do you think we even need this white-splash? i mean i like your list, but dont you think you could do this mono red?
I think that mono red is absurdly favored vs aggro but against control it's Chandra or bust. The white splash allows the deck to destroy aggro with Reckoner and burn, while beating control with Chandra, Assemble and Elsie.
Against midrange, Purphoros + any token producer should win the game.
You're right, I honestly forgot about that card. I would cut a Warleader's Helix, a Mizzium Mortars and a Magma Jet to fit three copies in. It helps to vary the removal suite.
Yeah...my UB control runs Thoughtseize and Lifebane Zombie and your deck crumbles to those cards.
Man, who knew that Lifebane Zombie was such a beating against a black-based deck with a total of three white creatures that aren't Smiters? Who knew that a midrange deck would "crumble" against a 1-for-1 hand disruption spell? I mean, this guy obviously knows something we don't know, since he's trying to play a control deck with no sweeper and no Revelations.
I would like some help with my Selesnya aggro deck...I have the core that I want to be there, but am not sure about what to keep out...also, if there is anything in my core cards that you question, please let me know...
Man, who knew that Lifebane Zombie was such a beating against a black-based deck with a total of three white creatures that aren't Smiters? Who knew that a midrange deck would "crumble" against a 1-for-1 hand disruption spell? I mean, this guy obviously knows something we don't know, since he's trying to play a control deck with no sweeper and no Revelations.
Well, the zombie could still get the smiters because he exiles the card. Plus the oozes.
I mean, it's definately a card...but like, every deck has some cards. Most are pretty good.
But the joke is on him because obvs I'm going to thoughtseize his thoughtseize and his deck crumbles to that. Also, my dad can beat up his dad.
I'm relatively new to the game and don't know much about the meta, but could something like this be good? I came up with it out of love for Ajani's Chosen.
Not sure how good that build is, but I like it. I think I'd try replacing the fanatics with Spellheart chimeras and cutting the crusaders, but I hate not having a turn 1 play. The sideboard is all counters all the time.
Not sure how good that build is, but I like it. I think I'd try replacing the fanatics with Spellheart chimeras and cutting the crusaders, but I hate not having a turn 1 play. The sideboard is all counters all the time.
Fanatic does seem lackluster in that deck.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
- H. L. Mencken
Yeah, point taken. The master of waves is in there for the lord effect first, devotion second, but fanatic doesn't have much else going for it. 3 chimeras -1 hidden strings and cutting the crusaders for Cloudfin Raptors seems like a good move. I could sideboard in swan's song without worrying much.
Patrick Chapin recently posted an article on SCG about a U/G Evolve aggro deck that definitely got my attention, especially because I thought Evolve was one of the most interesting mechanics to come out of the RTR block. Now that it appears that blitz aggro is being toned down for the coming rotation, I tweaked his list a bit and began testing, to some pretty interesting results. Here's the deck:
Obviously, with exactly 0 noncreature spells, this deck might appear to be weak to sweepers, but I haven't experienced that yet, mostly because you can afford not to overcommit if you're curving out. I don't know how I feel about Gyre Sage, and I was considering replacing it either with Drakewing Krasis or the new 2/1 flyer from 1U in Theros. Overall it feels pretty fun and I like that it's skill-testing in terms of maximizing damage with Evolve.
Scry will make this deck click like clockwork. The big difference in tech is Read The Bones. It solves so many issues and is so strong with Prophet. Why? Because you can cast Read The Bones on your turn, and then have full mana up on your opponents turn to play whatever you drew. The deck currently only has two cards (2 Vraskas and 3 Read the bones) that can't be cast on the opponents turn with Prophet in play.
The filtering on this deck is INSANE. Between Omenspeaker, the Bane Alley Brokers, Dissolve, Scry lands, Read the bones, and the Reaper's Scry effect, you should ALWAYS have the answer you need.
And Vraska SHINES in this deck. Elspeth? Not a problem. Pretty much anything short of a God is just gone (and how many of those are actually viable anyway?). Vraska is actually the queen on control because she eats control finishers for dinner (Desecration Demon, Elspeth, Dragon, Hydra, etc).
Sideboard could use some work, Thoughtseize could be in (they will NOT be in my deck probably ever, can't afford em) as well as Hero's demise in for Doom Blade (YMMV).
General wincon is drop Aetherling on opponents turn for 6cmc leaving one land untapped. Reaper Of The Wilds stabilizes. Read the Bones, Prophet and Vraska controls the game til you can end it.
As a 2/2? Nah. Besides, he can swing at me all day against my Omenspeakers/Bane-Alley Brokers and Far//Away loves bouncing tokens. Reaper Of The Wilds laughs all day at Selesnya. This deck has no problem tapping down a lot (not all) of mana on main phase to take out Voice.
And I know the same number of people running 4 Voices in their deck as I expect to see running 4 Thoughtseize...Not many in my area.
Patrick Chapin recently posted an article on SCG about a U/G Evolve aggro deck that definitely got my attention, especially because I thought Evolve was one of the most interesting mechanics to come out of the RTR block. Now that it appears that blitz aggro is being toned down for the coming rotation, I tweaked his list a bit and began testing, to some pretty interesting results. Here's the deck:
Obviously, with exactly 0 noncreature spells, this deck might appear to be weak to sweepers, but I haven't experienced that yet, mostly because you can afford not to overcommit if you're curving out. I don't know how I feel about Gyre Sage, and I was considering replacing it either with Drakewing Krasis or the new 2/1 flyer from 1U in Theros. Overall it feels pretty fun and I like that it's skill-testing in terms of maximizing damage with Evolve.
I actually have a RUG deck that's similar to that. I think post-rotation might be the place for evolve to take hold as there is just to much value-towning going on right now to bother with the mechanic for the most part. It has serious potential, and has led me to a few top-8s at FNM.
- archangel
- chronicler of heroes
+ warrior's lesson
Your lifegain and counter placement isn't really consistent enough to justify these. You're pretty much just running all the best creatures in the colours, so might as well just draw more of them when you get in.
Firstly, I will apologize in advance about my lack of knowledge regarding formatting. I am attempting a Jund build post rotation and this is a rough idea of what I want it to look like.
Honorable mentions go to Deathrite Shaman, Devour Flesh and Desecration Demon, but I am uncertain of what to cut for them. I could potentially go easier on the kill spells or discards to fit them in but I am unsure of what direction I should go. I know some cards like Underworld Cerberus may be anti-synergetic with a bunch of kill spells but I still feel it's a very powerful card. Regardless, suggestions are welcome, and again, I am sorry my formatting is no good.
I'm interested in this deck too. I edited your decklist to my liking. Anger of the Gods, Burning Earth, Ember Swallower and some other stuff would come out of the sideboard. I know I want 2-3 Ratchet Bomb in the main deck because I expect Voice of Resurgence and Advent of the Wurm to be played in numbers.. and this deck doesn't really have a way to deal with Advent of the Wurm. edit: another version of the deck could include Young Pyromancer since that card is also good at being a "two way player," giving value on defense and offense. edit2: took out Nykthos.. it's just not as good as a Mountain 99% of the time
The deck I've been brewing in my head looks something like this. It's pretty self-explanatory: use kill spells and stuff like Lifebane and Blood Baron to hold the fort until you can get the Whip up, then start bringing guys back. When your devotion is high enough, you can bring back Abhorrent Overlord of Gray Merchant of Asphodel for a blowout.
Putrefy, I think black is hurting you a lot more than helping. Likewise, Garruk is poor here. The +1 can get you a lot of cards, but you'll never cast more than 1 a turn (just think of all you could have done with the other two walkers by then), and the -3 only has Kalonian Hydra to target (profitably, anyway).
Your only early defense is Caryatid (which you need to start using the turn after you cast it) and slow kill that should be quick burn. Polukranos, World Eater would help a lot.
If you want to make the deck more competitive (but less Hydra-y), try moving Mistcutter Hydra to the sideboard, cutting Savageborn Hydra, and upping Kalonian to 4 (by far the strongest).
For more Hydrocity, give Ordeal of Nylea a try. Cast > Attack > Profit. Vastwood Hydra would be just for theme, but can do alright from the side against black.
Thank's a lot good Sir. Cutting black was a very good suggestion and dropping Savageborn Hydra aswell. I don't like siding out Mistcutter Hydra because I want to keep the Hydra-theme (though the most work is doing Stormbreath Dragon so far). I added Polukranos, World Eater and he is a nice staller. Here is my updated list if you mind.
I want to try an esper shell with Elspeth, Sun's Champion as a possible finisher overAetherling and run Erebos and his whip, and thoughtseize with Sphinx's revelation it looks like it's missing a good cantrip though
I think that mono red is absurdly favored vs aggro but against control it's Chandra or bust. The white splash allows the deck to destroy aggro with Reckoner and burn, while beating control with Chandra, Assemble and Elsie.
Against midrange, Purphoros + any token producer should win the game.
You're right, I honestly forgot about that card. I would cut a Warleader's Helix, a Mizzium Mortars and a Magma Jet to fit three copies in. It helps to vary the removal suite.
20 Forest
3 Mutavault
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Creatures
4 Elvish Mystic
2 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Scavenging Ooze
4 Kalonian Tusker
2 Nylea, God of the Hunt
4 Kalonian Hydra
2 Sylvan Primordial
2 Bow of Nylea
Planeswalkers
3 Garruk, Caller of Beasts
3 Savage Summoning
2 Naturalize
4 Pit Fight
4 Witchstalker
2 Mistcutter Hydra
Hmm. A few cards short. What else goes in this deck?
3 Master of Waves
2 Wavecrash Triton
4 Omenspeaker
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
4 Purphoros, God of the Forge
2 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
Enchantments 5
4 Claustrophobia
1 Agoraphobia
3 Lost in a Labyrinth
4 Voyage's End
4 Magma Jet
2 Steam Augury
3 Rapid Hybridization
Lands 23
4 Steam Vents
13 Island
6 Mountain
1 Sage's Row Denizen
1 Murmuring Phantasm
2 Rapid Hybridization
1 Clinging Anemones
1 Runner's Bane
You Scry for Master of Waves & Purphoros, God of the Forge.
Drop Claustrophobia & Agoraphobia as Removal
Wavecrash Triton & Agoraphobia = a look on lategame
Man, who knew that Lifebane Zombie was such a beating against a black-based deck with a total of three white creatures that aren't Smiters? Who knew that a midrange deck would "crumble" against a 1-for-1 hand disruption spell? I mean, this guy obviously knows something we don't know, since he's trying to play a control deck with no sweeper and no Revelations.
For sure:
Creatures
4x Voice of Resurgence
4x Loxodon Smiter
4x Fleecemane Lion
Enchantments
4x Unflinching Courage
Instants
4x Advent of the Wurm
2x Selesnya Charm
Probable:
2x Garruk, Caller of Beasts
4x Scavenging Ooze
4x Experiement One
Not Sure:
2 more Selesnya Charm
Gift of Immortality
Elvish Mystic
Sylvan Caryatid
Dryad Militant
Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Domri Rade
4 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Nylea, God of the Hunt
2 Purphorous, God of the Forge
3 Dreg Mangler
3 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch
3 Kalonian Hydra
3 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Dreadbore (or WTF is in Theros)
3 Ogre Battledriver
Sideboard
Enchantment and Ratchet bomb hate and Ash Zealot
And the lands
Well, the zombie could still get the smiters because he exiles the card. Plus the oozes.
I mean, it's definately a card...but like, every deck has some cards. Most are pretty good.
But the joke is on him because obvs I'm going to thoughtseize his thoughtseize and his deck crumbles to that. Also, my dad can beat up his dad.
WG Enchants/Token Control.
4 Elvish Mystic
2 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Imposing Sovereign
2 Banisher Priest
4 Heliod, God of the Sun
4 Ajani's Chosen
2 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
4 Ethereal Armor
3 Oath of the Ancient Wood
3 Mana Bloom
2 Spear of Heliod
2 Ordeal of Nylea
2 Growing Ranks
4 Brave the Elements
2 Selesnya Charm
4 Rootborn Defenses
Plus lands, of course. And need to cut down on some cards.
Something like
4x Akroan Crusader
4x Young Pyromancer
3x Goblin Electromancer3x Guttersnipe
2x Master of Waves
2x Fanatic of Mogis
4x Fate Foretold
3x Magma Jet
2x Lightning Strike
4x Hidden Strings
2x Molten Birth
3x Turn/Burn
3x Divination
Not sure how good that build is, but I like it. I think I'd try replacing the fanatics with Spellheart chimeras and cutting the crusaders, but I hate not having a turn 1 play. The sideboard is all counters all the time.
Fanatic does seem lackluster in that deck.
- H. L. Mencken
French Duel Commander
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer RUG
Yeah, point taken. The master of waves is in there for the lord effect first, devotion second, but fanatic doesn't have much else going for it. 3 chimeras -1 hidden strings and cutting the crusaders for Cloudfin Raptors seems like a good move. I could sideboard in swan's song without worrying much.
4x Boon Satyr
4x Cloudfin Raptor
4x Experiment One
4x Gyre Sage
4x Shambleshark
3x Kalonian Hydra
3x Polukranos, World Eater
3x Scavenging Ooze
2x Vorel of the Hull Clade
1x Prime Speaker Zegana
10x Forest
6x Island
4x Breeding Pool
4x Temple of Mystery
Obviously, with exactly 0 noncreature spells, this deck might appear to be weak to sweepers, but I haven't experienced that yet, mostly because you can afford not to overcommit if you're curving out. I don't know how I feel about Gyre Sage, and I was considering replacing it either with Drakewing Krasis or the new 2/1 flyer from 1U in Theros. Overall it feels pretty fun and I like that it's skill-testing in terms of maximizing damage with Evolve.
4x Omen Speaker
2x Bane Alley Broker
4x Reaper Of The Wild
3x Prophet Of Kruphix
2x Aetherling
Spells: 20
3x Doom Blade
4x Far//Away
1x Golgari Charm
2x Negate
2x Simic Charm
3x Dissolve
3x Read The Bones
2x Vraska The Unseen
4x Breeding Pool
4x Watery Grave
4x Overgrown Tomb
3x Temple of Simic
3x Temple of Golgari
4x Temple of Dimir
1x Forest
1x Island
1x Swamp
1x Vraska The Unseen
1x Dissolve
2x Negate
2x Simic Charm
3x Dark Betrayal
2x Lotleth Troll
2x Ratchet Bomb
1x Golgari Charm
Scry will make this deck click like clockwork. The big difference in tech is Read The Bones. It solves so many issues and is so strong with Prophet. Why? Because you can cast Read The Bones on your turn, and then have full mana up on your opponents turn to play whatever you drew. The deck currently only has two cards (2 Vraskas and 3 Read the bones) that can't be cast on the opponents turn with Prophet in play.
The filtering on this deck is INSANE. Between Omenspeaker, the Bane Alley Brokers, Dissolve, Scry lands, Read the bones, and the Reaper's Scry effect, you should ALWAYS have the answer you need.
And Vraska SHINES in this deck. Elspeth? Not a problem. Pretty much anything short of a God is just gone (and how many of those are actually viable anyway?). Vraska is actually the queen on control because she eats control finishers for dinner (Desecration Demon, Elspeth, Dragon, Hydra, etc).
Sideboard could use some work, Thoughtseize could be in (they will NOT be in my deck probably ever, can't afford em) as well as Hero's demise in for Doom Blade (YMMV).
General wincon is drop Aetherling on opponents turn for 6cmc leaving one land untapped. Reaper Of The Wilds stabilizes. Read the Bones, Prophet and Vraska controls the game til you can end it.
Any thoughts?
4 Experiment One
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Fleecemane Lion
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Chronicler of Heroes
2 Kalonian Hydra
2 Archangel of Thune
2 Selesnya Charm
4 Advent of the Wurm
Planeswalkers
2 Garruk, Caller of Beasts
Lands
4 Temple Garden
12 Forest
8 Plains
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
3 Rootborn Defenses
2 Selesnya Charm
2 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Unflinching Courage
2 Gift of Immortality
Selesnya Aggro...suggestions wanted...
As a 2/2? Nah. Besides, he can swing at me all day against my Omenspeakers/Bane-Alley Brokers and Far//Away loves bouncing tokens. Reaper Of The Wilds laughs all day at Selesnya. This deck has no problem tapping down a lot (not all) of mana on main phase to take out Voice.
And I know the same number of people running 4 Voices in their deck as I expect to see running 4 Thoughtseize...Not many in my area.
I actually have a RUG deck that's similar to that. I think post-rotation might be the place for evolve to take hold as there is just to much value-towning going on right now to bother with the mechanic for the most part. It has serious potential, and has led me to a few top-8s at FNM.
- archangel
- chronicler of heroes
+ warrior's lesson
Your lifegain and counter placement isn't really consistent enough to justify these. You're pretty much just running all the best creatures in the colours, so might as well just draw more of them when you get in.
Ranger's guile in the board.
2x Corpsejack Menace
4x Elvish Mystic
3x Kalonian Hydra
3x Mistcutter Hydra
3x Savageborn Hydra
2x Stormbreath Dragon
4x Sylvan Caryatid
Planeswalker (6)
2x Domri Rade
2x Garruk, Caller of Beasts
2x Xenagos, The Reveler
4x Blood Crypt
7x Forest
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Stomping Ground
4x Temple of Abandon
Instant (8)
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Golgari Charm
2x Hero's Downfall
2x Putrefy
Enchantment (2)
2x Hammer of Purphoros
2x Anger of the Gods
3x Erebos, God of the Dead
3x Mizzium Mortars
3x Doom Blade
4x Scavenging Ooze
So, tell me what you think? Can this achieve something?
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Boon Satyr
2 Underworld Cerberus
2 Stormbreath Dragon
Instant (10)
3 Magma Jet
3 Putrefy
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Doom Blade
Sorcery (8)
3 Read the Bones
3 Thoughtseize
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
Land (25)
5 Swamp
4 Blood Crypt
4 Overgrown Tomb
3 Stomping Ground
3 Temple of Abandon
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Forest
2 Mountain
3 Destructive Revelry
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Slaughter Games
2 Duress
1 Stormbreath Dragon
Honorable mentions go to Deathrite Shaman, Devour Flesh and Desecration Demon, but I am uncertain of what to cut for them. I could potentially go easier on the kill spells or discards to fit them in but I am unsure of what direction I should go. I know some cards like Underworld Cerberus may be anti-synergetic with a bunch of kill spells but I still feel it's a very powerful card. Regardless, suggestions are welcome, and again, I am sorry my formatting is no good.
I'm interested in this deck too. I edited your decklist to my liking. Anger of the Gods, Burning Earth, Ember Swallower and some other stuff would come out of the sideboard. I know I want 2-3 Ratchet Bomb in the main deck because I expect Voice of Resurgence and Advent of the Wurm to be played in numbers.. and this deck doesn't really have a way to deal with Advent of the Wurm. edit: another version of the deck could include Young Pyromancer since that card is also good at being a "two way player," giving value on defense and offense. edit2: took out Nykthos.. it's just not as good as a Mountain 99% of the time
Post-Rotation Junk Whip
4x Lifebane Zombie
2x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
3x Obzedat, Ghost Council
2x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Abhorrent Overlord
Enchantments (5)
3x Whip of Erebos
2x Underworld Connections
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Putrefy
1x Hero's Downfall
3x Grisly Salvage
3x Commune with the Gods
Sorceries (3)
2x Read the Bones
1x Obzedat's Aid
2x Liliana of the Dark Realms
1x Vraska the Unseen
Lands (23)
10x Swamp
2x Forest
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Godless Shrine
3x Temple Garden
MTGO Nick: neonordnance
LGS: Dream Wizards in Rockville, MD
Thank's a lot good Sir. Cutting black was a very good suggestion and dropping Savageborn Hydra aswell. I don't like siding out Mistcutter Hydra because I want to keep the Hydra-theme (though the most work is doing Stormbreath Dragon so far). I added Polukranos, World Eater and he is a nice staller. Here is my updated list if you mind.
4x Elvish Mystic
3x Kalonian Hydra
3x Mistcutter Hydra
3x Polukranos, World Eater
4x Stormbreath Dragon
4x Sylvan Caryatid
7x Forest
7x Mountain
4x Stomping Ground
4x Temple of Abandon
Sorcery (3)
3x Anger of the Gods
3x Lightning Strike
3x Magma Jet
Planeswalker (6)
3x Domri Rade
3x Xenagos, The Reveler
Enchantment (2)
2x Hammer of Purphoros
1x Colossus of Akros
2x Sylvan Primordial
4x Shadowborn Demon
4x Reaper of the Wilds
3x Polukranos, World Eater
2x Nylea, God of the Hunt
2x Erebos, God of the Dead
2x Varolz, the Scar-Striped
4x Manaweft Sliver
4x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Garruk, Caller of Beasts
2x Whip of Erebos
2x Bow of Nylea
Spells - 3
3x Hero's Downfall
Land - 23
4x Golgari Guildgate
4x Overgrown Tomb
8x Forest
7x Swamp
2x Sylvan Primordial
2x Primeval Bounty
3x Arbor Colossus
2x Vraska the Unseen
2x Putrefy
4x Thoughtseize
This is what I'm going to be playing after rotation.
Polukranos, World Eater is going to be the "sweeper" for this deck against aggro, and against control he is just a big beater.
Arbor Colossus is for all the Desecration Demons that are going to see play after rotation.
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