Meletis not only represents my favorite colors in MTG, but also my favorite polis on Theros. At first glance I loved that the city got its own Defender artifact creature, but wished it had been a little stronger.
However, I must say Guardians of Meletis may be my favorite card from Theros for being the first explicit reference to homosexuality in Magic the Gathering! That's really exciting. I was actually lead to the blog post confirming this when attempting to ask MaRo if we can expect any pretty male artwork in the future beyond just Venser and Jace for the gay men and women of the MTG community since MTG has so many lovely lady artworks (which never got asked or answered). Anyhow, besides fitting the Greek Mythology theme seamlessly, it's so great to see gays finally represented in MTG since we do comprise a fraction of the playerbase ourselves.
I hope more characters will follow suit and we get a gay planes walker or main Legendary creature character in a block story, or something. I always saw Jace as bisexual as well so I don't know. Either way, a grand step forward in the evolution of MTG representing diversity.
Sexuality for sexuality's sake has no place in Magic IMO. Jace being straight/bi/gay has nothing to do with anything, so why even mention it. That said, it is an interesting bit of flavor text.
Honestly, they shouldn't go too shove-down-our-throats with it. I wouldn't be happy if they'd do that for ANYTHING, note. Now, a few subtle references left or right, such as on this card, that's perfectly fine. Just as how I wouldn't mind a subtle reference to the bible on another card, should it be fitting of the setting/card.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Well guys I think it's easy to say that stuff because heterosexual men are generally catered to in MtG. I have no problem with evening things out a bit. Although to be honest I'd prefer if some of the females were less racy in their artwork. There's a time and place for it like Liliana of the Veil where she uses her sexuality to her benefit but Elspeth losing clothing makes very little sense. So while itd be nice if things were a bit more even, which would encourage non-hetero men and hetero women, they should just have less revealed women.
Well guys I think it's easy to say that stuff because heterosexual men are generally catered to in MtG. I have no problem with evening things out a bit. Although to be honest I'd prefer if some of the females were less racy in their artwork. There's a time and place for it like Liliana of the Veil where she uses her sexuality to her benefit but Elspeth losing clothing makes very little sense. So while itd be nice if things were a bit more even, which would encourage non-hetero men and hetero women, they should just have less revealed women.
Exactly. I don't mind the racy women so much as I wish there were more attractive men involved in MTG artwork. But it's easy to say homosexual references should be subtle or only when necessary but it sounds to me like saying there should be a straight pride parade. Until one realizes it wouldn't make sense to celebrate the unoppressed majority. Ideally they'll design a character or Planeswalker (or reveal a past character or Planeswalker that) has parts of their story relevant to their sexuality, even if it's only a simple crush on someone else, or reference to a past relationship, etc. Something to represent homosexuality and give such players something to identify with in the storylines too.
I'm all for doing this is context so long as the leap is willing to be taken, and WotC has acknowledged that more than just hetero males play MTG, but homo men and hetero women too. Strong female characters are definitely and fortunately a wonderfully reinforced concept in MTG but I think there's more room to expand in terms of representing all fans.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it shouldn't be promoted at all or anything, but the problem you're going to get when you start trying to shove it down people's throats is that you're going to alienate a large part of your customer base (because sadly, there are still a lot of close-minded people about). There's a difference between designing good-looking scantily-clad males (Hello Daxos of Meletis), to going all-out homosexual-based cards. With the Guardians, they pulled it off in a beautiful way. With Daxos as well. He's a tasty-looking man, in my humble opinion.
Keeping things subtle and sometimes ambigious will in the long run work better then trying to push it into our faces. A subtle art shift (more Daxoses) combined with the odd reference is a great way to appeal to many more audiences without alienating the more conservative part of the player base.
After all, if people are going to say "SCREW THE CONSERVATIVES, FREEDOM AND ACCEPTANCE" then there is some rather obvious hypocrisy going on, don't you think?
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it shouldn't be promoted at all or anything, but the problem you're going to get when you start trying to shove it down people's throats is that you're going to alienate a large part of your customer base (because sadly, there are still a lot of close-minded people about). There's a difference between designing good-looking scantily-clad males (Hello Daxos of Meletis), to going all-out homosexual-based cards. With the Guardians, they pulled it off in a beautiful way. With Daxos as well. He's a tasty-looking man, in my humble opinion.
Keeping things subtle and sometimes ambigious will in the long run work better then trying to push it into our faces. A subtle art shift (more Daxoses) combined with the odd reference is a great way to appeal to many more audiences without alienating the more conservative part of the player base.
After all, if people are going to say "SCREW THE CONSERVATIVES, FREEDOM AND ACCEPTANCE" then there is some rather obvious hypocrisy going on, don't you think?
I see what you mean and essentially agree. I think it should be done in context and it doesn't need to be in a flashy sense either. This card specifically was tastefully done to avoid alienating people but still representing other parts of the fanbase. I believe there's still room to go further by involving for example a gay Planeswalker in the storyline that references a past relationship or love affair with another character that happens to be male, for example. Usually only fans of stories will look beyond the cards to even discover this revelation and it's still subtle enough, but provides a character to identify with too.
Daxos was so disappointing to me. Not just because I didn't find him attractive but the art in general wasn't really impressive to me ironically. Phalanx Leader on the other hand, is delicious. Definitely more of that.
And yeah, when I pointed out this card's flavor on another forum, someone suggested they were going to burn all copies of this card rather than have his sons see them. I was like... wow okay. But those people are out there.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it shouldn't be promoted at all or anything, but the problem you're going to get when you start trying to shove it down people's throats is that you're going to alienate a large part of your customer base (because sadly, there are still a lot of close-minded people about).
If you replaced this with someone's skin color or gender, everyone would be in an uproar, but it's almost saying it's okay to marginalize one's sexuality because it's not "normal", and that therein lies the problem with tiptoeing about what some people like or don't like.
Not so long ago, I remember when different races weren't even depicted on arts, probably for similar ignorant beliefs (there can't be nonwhites in a "fantasy world"). Over time, I've seen more and more magic cards become updated to be more inclusive to more people (still yet to see Asians, outside snapcaster mage and "Asian-themed" sets). Why not for homosexuality? For as many ignorant goblins there may be, there are also a lot more gay/gay-friendly players out there.
I doubt it'll be pushed any further, just as heterosexuality on cards has never been pushed (that very likely because they don't run any books any more).
If you replaced this with someone's skin color or gender, everyone would be in an uproar, but it's almost saying it's okay to marginalize one's sexuality because it's not "normal", and that therein lies the problem with tiptoeing about what some people like or don't like.
Not so long ago, I remember when different races weren't even depicted on arts, probably for similar ignorant beliefs (there can't be nonwhites in a "fantasy world"). Over time, I've seen more and more magic cards become updated to be more inclusive to more people (still yet to see Asians, outside snapcaster mage and "Asian-themed" sets). Why not for homosexuality? For as many ignorant goblins there may be, there are also a lot more gay/gay-friendly players out there.
I doubt it'll be pushed any further, just as heterosexuality on cards has never been pushed (that very likely because they don't run any books any more).
There are way more people of color than there are alternate sexualities. It's a matter of pandering to the popular demographics while throwing a bone to the less popular ones.
Honestly, they shouldn't go too shove-down-our-throats with it. I wouldn't be happy if they'd do that for ANYTHING, note. Now, a few subtle references left or right, such as on this card, that's perfectly fine. Just as how I wouldn't mind a subtle reference to the bible on another card, should it be fitting of the setting/card.
People always use this phrase when they're forced to acknowledge that gays exist. It feels a little Freudian to me.
I quite honestly thought it was a male ruler and a female ruler when I read the text and didn't pay much attention to the art. I guess it's cool, I mean, it's just the tiniest little detail. It could even be a screw-up artist side, either way, thumbs up.
Not so long ago, I remember when different races weren't even depicted on arts, probably for similar ignorant beliefs (there can't be nonwhites in a "fantasy world").
Absolutely true. It was especially bad in the Mirage and Kamigawa blocks - you can easily say that it was a peak of ignorance there. Good that now we live in a more progressive, liberated time.
Absolutely true. It was especially bad in the Mirage and Kamigawa blocks - you can easily say that it was a peak of ignorance there. Good that now we live in a more progressive, liberated time.
What about the Kamigawa blocks? I thought the Humans looked rather Asian. But I agree for sure.
I was born and raised in Amsterdam, and threads like these make me sometimes realise that not the entire western world is as open-minded and liberal about these subjects as I believe they are.
If their intention of this artwork and other artwork is truly what you say they are I guess that is a good thing, and a general step in the right direction.
Then again, you always have to be carefull that the proverbial scale does not tip the balance to much to the other side.
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Give credit, where credit is due. Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found. The whip is kept for special occasions
The Internet was a revelation to me, I never imagined there are so many idiots on this planet.
Oh god forbid heterosexuals be forced to live in a gay world, no one should ever have to live in a culture whose expected sexuality doesn't match theirs. Better to just ship them off to camps to be with their own kind.
Absolutely true. It was especially bad in the Mirage and Kamigawa blocks - you can easily say that it was a peak of ignorance there. Good that now we live in a more progressive, liberated time.
Obviously didn't read what I wrote as I was talking about non Asian-themed sets. Sets where multiculturalism exist weren't prevalent. But seeing that you can't even read a post properly, you won't get it.
However, I must say Guardians of Meletis may be my favorite card from Theros for being the first explicit reference to homosexuality in Magic the Gathering! That's really exciting. I was actually lead to the blog post confirming this when attempting to ask MaRo if we can expect any pretty male artwork in the future beyond just Venser and Jace for the gay men and women of the MTG community since MTG has so many lovely lady artworks (which never got asked or answered). Anyhow, besides fitting the Greek Mythology theme seamlessly, it's so great to see gays finally represented in MTG since we do comprise a fraction of the playerbase ourselves.
I hope more characters will follow suit and we get a gay planes walker or main Legendary creature character in a block story, or something. I always saw Jace as bisexual as well so I don't know. Either way, a grand step forward in the evolution of MTG representing diversity.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
URNiv-Mizzet, Burn
UW Geist, Pillow Fort
WBGGhave, Tokens
BR Olivia, Tribal
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Exactly. I don't mind the racy women so much as I wish there were more attractive men involved in MTG artwork. But it's easy to say homosexual references should be subtle or only when necessary but it sounds to me like saying there should be a straight pride parade. Until one realizes it wouldn't make sense to celebrate the unoppressed majority. Ideally they'll design a character or Planeswalker (or reveal a past character or Planeswalker that) has parts of their story relevant to their sexuality, even if it's only a simple crush on someone else, or reference to a past relationship, etc. Something to represent homosexuality and give such players something to identify with in the storylines too.
I'm all for doing this is context so long as the leap is willing to be taken, and WotC has acknowledged that more than just hetero males play MTG, but homo men and hetero women too. Strong female characters are definitely and fortunately a wonderfully reinforced concept in MTG but I think there's more room to expand in terms of representing all fans.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Keeping things subtle and sometimes ambigious will in the long run work better then trying to push it into our faces. A subtle art shift (more Daxoses) combined with the odd reference is a great way to appeal to many more audiences without alienating the more conservative part of the player base.
After all, if people are going to say "SCREW THE CONSERVATIVES, FREEDOM AND ACCEPTANCE" then there is some rather obvious hypocrisy going on, don't you think?
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I see what you mean and essentially agree. I think it should be done in context and it doesn't need to be in a flashy sense either. This card specifically was tastefully done to avoid alienating people but still representing other parts of the fanbase. I believe there's still room to go further by involving for example a gay Planeswalker in the storyline that references a past relationship or love affair with another character that happens to be male, for example. Usually only fans of stories will look beyond the cards to even discover this revelation and it's still subtle enough, but provides a character to identify with too.
Daxos was so disappointing to me. Not just because I didn't find him attractive but the art in general wasn't really impressive to me ironically. Phalanx Leader on the other hand, is delicious. Definitely more of that.
And yeah, when I pointed out this card's flavor on another forum, someone suggested they were going to burn all copies of this card rather than have his sons see them. I was like... wow okay. But those people are out there.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
If you replaced this with someone's skin color or gender, everyone would be in an uproar, but it's almost saying it's okay to marginalize one's sexuality because it's not "normal", and that therein lies the problem with tiptoeing about what some people like or don't like.
Not so long ago, I remember when different races weren't even depicted on arts, probably for similar ignorant beliefs (there can't be nonwhites in a "fantasy world"). Over time, I've seen more and more magic cards become updated to be more inclusive to more people (still yet to see Asians, outside snapcaster mage and "Asian-themed" sets). Why not for homosexuality? For as many ignorant goblins there may be, there are also a lot more gay/gay-friendly players out there.
I doubt it'll be pushed any further, just as heterosexuality on cards has never been pushed (that very likely because they don't run any books any more).
There are way more people of color than there are alternate sexualities. It's a matter of pandering to the popular demographics while throwing a bone to the less popular ones.
I don't see why this is surprising.
People always use this phrase when they're forced to acknowledge that gays exist. It feels a little Freudian to me.
Absolutely true. It was especially bad in the Mirage and Kamigawa blocks - you can easily say that it was a peak of ignorance there. Good that now we live in a more progressive, liberated time.
What about the Kamigawa blocks? I thought the Humans looked rather Asian. But I agree for sure.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
He was being sarcastic. Both Kamigawa and Mirage blocks are full of black and asian people.
Hahaha I laughed. Now to find Heliod a Ganymede. Better him than Thassa. You know where I'm going with this.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
If their intention of this artwork and other artwork is truly what you say they are I guess that is a good thing, and a general step in the right direction.
Then again, you always have to be carefull that the proverbial scale does not tip the balance to much to the other side.
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
Obviously didn't read what I wrote as I was talking about non Asian-themed sets. Sets where multiculturalism exist weren't prevalent. But seeing that you can't even read a post properly, you won't get it.