each card will probably find its place, (maybe not green and white outside of fringe play) and will be a blast to resolve and to play against.
A lot of the time they will just be mediocre abilities with a high CMC. Occasionally, however, an opponent who either isn't a good player or sees a way that taking the offer could be a path to victory, you will get some cool card advantage in a way if you know how to abuse it. Maybe the opponents path to victory isn't quite as good as the one you see in your hand right now.
Overall seem like risky cards, but likable cards in the sense that they truly are oozing with commander capabilities.
I like them. Especially the green one. I think there's a very good chance of grabbing extra lands off it. Everyone likes having more mana to work with and if someone feels a bit behind, or is a bit mana screwed, a free land is pretty tempting.
I like them on base of goofy commander. Practically they are not worth it as any sensible Magic Player wouldn't take the offer unless it directly hands them a chance to win.
I think the Black one is the best, mostly because it can be played as a political card. For other players it's especially juicy as the first player to accept a creature will give the caster the most value while the last gives the least.
Aka being the first player to be asked to reanimate or not is in the hardest position as he can either take the offer and all behind him can do the same more or less "for free" as the caster has already gained his two highest priority targets from his Graveyard and the accepting player got his top priority, why shouldn't the rest allow the caster to pull those small critters out of the gutter while they restock with their most powerful creature in the yard.
If you however pass the offer the next player may reanimate a win-con (like Bant reanimating Karmic Guide to go recurring loop with Blinker-Roon) and you'll be left out.
None of the others have a similar feel of diminishing return and all pretty much says: "Nah, don't give the caster this much value".
White: Counters => Only people interested: Bant or Jund.
Blue: Token-copy of singular creep => interested: Naya (played in Grixis Deck which is a control-shell. Uhh why would you give Naya something worthwhile? Had it been any creature it would have made a lot of sense)
Green: Land ramp => interested: None (as none would provide Naya with Ramp so they get to start working)
Red: Mass tokens => interested: Bant for an Alpha Strike (why would Jund play it if Bant was in a position to do something like this, unless they have an answer or can kill Bant-player straight out - in which case Bant wont accept it. Poor choices)
Overall it seems like the Tempting Offer is a bad template as it would seem only players poor at evaluating gains versus costs would really consider taking the offers - or players who plays for the lulz, aka chaos-players.
Another chance will be those play-groups who all accepts the offer and gangs up on the caster to even out that the caster got a vast bonus.
I liked the old Commander's "equal share"-theme but with the twist that the caster would usually benefit the most from it but with no certainty.
Some of the cards were rather poorly made though and the Join Forces mechanic shouldn't start with the caster as the case usually was that players would put all evaluation whether they should post mana into it or not, on the caster's own contribution.
For instance if we were to draw cards and the Caster put in no mana, the rest of the board paid zero mana and he would have wasted a card and a mana. Did he post some mana into it the contribution was easier persuaded for the others but often mana was kept back to hold on to instant-cast options or the bluff hereof.
The black milling was a total disaster as none were interested in milling their decks.
The white token generator was limited as none would post mana into it if Counterpunch could actually use the tokens well with a Sigil Captain and then it just turned into an expensive token-generator spell.
The Red dragon was always interesting but nonetheless seldom used on Pump.
The Green one was an ace as it kicked the game on and all were interested in posting as much mana as affordable into it.
The fact that Political Puppets didn't get one was absurd and in my eyes looks like a mistake on WotC's side.
I might be missing something here. Would anything be different if the card did not have "Tempting Offer" in the text box?
See: Domain, Chroma, Join Forces, &c.
I love the red one. Seems pretty hilarious---great game of chicken/who's going to murderate who with all the tokens.
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that's not what happened at all. kamahl stabbed phage, akroma, and some old lady and they became korona. then korona got stabbed by her "prophets" and kamahl got drunk with a mutant centaur
I like the design, but I wish that they had costed these more aggressively, as in their current forms most are unplayable unless you regularly play against bad players. Tempting Offer is a drawback so why not cost these as such?
because sometimes the ability can be a bonus. Not always will an opponent, even if it's a good one, will see what you are about to do. They don't necessarily see what shenanigans you have in your hand
I've had extremely limited testing of the cards but so far I cannot figure the mechanic to be good. It screams super bad for the offered player. Only Tempting with Immortality do I see as a potential "fun" political card as the graveyard is a limited resource and once one person has taken up the offer the rest might as well.
@Thoctar: What would you gain by getting a stripmine? Unless you have some kind of recurring effect for lands it seems like a trade 1 for 1, albeit you can target his most precious lands first.
I guess you can also be sure that once people have "learned their lesson" (implying this is actually a nuisance) they'll include some recurring in their deck as well - Life from the Loam as he already plays green.
All the rest deal with what you can see, this one deals with the potential that you can't see. Every time this has been used its only fueled other player's combos searching for thier best lands.
@Thoctar: What would you gain by getting a stripmine? Unless you have some kind of recurring effect for lands it seems like a trade 1 for 1, albeit you can target his most precious lands first.
I guess you can also be sure that once people have "learned their lesson" (implying this is actually a nuisance) they'll include some recurring in their deck as well - Life from the Loam as he already plays green.
You get strip mine because he is playing the card in order to get a better land than you; or anyone who is taking up the offer is. If you are just ramping you don't do this, But if you get your strip mine you can stop the player who is trying to get their Shrine to Nix, Cabal Coffers, and Gaia's Cradle. If the person who played it, is getting their one super important land, you getting a strip mine, and them getting a basic or colors they already had you win because they just played an expensive rampant growth.
Under normal circumstances they always cast an expensive Rampant Growth. I'd never take the offer - your situation might change my mind in non-precon decks but then again I might just get fooled if he sits with a recurring effect so I essentially provided him with an additional mana that might be as crucial to him when I'm getting my Stripmine - presuming I have one xD.
I don't find it foolproof at all to merely pick up Stripmine.
I think this mechanic is designed pretty well. If the user is up, the the others will not take the offer. If the user is down, it may do well to throw him or her a bone to make a friend, and get a little bonus of your own.
Also, in a 3+ player game, it is impossible for everyone to choose at once to accept or decline unless they write it on a piece of paper or something, then reveal it. I mean, I might take the offer if I know someone else is NOT taking it, but it can't work this way, right?
However if your playgroup is rational they would never take the offer and the effect itself is often bit cost effective compared to what you could have done instead.
My views:
Overall mechanic: Seemed promising but design failed to make it truly interesting. Join Forces was a better mechanic IMO and that was still poorly received.
Black: First spoiled and interesting interaction as it deals with a limited visible resource. The more who accepts the offer the less value you get from it. It becomes a game of "Who goes first and the ones who skips will miss out if the later will accept?" - wonderful mind game.
Rest: None of these are truly interesting and most of the decks are not interested in giving the user additional gain from it.
- Green: Interested in aiding the mana ramp for that big beastie Naya deck?
- White: Interested in making Bant's rambling band of crappy units pretty tough and durable while packing a mean punch?
- Blue: Interested in mass-copying that single chosen creature from the Grixis deck, which is mostly utility-creeps?
- Red: Interested in mass-producing tokens for that player whose commander can sacrifice to deal additional combat commander damage or make the rest of us sacrifice creatures?
The problem I have is the design mostly based on people not capable of evaluating the situation. Hence the lack of understanding is the main driving force and IMO that's not an interesting background for the design.
If we take Join Forces we had more reason to pool resources (especially since all players gets an equal share): Green: All decks were around the same pace and all could use lands. Most were interested in dumping in a few manas.
Blue: All decks could use cards, so unless the game was at a point where the player was winning they'd usually dump in some manas to get closer to their ideal set-up. It was more or less a gamble and to get the game beyond a stalling point.
Those two were the prime of the cycle as they both provides even fits for all decks and all are interested.
Now we get down to less well placed effects.
White: Not all decks were keen on giving Token-swarmer an even larger army, especially if he had Attrition or Sigil Captain on board. Sometimes others were interested to gain a sum of blockers to deal with especially GUB's large creeps like Mortivore.
Red: The weirdest of the cycle, especially since it was on a permanent. Both a political and strong beater in one, I guess there was a reason why certain decks in the cycle just went "Yea, you see this removal? Yup, dragon go away." Overall didn't like the idea of it anyhow.
These are a little more niche-applied and not overall golden uses. You have to pick your moments well.
Black: Gets shafted with the effect none were interested in. The GUB-player tried to convince the BGW-player that with Karador's ability to cast creatures from the graveyard it was a good investment.
However considering BGW's dire need for open mana and the unwillingness to potentially drop out some of their stronger combo-cards like Attrition or Aura Shards or lovely Skullclamp he didn't succeed and always was the lone contributor to the milling.
Overall weakness of the mechanic: It starts with the caster instead of ending with him. A major flaw that caused the spells to not always wanting to be cast as if you post some mana into it, others might just accept this nice gift of free stuff without doing anything themselves.
In terms of policy you can always tap your own mana and promise "I will dump at least 5 mana into drawing X cards." You may bluff and sit with something else to cast but it demands commitment without actually binding you.
And if none else pays you can let it fizzle. Of course you used a card and 1 mana, but it didn't give your enemies free stuff and for the future your warnings might be taken seriously and people will pay 3 mana to get some cards.
Secondary weakness which seems to be shared in Tempting Offer: It seems to benefit the caster much more than the others (making the offer unattractive) - Red, White and especially Black.
Third "weakness" of Join Forces: It was not represented in all decks... Why GUB had to have two of those was a mystery and personally I think it was last minute swap between Skyscribing and Minds Aglow. Why Political Puppets (RWU) didn't have the political Join Forces-card was an odd element.
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5w
Sorcery Rare
Tempting offer — Put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control. Each opponent may put a +1/+1 counter on each creature he or she controls. For each opponent who does, put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control.
Tempt with Reflections
3u
Sorcery Rare
Tempting offer — Choose target creature you control. Put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of that creature. Each opponent may put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of that creature. For each opponent who does, put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of that creature.
Tempt with Immortality
4b
Sorcery Rare
Tempting offer — Return a creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield. Each opponent may return a creature card from his or her graveyard to the battlefield. For each player who does, return a creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Tempt with Vengeance
xr
Sorcery Rare
Tempting offer — Put X 1/1 red Elemental creature tokens with haste onto the battlefield. Each opponent may put X 1/1 red Elemental creature tokens with haste onto the battlefield. For each player who does, put X 1/1 red Elemental creature tokens with haste onto the battlefield.
Tempt with Discovery
3g
Sorcery Rare
Tempting offer — Search your library for a land card and put it onto the battlefield. Each opponent may search his or her library for a land card and put it onto the battlefield. For each opponent who searches a library this way, search your library for a land card and put it onto the battlefield. Then each player who searched a library this way shuffles it.
None of them really seem all that great, and I don't like the name "Tempting Offer" but that is fine. I love the cards, just because they seem like they will be so much fun to play. They might be overpriced and rather weak effects, possibly give your opponent the win, or give you tons of value. Overall seems like a fun cycle and each card will probably find its place, (maybe not green and white outside of fringe play) and will be a blast to resolve and to play against.
A lot of the time they will just be mediocre abilities with a high CMC. Occasionally, however, an opponent who either isn't a good player or sees a way that taking the offer could be a path to victory, you will get some cool card advantage in a way if you know how to abuse it. Maybe the opponents path to victory isn't quite as good as the one you see in your hand right now.
Overall seem like risky cards, but likable cards in the sense that they truly are oozing with commander capabilities.
I think the Black one is the best, mostly because it can be played as a political card. For other players it's especially juicy as the first player to accept a creature will give the caster the most value while the last gives the least.
Aka being the first player to be asked to reanimate or not is in the hardest position as he can either take the offer and all behind him can do the same more or less "for free" as the caster has already gained his two highest priority targets from his Graveyard and the accepting player got his top priority, why shouldn't the rest allow the caster to pull those small critters out of the gutter while they restock with their most powerful creature in the yard.
If you however pass the offer the next player may reanimate a win-con (like Bant reanimating Karmic Guide to go recurring loop with Blinker-Roon) and you'll be left out.
None of the others have a similar feel of diminishing return and all pretty much says: "Nah, don't give the caster this much value".
White: Counters => Only people interested: Bant or Jund.
Blue: Token-copy of singular creep => interested: Naya (played in Grixis Deck which is a control-shell. Uhh why would you give Naya something worthwhile? Had it been any creature it would have made a lot of sense)
Green: Land ramp => interested: None (as none would provide Naya with Ramp so they get to start working)
Red: Mass tokens => interested: Bant for an Alpha Strike (why would Jund play it if Bant was in a position to do something like this, unless they have an answer or can kill Bant-player straight out - in which case Bant wont accept it. Poor choices)
Overall it seems like the Tempting Offer is a bad template as it would seem only players poor at evaluating gains versus costs would really consider taking the offers - or players who plays for the lulz, aka chaos-players.
Another chance will be those play-groups who all accepts the offer and gangs up on the caster to even out that the caster got a vast bonus.
I liked the old Commander's "equal share"-theme but with the twist that the caster would usually benefit the most from it but with no certainty.
Some of the cards were rather poorly made though and the Join Forces mechanic shouldn't start with the caster as the case usually was that players would put all evaluation whether they should post mana into it or not, on the caster's own contribution.
For instance if we were to draw cards and the Caster put in no mana, the rest of the board paid zero mana and he would have wasted a card and a mana. Did he post some mana into it the contribution was easier persuaded for the others but often mana was kept back to hold on to instant-cast options or the bluff hereof.
The black milling was a total disaster as none were interested in milling their decks.
The white token generator was limited as none would post mana into it if Counterpunch could actually use the tokens well with a Sigil Captain and then it just turned into an expensive token-generator spell.
The Red dragon was always interesting but nonetheless seldom used on Pump.
The Green one was an ace as it kicked the game on and all were interested in posting as much mana as affordable into it.
The fact that Political Puppets didn't get one was absurd and in my eyes looks like a mistake on WotC's side.
Standard
UR Control
Modern
Merfolk
Burn
Avacyn did nothing wrong!
Purify Innistrad!
#Purge
Edric | Skithiryx | Merieke | Talrand
--------------------------
Well except for pauper EDH
Garruk's Packleader | Inkfathom Witch | Gelectrode | Sigil Captain | Glider Barin | Sludge Strider | Paragon of the Ameshsa
See: Domain, Chroma, Join Forces, &c.
I love the red one. Seems pretty hilarious---great game of chicken/who's going to murderate who with all the tokens.
All the others seems so misplaced.
We have a winner.
Level 1 Judge
I write flavor articles for RoxieCards.
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I guess you can also be sure that once people have "learned their lesson" (implying this is actually a nuisance) they'll include some recurring in their deck as well - Life from the Loam as he already plays green.
All the rest deal with what you can see, this one deals with the potential that you can't see. Every time this has been used its only fueled other player's combos searching for thier best lands.
It's Hip to be a Square
You get strip mine because he is playing the card in order to get a better land than you; or anyone who is taking up the offer is. If you are just ramping you don't do this, But if you get your strip mine you can stop the player who is trying to get their Shrine to Nix, Cabal Coffers, and Gaia's Cradle. If the person who played it, is getting their one super important land, you getting a strip mine, and them getting a basic or colors they already had you win because they just played an expensive rampant growth.
I don't find it foolproof at all to merely pick up Stripmine.
Also, in a 3+ player game, it is impossible for everyone to choose at once to accept or decline unless they write it on a piece of paper or something, then reveal it. I mean, I might take the offer if I know someone else is NOT taking it, but it can't work this way, right?
Feel free to tell me yours!
My views:
Overall mechanic: Seemed promising but design failed to make it truly interesting. Join Forces was a better mechanic IMO and that was still poorly received.
Black: First spoiled and interesting interaction as it deals with a limited visible resource. The more who accepts the offer the less value you get from it. It becomes a game of "Who goes first and the ones who skips will miss out if the later will accept?" - wonderful mind game.
Rest: None of these are truly interesting and most of the decks are not interested in giving the user additional gain from it.
- Green: Interested in aiding the mana ramp for that big beastie Naya deck?
- White: Interested in making Bant's rambling band of crappy units pretty tough and durable while packing a mean punch?
- Blue: Interested in mass-copying that single chosen creature from the Grixis deck, which is mostly utility-creeps?
- Red: Interested in mass-producing tokens for that player whose commander can sacrifice to deal additional combat commander damage or make the rest of us sacrifice creatures?
The problem I have is the design mostly based on people not capable of evaluating the situation. Hence the lack of understanding is the main driving force and IMO that's not an interesting background for the design.
If we take Join Forces we had more reason to pool resources (especially since all players gets an equal share):
Green: All decks were around the same pace and all could use lands. Most were interested in dumping in a few manas.
Blue: All decks could use cards, so unless the game was at a point where the player was winning they'd usually dump in some manas to get closer to their ideal set-up. It was more or less a gamble and to get the game beyond a stalling point.
Those two were the prime of the cycle as they both provides even fits for all decks and all are interested.
Now we get down to less well placed effects.
White: Not all decks were keen on giving Token-swarmer an even larger army, especially if he had Attrition or Sigil Captain on board. Sometimes others were interested to gain a sum of blockers to deal with especially GUB's large creeps like Mortivore.
Red: The weirdest of the cycle, especially since it was on a permanent. Both a political and strong beater in one, I guess there was a reason why certain decks in the cycle just went "Yea, you see this removal? Yup, dragon go away." Overall didn't like the idea of it anyhow.
These are a little more niche-applied and not overall golden uses. You have to pick your moments well.
Black: Gets shafted with the effect none were interested in. The GUB-player tried to convince the BGW-player that with Karador's ability to cast creatures from the graveyard it was a good investment.
However considering BGW's dire need for open mana and the unwillingness to potentially drop out some of their stronger combo-cards like Attrition or Aura Shards or lovely Skullclamp he didn't succeed and always was the lone contributor to the milling.
Overall weakness of the mechanic: It starts with the caster instead of ending with him. A major flaw that caused the spells to not always wanting to be cast as if you post some mana into it, others might just accept this nice gift of free stuff without doing anything themselves.
In terms of policy you can always tap your own mana and promise "I will dump at least 5 mana into drawing X cards." You may bluff and sit with something else to cast but it demands commitment without actually binding you.
And if none else pays you can let it fizzle. Of course you used a card and 1 mana, but it didn't give your enemies free stuff and for the future your warnings might be taken seriously and people will pay 3 mana to get some cards.
Secondary weakness which seems to be shared in Tempting Offer: It seems to benefit the caster much more than the others (making the offer unattractive) - Red, White and especially Black.
Third "weakness" of Join Forces: It was not represented in all decks... Why GUB had to have two of those was a mystery and personally I think it was last minute swap between Skyscribing and Minds Aglow. Why Political Puppets (RWU) didn't have the political Join Forces-card was an odd element.