Modern Theros?

  • #1
    Anyone think any cards will make an impact in modern?
    Thoughtsieze? eh? EH?
    Is that so?
    Quote from Thilon
    Since we have a "dies to removal guy" post, I feel the need to point out what's been pointed out since the game began.

    Most things die to removal.

    Shocking, I know. It was a surprise to me as well. It's almost like it's a part of the game.


    Currently Playing

    Modern

    black mana Mono Black Infect black mana
    :symu::symb::symr: Grixis Control :symu::symb::symr:
  • #2
    Prety sure Thoughtseize doesn't count since it is a reprint. I think in modern, the RG walker may find a place. Also the red God could make a deck due to his other creatures entering the battlefield ability. But at this moment it is a guess. I am sure I am missing something as this set is so new.
    All your base are belong to us!
  • #3
    There is already a thread for this in the Modern forum.

    Ehrmagersh, a new deck is doing well. Breakz out de banhammerz!


    New World Order is a limit on the complexity of commons. It has nothing to do with power-level.

    Modern is not less diverse than Legacy. It has more aggro and ramp, the same amount of combo and midrange, and less control and tempo. It has almost has many viable decks. People who claim that Modern isn't diverse without even playing the format are just as bad as the people who say that Legacy is a turn 1 kill format.

    Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.

    Quote from Valanarch
    Has anyone considered Eyeblight's Ending as a 1 or 2 of in the deck? Just curious because it boosts Goyf another point and it's pretty rare that an Elf is the creature you need to deal with in Modern.


    The problem is that it isn't as good as the other options for 3 mana removal (Maelstrom Pulse, Dismember, Hero's Downfall, and Putrefy). And Putrefy isn't even played.


    I swear you're omnipresent sometimes Valanarch...

  • #4
    Swan Song, Anger of the Gods, Hero's Downfall, Stormbreath Dragon all look like they will see some serious play in Modern.
    Master of the Waves is likely going to be played in Merfolk.
    UWR tempo and Control are probably going to want Chained to the Rocks, it's almost better than path for the decks. Ajundi might even play it.
    The on-color hate cycle will most likely see sideboard play, especially Dark Betrayal and Gainsay.
    I can see Ritual Gifts becoming a semi-prominent deck with Steam Augury. It will likely be more controlling than previous versions, but with 2 big instants to load up the hand and graveyard, the deck may actually become a contender.

    Just some quick observations.

    Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!

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  • #5
    Quote from enollava
    Prety sure Thoughtseize doesn't count since it is a reprint. I think in modern, the RG walker may find a place. Also the red God could make a deck due to his other creatures entering the battlefield ability. But at this moment it is a guess. I am sure I am missing something as this set is so new.


    I know. Twas a joke. lol I could definetly see either seeing play. I could really see anger of the gods being played. seems really good against pod and dredge-style.
    Quote from Thilon
    Since we have a "dies to removal guy" post, I feel the need to point out what's been pointed out since the game began.

    Most things die to removal.

    Shocking, I know. It was a surprise to me as well. It's almost like it's a part of the game.


    Currently Playing

    Modern

    black mana Mono Black Infect black mana
    :symu::symb::symr: Grixis Control :symu::symb::symr:
  • #6
    Quote from Tinfoil Hat
    Swan Song, Anger of the Gods, Hero's Downfall, Stormbreath Dragon all look like they will see some serious play in Modern.
    Master of the Waves is likely going to be played in Merfolk.
    UWR tempo and Control are probably going to want Chained to the Rocks, it's almost better than path for the decks. Ajundi might even play it.
    The on-color hate cycle will most likely see sideboard play, especially Dark Betrayal and Gainsay.
    I can see Ritual Gifts becoming a semi-prominent deck with Steam Augury. It will likely be more controlling than previous versions, but with 2 big instants to load up the hand and graveyard, the deck may actually become a contender.

    Just some quick observations.


    I think you are wrong about most of these.

    Swan Song will see play, but most decks will still run Spell Pierce.

    Anger of the Gods is good but it isn't any better than Slagstorm as a 3 mana red sweeper.

    Hero's Downfall won't see play in major decks. Planeswalkers aren't much of a force in Modern, and most decks that want 3 mana planeswalker removal can run Maelstrom Pulse.

    Stormbreath Dragon will see play but only as a Thundermaw Hellkite replacement.

    Master of the Waves will not see play in Merfolk. Merfolk does not need a finisher, it costs too much mana for the deck, and you would be better off running more lords.

    Chained to Rocks is worse than Path to Exile. It can only be played at sorcery speed, you need a mountain at the time to do it (which, while easy to get, will not always be the case), can't be used as easily on turn 1, and they get their creature back if they destroy the land or enchantment (Abrupt Decay can't take out Path, but it can take out this).

    Glare of Heresy won't see play. It is a 2 mana piece of sorcery speed removal. Celestial Flare does a lot more at its cost and since almost everything that you would be targeting with this is a creature, Path to Exile is a lot better.

    Gainsay will not see play. For most blue spells that people would want to counter, there is Dispel. At the same mana cost, we have Negate. Gainsay is not nearly as good as those 2 cards.

    Dark Betrayal will not see play. For one mana black removal, Deathmark is better. After that, black has access to Victim of the Night, Doom Blade, Go For the Throat, and many others that are better than this.

    Peak Eruption will not see play. We already have Molten Rain, and it doesn't even see much play. Having a colorless mana instead of a red mana in the mana cost, being able to target basic mountains, and doing 1 more damage is not worth losing the ability to hit nonbasics.

    Hunt the Hunter will not see play. Mono-green does not exist in Modern. Neither does green-blue. Every other color pairing has better removal than this.

    Steam Augury will see play, but not in Ritual Gifts. If you hit a combo piece like Elesh Norn, your opponent will just put it in your hand. Steam Augury will see play, but the places where it will see play are WUR Midrange and possibly in WUR Control (replacing Sphinx's Revelation in the midrange version).
    Last edited by Valanarch: 9/12/2013 4:36:08 PM

    Ehrmagersh, a new deck is doing well. Breakz out de banhammerz!


    New World Order is a limit on the complexity of commons. It has nothing to do with power-level.

    Modern is not less diverse than Legacy. It has more aggro and ramp, the same amount of combo and midrange, and less control and tempo. It has almost has many viable decks. People who claim that Modern isn't diverse without even playing the format are just as bad as the people who say that Legacy is a turn 1 kill format.

    Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.

    Quote from Valanarch
    Has anyone considered Eyeblight's Ending as a 1 or 2 of in the deck? Just curious because it boosts Goyf another point and it's pretty rare that an Elf is the creature you need to deal with in Modern.


    The problem is that it isn't as good as the other options for 3 mana removal (Maelstrom Pulse, Dismember, Hero's Downfall, and Putrefy). And Putrefy isn't even played.


    I swear you're omnipresent sometimes Valanarch...

  • #7
    the chimera will see play in variations of U/R Delver tempo decks with Young Pyromancer.
    the chimera will actually go maybe in legacy grixis tempo lists with yp/delver instead of tombstalker.

    hero's downfall is a sideboard option for mono black pox in legacy, and gives mono black another option in modern, mono black in modern does not need that much more to be pretty viable - not sure how someone can say that planeswalkers don't play a role in modern. I don't know how many times I wished I had an answer to Karn Liberated.
    Liliana and Ajani Vengeant are two of the most played cards in modern and some Jund lists also play Garruk Relentless.
    Last edited by quizzlemanizzle: 9/12/2013 4:56:45 PM
  • #8
    -Thoughtseize, if you count it

    -Stormbreath Dragon: pro white is huge in Modern, most of the the played fliers there are white, and dodging Path is great, especially when it's too big for LB

    -Xanagos has a possibility, but not very likely

    -Chain to the Rocks should see play in various decks

    -Thassa should be played in Merfolk, I've done some testing and she is great(2-of), it's easy to get her devotion and the scry really helps in a deck where drawing a 4th or 5th land is terrible. Also cheap enough to fit the curve.

    -Read the Bones is a card that hasn't been getting nearly enough attention, not sure if it will be good enough for Modern but it's a great control card
  • #9
    Quote from quizzlemanizzle
    the chimera will see play in variations of U/R Delver tempo decks with Young Pyromancer.
    the chimera will actually go maybe in legacy grixis tempo lists with yp/delver instead of tombstalker.

    hero's downfall is a sideboard option for mono black pox in legacy, and gives mono black another option in modern, mono black in modern does not need that much more to be pretty viable - not sure how someone can say that planeswalkers don't play a role in modern. I don't know how many times I wished I had an answer to Karn Liberated.
    Liliana and Ajani Vengeant are two of the most played cards in modern and some Jund lists also play Garruk Relentless.


    4 cards is not much of a role. Liliana dies to Abrupt Decay, which makes it the superior choice for dealing with her. All planeswalkers die to Maelstrom Pulse, which is a far better card. Hero's Downfall will be played in Mono-Black Control, but that isn't a top tier deck.

    Ehrmagersh, a new deck is doing well. Breakz out de banhammerz!


    New World Order is a limit on the complexity of commons. It has nothing to do with power-level.

    Modern is not less diverse than Legacy. It has more aggro and ramp, the same amount of combo and midrange, and less control and tempo. It has almost has many viable decks. People who claim that Modern isn't diverse without even playing the format are just as bad as the people who say that Legacy is a turn 1 kill format.

    Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.

    Quote from Valanarch
    Has anyone considered Eyeblight's Ending as a 1 or 2 of in the deck? Just curious because it boosts Goyf another point and it's pretty rare that an Elf is the creature you need to deal with in Modern.


    The problem is that it isn't as good as the other options for 3 mana removal (Maelstrom Pulse, Dismember, Hero's Downfall, and Putrefy). And Putrefy isn't even played.


    I swear you're omnipresent sometimes Valanarch...

  • #10
    Quote from NicolBolasTM
    -Thoughtseize, if you count it

    -Stormbreath Dragon: pro white is huge in Modern, most of the the played fliers there are white, and dodging Path is great, especially when it's too big for LB

    -Xanagos has a possibility, but not very likely

    -Chain to the Rocks should see play in various decks

    -Thassa should be played in Merfolk, I've done some testing and she is great(2-of), it's easy to get her devotion and the scry really helps in a deck where drawing a 4th or 5th land is terrible. Also cheap enough to fit the curve.

    -Read the Bones is a card that hasn't been getting nearly enough attention, not sure if it will be good enough for Modern but it's a great control card


    Chain to Rocks won't be played. If you are running white and red, Lightning Bolt and Path to Exile should be working out for you just fine.

    Ehrmagersh, a new deck is doing well. Breakz out de banhammerz!


    New World Order is a limit on the complexity of commons. It has nothing to do with power-level.

    Modern is not less diverse than Legacy. It has more aggro and ramp, the same amount of combo and midrange, and less control and tempo. It has almost has many viable decks. People who claim that Modern isn't diverse without even playing the format are just as bad as the people who say that Legacy is a turn 1 kill format.

    Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.

    Quote from Valanarch
    Has anyone considered Eyeblight's Ending as a 1 or 2 of in the deck? Just curious because it boosts Goyf another point and it's pretty rare that an Elf is the creature you need to deal with in Modern.


    The problem is that it isn't as good as the other options for 3 mana removal (Maelstrom Pulse, Dismember, Hero's Downfall, and Putrefy). And Putrefy isn't even played.


    I swear you're omnipresent sometimes Valanarch...

  • #11
    Quote from Valanarch
    I think you are wrong about most of these.

    Swan Song will see play, but most decks will still run Spell Pierce.

    Anger of the Gods is good but it isn't any better than Slagstorm as a 3 mana red sweeper.

    Hero's Downfall won't see play in major decks. Planeswalkers aren't much of a force in Modern, and most decks that want 3 mana planeswalker removal can run Maelstrom Pulse.

    Stormbreath Dragon will see play but only as a Thundermaw Hellkite replacement.

    Master of the Waves will not see play in Merfolk. Merfolk does not need a finisher, it costs too much mana for the deck, and you would be better off running more lords.

    Chained to Rocks is worse than Path to Exile. It can only be played at sorcery speed, you need a mountain at the time to do it (which, while easy to get, will not always be the case), can't be used as easily on turn 1, and they get their creature back if they destroy the land or enchantment (Abrupt Decay can't take out Path, but it can take out this).

    Glare of Heresy won't see play. It is a 2 mana piece of sorcery speed removal. Celestial Flare does a lot more at its cost and since almost everything that you would be targeting with this is a creature, Path to Exile is a lot better.

    Gainsay will not see play. For most blue spells that people would want to counter, there is Dispel. At the same mana cost, we have Negate. Gainsay is not nearly as good as those 2 cards.

    Dark Betrayal will not see play. For one mana black removal, Deathmark is better. After that, black has access to Victim of the Night, Doom Blade, Go For the Throat, and many others that are better than this.

    Peak Eruption will not see play. We already have Molten Rain, and it doesn't even see much play. Having a colorless mana instead of a red mana in the mana cost, being able to target basic mountains, and doing 1 more damage is not worth losing the ability to hit nonbasics.

    Hunt the Hunter will not see play. Mono-green does not exist in Modern. Neither does green-blue. Every other color pairing has better removal than this.

    Steam Augury will see play, but not in Ritual Gifts. If you hit a combo piece like Elesh Norn, your opponent will just put it in your hand. Steam Augury will see play, but the places where it will see play are WUR Midrange and possibly in WUR Control (replacing Sphinx's Revelation in the midrange version).


    I think you are right on all but one. Anger the Gods will be a sideboard card for Twin Exarch against Pod. It gets around the persist clause by exiling them.
  • #12
    Phyrexian Obliterator gets me Devotion 5?
  • #13
    Quote from forgedinhell
    Phyrexian Obliterator gets me Devotion 5?


    Four. Though whatever card you play with devotion (like the black god) will probably have at least one mana symbol in it's cc, to bump it up to 5+.

    Obliterator is probably one of the best devotion enablers around though. Along with stuff like Figure of Destiny and Reckoner.
  • #14
    Quote from BMillz1341

    Obliterator is probably one of the best devotion enablers around though. Along with stuff like Figure of Destiny and Reckoner.


    How is Figure of Destiny a devotion enabler?
  • #15
    Quote from Fruan
    How is Figure of Destiny a devotion enabler?


    Lol, true story. I was thinking of Demigod of Revenge. Not sure why I wrote Figure of Destiny. Must've been because of the hybrid costs.
  • #16
    Purphoros as a 1-of in Melira Pod? Turns Kitchen Finks into Murderous Redcap.
  • #17
    Quote from BMillz1341
    Four. Though whatever card you play with devotion (like the black god) will probably have at least one mana symbol in it's cc, to bump it up to 5+.

    Obliterator is probably one of the best devotion enablers around though. Along with stuff like Figure of Destiny and Reckoner.


    You forgot geralf's messenger
    Quote from Thilon
    Since we have a "dies to removal guy" post, I feel the need to point out what's been pointed out since the game began.

    Most things die to removal.

    Shocking, I know. It was a surprise to me as well. It's almost like it's a part of the game.


    Currently Playing

    Modern

    black mana Mono Black Infect black mana
    :symu::symb::symr: Grixis Control :symu::symb::symr:
  • #18
    Quote from LastLaugh
    You forgot geralf's messenger


    That is another good one. I'm sure there are several in the 2-slot as well.

    The problem is more that I'm not sure any of the devotion cards themselves are good enough to be modern-playable.
  • #19
    Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx will probably be the best Devotion card in Modern. I predict that Pod and GW Hatebears will pick it up and it will finally put Combo Elves on the map (everyone distracted by Nettle Sentinel and Beck // Call will be too distracted to deal with faster, more reliable Craterhoof Behemoth, and Elves goldfishes faster than Pod).

    Destructive Revelry is obviously awesome sideboard hate--it's a Naturalize with a player Shock attached!

    From my testing, Polukranos, World Eater still cracks the Top 10 Best Theros Cards for Modern (IMO) because it's a fatty that can kill stuff and outsize Goyf/Primeval Titan/etc. I predict play in GW Hatebears, Pod, BG Midrange, and Junk.

    Steam Augury is a fairly decent draw spell with crippling drawbacks against non-creature-based combo (at least, I keep losing against Scapeshift every time I resolve Steam Augury--it never gives me Cryptic Command or Tectonic Edge, and Sphinx's Revelation doesn't tend to resolve against them).

    Hammer of Purphoros miiiight see play somewhere as a 3-mana token spewer, and Spear of Heliod may sneak into Tokens or Soul Sisters somewhere.

    Xenagos has a lot of competition but should see some play in Jund/Zoo. Ashiok just might see play--he sucks against fast combo and Tron, and he's not at his best against aggro, but he keeps spewing out creatures against midrange and milling out heavy control is actually more realistic than you think (I suspect that Ashiok has to quickly die if the control player has faced Ashiok in previous games--Ashiok almost never gets to ult against them, but the threat of the ult is enough to distract control).

    Reaper of the Wild looks like a budget Thrun, the Last Troll.
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