I know that Terminate as a card, but costing a card UB as opposed to RB makes it a very different card. Each color has strengths and weaknesses, and changing one of the colors of a card fundamentally changes the way it plays and how strong it is. As an arrogant moron, that is probably a bit beyond you.
Also, there has never been a reason you can't duplicate an effect on a different card.
Yes, Naturalize and Disenchant both exist. With that said, I don't think WOTC would make a functional reprint of Terminate with a blue cost as it doesn't feel flavor appropriate. Also, Terminate is not Disenchant. While both are common, I feel like Terminate has solidified it's role for what it does and won't be functionally reprinted in other colors. They may do something similar and more in line with the guild, which someone gave a good example of.
if anything is getting "hosed" its control in general, and even if dimir is good in limited and hardly any new cards have been spoiled, control getting screwed is still hugely relevant to U/B's constructed M.O.
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If my math is correct. 80/166 Is *almost* half way. Or am I wrong? Yes I know we still need the commons/uncommons etc...but I think Dimir will get some justice! It'd be great to see some uncommon Dimir jank be tossed out...then we laugh at Gruul and Boros! I did sign up with Dimir for my LGS prerelease event....just cause EVERYONE has gone Boros so far...pffft....losers.
R&D have positioned the Gruul as Ravnica's 'trailer trash', flavor-wise, but on the basis of cards, that dubious honor goes to the Dimir. The unfeasibility of directly attacking the other guy's library in increments (e.g. not Painter's Stone, not TurboFog) has been time-tested, yet they persist.
The pair also got a raw deal in Shadowmoor and Alara--more of the same !@#$. Of all the occasions to be dragging one's ass, multicolor blocks are the worst!
Anyone care to chime in as to why Selesnya, on the other hand, has been Spike as phüdge for so long?
I know that Terminate as a card, but costing a card UB as opposed to RB makes it a very different card. Each color has strengths and weaknesses, and changing one of the colors of a card fundamentally changes the way it plays and how strong it is. As an arrogant moron, that is probably a bit beyond you.
Also, there has never been a reason you can't duplicate an effect on a different card.
Enchantment removal is a Green mechanic.
Enchantment removal is a White mechanic.
So Naturalize and Disenchant existing side by side.
Killing Creatures is a Black mechanic.
Hosing Regeneration is a Red mechanic (sorta).
NEITHER OF THESE IS BLUE.
You have my personal guarantee that some form of U/B/x control will be a dominant deck in Standard before Innistrad rotates. Esper is already a tier one deck, and it's going to get stronger when Dragon's Maze comes out.
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Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not watching.
he's right, at my LGS, Dimir won 70% of limited events, even when forced. Boros is overrated(overdrafted/oversealed) :p.
Dimir mythic is going to be worth it; mark my words. WOtC made us dissapointed because they were waiting for this moment.(this prediction better be right, so far today, 80% have been correct)
R&D have positioned the Gruul as Ravnica's 'trailer trash', flavor-wise, but on the basis of cards, that dubious honor goes to the Dimir. The unfeasibility of directly attacking the other guy's library in increments (e.g. not Painter's Stone, not TurboFog) has been time-tested, yet they persist.
The pair also got a raw deal in Shadowmoor and Alara--more of the same !@#$. Of all the occasions to be dragging one's donkey, multicolor blocks are the worst!
Anyone care to chime in as to why Selesnya, on the other hand, has been Spike as phüdge for so long?
they have sigara, they have blitz, they shalt stay spike FOREVER, MUAHAHAHAHAAHAHA.
by trailer thrash, you mean junk, right?
has anyone tried grixis mill?
suprisingly, recipe for disaster(izzet) mind drinkers(dimir) and feisty guys(rakdos) work well together.
how? izzet does the removal, rakdos guys are used to block opponents's force or swing, Dimir is there to support the blitz of Rakdos and removing threats with mill. result? EPIC WIN(you do need some mulligan skill)
Meanwhiile Red has no color identity or real power. You have Liliana one of the best cards printed in years.
Red may still be looking for its identity after 20 years, but it sure is smashing a lot of face in the meantime. How can you look at current formats and say Red has no real power? Red is pretty dominant in Standard, and the #1 defining-spell/best removal card in Modern is Lightning Bolt. If you're talking about Legacy and below then Blue is the overwhelming color and the other 4 are all quite equal in coming at 2nd place.
If my math is correct. 80/166 Is *almost* half way. Or am I wrong? Yes I know we still need the commons/uncommons etc...but I think Dimir will get some justice! It'd be great to see some uncommon Dimir jank be tossed out...then we laugh at Gruul and Boros! I did sign up with Dimir for my LGS prerelease event....just cause EVERYONE has gone Boros so far...pffft....losers.
Shocklands don't count, so we're already past the halfway point (78/156).
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You have my personal guarantee that some form of U/B/x control will be a dominant deck in Standard before Innistrad rotates. Esper is already a tier one deck, and it's going to get stronger when Dragon's Maze comes out.
Eh, Esper is more of a Tier 2 deck right now, alongside the demoted Jund control and the ascending Bant mindrange. Its popularity cannot match that of the cheap mono-red aggro decks, the slick Junk reanimator builds, or the WUR midrange decks that are overrated, but comforting and proven.
And Dimir's color combo is nowhere else in the metagame outside of Esper, so the overall picture is quite bleak.
Red may still be looking for its identity after 20 years, but it sure is smashing a lot of face in the meantime. How can you look at current formats and say Red has no real power? Red is pretty dominant in Standard, and the #1 defining-spell/best removal card in Modern is Lightning Bolt. If you're talking about Legacy and below then Blue is the overwhelming color and the other 4 are all quite equal in coming at 2nd place.
I largely agree. You could maybe say Red is slightly worse than the other three. It has two good tricks, Lightning Bolt and Goblins. It also has some mediocre fast mana tricks that lead to stupid gimmick decks like Charbelcher.
A fun way to think about it, is to cripple red in Legacy you would have to ban only two cards, Lightning Bolt and Goblin Ringleader. (or Lackey, either works). To cripple white you would just need to ban StP and Stoneforge Mystic. Black/Green, you kill Deathrite Shaman, Dark Ritual, Tarmogoyf and maybe a couple of other cards.
To cripple blue you would need to ban all cards with subtype Island. Probably the easiest way to actually get the job done.
There's a reason every single blue dual land costs significantly more than every single non blue dual land. All of them.
Dimir is already very good although it's cards seemed better suited for limited with all the cipher spells and semi two-for-ones the entail all encapsulated in a set with mostly conditional removal.
Hopefully Dragon's Maze will give them the tools they need to shine outside of limited: the milling subtheme just doesn't cut it on it's own and the intended support for it is lacking due to Lazav, Dimir Mastermind, Consuming Aberration etc... not being quite good enough on their own due to consistency issues (sometimes Lazav might turn into a gigantic beast with hexproof and win you the game but that's not something to bet on honestly.)
If my math is correct. 80/166 Is *almost* half way. Or am I wrong? Yes I know we still need the commons/uncommons etc...but I think Dimir will get some justice! It'd be great to see some uncommon Dimir jank be tossed out...then we laugh at Gruul and Boros! I did sign up with Dimir for my LGS prerelease event....just cause EVERYONE has gone Boros so far...pffft....losers.
Shocklands don't count, so we're already past the halfway point (78/156).
156/2=78 I think we both can agree on the possibilty of some Dimir love....I got beat to @&%* tonight by damn Thragtusk/Restoration Angel...blah...
Im really hoping the dimir mythic is a hexproof guy that lets you encode your opponents spells. Either that or a really awesome mythic instant card with cipher.
If the store owner says that I can't trade in the premises, I'll just go outside. If he says that I can't trade within 10m of his premises, I'll go to 11 meters. If he says that he doesn't want to see me trading, I will put a basket over his head and continue trading.
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Ultimate Ultimate Price
BBUU
sorcery
Target player sacrifices all his monocolored creatures, another target player sacrifices all his multicolored creatures.
Brainfreeze
UUBB (yeah I now how to balance costs like a wizard)
Enchantment
Whenever an opponent draws a card, he grinds (reveal land card and mill stuff)
I really like those, especially the first one, it would be great to see them in the set.
Unfortunately dimir has definitely gotten the short end of the stick. Even in block it's not very playable. I do play a grixis control deck that is quite competitive with consuming abberation as the finisher. It's been doing wuite well.
But I feel that the thing missing from UB is a cheap two for one. Azorious can wipe the field for 4 mana with supreme verdict. Dimir can bounce a creature and force a sacrifice for 5 mana with far//away.
Yea that's fair.
However in block at least, grixis is very powerful against everything but aggro. If we get a spell like infest it might become one of the decks to beat.
We still need a dimir rare and mythic, as well as 2 black rares and i believe 2 blue rares, unless one has already been spoiled.
So don't worry too much, we might get some good stuff.
But it could still be stupid mill cards, that don't effect the board state.
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
if anything is getting "hosed" its control in general, and even if dimir is good in limited and hardly any new cards have been spoiled, control getting screwed is still hugely relevant to U/B's constructed M.O.
exactly this
here in this thread is a bunch of talk about how dimir is getting screwed, and to a degree you are right. however, its only the tip of the iceberg. Control is getting dicked way too much at the moment and the fact that dimir is UB, which are the two colors most typed as being "the control colors" lends to the idea that dimir is getting ripped off.
The fact is, control sucks in standard. every iteration you see of control is one of the following:
Bant: this has evolved from being control to being a more mid-range deck using thragtusk to stall
America: this has evolved in a flash deck thats more tempo than true control
Esper: the only true control deck viable in standard. it hasn't won any major events since its conception
Looking at these forms of "control" its clear that the only one sporting U/B is the only one which is actually control. The fact here is that U/B control isn't that good. its outclassed by W/U in every way. W/U plays control better whilst still being tempo based in RTR block. U/B has gotten treated terribly with situational removal and awful forced mill.
Dragon's maze isn't going to bring anything to U/B to make it playable. If it was, it would have already been spoiled by wizards to show the jaded control players that they haven't been forgotten
Worst part is black keeps getting the very worse because of it's allies, either because U is too overpowered or because R is unpredictable and they have to be extra careful what they give it, being a black mage is suffering.
Can't wait for the next Torment.
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Yes sir, I take fantasy art and character design commissions, PM me for rates.
Yes, Naturalize and Disenchant both exist. With that said, I don't think WOTC would make a functional reprint of Terminate with a blue cost as it doesn't feel flavor appropriate. Also, Terminate is not Disenchant. While both are common, I feel like Terminate has solidified it's role for what it does and won't be functionally reprinted in other colors. They may do something similar and more in line with the guild, which someone gave a good example of.
—Karn, silver golem
Instant
Destroy target creature with converted mana cost equal to or less than X, where X is the number of card types among cards in all graveyards.
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
R&D have positioned the Gruul as Ravnica's 'trailer trash', flavor-wise, but on the basis of cards, that dubious honor goes to the Dimir. The unfeasibility of directly attacking the other guy's library in increments (e.g. not Painter's Stone, not TurboFog) has been time-tested, yet they persist.
The pair also got a raw deal in Shadowmoor and Alara--more of the same !@#$. Of all the occasions to be dragging one's ass, multicolor blocks are the worst!
Anyone care to chime in as to why Selesnya, on the other hand, has been Spike as phüdge for so long?
Nope. The average of the win-rates should be 50%, as each match has 1 winner and 1 loser.
Enchantment removal is a Green mechanic.
Enchantment removal is a White mechanic.
So Naturalize and Disenchant existing side by side.
Killing Creatures is a Black mechanic.
Hosing Regeneration is a Red mechanic (sorta).
NEITHER OF THESE IS BLUE.
he's right, at my LGS, Dimir won 70% of limited events, even when forced. Boros is overrated(overdrafted/oversealed) :p.
Dimir mythic is going to be worth it; mark my words. WOtC made us dissapointed because they were waiting for this moment.(this prediction better be right, so far today, 80% have been correct)
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
they have sigara, they have blitz, they shalt stay spike FOREVER, MUAHAHAHAHAAHAHA.
by trailer thrash, you mean junk, right?
has anyone tried grixis mill?
suprisingly, recipe for disaster(izzet) mind drinkers(dimir) and feisty guys(rakdos) work well together.
how? izzet does the removal, rakdos guys are used to block opponents's force or swing, Dimir is there to support the blitz of Rakdos and removing threats with mill. result? EPIC WIN(you do need some mulligan skill)
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
Red may still be looking for its identity after 20 years, but it sure is smashing a lot of face in the meantime. How can you look at current formats and say Red has no real power? Red is pretty dominant in Standard, and the #1 defining-spell/best removal card in Modern is Lightning Bolt. If you're talking about Legacy and below then Blue is the overwhelming color and the other 4 are all quite equal in coming at 2nd place.
Shocklands don't count, so we're already past the halfway point (78/156).
Cōnservātum album delenda est.
Eh, Esper is more of a Tier 2 deck right now, alongside the demoted Jund control and the ascending Bant mindrange. Its popularity cannot match that of the cheap mono-red aggro decks, the slick Junk reanimator builds, or the WUR midrange decks that are overrated, but comforting and proven.
And Dimir's color combo is nowhere else in the metagame outside of Esper, so the overall picture is quite bleak.
I largely agree. You could maybe say Red is slightly worse than the other three. It has two good tricks, Lightning Bolt and Goblins. It also has some mediocre fast mana tricks that lead to stupid gimmick decks like Charbelcher.
A fun way to think about it, is to cripple red in Legacy you would have to ban only two cards, Lightning Bolt and Goblin Ringleader. (or Lackey, either works). To cripple white you would just need to ban StP and Stoneforge Mystic. Black/Green, you kill Deathrite Shaman, Dark Ritual, Tarmogoyf and maybe a couple of other cards.
To cripple blue you would need to ban all cards with subtype Island. Probably the easiest way to actually get the job done.
There's a reason every single blue dual land costs significantly more than every single non blue dual land. All of them.
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades
Hopefully Dragon's Maze will give them the tools they need to shine outside of limited: the milling subtheme just doesn't cut it on it's own and the intended support for it is lacking due to Lazav, Dimir Mastermind, Consuming Aberration etc... not being quite good enough on their own due to consistency issues (sometimes Lazav might turn into a gigantic beast with hexproof and win you the game but that's not something to bet on honestly.)
156/2=78 I think we both can agree on the possibilty of some Dimir love....I got beat to @&%* tonight by damn Thragtusk/Restoration Angel...blah...
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I really like those, especially the first one, it would be great to see them in the set.
Unfortunately dimir has definitely gotten the short end of the stick. Even in block it's not very playable. I do play a grixis control deck that is quite competitive with consuming abberation as the finisher. It's been doing wuite well.
But I feel that the thing missing from UB is a cheap two for one. Azorious can wipe the field for 4 mana with supreme verdict. Dimir can bounce a creature and force a sacrifice for 5 mana with far//away.
Yea that's fair.
However in block at least, grixis is very powerful against everything but aggro. If we get a spell like infest it might become one of the decks to beat.
We still need a dimir rare and mythic, as well as 2 black rares and i believe 2 blue rares, unless one has already been spoiled.
So don't worry too much, we might get some good stuff.
But it could still be stupid mill cards, that don't effect the board state.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
exactly this
here in this thread is a bunch of talk about how dimir is getting screwed, and to a degree you are right. however, its only the tip of the iceberg. Control is getting dicked way too much at the moment and the fact that dimir is UB, which are the two colors most typed as being "the control colors" lends to the idea that dimir is getting ripped off.
Control is being played as W/U/x because of sphinx's revelation and supreme verdict and detention sphere
The fact is, control sucks in standard. every iteration you see of control is one of the following:
Bant: this has evolved from being control to being a more mid-range deck using thragtusk to stall
America: this has evolved in a flash deck thats more tempo than true control
Esper: the only true control deck viable in standard. it hasn't won any major events since its conception
Looking at these forms of "control" its clear that the only one sporting U/B is the only one which is actually control. The fact here is that U/B control isn't that good. its outclassed by W/U in every way. W/U plays control better whilst still being tempo based in RTR block. U/B has gotten treated terribly with situational removal and awful forced mill.
Dragon's maze isn't going to bring anything to U/B to make it playable. If it was, it would have already been spoiled by wizards to show the jaded control players that they haven't been forgotten
Niv-Mizzet Ramp 'n' Wheel
Godo: Strap him up and turn him sideways!
Can't wait for the next Torment.