Broken cards of Theros

  • #1
    It seems that Theros is very light in terms of broken good cards that are way too much ahead of the curve such as Thragtusk, Voice of Resurgence, Thundermaw Hellkite, Geist of Saint Traft, Kolonian Hydra or Snapcaster Mage. Lots of playable and exciting cards, but no cards truly strike me as really pushed. I'm thankful at Wizards for that. Sucks to see MtG competition just be a bunch of obviously good cards worth 10$+ a pop.

    Some cards might be really good but these don't look like the kind you play 4-of in a deck, or at least aren't 4 chase mythics:
    Thassa
    Purphoros
    Curse of the Swine
    Thoughtseize (but reprints don't really count)
    Xenagos, the Reveler

    Do you think they got the power level right this time around?
    Last edited by jonhwoods: 9/14/2013 10:47:49 PM
  • #2
    Quote from jonhwoods
    It seems that Theros is very light in terms of broken good cards that are way too much ahead of the curve such as Thragtusk, Voice of Resurgence, Thundermaw Hellkite, Geist of Saint Traft, Kolonian Hydra or Snapcaster Mage. Lots of playable and exciting cards, but no cards truly strike me as really pushed. I'm thankful at Wizards for that. Sucks to see MtG competition just be a bunch of obviously good cards worth 10$+ a pop.

    Some cards might be really good but these don't like like the kind you play 4-of in a deck, or at least aren't 4 chase mythics:
    Thassa
    Purphoros
    Curse of the Swine
    Thoughtseize (but reprints don't really count)
    Xenagos, the Reveler

    Do you think they got the power level right this time around?


    I personally really like the power level, cards like Thragtusk and Snapcaster mage aren't even that fun to play with anymore IMO and I've had my playsets since the start of last season. I really like what they did here and Im excited to play test them...

    I think some cards are really overlooked here too are (in addition to the above list, of course):
    Agent of the Fates
    Hero's downfall
    Fleecemane Lion
    Sylvan Caryatid
    Soldier of the Pantheon
    Maybe even Daxos could see some play...

    Overall I like it. Wish there was more enchantments but really think Ill enjoy this season. Can't wait till prerelease!
  • #3
    Hmm I don't really think there's specific broken cards in Theros as of now.

    The only thing I'll watch for in Theros regarding deck arch-types:

    - Heroic (White wheenie? UW/WR? UWR? - what combination will be picked up and will it be a deck at all?)
    - Blue Tempo (Some have been brewing on making Master of Waves work and Thassa by playing Judge's Familiar, Tidebinder Mage and possibly Nightveil Specter to get either online quick for a fast play. I doubt it but it's gonna be interesting to see)
    - Gruul Aggro (Midrange or Early, will Xenagos be played and how? Will the loss of Flinthoof and Hellrider make it more profitable to go midrange than early?)

    Singular cards to watch:
    - Stormbreath Dragon (well obviously will see play but how big an impact, especially at Modern)
    - Xenagos
    - Triton Fortune Seeker (will he make the cut for UW or UWR Heroic as a draw-engine?)
    - Gray Merchant of Asphodel (most likely will make a devotion-4 when dropped to shift life-balance by 8 and is a 2/4 in himself for 5 - if only Erebos had been more interesting mono-black control could have been quite possible)

    And there's more. Generally I expect most of them to flop and there's only a select few I wish to own. Generally I'm not intrigued to make decks in Theros (with the possible exceptions of the 3 archtype-decks I mentioned before).
  • #4
    It's a fairly tame set as far as power goes.

    Well balanced, nothing really sticks out as a new chase card.

    And that's not a bad thing.
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  • #5
    One card that is absolutely broken for the format it's probably been made for (EDH) is Prophet of Kruphix. Seeborne Muse and Teferi are individually already extremely good, and combining the best elements of both in one card is just too good.

    Perhaps even in Standard it could be an extremely strong card.
  • #6
    One card that is absolutely broken for the format it's probably been made for (EDH) is Prophet of Kruphix.


    At that manacost it is 'completely reasonable' not 'broken'. Even in EDH.

    Don't get me wrong, it is a obviously powerful card, effect-wise, but it really is not that pushed otherwise.

    There is not one broken card in this entire set. We typically save that designation for cards like Tinker & Sol Ring. Rolleyes Come on people.
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  • #7
    I don't think there are any "broken" cards. However, the cards that I foresee many complaints about (think Sphinx's Rev, Thragtusk)

    Polukranos, World Eater
    Elspeth, Sun's Champion
    Heliod, God of the Sun (especially in conjuction with Planeswalkers)

    are the most glaring offenders to me. Any of the gods that do well are going to be complained about for being indestructible. Glare of Heresy handles 2 problems in Elspeth and Heliod, and I think??? they made a 2G Revoke Existance, so answers exist at least, but people won't learn to play them immediately.

    I also suspect the scry lands to make people mad when their opponents ALWAYS have the right cards.
    Last edited by Wydogg5305: 9/14/2013 12:10:59 PM
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    Modern:
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    Legacy:

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  • #8
    closest thing to broken in this set is purphoros, and thats only because he be brutal in edh and kill people with empty the warrens in modern. power level of the set feels really good though. lots of playable cards at all rarities. i am personally excited about agent of the fates for multiplayer/commander. dat repeatable sac effect is pretty sick
    on using non-basic LD:

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  • #9
    Quote from Morphling
    At that manacost it is 'completely reasonable' not 'broken'. Even in EDH.

    Don't get me wrong, it is a obviously powerful card, effect-wise, but it really is not that pushed otherwise.

    There is not one broken card in this entire set. We typically save that designation for cards like Tinker & Sol Ring. Rolleyes Come on people.


    'We'? Who's 'we'? Certainly the cards you mention are way off in terms of power level, but I think Prophet of Kruphix is too. There aren't many 5-drops in EDH that will often win you the game if not immediately answered, and Prophet is one of them. Just wait until you've encountered this bad boy a couple of times in EDH; you'll realize that sticking two already incredibly strong abilities on one body for a measly 5 mana (the exact same manacost of Seedborne Muse and Teferi) is just too powerful, for EDH. This card could've better been some legendary big boss creature of 7 or 8 mana, then it would've been much more balanced for EDH.

    As for Standard, it is of course a much faster format than EDH (the downright degenerate decks aside), but I actually see Standard slowing down when Theros hits, which might make a card like Prophet much stronger than you'd think. Perhaps not broken-strong, but definitely very strong.
  • #10
    Agent Of Fates is really strong. Sac effects are potentially the most potent kill conditions in the game (see Liliana). Potential for redundant sacrificing is strong. Imagine two of these in play and using Warrior's Lesson...

    Whip of Erebos seems to have potential be a very strong reanimator. 4cmc to bring in archon/acidic slime type creatures has potential. Is it broken? No. Could it be later? Possibly.

    Other than that, I don't think there are specific cards that are broken like Voice/Snapcaster/etc. Of all the archetypes, I feel like mono-black is going to be super strong this rotation. You heard it here.
  • #11
    I think they really tried to lower the power down in theros. Of course we haven't seen the next two but this first set seems dialed down a bit.

    Purphoros seems strong and a couple of other cards.
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  • #12
    'We'? Who's 'we'? Certainly the cards you mention are way off in terms of power level, but I think Prophet of Kruphix is too. There aren't many 5-drops in EDH that will often win you the game if not immediately answered, and Prophet is one of them. Just wait until you've encountered this bad boy a couple of times in EDH; you'll realize that sticking two already incredibly strong abilities on one body for a measly 5 mana (the exact same manacost of Seedborne Muse and Teferi) is just too powerful, for EDH. This card could've better been some legendary big boss creature of 7 or 8 mana, then it would've been much more balanced for EDH.

    As for Standard, it is of course a much faster format than EDH (the downright degenerate decks aside), but I actually see Standard slowing down when Theros hits, which might make a card like Prophet much stronger than you'd think. Perhaps not broken-strong, but definitely very strong.


    Prophet is my favorite card from the set and I agree with you. I think it is not super-strong at this moment in standard, but over the next two years, I guarantee that this card will find a home. It has too much going for it not to.
  • #13
    There are no broken cards, Theros is a pretty weak set (intentionally).

    Xenagos seems like the most powerful new card.
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  • #14
    Last Breath
    Heliod
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    Spear of Heliod

    Aqueous Form
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    Master of Waves
    Omenspeaker
    Thassa
    Triton Tactics

    Abhorrent Overlord
    Dark Betrayal
    Hero's Downfall
    Rescue From the Underworld
    Thoughtseize
    Whip of Erebos

    Anger of the Gods
    Coordinated Assault
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    Magma Jet
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    Sylvan Caryatid

    Akroan Hoplite
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    Daxos of Meletis
    Fleecemane Lion
    Horizon Chimera
    Polis Crusher
    Prophet of Kruphix
    Reaper of the Wilds
    Steam Augury
    Underworld Cerberus
    Xenagos, the Reveler

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  • #15
    Lol there are no broken cards. Look up what broken means Grin
  • #16
    I might get a laugh out of this one, but keep an open mind:

    If anyone might want to *try* and keep Bant Auras alive in standard, they got an AMAZING aura in Aqueos Form. For a single U they can turn their turn 1 Gladecover Scout (or later Witchstalker/Ascended Lawmage ((the closest Geist replacement)) ) into Invisible Stalker that Scry's every time it attacks. The mana is a little bit clunkier as we only have the Shock lands and 1 Temple, but that's 3 Hexproof creatures in standard = "12". One with evasion normally. This little inoccuous enchantment can go places. If Hexproof Aura's transitions into modern as smoothly as Reid Duke showed it could, this guy surely can help the cause. And if it doesn't quite work, oh well. Just putting that out there. And no, I'm not saying that it's a broken card, I just figured this would be a good place to mention a card I feel has potential as evvvvvveryone flocks to the "blah blah broken!" thread and I could get my two cents seen by a wider audience. Smile
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  • #17
    Quote from CubesCZ
    Lol there are no broken cards. Look up what broken means Grin


    Dictionaries typically lack jargon.
  • #18
    Quote from jonhwoods
    It seems that Theros is very light in terms of broken good cards that are way too much ahead of the curve such as Thragtusk, Voice of Resurgence, Thundermaw Hellkite, Geist of Saint Traft, Kolonian Hydra or Snapcaster Mage. Lots of playable and exciting cards, but no cards truly strike me as really pushed. I'm thankful at Wizards for that. Sucks to see MtG competition just be a bunch of obviously good cards worth 10$+ a pop.


    Just remember, nobody ever thinks that cards are "obviously broken" until a month after a deck starts dominating a format. Nobody really thought Thragtusk, Sphinx's Revelation, or Deathrite Shaman were too special until they started tearing apart formats.
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  • #19
    'We'? Who's 'we'?


    The magic community.

    There aren't many 5-drops in EDH that will often win you the game if not immediately answered, and Prophet is one of them.


    I doubt that is objectively and factually correct, but I don't really play the format enough to draft a proper rebuttal, nor do I really care that much to begin with, so I'll concede the point.

    Just wait until you've encountered this bad boy a couple of times in EDH; you'll realize that sticking two already incredibly strong abilities on one body for a measly 5 mana (the exact same manacost of Seedborne Muse and Teferi) is just too powerful, for EDH.


    This guy dies all day long to exactly the same stuff both those guys die to. Big freakin whoop? Confused

    The most powerful thing about this guy (that is any way better than those two) is he saves you a deck slot (by combining the cards), speeds up your mindless game-dominating combo a turn sooner, or provides resilience/redundancy to an already powerful pair of cards. If this guy is broken, then I guess Muse & Teferi are also broken. Is that really correct? Again, I would easily call them 'powerful' and maybe even 'OP' but not..."BROKEN" cards.

    This card could've better been some legendary big boss creature of 7 or 8 mana, then it would've been much more balanced for EDH.


    In MtG design it is very common to reduce costs on multicolor cards. Being multicolored is a drawback in itself. What you're proposing just makes the card unplayable for no good reason. He's fine at 5 imo.

    Here's a tip. If it's on the actual EDH BAN LIST, a card could be reasonably be called 'Broken in EDH'. I dunno..maybe? Still, it doesn't include universally-considered broken cards like Sol Ring, so you can't just go by that..

    Look, 'Broken' in MtG is a reserved word with a very specific meaning: It means this card is 'unfair' or 'degenerate', essentially under any circumstances. It was a design ERROR. Not 'really powerful'. They really are completely different things.

    I never once said prophet wasn't quite powerful or even game-changing or, even, oppressive. EDH is a format full of such dumb cards. They're not broken cards though.

    I'll take my answer off the air. Done with this nonsense. There's no broken cards in Theros. Stop.
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  • #20
    There are no broken cards in Theros.
    Also, everyone and their mother knew snapcaster was broken within the first 5 hours of it spoiling. It was preselling for something like $15 a couple of hours after being spoiled. Griselbrand was obviously huge to anyone who plays legacy/EDH.

    There were also plenty of people yelling about geist's power level.

    The set seems pretty low on the power level if you look at the last couple of years.

    It might be perfectly fine for the upcoming standard though. Too soon to tell.
  • #21
    Xenagos seems pretty nuts in at least Standard. I wouldn't be surprised if that card retains its $30 price. I don't know about Modern for sure, but the Gaea's Cradle ability has potential.
  • #22
    I don't think its broken, but the card I sorry about most is Warrior's lesson. It seems like it could push Gruul agro to be absurd. Gruul is already stupid good at dumping their hand, and now the deck has a sweet way of refilling their hand cheap.

    Imagine the following plays

    t1 land, X1
    t2 land, BTE,BTE,BTE,Scaveging ooze: swing 2
    t3 Warrior's lesson, warriors lesson: swing 10

    You now have 10 P/T, have dealt 12 damage, and have drawn 4 additional cards by turn 3. This is christmas land and win more, but I'm still not sure green should be getting draw 2 for 1 mana.
  • #23
    Xenagos is the closest any card in this set gets to even nuts status. 'broken' means you drop the card and it feels like you just snorted cocaine and slapped your opponent with a fistful of hundred dollar bills in a solid gold money clip.


    basically, Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
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  • #24
    What broken cards? I thought maybe I missed one in the completed spoiler, but no....there are no broken cards. Not in the slightest. Fairly balanced as far as I see. The only brokenish card saw was a 2/2 swan token. Really? 2/2 flying pond bird?
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  • #25
    Quote from gereffi
    Just remember, nobody ever thinks that cards are "obviously broken" until a month after a deck starts dominating a format. Nobody really thought Thragtusk, Sphinx's Revelation, or Deathrite Shaman were too special until they started tearing apart formats.


    I thought all 3 of those were broken as soon as they were spoiled though I wasn't sure if DRS would see standard play or just eternal. I think alot of people actually called those cards. Better examples would be Angel of Serenity, and Crater hoof behemoth because they were meta dependent. Not that many people expected that 7 drop to hit $20. If I had to guess a creature that might suprise people I would go with Shadowborn Demon. It can get pretty absurd with Whip of Erebos or Gift of Immortality and at it's very worst lets you stabilize vs aggro by removing a threat and giving you a large flying blocker. It also synergizes and is on curve with Reaper of the Wilds, Bogbrew Witch and Trading Post.

    As far as theros goes I think Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is going to surprise some people in the slower format. Free creature spells shouldn't be underestimated in control especially since control lost virtually all of it's creatures with flash. Even in the control matchup it seems good. The ultimate on turn 6+ or an uncounterable aetherling on turn 5+ could easily win games in the mirror match.
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