Analysis of the Theros "Gods"

  • #1
    So we got a new set and some new and interesting toys to play with. The "gods" seem to be the most obscenely over priced on ebay so I think I'll start there.

    My opening question is plainly, why are the costing so much? I get that they are new and pretty cool. The art is fantastic and idea is entirely unique. My problem is their in game application. I mean they are awesome in a vacuum, no argument there. And if they are good enough as an enchantment alone, then hey, cool. But if you think you can depend on these being creatures, well that seems to be a bridge too far in my opinion.

    Purphoros for example, (currently going for $20 plus a piece on ebay), has a reason able place as an enchantment. However, I'd argue that on turn four, when he'll almost always hit that enchantment is gonna be nearly useless because you will have played out much of your hand by the time he hits. And mono red isn't gonna draw you much more for cards either. And even you are able to reach his devotion, that means you have a handful of creatures untouched on the board anyway which likely means, if he is in creature form, you are likely winning already (read win more here).

    Anybody else feeling this way? And I mean all the Gods are this way. Kinda like they're never what you need them to be when you need them.

    Also one rules question: If I have devotion for a god and turn him sideways, what happens if my opponent kills one of my other guys and reduces my devotion? Does my god revert to enchantment form before or after dealing damage?
  • #2
    Quote from damagecase
    So we got a new set and some new and interesting toys to play with. The "gods" seem to be the most obscenely over priced on ebay so I think I'll start there.

    My opening question is plainly, why are the costing so much? I get that they are new and pretty cool. The art is fantastic and idea is entirely unique. My problem is their in game application. I mean they are awesome in a vacuum, no argument there. And if they are good enough as an enchantment alone, then hey, cool. But if you think you can depend on these being creatures, well that seems to be a bridge too far in my opinion.
    Who knows. I don't claim to understand the economics of Magic: The Gathering or the psychology of Magic players.

    I suggest, however, that a lot of irrationality accounts for phenomenon regarding both areas of potential study.

    Also one rules question: If I have devotion for a god and turn him sideways, what happens if my opponent kills one of my other guys and reduces my devotion? Does my god revert to enchantment form before or after dealing damage?
    Clearly, for starters, it will cease to be a creature.

    The implications of this are, if at any juncture a God ceases to be a creature, as in this scenario, it will be removed from combat for that instance of combat. If it becomes a creature again, it will still not deal or be dealt damage.
  • #3
    The gods are expensive because they look good and are being pushed hard by card shops like SCG.

    IIrc, someone on DtR posting up the post-rotation RDW lists written by SCG pros from their premium content and every one of them had 4 Purphoros, God of the Forge.

    Now, even if you think Purphoros is playable in Standard Constructed (I don't), and even if you think it fits in RDW (I don't), does anyone think it needs to be a 4-of?

    Yes. The people preselling them for $30/each.
    "Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
    —Jaya Ballard, task mage

    Quote from Dechs Kaison
    redthirst is redthirst, fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse. He was the leader of the Fires of Salvation, the only clan I'm aware of to get modded off the forums so hard they made their own forums.

    Degenerate? Sure. Loudmouth? You bet. Law abiding? No ****ing way.

    Great guy to have around? Hell yes.
  • #4
    the red god is good but not 4-of good.
  • #5
    I've playtested with them some, and I think they are vastly overrated overall. That's not to say there aren't some good decks for them, but they are usually win-more cards because by the time you have that much devotion you're probably winning anyway.

    Though I am going to side in Erebos, God of the Dead against decks that depend on lifegain and vs. some control matchups (like Sphinx's decks).

    The white god is sort of like a planeswalker with his ability to poop out tokens. Could be good for a control deck with white.

    I think the red god might be a one-of in a deck running a ton of red-red and red-red-red creatures.

    I could see the blue god as a one-of for a control deck. Maybe.

    The green god looks decent in a mono-green aggro deck.

    Personally, I wouldn't want to run any of them as 4-of or 3-of. Probably not even 2-of.
  • #6
    Sure, and that's why I rate Thassa as the best god. She's arguably the best as merely an enchantment, and fits into the most decks.

    That said, I think that the gods are more reasonably priced than the planeswalkers.
  • #7
    You can't really expect card prices to be reasonable when: (a) it's prerelease time or (b) SCG is involved.

    Presale prices these days are highly dictated by the prices SCG set, which are stupidly inflated.
  • #8
    They'll probably become better as the Theros block expands. Right now with the smallest standard pool possible, really utilizing them to their maximum potential probably means your deck sacrificing elsewhere. Mono Red exception because those decks just work without the red god, he just forces the damage out faster (still might be slow, higher end of a mono red curve). That Mogis minotaur frankly seems better for mono red than the god.

    They just seem so slow, and as enchantments they're cheaper to interact with in this block than most.
    Standard (Theros):
    UW Control (:symu: :symw:)

    Striving to improve my Draft game.
  • #9
    People with more money than sense get afraid that they will be missing out on the next Voice of Resurgence of Jace The Mind Sculptor and panic buy.

    This shows sellers that people are willing to pay very high prices for mythics and rares.

    Thus they keep their prices high.

    Don't worry though, this happens every set. Every single card will fall in price, some crashing completely to the $2 bargain bin.
    #FreeWildNacatl
  • #10
    Quote from Catalmafie
    the red god is good but not 4-of good.


    Pretty much this. If you have a lot of board presence before he comes out, you get a 6/5 indestructible that can pump everything. If you have no board presence (or you get wiped) before he comes out, he starts hitting your opponents for 2 to the face every time you cast another creature. He's great no matter when you play him, but he's still a 4 CMC legend. Standard playable? Hecks yeah. Automatic four of? I don't think that's wise.
    I don't have a fancy color affiliation banner, I just like playing with white weenies.

    I am hereby petitioning Wizards for inclusion of the "beaver" creature type. Sig this to join the cause!
  • #11
    Quote from ShiroRX
    They'll probably become better as the Theros block expands. Right now with the smallest standard pool possible, really utilizing them to their maximum potential probably means your deck sacrificing elsewhere. Mono Red exception because those decks just work without the red god, he just forces the damage out faster (still might be slow, higher end of a mono red curve). That Mogis minotaur frankly seems better for mono red than the god.

    They just seem so slow, and as enchantments they're cheaper to interact with in this block than most.


    I agree.
  • #12
    Because they are hyped cards. Some people will want then for collection, for Cubes or for fun. And there's also the people who have so-so evaluation skills but read a lot of thrash articles.

    Also I think mtg before set release have a strange price signal effect. Some people can't evaluate cards properly or don't play test those cards with proxies/cockatrice, so they take prices as signal of quality (much like someone buying wine w/o the proper knowledge). In that case the seller, knowing his product doesn't worth that much but knowing other people's ignorance, just put a high price and expect some of then demand will bite the bate. If they putted a low price tag in those mythics many people would think "they are cheap, so they might not be good" and simply not buy then.
    Standard -
    :symr::symwr::symw: Boros Control :symr::symwr::symw:

    :symub::symb::symb: Devotion to Black (Blue Splash) :symub::symb::symb:
  • #13
    Alot of people are ok paying a premium to get mythic play sets before everyone else. Preselling mythics also costs a lot because you need to keep opening boxes until you fill your orders.
  • #14
    Quote from ShinyMan
    You can't really expect card prices to be reasonable when: (a) it's prerelease time or (b) SCG is involved.

    Presale prices these days are highly dictated by the prices SCG set, which are stupidly inflated.


    Case in point: I've seen Nightveil Spectre on various sites for .50 cents-$1. SCG sells em for $2. Yep. That's one hell of an increase (Being serious here).
  • #15
    I would expect that only the red god will make any Top 8s in the coming season, and maybe only a 1-of.

    The only card from this set that will see play without question is Thoughtseize. Everything else is a toss-up as there are no "pre-built" decks in Theros. Likely most players will use RtR block stuff with the occasional Theros card.
    Level 1 Judge

    "I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
  • #16
    Quote from redthirst
    The gods are expensive because they look good and are being pushed hard by card shops like SCG.

    IIrc, someone on DtR posting up the post-rotation RDW lists written by SCG pros from their premium content and every one of them had 4 Purphoros, God of the Forge.

    Now, even if you think Purphoros is playable in Standard Constructed (I don't), and even if you think it fits in RDW (I don't), does anyone think it needs to be a 4-of?

    Yes. The people preselling them for $30/each.

    While I agree that a 3-of is probably the right number, but what makes you think he isn't playable in Standard or fit in RDW? You're going to be playing cards that have heavy red cost making him an efficient creature, but still is doming people in a deck that is pretty creature oriented he isn't. He is also a mana sink for extra damage to boot.

    Quote from Teysa_Karlov
    I would expect that only the red god will make any Top 8s in the coming season, and maybe only a 1-of.

    The only card from this set that will see play without question is Thoughtseize. Everything else is a toss-up as there are no "pre-built" decks in Theros. Likely most players will use RtR block stuff with the occasional Theros card.

    Have you even read some of the cards?
    Last edited by Dlucks: 9/16/2013 9:55:54 PM

    Standard
    W.I.P.
    EDH
    WNorn Tokens
  • #17
    IMO, it's a result of the disappointing Scrylands and players worried that the value of the set will be much lower than RTR.
  • #18
    What most people seem to be missing is that they are control/midrange tools, not aggro helpers.

    Quote from Teysa_Karlov
    I would expect that only the red god will make any Top 8s in the coming season, and maybe only a 1-of.

    The only card from this set that will see play without question is Thoughtseize. Everything else is a toss-up as there are no "pre-built" decks in Theros. Likely most players will use RtR block stuff with the occasional Theros card.


    Players like you are the ones that get surprised when someone brews a deck that goes to become dominant. "pre-built" decks are, more often than not, of mediocre to decent quality as they have been playtested to death by the developers. A dominant deck uses tiny synergies between different cards of all the sets in the format to find a mix of elements that might have escaped Wizards's strict power-level control.
    Last edited by Pylgrim: 9/16/2013 10:08:57 PM
    On Desecration Demon:

    Quote from clan_iraq
    I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.

    Quote from clan_iraq
    I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
  • #19
    Remember when Tibalt costed $20 dollars?

    That's why the gods are that high. The hype of them before actual playtesting occurs jacks up the prices. They drop when supply is higher and demand drops.
    "Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
    —Lazav


    _______________________________________________

    Mafia Stats

    Summary:
    Total Win %: 40%
    Total Scum Win %: 60%
    Total Town Win %: 20%
    Total Neutral Win %: 0%
  • #20
    Quote from montoyafan33
    IMO, it's a result of the disappointing Scrylands and players worried that the value of the set will be much lower than RTR.


    You think the lands are the reason? It's not that they're big shiny mythics with god in their subtype is it?
    Standard (Theros):
    UW Control (:symu: :symw:)

    Striving to improve my Draft game.
  • #21
  • #22
    People are judging the Gods too harshly on their effects, and not enough on the lack of removal for them. This factor alone should have them seeing play.
  • #23
    Quote from Dlucks
    While I agree that a 3-of is probably the right number, but what makes you think he isn't playable in Standard or fit in RDW? You're going to be playing cards that have heavy red cost making him an efficient creature, but still is doming people in a deck that is pretty creature oriented he isn't. He is also a mana sink for extra damage to boot.


    I don't think any of the gods are playable in Standard, but I'll focus on Purphoros.

    The last thing I want is to be forced to over-extend my board in order to avoid having my 6/5 Indestructable creature (with no evasion btw) turned back into a non-creature enchantment mid combat. In addition to Purphoros being a lot more fragile as a creature in practice than its stats would imply, RDW tops its curve at 4 or maybe 5 mana which means that by the time you can capitalize on Purphoros's static ability you've already pretty much emptied your hand. That leaves the vast amount of Purphoros's burden to prove itself playable in RDW squarely on the shoulders of its activated ability - and while +1/+0 to everything is nice, is a mana sink, and does play well with Aggro creatures, it's not even close to worth 3R and a card (that will otherwise likely have little-to-no impact) to unlock + 2R to activate.

    I'd just play Fanatic. When you have 5+ devotion it's a worse creature, but it does a lot of damage the turn it ETB. When you have less than 5 devotion, it doesn't do much when it comes into play but it is, at least, a body and can end the game by itself.
    "Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
    —Jaya Ballard, task mage

    Quote from Dechs Kaison
    redthirst is redthirst, fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse. He was the leader of the Fires of Salvation, the only clan I'm aware of to get modded off the forums so hard they made their own forums.

    Degenerate? Sure. Loudmouth? You bet. Law abiding? No ****ing way.

    Great guy to have around? Hell yes.
  • #24
    I imagine there is some pretty strong decks you can make around the blue god.
    Scry every single turn, and then combo in some heavy hitters with unblockable or creatures with effects on combat damage.

    While the red god is super strong, he should only be played in a mid-game deck.
  • #25
    Only one card is often required to make a whole new Archetype. Remember how Wolf Run Ramp was created and dominated the early format just after Innistrad was released, and it was only possible due to the existence of Kessig Wolf Run.
    Quote from Verox Kinaltor
    Found out why Mogis has sided with Xenagos guys!


    He was in the band playing at the party
    :D:D:D:D
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.
Posts Quoted:
Reply
Clear All Quotes