Personally, I think Augur of Bolas is better. Putting cards into hand is more valuable than top-deck manipulation IMO.
I completely agree. Of cource their are decks that don't run enough spells and auger is just bad but Augur is much more effective in it's niche than Omenspeaker could ever hope to be. That being said in Omenreader will pop up alot of places you would never have seen auger.
But to be honest, thats not really the comparison we should be looking for. As others have said, Augury Owl is a better comparison. I would argue the Owl probably as being slightly better than this, due to looking one card deeper and having flying. The owl didn't see much play and as a result I don't think this will either
A 1/1 flyer is not good. Even in an agressive deck noone plays 1/1 flyers, and they are useless blockers. A turn 2 1/3 on the other hand can do a lot to curb aggro strategies. I expect to see Omenreader show up in superfriends as virtual CA and a blocker to defend walkers which is a role auger could never fulfill.
finally it comes down to comparison of power jace the mindsculptor vs tezzeret angent of bolas
honestly raw power wise tezzeret is better, his plus ability is far more powerfull gaining you card advantage while also digging 5 cards deep for the one you want. tezz minus ability was great at offense and defense (could even kill jace turn he came down)
and ultimate frequently kills but much early.
This is true. Tezzeret could win games the turn after he hit. His-1 was better than jace's in most circumstances as was his final just because it was so much easier to obtain. If his +1 was a +2 instead that also protected himself he would be banned... just like jace!
the tricky part is tezzeret requires specific things (artifacts) he almost always hits but could miss. he is more powerfull than jace in the value of his abilities.
but nowhere near as consitant, jace always nets cards on brainstorm, between unsummon and fateseal he has a wider net of protection. and his ultimate is very high power.
the driving point is jace is more powerfull for his flexibility and you will find this new wizard is also flexible
not to mention that agent locks you into 2 colors. Honestly there were plenty of absurd artifacts around at the time of tezzeret making his +1 quite powereful as fas as CA goes and usually the problem was more of a "I hit the wrong artifact" than a "I didn't hit an artifact". Honestly the reason jace's 0 is better is because it can grab cards to protect jace and ditch useless cards via fetch lands, while tezz just went and found you a sword, batterskull, or wurmcoil engine which are all great cards but none so good as an intact tezz and did nothing to fix an already bad hand. I think /the real issue is not so much that tezz was narrow (although he did force you to play a less interactive deck) but rather that Jace was just absurd. Even in an all artifact deck an argument could be made for playing jace over tezz. Certainly being narrow pidgeon holed tezz into a less interactive strategy (which is not true of auger) But Jace pidgeon holed an entire format. After jace rotated and non-jace decks emerged Tezzerator was one of the better decks (went undefeated at FNM regularly as in 2-0'd every opponent). But enough with the tangent I think where your comparison of tezz and auger go wrong is that auger fits into an already established archetype while tezzerate made it's own archetype. If you ever built a deck around auger you were playing him wrong. I realize what you are getting at is flexibility versus potential power but saying jace is good because he's "flexible" is as ridiculous as saying black lotus is good because it's flexible. Yes black lotus is flexible, but it's good because it's a ritual that nets you 3 god damn mana for a 0 mana investment. So in conclution I actually sort of agree with you so far as omenreader is concerned but I will never conceed that jace is better because he's less narrow. Elspeth vs tezz would have been a much better comparison or even elspeth vs Domri Rade.
Don't think it is fair to say one is better than the other in this situation
both have similar effects but depending on the deck you are running around them makes these two very different cards
Augur of Bolas is way better because it digs 3 deep and 80% of the time gets you a card. Early on if he misses it's quite bad, but later on at least he got rid of an upcoming land flood.
This just lets you (best case scenario) put two unneeded lands on the bottom of your library, you don't even get to draw. Worst case scenario you like the cards on top and you've just cast a vanilla 1/3 for 2
Still, if this is the best we have to work with, it'll get played anyway
I really hope we get a serum visions reprint. Wizards seem to have decided one mana cantrips aren't good for standard. Come on.
I'd rather have 1U functional Ponder instead. Anyways, I was never really much a fan of Augur. Throwing your Jaces and Aetherlings (of which you don't run many) to the bottom of your deck for a Think Twice, or SV is not a good play, unless you absolutely needed that wrath to save you. They both fulfill the same function - a value T2 wall. Augur, Wall of Omens, Sea Gate Oracle, Omenspeaker, they all fulfill the same role. Buying you time to get the part of the game where you're much better than your opponent while providing value at the same time.
I do not see a reason why this won't be a 4 of in every U based control deck. It smooths your draws, works great against aggro, mid-range, and even control. I doubt we're going to get a better 2 drop. Yes, worst case is you have 2 cards on top of your library that you want, but at least you get to pick which one you'd rather have next. That's worst case. Augur's worst case is FAR worse, and his best upside is not much higher (if at all).
I would play this in a control deck, but not as a 4-of because he doesn't replace himself so you're still casting a vanilla creature that will always have you set back a card against decks that can ignore a 1/3. I might play 2 main and 2 side if I was expecting a heavy aggro meta and I absolutly have to hit turn 4 verrdict. Other than that I'm probably just going to play azorious charm and syncopate instead.
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I'd rather have 1U functional Ponder instead. Anyways, I was never really much a fan of Augur. Throwing your Jaces and Aetherlings (of which you don't run many) to the bottom of your deck for a Think Twice, or SV is not a good play, unless you absolutely needed that wrath to save you. They both fulfill the same function - a value T2 wall. Augur, Wall of Omens, Sea Gate Oracle, Omenspeaker, they all fulfill the same role. Buying you time to get the part of the game where you're much better than your opponent while providing value at the same time.
I do not see a reason why this won't be a 4 of in every U based control deck. It smooths your draws, works great against aggro, mid-range, and even control. I doubt we're going to get a better 2 drop. Yes, worst case is you have 2 cards on top of your library that you want, but at least you get to pick which one you'd rather have next. That's worst case. Augur's worst case is FAR worse, and his best upside is not much higher (if at all).
I agree completely. The only way this doesn't see standard play is if there are no blue control decks (which would be a strange meta) or a different cmc 2 card gets printed in blue which is marginally better.
Shame this card isn't less splashible though. With thassa being a thing, I might have preferred a casting cost of UU. It would have also justified a small boost in the cards power like scry 3 instead of scry 2.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
- Manite
"not to mention that agent locks you into 2 colors. Honestly there were plenty of absurd artifacts around at the time of tezzeret making his +1 quite powereful as fas as CA goes and usually the problem was more of a "I hit the wrong artifact" than a "I didn't hit an artifact". Honestly the reason jace's 0 is better is because it can grab cards to protect jace and ditch useless cards via fetch lands, while tezz just went and found you a sword, batterskull, or wurmcoil engine which are all great cards but none so good as an intact tezz and did nothing to fix an already bad hand. I think /the real issue is not so much that tezz was narrow (although he did force you to play a less interactive deck) but rather that Jace was just absurd. Even in an all artifact deck an argument could be made for playing jace over tezz. Certainly being narrow pidgeon holed tezz into a less interactive strategy (which is not true of auger) But Jace pidgeon holed an entire format. After jace rotated and non-jace decks emerged Tezzerator was one of the better decks (went undefeated at FNM regularly as in 2-0'd every opponent). But enough with the tangent I think where your comparison of tezz and auger go wrong is that auger fits into an already established archetype while tezzerate made it's own archetype. If you ever built a deck around auger you were playing him wrong. I realize what you are getting at is flexibility versus potential power but saying jace is good because he's "flexible" is as ridiculous as saying black lotus is good because it's flexible. Yes black lotus is flexible, but it's good because it's a ritual that nets you 3 god damn mana for a 0 mana investment. So in conclution I actually sort of agree with you so far as omenreader is concerned but I will never conceed that jace is better because he's less narrow. Elspeth vs tezz would have been a much better comparison or even elspeth vs Domri Rade. "
but augur of bolas does warp your deck, you have to run a very high count of instants/sorceries to hit consistently just like tezzie required artifacts.
the other big thing people keep overlooking is a two lander with this new gal is so much better than a 2 lander with augur of bolas.
tezzeret is very powerfull but narrow, artifacts are good but a critical mass makes them a target.
jace the mindsculptor power is 0% derivied from his flexibility he was like batman. if commanding lead fateseal opponent out of game, if behind bounce to stabilize, if board parity brainstorm to advantage, he was good in every machup as against midrange he was a huge tempo play against control he was card advantage and a finisher, and aggro he at least dug for wrath.
im on a tangent again i apologize
the point i am trying to make is while augur has more raw power and potential upside (grab that wrath/sphinxrev/counter) he has downsides (at least 20 instance/sorc, can miss, cant dig for land) vs omen is the bedrock of consistency always greatly improving odds of curving out properly.
curving properly into turn 3 is so much more vital than some random extra spell.
and now we can run more detention spheres and jaces, and why not, we can even run creatures.
I'd play it. But I am hoping for better. Finding lands is very important early and that is where this is better. However any "draw a card" ability is super important for contol. It block voice fixes future draws and givea devotion.
What I hate when running augur is i can see 3 lands, while i need them. so a timely play (especially early game) is needed. This guy, can give me lands as well as any other thing i need.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
i need 4 ofs of this dude... and FOILS! i like the art!
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This has got to be one of the worst pieces of art in Magic cards over recent years. Geez. They have to launch an FNM promo ASAP so people can play with a version of this card that won't make my eyes burn.
That being said, I actually think this is better than Augur, for the sole fact that it won't tuck all your lands and wincons exactely when you need them, which the Augur often did.
I think that this card will probably see play in a lot of Standard decks simply because, as far as I know so far, there is no Augur of Bolas or Sea Gate Oracle or Augury Owl in Standard right now. I don't know enough to argue the benefits of any of those cards over any of the others, but if Omenspeaker helps fix draws while providing a solid early defense, and there is no competition for that slot in blue, then I think she will see play in Standard, at least.
the thing about augur is that a lot of the time playing him on turn 2 is a mistake because he pretty much puts your 3rd or 4th land drop on the bottom of your library. When put under pressure against agro decks when you really need a blocker, but also need your land drop augur doesn't really cut it. Aaaand that's why i'm favoring this card over augur
I don't see why it matters if it is better or worse than Augur of Bolas. Augur is rotating, so unless you're talking about how good they both are in Modern (and I don't think Augur sees much play in Modern anyway), the point of comparison is invalid. In Commander, you can just run both. So, how about we end the unnecessary conversation wherein we are comparing fresh apples to rotten oranges, and regard the card for what it can do?
Scry 2 is about 1 card, depending on when you want it. On turn 2, the extra card selection will allow you to tailor your subsequent turns and plays that much better. Later in the game, the value really depends on how many more turns you can expect the game to go. If you're facing down an activated Elspeth and 6 tokens, you'd probably want to just draw into a board wipe if possible (but Elspeth would still be there, so it's only so good), but if you're going to be able to turn this little girl into a chump block that cycled two lands off the top of your deck, she created time and value (by eliminating no value draws), making her a decent play.
Lastly, as a creature, she provides devotion. It's important to consider this, as it could be very relevant.
Other than that, this card will be a 4 of in every U based control deck. Obviously better than Augur, but the question is, is it better than Sea Gate Oracle? I think because she comes down a turn earlier, and Scry's 2, it makes up for the fact that oracle is 1 more and draws.
Do you know how good Augury Owl is? It's not very good. I think you need to work on your card evaluation skills. This is certainly not better than Augur or Sea Gate Oracle.
The owl was a 1/1. What makes SGO, AoB, etc. better is that they draw a card, yes, but they also block 1/x and 2/x aggro creatures. That's super helpful. Even so, with only filtering and no draw, I doubt this is more than fringe played.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
While getting your lands is good, this is worse than Augur of Bolas in most situations. But it is way better than Augury Owl since it actually blocks instead of just chump-blocking. Control decks need this sort of creature against those Rakdos Cackler and Burning-Tree Emissary.
I had to make an account because of how blown away I am by the fact that people think this card is better then augur. Give it a month or two, this card will not even see half the amount of play augur did. If you think a 1/3 without card advantage is going to be better than a 1/3 with card advantage then you do not understand magic.
Augur of Bolas is not guaranteed card advantage. It forces you to build your deck in a fashion that make it powerful. Fortunately, it's time in Standard allowed you to play it alongside Snapcaster Mage, another strong creature that moved you to play a high spell count, meaning the core you needed for the deck was much more sustainable. Ultimately, the argument is irrelevant because neither of them are going to be legal at the same time in Standard.
@tacketra: If you fail to see how scry 2 relates to card quality, which in turn can be translated to effective card advantage, maybe you should not be so hasty telling people they don't understand Magic.
You must be joking. A 1/3 with scry 2 for cmc 1 would be insane. That card would be comically above curve. No way wizards is ever printing that
Sage of Epityr is functionally very similar. It can dig for just as much yet hasn't seen much of any play.
Somehow, I don't think an extra 2 toughness would suddenly make the card fantastic. It's certainly not worth a whole extra mana. But it's reasonable to think at 1cmc the toughness would have to be smaller.
I don't even understand why the card has 3 toughness to begin with. Human wizards at low cmc are about as squishy as it gets.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
the thing about augur is that a lot of the time playing him on turn 2 is a mistake because he pretty much puts your 3rd or 4th land drop on the bottom of your library. When put under pressure against agro decks when you really need a blocker, but also need your land drop augur doesn't really cut it. Aaaand that's why i'm favoring this card over augur
Your deck should be randomly organized, so drawing off the top is the same as drawing off the bottom. Playing Augur on turn two does not make you any less likely to draw lands, unless you're taking for granted that holding back Augur means that you're going to cycle an A-charm or Think Twice.
It is pointless to argue if this is better then augur of B or not& cause it is. I also think it will beat oracle. You really want this in turn 2, and unless you have filled your two slots to the maximum and have nothing in the three slot, then this is it.
That's a good point, but it is entirely dependent on the meta if this sees play or not. Just cause owl didn't...
Ya, a 1/1 blue flyer with scry 3 wasn't going to be solid in an environment wherein the 1/1 white flyer drew you three cards. In terms of their defensive qualities, the higher toughness on Omenspeaker is probably more valuable than the flying on Augur Owl.
Sage of Epityr is functionally very similar. It can dig for just as much yet hasn't seen much of any play.
Somehow, I don't think an extra 2 toughness would suddenly make the card fantastic. It's certainly not worth a whole extra mana. But it's reasonable to think at 1cmc the toughness would have to be smaller.
I don't even understand why the card has 3 toughness to begin with. Human wizards at low cmc are about as squishy as it gets.
your comparing Index to Preordain. Index and similar effects only tell you how screwed you are over the next few turns. Scry 2 allows you to move unneeded cards to the bottom of your library allowing you to draw something different. And at 3 toughness and now you have a card that can block many of the aggro creatures and live, similar to what augur would often do.
Lol @ people who never played during Shards-Rise standard when Sea Gate Oracle was a house.
Sure, it cycled itself, but it also came down a turn later. Omenspeaker is value-town galore, saving you oodles of life (which is very necessary considering Thoughtseize, Shocks, and maybe Read the Bones, is around), and smooths/filters your draws. She's a house and will see a ton of play.
People saying Augur is leagues better are freaking blowing my mind here (never mind the people who say it's a bad card/costs too much who are getting ignored outright). That's such a complete joke I don't know what to say. In a dedicated Augur deck (ie one that bends over backward to even make it work, which by the way actually hurts the deck as it punishes you for playing things like Snapcaster, Resto, detention sphere, ect...) they are comparable at best and even then I could easily see an argument in favor of this card over Augur. In any other deck this card is leagues better. Augur has the chance of giving you a very specific set of cards. This card helps you find any type of card you need which all too often isn't an instant/sorcery. In many many matchup getting your land (say the fourth one you need to actually cast that wrath or another in the control mirror), or your planewalker, or your creature/enchantment, and yes in the end it can also help you find your instants/sorceries, is much more important.
Comparing this to Owl is also pretty clearly in this card's favor. Owl was only good for scry3, the body was pretty weak. This card has a very respectable 3 toughness on top of the scry2.
Sage of Epityr is functionally very similar. It can dig for just as much yet hasn't seen much of any play.
Ok, wow dude, just wow. Sage of Epityr? Really? Sage isn't Scry4 you know. You do understand that "Index" effects are not even remotely in the same league as Scry effects right?
I completely agree. Of cource their are decks that don't run enough spells and auger is just bad but Augur is much more effective in it's niche than Omenspeaker could ever hope to be. That being said in Omenreader will pop up alot of places you would never have seen auger.
A 1/1 flyer is not good. Even in an agressive deck noone plays 1/1 flyers, and they are useless blockers. A turn 2 1/3 on the other hand can do a lot to curb aggro strategies. I expect to see Omenreader show up in superfriends as virtual CA and a blocker to defend walkers which is a role auger could never fulfill.
This is true. Tezzeret could win games the turn after he hit. His-1 was better than jace's in most circumstances as was his final just because it was so much easier to obtain. If his +1 was a +2 instead that also protected himself he would be banned... just like jace!
not to mention that agent locks you into 2 colors. Honestly there were plenty of absurd artifacts around at the time of tezzeret making his +1 quite powereful as fas as CA goes and usually the problem was more of a "I hit the wrong artifact" than a "I didn't hit an artifact". Honestly the reason jace's 0 is better is because it can grab cards to protect jace and ditch useless cards via fetch lands, while tezz just went and found you a sword, batterskull, or wurmcoil engine which are all great cards but none so good as an intact tezz and did nothing to fix an already bad hand. I think /the real issue is not so much that tezz was narrow (although he did force you to play a less interactive deck) but rather that Jace was just absurd. Even in an all artifact deck an argument could be made for playing jace over tezz. Certainly being narrow pidgeon holed tezz into a less interactive strategy (which is not true of auger) But Jace pidgeon holed an entire format. After jace rotated and non-jace decks emerged Tezzerator was one of the better decks (went undefeated at FNM regularly as in 2-0'd every opponent). But enough with the tangent I think where your comparison of tezz and auger go wrong is that auger fits into an already established archetype while tezzerate made it's own archetype. If you ever built a deck around auger you were playing him wrong. I realize what you are getting at is flexibility versus potential power but saying jace is good because he's "flexible" is as ridiculous as saying black lotus is good because it's flexible. Yes black lotus is flexible, but it's good because it's a ritual that nets you 3 god damn mana for a 0 mana investment. So in conclution I actually sort of agree with you so far as omenreader is concerned but I will never conceed that jace is better because he's less narrow. Elspeth vs tezz would have been a much better comparison or even elspeth vs Domri Rade.
both have similar effects but depending on the deck you are running around them makes these two very different cards
I'd rather have 1U functional Ponder instead. Anyways, I was never really much a fan of Augur. Throwing your Jaces and Aetherlings (of which you don't run many) to the bottom of your deck for a Think Twice, or SV is not a good play, unless you absolutely needed that wrath to save you. They both fulfill the same function - a value T2 wall. Augur, Wall of Omens, Sea Gate Oracle, Omenspeaker, they all fulfill the same role. Buying you time to get the part of the game where you're much better than your opponent while providing value at the same time.
I do not see a reason why this won't be a 4 of in every U based control deck. It smooths your draws, works great against aggro, mid-range, and even control. I doubt we're going to get a better 2 drop. Yes, worst case is you have 2 cards on top of your library that you want, but at least you get to pick which one you'd rather have next. That's worst case. Augur's worst case is FAR worse, and his best upside is not much higher (if at all).
You must be joking. A 1/3 with scry 2 for cmc 1 would be insane. That card would be comically above curve. No way wizards is ever printing that
I agree completely. The only way this doesn't see standard play is if there are no blue control decks (which would be a strange meta) or a different cmc 2 card gets printed in blue which is marginally better.
Shame this card isn't less splashible though. With thassa being a thing, I might have preferred a casting cost of UU. It would have also justified a small boost in the cards power like scry 3 instead of scry 2.
- Manite
but augur of bolas does warp your deck, you have to run a very high count of instants/sorceries to hit consistently just like tezzie required artifacts.
the other big thing people keep overlooking is a two lander with this new gal is so much better than a 2 lander with augur of bolas.
tezzeret is very powerfull but narrow, artifacts are good but a critical mass makes them a target.
jace the mindsculptor power is 0% derivied from his flexibility he was like batman. if commanding lead fateseal opponent out of game, if behind bounce to stabilize, if board parity brainstorm to advantage, he was good in every machup as against midrange he was a huge tempo play against control he was card advantage and a finisher, and aggro he at least dug for wrath.
im on a tangent again i apologize
the point i am trying to make is while augur has more raw power and potential upside (grab that wrath/sphinxrev/counter) he has downsides (at least 20 instance/sorc, can miss, cant dig for land) vs omen is the bedrock of consistency always greatly improving odds of curving out properly.
curving properly into turn 3 is so much more vital than some random extra spell.
and now we can run more detention spheres and jaces, and why not, we can even run creatures.
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That being said, I actually think this is better than Augur, for the sole fact that it won't tuck all your lands and wincons exactely when you need them, which the Augur often did.
Scry 2 is about 1 card, depending on when you want it. On turn 2, the extra card selection will allow you to tailor your subsequent turns and plays that much better. Later in the game, the value really depends on how many more turns you can expect the game to go. If you're facing down an activated Elspeth and 6 tokens, you'd probably want to just draw into a board wipe if possible (but Elspeth would still be there, so it's only so good), but if you're going to be able to turn this little girl into a chump block that cycled two lands off the top of your deck, she created time and value (by eliminating no value draws), making her a decent play.
Lastly, as a creature, she provides devotion. It's important to consider this, as it could be very relevant.
Augury Owl
Do you know how good Augury Owl is? It's not very good. I think you need to work on your card evaluation skills. This is certainly not better than Augur or Sea Gate Oracle.
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@tacketra: If you fail to see how scry 2 relates to card quality, which in turn can be translated to effective card advantage, maybe you should not be so hasty telling people they don't understand Magic.
Sage of Epityr is functionally very similar. It can dig for just as much yet hasn't seen much of any play.
Somehow, I don't think an extra 2 toughness would suddenly make the card fantastic. It's certainly not worth a whole extra mana. But it's reasonable to think at 1cmc the toughness would have to be smaller.
I don't even understand why the card has 3 toughness to begin with. Human wizards at low cmc are about as squishy as it gets.
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Your deck should be randomly organized, so drawing off the top is the same as drawing off the bottom. Playing Augur on turn two does not make you any less likely to draw lands, unless you're taking for granted that holding back Augur means that you're going to cycle an A-charm or Think Twice.
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Ya, a 1/1 blue flyer with scry 3 wasn't going to be solid in an environment wherein the 1/1 white flyer drew you three cards. In terms of their defensive qualities, the higher toughness on Omenspeaker is probably more valuable than the flying on Augur Owl.
your comparing Index to Preordain. Index and similar effects only tell you how screwed you are over the next few turns. Scry 2 allows you to move unneeded cards to the bottom of your library allowing you to draw something different. And at 3 toughness and now you have a card that can block many of the aggro creatures and live, similar to what augur would often do.
Sure, it cycled itself, but it also came down a turn later. Omenspeaker is value-town galore, saving you oodles of life (which is very necessary considering Thoughtseize, Shocks, and maybe Read the Bones, is around), and smooths/filters your draws. She's a house and will see a ton of play.
Comparing this to Owl is also pretty clearly in this card's favor. Owl was only good for scry3, the body was pretty weak. This card has a very respectable 3 toughness on top of the scry2.
Ok, wow dude, just wow. Sage of Epityr? Really? Sage isn't Scry4 you know. You do understand that "Index" effects are not even remotely in the same league as Scry effects right?