That's talking through one's ass pricing unless one has a particularly special relationship with a high-volume store. Many stores are selling off a percentage of their total allotment at retail--around $170--to their regular customers and using the rest for pack sales/draft/sealed at $10/pack. Many of these stores are limiting sales to 1 box/person so as not to alienate their money customers. I can think of absolutely no viable reason for any retailer to be selling anyone multiple boxes below retail. I would go so far as to say that I simply do not believe the poster's assertion as it fits a pattern of posts of questionable veracity from said source. Of course, said poster is welcome to provide concrete proof of said purchase for other posters to verify.
My LGS is selling boxes for $149.99. Maybe you shouldn't assume you know every detail of anything Magic related?
But to be fair, the owner is an exception in that his store is ridiculously successful and is located in an area where property is exceedingly cheap. Plus, he's pretty cool in general. Also, I'm not sure that he is allowing people to buy multiple boxes. No one asked as far as I know.
EDIT: I just get really annoyed by people who immediately dismiss people because of a vague feeling of themselves knowing something. Kinda jumped the gun.
I got the last box available at my local store for $175 a couple weeks back. A lot of great cards to cycle into our commander decks if we manage to pull them.
i hate that cheapest i could find was 220$ CAD (txs in)... and i could only get one. may be 2 (not even sure) a lot of stores can't even sell boxes and limit to 6 boosters. at ridiculous price.
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Yeah. Not every store is out to take advantage of people. I know my friends store will be drafting with mm. And i know they sold boxes at the msrp. Packs at or just below msrp while supplies last. Some owners just know how to take care of their customers, which is why they are and have been in business for so long.
I don't know who told the one guy 2 waves but the 4 shops near me all say a single print run and getting remotely close to msrp makes u lucky. We got 2 at $150 out of sheer luck but all 4 stores got under 16 boxes 2 only got 1 case and can't get more all sold out in less than a week. No draft to be played here so kinda sad about that. But I say wait to flip them I can see this getting nuts in price.
My LGS finally got the number of how many they were being alloted last night and started taking preorders. The owner wouldn't tell me how many he's getting but I got a box @$165 paid for. Sucks he wouldn't let me get a second box like he promised me, guess he's getting way less than he originally thought.
The local shop called me about MM was on a sign up list for it. They wanted 250 a box plus tax. I told them thanks but no thanks at that price. Only handful of cards I want out of the set. Since my group is casual legacy at 250 a box I be better off getting play set of FoW. I also think a lot of people driving the price up are trying to flip it for a profit and not keep the cards. So I think the singles I want won't be horrible in price in 2-3 months from now after the market is flooded with cards by people trying to make a quick buck.
Seems like there is a lot of worry going around about the limited status of this product. So much that people have also forgotten about a GP with this as the draft format. The GP is also in one of the most accessible locations in terms of cheap as hell air tickets which can really only promise a good showing in participants. Regardless of store allocations, the product was still intended to be opened in a rather high number. Many players already playing modern have what they need which also simulated as virtual cap on single demand.
Seems like there is a lot of worry going around about the limited status of this product. So much that people have also forgotten about a GP with this as the draft format. The GP is also in one of the most accessible locations in terms of cheap as hell air tickets which can really only promise a good showing in participants. Regardless of store allocations, the product was still intended to be opened in a rather high number. Many players already playing modern have what they need which also simulated as virtual cap on single demand.
I'll be honest:
This is the most offensive answer in the whole thread.
I'll be honest:
This is the most offensive answer in the whole thread.
Book a plane and hotel? I'm insulted.
Maybe you should not take my remark about limited product availability personally?
I did not say just book a flight and hotel to pick up the cards. I merely implied that the sky is not falling nor is this product likely to be as limited as many people seem to think. Second allocations are quite possible, simply that the product is also in production with an open event as a GP in a accessible location for many grinders.
Unless Wizards simply forgot about something as big as a GP when printing this product, I am quite skeptical that premier stores will only get a single allocation of this product.
Maybe you should not take my remark about limited product availability personally?
I did not say just book a flight and hotel to pick up the cards. I merely implied that the sky is not falling nor is this product likely to be as limited as many people seem to think. Second allocations are quite possible, simply that the product is also in production with an open event as a GP in a accessible location for many grinders.
Unless Wizards simply forgot about something as big as a GP when printing this product, I am quite skeptical that premier stores will only get a single allocation of this product.
More and more stores are talking about multiple shipments and product outside the initial WPN allocation from Wizards. Distributors seem to be totally ignored in the frenzy.
FYI - 3 nights in vegas + airfare is cheaper than a single box of MM at StarCityGames right now... doesn't seem like that big of a deal when put into that context.
I know my local store is getting 8 boxes. Not selling any whole boxes to anyone. Five or six (not sure till I get into the store to make arrangements) are being reserved for drafts, with the rest being sold at MSRP, with a max per customer per week to insure everyone gets a fair shot.
I wouldn't be surprised if this first wave is smallish, then the GP, then they distribute the remainder of the production run as a second wave
More and more stores are talking about multiple shipments and product outside the initial WPN allocation from Wizards. Distributors seem to be totally ignored in the frenzy.
FYI - 3 nights in vegas + airfare is cheaper than a single box of MM at StarCityGames right now... doesn't seem like that big of a deal when put into that context.
Really? I'm skeptical about that statement. It greatly depends on where you are. Someone living on the East Coast, booking for the GP tonight, would be spending at least twice the price of a MM Box on SCG (rough numbers taken from Orbitz, Expedia, and Travelocity; dates are 6/7 to 6/10, 1 ticket, 1 room). Scheduling earlier than now may have cost less, but I can't test that.
Really? I'm skeptical about that statement. It greatly depends on where you are. Someone living on the East Coast, booking for the GP tonight, would be spending at least twice the price of a MM Box on SCG (rough numbers taken from Orbitz, Expedia, and Travelocity; dates are 6/7 to 6/10, 1 ticket, 1 room). Scheduling earlier than now may have cost less, but I can't test that.
There are a number of airlines that fly to Vegas and Vegas only from various locations in the US and that is the only place they fly to, tickets through these companies are super cheap, even at the last minute you are often looking at about $150-$200 round trip...
If you can get a box for anything less than $250 at this point, jump on it (I can't afford it). The set is a limited run that is designed to be drafted - finding these boxes five years from now for anything less than $500 is going to be impossible, and it would not surprise me at all if these jump into quadruple digits within the next decade.
If you can get a box for anything less than $250 at this point, jump on it (I can't afford it). The set is a limited run that is designed to be drafted - finding these boxes five years from now for anything less than $500 is going to be impossible, and it would not surprise me at all if these jump into quadruple digits within the next decade.
If Modern Masters 2 is released? Another print of Goyf, Bob etc? I think this statement is a little far fetched.
Maybe you should not take my remark about limited product availability personally?
I did not say just book a flight and hotel to pick up the cards. I merely implied that the sky is not falling nor is this product likely to be as limited as many people seem to think. Second allocations are quite possible, simply that the product is also in production with an open event as a GP in a accessible location for many grinders.
Unless Wizards simply forgot about something as big as a GP when printing this product, I am quite skeptical that premier stores will only get a single allocation of this product.
It isn't Draft. The Vegas GP is actually Sealed MM, with 4 MM draft side events during the weekend. The expected turnout is a minimum of 2K people. That means a minimum of 12K packs of MM being cracked in just the main event. But then you have a MM Sealed preview Friday, and another on Saturday and Sunday each with a cap of 256 people. And then you have the draft events. 4 drafts split between Saturday and Sunday, maxing out at 128 each. And finally you have the 3 Modern Mini Masters tourneys split up 1 on each day with a cap of 256. If they have 50% turnout on each side event, that would add up to these numbers of packs cracked if I'm not mistaken in my math.
2304 Sealed side
576 Draft side
446 Modern Mini Masters
That means at a very low turnout for this tournament, we can easily expect 15,326 packs of MM to be cracked. That is 639 boxes of product at a very very conservative estimation. I'd say they are probably prepared in case the turnout ends up at around 4K people, which means at least 27,000 packs of Modern Masters should be at the tournament. That's over 1100 boxes. And who knows, maybe they are prepared for a 5K+ tournament. Meaning an additional 250 boxes. All of this isn't taking into account the number of packs/boxes for prizes as well (a slim number in comparison). And then there is the additional amount of packs for drafting Day 2.
I'd say that's a decent amount of product wouldn't you? This is only one GP. How many boxes of this stuff are being opened throughout the world?
Crunching the numbers like that really puts into perspective the sheer number of cards that will be dumped into the format over the next few weeks. A LOT.
That's actually a piddling amount of product as far as availability of Modern staples is concerned.
Like already mentioned, ~1000 boxes equals ~50 playsets of Bob and Goyf. Which is what, a mid-sized town worth of Magic players?
Certainly it remains to be seen how much product there is to go around but the GP is a poor example.
That is for a low GP turn out. Consider now, that my premier store which is a small premier store has a first allocation of 18 boxes. Some smaller towns have 2 premier stores and many towns have 3+ premier stores and that is just in the NW region of the US.
It is not only about the amount of product being opened, but also the demand in probably the least popular format outside of vintage. The limited availability of this product is more than likely being greatly exaggerated when you start looking at those numbers.
More and more stores are talking about multiple shipments and product outside the initial WPN allocation from Wizards. Distributors seem to be totally ignored in the frenzy.
FYI - 3 nights in vegas + airfare is cheaper than a single box of MM at StarCityGames right now... doesn't seem like that big of a deal when put into that context.
$300, is what 3 Tarmogoyfs or 4 Liliana's and 1 Clique?
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Those making comments about cheap Las Vegas Hotel/Airfare - that's just not happening for the GP. The GP falls on the same weekend as Electric Daisy Carnival, ergo all the hotel rooms are either way hiked in price, or booked.
My store was able to acquire 36 boxes, 18 of which are being presold at $190. He had no trouble getting product.
I wouldn't call that "no trouble getting product." My LGS had no trouble getting RTR/GTC/DGM, the initial shipment of each was over fifty CASES, and if they had wanted to buy even more, they could have. Access to 36 boxes (6 cases) is a tiny amount and assures that there will not be enough to go around.
Also there is a lot of misinformation in this thread. The WOTC allotment is 18 boxes (432 packs, or 3 cases). This is a mortal lock. Bob's Gateway Store gets this, same as Star City Games. WOTC does not deviate from their limits. The distributors, however, are permitted to allocate their product according to the stores that pick them for prereleases and do volume business with them, etc. There is no "40 box first wave" as such. A store might happen to be allocated 22 boxes from their distributor (which larger stores very well may be) plus their 18 from WOTC. I've heard horror stories already of relatively large stores being told they are only getting a case or two from their main distributor. Finally, there is no second wave at all, that is complete bunk. Stores have been given a shipment schedule that runs through M14 and FTV20 and it doesn't include a wave 2 of MM.
WOTC should have printed this like any other set. It would have sold fine. The limited printing is just service to the reactionary/speculative crowd that caused us to be stuck with the Reserved List. WOTC wants to make sure they won't squeal too loudly at this wholesale reprint of the format (or near enough). Then they can get on with bigger reprint sets in the future.
Those making comments about cheap Las Vegas Hotel/Airfare - that's just not happening for the GP. The GP falls on the same weekend as Electric Daisy Carnival, ergo all the hotel rooms are either way hiked in price, or booked.
EDC was my reason for checking the prices, they were still cheap even with those events going on. Hotel costs are another thing. I did not check them since I have a place to stay. However when I have booked them in the past, they have still been cheap.
the argument is not about what it cheaper, the argument is that this GP is bound to have an expected turn out that is rather large given that prices to attend in Vegas are cheaper all around than say a GP in Miami. Which ultimately means more packs of this limited product are opened which means more cards in circulation for those wanting copies.
EDC was my reason for checking the prices, they were still cheap even with those events going on. Hotel costs are another thing. I did not check them since I have a place to stay. However when I have booked them in the past, they have still been cheap.
the argument is not about what it cheaper, the argument is that this GP is bound to have an expected turn out that is rather large given that prices to attend in Vegas are cheaper all around than say a GP in Miami. Which ultimately means more packs of this limited product are opened which means more cards in circulation for those wanting copies.
Let's say the sealed tournament gets a turnout of ten thousand players, which would be absurd.
That's sixty thousand sealed packs.
That would still only mean enough cards in circulation for a few hundred people to recieve playsets of the rares/mythics.
Rares and mythics aren't the only thing in this set.
Exactly. And people keep forgetting that a large majority of modern players already have all their playsets of the best cards. You'll get some current players wanting some number of cards with the new art, but it won't be all that many. All of this new product isn't to give old players more cards, but to allow new players to join in. And yes there are a ton of uncommon and commons that are being reprinted as well.
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My LGS is selling boxes for $149.99. Maybe you shouldn't assume you know every detail of anything Magic related?
But to be fair, the owner is an exception in that his store is ridiculously successful and is located in an area where property is exceedingly cheap. Plus, he's pretty cool in general. Also, I'm not sure that he is allowing people to buy multiple boxes. No one asked as far as I know.
EDIT: I just get really annoyed by people who immediately dismiss people because of a vague feeling of themselves knowing something. Kinda jumped the gun.
RGWNaya BurnRGW+++RGWKiki ComboRGW
UGInfectUG+++++++++.++++++++UGMerfolkUG
GGNykthos WaveGG++++++++++GGStompyGG
BRVampiresBR+++++++.+++++++BRGoblinsBR
WGBogglesWG+++++++++++++CRSkred RedCR
UBRGDredgeUBRG++++++++++BB8 RackBB
URWJeskaiURW+++.++UBRGrixis DelverUBR
URStormUR++++++++UWGBant CompanyUWG
WUBRGHumansWUBRG+CCEldrazi TronCC
Standard: GWRU 4C Collected Company
Modern: GUWRB Bloom Titan
Legacy: BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH :
GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED
GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA
UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED
UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY
B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE
R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
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I'll be honest:
This is the most offensive answer in the whole thread.
Book a plane and hotel? I'm insulted.
Maybe you should not take my remark about limited product availability personally?
I did not say just book a flight and hotel to pick up the cards. I merely implied that the sky is not falling nor is this product likely to be as limited as many people seem to think. Second allocations are quite possible, simply that the product is also in production with an open event as a GP in a accessible location for many grinders.
Unless Wizards simply forgot about something as big as a GP when printing this product, I am quite skeptical that premier stores will only get a single allocation of this product.
More and more stores are talking about multiple shipments and product outside the initial WPN allocation from Wizards. Distributors seem to be totally ignored in the frenzy.
FYI - 3 nights in vegas + airfare is cheaper than a single box of MM at StarCityGames right now... doesn't seem like that big of a deal when put into that context.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
I wouldn't be surprised if this first wave is smallish, then the GP, then they distribute the remainder of the production run as a second wave
Really? I'm skeptical about that statement. It greatly depends on where you are. Someone living on the East Coast, booking for the GP tonight, would be spending at least twice the price of a MM Box on SCG (rough numbers taken from Orbitz, Expedia, and Travelocity; dates are 6/7 to 6/10, 1 ticket, 1 room). Scheduling earlier than now may have cost less, but I can't test that.
Thanks goes to SpiderBoy4 for this banner. Check out the following thread link for more: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=91142
There are a number of airlines that fly to Vegas and Vegas only from various locations in the US and that is the only place they fly to, tickets through these companies are super cheap, even at the last minute you are often looking at about $150-$200 round trip...
If Modern Masters 2 is released? Another print of Goyf, Bob etc? I think this statement is a little far fetched.
It isn't Draft. The Vegas GP is actually Sealed MM, with 4 MM draft side events during the weekend. The expected turnout is a minimum of 2K people. That means a minimum of 12K packs of MM being cracked in just the main event. But then you have a MM Sealed preview Friday, and another on Saturday and Sunday each with a cap of 256 people. And then you have the draft events. 4 drafts split between Saturday and Sunday, maxing out at 128 each. And finally you have the 3 Modern Mini Masters tourneys split up 1 on each day with a cap of 256. If they have 50% turnout on each side event, that would add up to these numbers of packs cracked if I'm not mistaken in my math.
2304 Sealed side
576 Draft side
446 Modern Mini Masters
That means at a very low turnout for this tournament, we can easily expect 15,326 packs of MM to be cracked. That is 639 boxes of product at a very very conservative estimation. I'd say they are probably prepared in case the turnout ends up at around 4K people, which means at least 27,000 packs of Modern Masters should be at the tournament. That's over 1100 boxes. And who knows, maybe they are prepared for a 5K+ tournament. Meaning an additional 250 boxes. All of this isn't taking into account the number of packs/boxes for prizes as well (a slim number in comparison). And then there is the additional amount of packs for drafting Day 2.
I'd say that's a decent amount of product wouldn't you? This is only one GP. How many boxes of this stuff are being opened throughout the world?
Crunching the numbers like that really puts into perspective the sheer number of cards that will be dumped into the format over the next few weeks. A LOT.
That is for a low GP turn out. Consider now, that my premier store which is a small premier store has a first allocation of 18 boxes. Some smaller towns have 2 premier stores and many towns have 3+ premier stores and that is just in the NW region of the US.
It is not only about the amount of product being opened, but also the demand in probably the least popular format outside of vintage. The limited availability of this product is more than likely being greatly exaggerated when you start looking at those numbers.
Hazezon Tamar EDH
$300, is what 3 Tarmogoyfs or 4 Liliana's and 1 Clique?
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
I wouldn't call that "no trouble getting product." My LGS had no trouble getting RTR/GTC/DGM, the initial shipment of each was over fifty CASES, and if they had wanted to buy even more, they could have. Access to 36 boxes (6 cases) is a tiny amount and assures that there will not be enough to go around.
Also there is a lot of misinformation in this thread. The WOTC allotment is 18 boxes (432 packs, or 3 cases). This is a mortal lock. Bob's Gateway Store gets this, same as Star City Games. WOTC does not deviate from their limits. The distributors, however, are permitted to allocate their product according to the stores that pick them for prereleases and do volume business with them, etc. There is no "40 box first wave" as such. A store might happen to be allocated 22 boxes from their distributor (which larger stores very well may be) plus their 18 from WOTC. I've heard horror stories already of relatively large stores being told they are only getting a case or two from their main distributor. Finally, there is no second wave at all, that is complete bunk. Stores have been given a shipment schedule that runs through M14 and FTV20 and it doesn't include a wave 2 of MM.
WOTC should have printed this like any other set. It would have sold fine. The limited printing is just service to the reactionary/speculative crowd that caused us to be stuck with the Reserved List. WOTC wants to make sure they won't squeal too loudly at this wholesale reprint of the format (or near enough). Then they can get on with bigger reprint sets in the future.
EDC was my reason for checking the prices, they were still cheap even with those events going on. Hotel costs are another thing. I did not check them since I have a place to stay. However when I have booked them in the past, they have still been cheap.
the argument is not about what it cheaper, the argument is that this GP is bound to have an expected turn out that is rather large given that prices to attend in Vegas are cheaper all around than say a GP in Miami. Which ultimately means more packs of this limited product are opened which means more cards in circulation for those wanting copies.
Let's say the sealed tournament gets a turnout of ten thousand players, which would be absurd.
That's sixty thousand sealed packs.
That would still only mean enough cards in circulation for a few hundred people to recieve playsets of the rares/mythics.
Drop in the bucket.
Exactly. And people keep forgetting that a large majority of modern players already have all their playsets of the best cards. You'll get some current players wanting some number of cards with the new art, but it won't be all that many. All of this new product isn't to give old players more cards, but to allow new players to join in. And yes there are a ton of uncommon and commons that are being reprinted as well.