Whenever I hear playing a creature deck described as "turning cards mindlessly sideways" I know that the person never actually plays aggressive decks and has no understanding of how combat works.
Why is everyone posting control is great because UW is doing fine? It's amazing what these aggro players will lie just to keep this awful format the way it is.
We are talking about UB here. That means Dimir. Blue and black. and EVERY SINGLE DIMIR CARD IN GATECRASH AND DRAGONS MAZE IS UNPLAYABLE IN CONSTRUCTED.
Do you genius aggro players get it now? I have to call you geniuses because you feel that aggro takes as much as skill as control when an actual monkey can play aggro. It's been proven. My pet monkey beat me with Naya Blitz on turn 4. Fun format.
Thank you. This is what I've been saying. Dimir AS A GUILD has failed.
Why is everyone posting control is great because UW is doing fine? It's amazing what these aggro players will lie just to keep this awful format the way it is.
We are talking about UB here. That means Dimir. Blue and black. and EVERY SINGLE DIMIR CARD IN GATECRASH AND DRAGONS MAZE IS UNPLAYABLE IN CONSTRUCTED.
Do you genius aggro players get it now? I have to call you geniuses because you feel that aggro takes as much as skill as control when an actual monkey can play aggro. It's been proven. My pet monkey beat me with Naya Blitz on turn 4. Fun format.
Yes, Blitz can nut draw players on turn 4 and sometimes it's total luck. Other times the aggro player put themselves in a position for the turn 4 nut draw based on their sequencing. Other games the aggro player has to getting out wins against an aggro deck.
If anyone thinks that playing a deck like Blitz or other super aggro decks is mindless you're just stupid (note: this is not aimed at any one person but an entire subset of players both members of this forum and not members).
Why is everyone posting control is great because UW is doing fine? It's amazing what these aggro players will lie just to keep this awful format the way it is.
We are talking about UB here. That means Dimir. Blue and black. and EVERY SINGLE DIMIR CARD IN GATECRASH AND DRAGONS MAZE IS UNPLAYABLE IN CONSTRUCTED.
Do you genius aggro players get it now? I have to call you geniuses because you feel that aggro takes as much as skill as control when an actual monkey can play aggro. It's been proven. My pet monkey beat me with Naya Blitz on turn 4. Fun format.
I'm pretty sure you're not the real Travis Woo, because I don't think Travis Woo is a moron.
I'm not going to tell you that Dimir is the most powerful guild in the block, but it has playables. Duskmantle Seer and Dimir Charm are both good Constructed cards from Gatecrash. Dragon's Maze has Notion Thief and Far // Away, which is as good as what most guilds got.
And playing aggro really does take significantly more skill than playing control. Mulligans are harder, and setting a pace in a mirror is very challenging. Combat math is much more important than in a control deck, and each decision affects the game much more.
I would love for you to look a what cards I said would hit and busy in my post history, feel free to check. You'll see I've been incredibly accurate, I'm sure you'd rather just make empty insults tho. Everything I'm about to say is available for you to check for validity.
(Incoming brags, proving a point)
I'll do a bit for you, I called temporal mastery a bust, I called Vraska, M13 Ajani and liliana a bust, I said Restoration Angel was by far the best card from AVR and that Bonfire/Terminus would be the miracle cards worth pre-ordering, just to name a few. People heralded all of those as "the next jace", "omg pre-ban time walk 2.0". Those were popular opinions that I argued against.
I paid less than 8 dollars during pre-order (purely speculation buys) for snapcaster Mage, restoration angel, thundermaw Hellkite, bonfire of the damned, angel of serenity, thragtusk, Boros reckoner, Entreat the angels, deathrite shaman, all from starcitygames.
I sure do suck at evaluating cards tho -_- (sarcasm, if you couldn't tell)
You don't have a clue concerning my card evaluation skills. Have fun paying 20-40 dollars for jank 5 dollar mythics.
No. There are by FAR more than 4-5 playable cards from the set so far.
Definitely playable
Renounce the Guilds
Blood Scrivener
Pyrewild Shaman
Skylasher
Advent of the Wurm
Blood Baron of Vizkopa
Council of the Absolute
Lavinia of the Tenth
Legion's Initiative
Notion Thief
Progenitor Mimic
Putrefy
Ral Zarek
Varolz, the Scar-Striped
Voice of Resurgence
Catch // Release
10 Shocks, if you count them.
Just counting definitely playable, that's 16 (plus shocks). Please, if you disagree, enlighten me on why any of the definite cards aren't good. I enjoy a well-reasoned comeback.
For what it's worth, the opposite of evergreen is "deciduous" so I suggest we start using that from now on to refer to shroud, banding, islandhome, etc.
Pretty much this. By the argument most forum trolls use regarding what constitutes a good card, Delver of Secrets would be unplayable trash; it sees little to no play in the current Standard. However, we all know this simply isn't true, that it was a dominant force for almost a full year, and that the playability of all magic cards tends to cycles as the format rotates. There are always exceptions, because there are cards that are so certifiably powerful that they never stop being good (whether it's something as simple as Lightning Bolt or as over the top powerful as Jace, the Mind Sculptor), but most cards can be here today and gone tomorrow. Consider Boros Reckoner, which was a break out hit at PT Gatecrash, and is now seeing some Standard play. It didn't go on to dominate Standard because it's a good card, not an overpowered one, and good cards can be worked around at the metagame level, and the in-game level.
And I agree, why did we need another thread moaning about how Dimir, supposedly, got the shaft? Wizards doesn't design themes to all be equal in terms of their power in Standard (such a thing is inherently impossible, and if you want a good example of how you could never formulate a balance between so many different factions, go examine the history of Legend of the Five Rings and you'll understand this much better); they designed all the guilds to be fun in their own ways. Dimir, while not terribly exciting for Standard right now, still appeals to a large demographic of Magic players; and since the vast majority of Magic players play to have fun, not to win in their local PTQs, the overall power level means little and less to most people.
The only demographic that can act so hurt by this end result is the scrub-Spike one (of which MTG Salvation is overflowing) because they invest a lot emotionally into winning (not having fun). Do you think most Pro players care that Dimir, as a guild, isn't powerful? I severely doubt it even is a blip on their radar. They are more concerned with mining the good cards from the set, and they do that not by following their knee jerk reactions, but by brewing and testing their decks over and over (hundreds of times, usually) into they see what works and what doesn't.
@FireDelve: I agree, most of those cards have solid potential. Maybe they'll be good right out of the gate, maybe they'll need to wait til the release of Theros and the format to shift for some of them to really shine. But that's how Magic works. It's constantly in flux, and what was good last year (like Delver) may not have the support it needs in the future to make a name for itself, and vice versa. When I look at Dragon's Maze, I see a slew of potential playables in a variety of formats, and I see a set that looks like a lot of fun (which is, as some people need to be reminded, the actual purpose of magic: the Gathering).
I totally understand the whole "my favorite guild got shafted" thing. It's not like you can afford to play a third color in this standard. /sarcasm
Seriously, if you want to play your pet deck or favorite color combination exclusively maybe you shouldn't be playing competitive Magic. There's nothing wrong with making a tier 2 FNM deck or just playing casual. To say that you want one guild (out of TEN) to be awesome is ridiculous. If you really want your pet deck to be Tier 1, why don't you create your own set? Wizards has a lot of people to please--again, ten guilds. You could also employ some creativity in your deck building rather than complaining.
I totally understand the whole "my favorite guild got shafted" thing. It's not like you can afford to play a third color in this standard. /sarcasm
Seriously, if you want to play your pet deck or favorite color combination exclusively maybe you shouldn't be playing competitive Magic. There's nothing wrong with making a tier 2 FNM deck or just playing casual. To say that you want one guild (out of TEN) to be awesome is ridiculous. If you really want your pet deck to be Tier 1, why don't you create your own set? Wizards has a lot of people to please--again, ten guilds. You could also employ some creativity in your deck building rather than complaining.
Good thing the majority of players don't play competitively. I'm pretty sure MOST players are not wanting Dimir to be a top tier deck but rather have playable cards instead of endless chaff.
I will say this now, yes you could build a pet deck and play at a FNM. But you WILL lose, every match. There is no way a dimir deck can beat anything. The only solid finisher you could use is Consuming abberation which I loved. But everything else is just garbage. A 3/1 that steals draws is glorious, but you can't have a deck with 8 cards that have no real synergy.
Dimir did get hosed, even at the kitchen table. That's why people are mad. Maybe if we could work it in as some sort of tier 2 rogue deck that'd be alright, we're not asking for amazing or always win. Hell most blue black/monoblack control people are used to and enjoy spending hours trying to break out and do the best we can with what we have, but this, this is just horrid.
The new split card is cool at least.
Edit: I'm running grix right now though *is used to being a second rate deck* and both of those split cards are pretty rad. I wanted to go blue black cause I love dimir flavour but there is really no way to win with it. Millgrow? Unblockable cipher? Come on man throw me a bone to make these go to at least a playable level T_T just one staple, just one!
TravisWoo... I hope you're not really him, or but that in your sig, because with all the press he gets, you're shaming his name.
Considering the negativity and sarcasm oozing from just about every post, I think it should be obvious it's someone else.
As for the topic of the thread, I can certainly see how you might think Dimir is getting shafted, due simply to the fact that aggro is seemingly being pushed at every angle. I think the lack of a Doom Blade reprint is a good part of that, since Ultimate Price isn't terribly good against things like Reckoner and Thragtusk and a million Burning-Tree Emissaries. Orzhov at least gets Orzhov Charm, while Rakdos and Golgari can leverage all the good aggro cards.
That being said, I don't think all is bad for Dimir, and at 105/166 cards spoiled there's still entirely a good chance for wonderful things in common and uncommon. It's not like UB control needs rares really, just cogs to help manage resilient and fast aggro. That, and two-color decks aren't as much a thing in constructed these days, simply due to the fantastic manabase that allows the leveraging of other additional colors.
Yeah I agree... I think this is just the popular opinion to take, so people just keep repeating it. Notion Thief, Warped Physique, Farr//Away could easily all see competitive play, and Breaking is the closest thing we've seen to Glimpse of the Unthinkable that isn't attached to a PW. Perfect? Nope, but no guild is in this set.
wow im having a bit of deja vu, there was another thread just like this where butthurt dimir fans were whining. i have to say, shame on you if you are dimir and are complaining like this. if you were true UB mages, you would make those colors work for you no matter what cards were getting spoiled. your list may not have sphinx's revelation or be the most competetive but you do have some tools (notion thief v revelation lol) so i suggest playing your favorite color pair more instead of just complaining here. just keep brewing and tuning your UB deck.
As if blue cards really needed to be better let's let them sit out of the spotlight for a little while. Anyway I'm really excited about far and away and Thief seems like a great niche player. Doesn't feel like the time for a proper UB tempo or control deck. I mean... snapcaster and insectile abomination are in the format and it's still not making waves. You kittens need to relax, this is a format dominated by some of the best and flashiest timmy and johnny cards we've ever seen. It'd take really efficient disruption or a really solid combo to bring a UB deck of fine honed implements to the forefront.
Yeah I agree... I think this is just the popular opinion to take, so people just keep repeating it. Notion Thief, Warped Physique, Farr//Away could easily all see competitive play, and Breaking is the closest thing we've seen to Glimpse of the Unthinkable that isn't attached to a PW. Perfect? Nope, but no guild is in this set.
It's also possible that Notion Thief will end up being the best card in the set. There's been nothing that screams I'm insane, and that is a unique ability put on a reasonable body and given flash.
It's also possible that Notion Thief will end up being the best card in the set. There's been nothing that screens I'm insane, and that is a unique ability put on a reasonable body and given flash.
agree, i really like notion thief. it is sweet in edh and it laughs hard at revelation. thx for the cards bro, nice lifegain spell. you were going to do what with zegana?
Dimir needs more than it got. Izzet is kinda in the same boat as it in terms of card quality, but the only reason we aren't hearing that Izzet got shafted is because Izzet Johnnies are still too busy giggling over Epic Experiment. Dimir appeals to Spike, and Wizards let us down.
I a agree that Dimir got the shaft. Looking back Dimir seems like the weakest and most uninteresting guild. Normally i like the combination. But i have no emotional investment in them as a guild. Lazav is a nice General, and notion thief may well be the rockstar of Dragons Maze but in this block they are floppy.
Izzet didnt have it as bad as even I have suggested in the past. We got a planeswalker, 2 good commander cards, a nice charm and some fixins here and there. We had a decent yield.
But the white ghilds seemed to get all the goodies this time. Selesnya, Boros, Orzhov and Azorious continue to get serious quality that carries their time in the limelight over from their respective sets.
I feel like they could've deserved a better rare and the mythic couldve been X1UB so at worst its a Memoricide but it might be too strong. Anyways I feel like they didn't get the best stuff in standard playable but from a design and flavor standpoint they did well. Well except for having 2 mechanics. I would've liked more focus on either Cipher or on Mill both stretched them too far.
As far as control is dead I honestly feel this set may broaden the control decks a bit. I think we will see more America, Grixis, and possibly BUG lists(last one is very speculative)
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Currently Playing:
Standard: GWBSomething dont really care any more.
Legacy: GWBNic Fit WBDeadguy Ale
EDH: GWB Karador, Ghost Chieftain RUGRiku, of the Twin Reflections UR Melek, Izzet Paragon
Whenever I hear playing a creature deck described as "turning cards mindlessly sideways" I know that the person never actually plays aggressive decks and has no understanding of how combat works.
QFT!
It's essentially like saying that chess is "mindlessly picking up pieces and moving them from one square to the other" in my opinion...
Where is Notion Thief a good card outside control mirrors, i really don,t get, i mean yea its unique but it doesn´t look interesting to me, but maybe im just lacking fantasy.
A lot of decks these days draw cards. This is a nice response to Garruk, Primal Hunter. Like other flash creatures, it can pop in at EOT and go after planeswalkers (an issue for control decks). Against aggro, it isn't great, but it can at least 1 for 1 as a surprise blocker most of the time, though I'd agree that's it's worst situation.
Obviously in control matches its great.
People's complaints about dimir go something like this:
Control is centered in UW. After UW you have 3 choices for your 3rd color. This is what those choices get you right now:
Bant: Centaur healer, Thragtusk, Zegana. The realistic ability to win the game with creatures and the best interactions with restoration angel. A really, really good removal spell in the current meta (Selesnya Charm). Lifegain is strong vs aggro as long as you can make it to turn 4-5 or have a healer. Downside: You have to win off normal creature damage, making you very bad against other decks like yourself, or reanimator decks getting lots of thragtusk usage.
American: Boros Reckoner (With pyre or act combo potential to win the game). The most versitile removal vs aggro decks (spear, pillar), some of which is a duplicate board wipe in late games (Mortars). Izzet Charm is flexible and strong and all 3 modes are relevant. Izzet charm+spear+pillar+reckoner make you very good against fast aggro. Your win conditions suck a lot more than other people's win conditions.
Esper: Nephalia Drownyard (best win condition available to all 3). Effective removal for very large threats (Ultimate price) and removal that deals better with geist and resto angel shenanigans than others (edicts). Lingering Souls, which make tragic slip relevant as well in some arrangements. Sorin, Lord of Innistrad can create alternative win conditions but is very bad against aggro metagames. In theory access to Liliana, but few decks are built to take advantage. You have access to Obzedat for control mirrors. Downside: You have the least tools against fast aggro and against fast planeswalkers: Liliana and Domri are much worse for you than they are for the other decks. You have a very hard time punishing other people's bad draws because you play an extremely long game.
Why are people frustrated by Dimir?
Because prior to 2 days ago, the entire guild had not really provided a single card that we would consider playing. Dimir charm has seen very niche use because it's live vs unburial rites and burning-tree emmisary, but it's not really very good.
Notion Thief and Reap Intellect are both great cards for control mirrors, but those are already the matches Esper was best at. I, like a lot of control players, was really hoping for something that could make Esper better against aggro matchups, and especially hoping for more useful removal than we've presently got. Right now, despite being in black, the color of the unconditional removal, we've actually got the worst removal options of these 3 combinations. Selesnya Charm and the assorted red burn are both much more relevant than what we've got access to. Warp Physique adds another niche removal spell to our suite, but we're really missing a go-to removal spell, and we need one.
We also don't really have a relevant black drain spell of any kind, which is too bad with lifegain everywhere in the meta. . well, its everywhere but in black control more or less. We're in the meta because we really wreck the other two control decks and have a decent matchup with reanimator, but we're terrible against most combinations of blitz and gr/grb fasties.
I feel like they could've deserved a better rare and the mythic couldve been X1UB so at worst its a Memoricide but it might be too strong. Anyways I feel like they didn't get the best stuff in standard playable but from a design and flavor standpoint they did well. Well except for having 2 mechanics. I would've liked more focus on either Cipher or on Mill both stretched them too far.
As far as control is dead I honestly feel this set may broaden the control decks a bit. I think we will see more America, Grixis, and possibly BUG lists(last one is very speculative)
I think you mean at X1UB it's Lobotomy, not Cranial Extraction, and Lobotomy is already better than Cranial Extraction, so it was pretty necessary to add the extra mana.
Where is Notion Thief a good card outside control mirrors, i really don,t get, i mean yea its unique but it doesn´t look interesting to me, but maybe im just lacking fantasy.
A lot of decks these days draw cards. This is a nice response to Garruk, Primal Hunter. Like other flash creatures, it can pop in at EOT and go after planeswalkers (an issue for control decks). Against aggro, it isn't great, but it can at least 1 for 1 as a surprise blocker most of the time, though I'd agree that's it's worst situation.
Obviously in control matches its great.
What Junts said. It definitely could be an issue against aggro decks, and it will never be a 4 of main deck card in Standard. I can certainly see a 2/2 split MD/SB or a 1/2 split. After testing it might reveal itself to be not at all useful, but I think it has the most potential from any card in the set, and it is a beating in control mirrors. Even just snagging an A. Charm puts you up a card, them down a card, and you still have a 3/1 in play.
They also tend to be terrible Limited players.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Thank you. This is what I've been saying. Dimir AS A GUILD has failed.
Yes, Blitz can nut draw players on turn 4 and sometimes it's total luck. Other times the aggro player put themselves in a position for the turn 4 nut draw based on their sequencing. Other games the aggro player has to getting out wins against an aggro deck.
If anyone thinks that playing a deck like Blitz or other super aggro decks is mindless you're just stupid (note: this is not aimed at any one person but an entire subset of players both members of this forum and not members).
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
Not really.
Far // away
Reap intellect
Psychic Strike
Duskmantle Seer
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
Specter
Charm
Notion thief
Not played != unplayable
Better alternatives or popular cards just push them out of Std, not card being bad itself.
I'm pretty sure you're not the real Travis Woo, because I don't think Travis Woo is a moron.
I'm not going to tell you that Dimir is the most powerful guild in the block, but it has playables. Duskmantle Seer and Dimir Charm are both good Constructed cards from Gatecrash. Dragon's Maze has Notion Thief and Far // Away, which is as good as what most guilds got.
And playing aggro really does take significantly more skill than playing control. Mulligans are harder, and setting a pace in a mirror is very challenging. Combat math is much more important than in a control deck, and each decision affects the game much more.
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
No. There are by FAR more than 4-5 playable cards from the set so far.
Definitely playable
Renounce the Guilds
Blood Scrivener
Pyrewild Shaman
Skylasher
Advent of the Wurm
Blood Baron of Vizkopa
Council of the Absolute
Lavinia of the Tenth
Legion's Initiative
Notion Thief
Progenitor Mimic
Putrefy
Ral Zarek
Varolz, the Scar-Striped
Voice of Resurgence
Catch // Release
10 Shocks, if you count them.
Borderline Playable/Very Deck-Specific playable
Render Silent
Savageborn Hydra
Master of Cruelties
Renegade Krasis
Sin Collector
Plasm Capture
Warleader's Helix
Warped Physique
Reap Intellect
Beck // Call
Far // Away
Ready // Willing
Turn // Burn
Just counting definitely playable, that's 16 (plus shocks). Please, if you disagree, enlighten me on why any of the definite cards aren't good. I enjoy a well-reasoned comeback.
Quotes:
Pretty much this. By the argument most forum trolls use regarding what constitutes a good card, Delver of Secrets would be unplayable trash; it sees little to no play in the current Standard. However, we all know this simply isn't true, that it was a dominant force for almost a full year, and that the playability of all magic cards tends to cycles as the format rotates. There are always exceptions, because there are cards that are so certifiably powerful that they never stop being good (whether it's something as simple as Lightning Bolt or as over the top powerful as Jace, the Mind Sculptor), but most cards can be here today and gone tomorrow. Consider Boros Reckoner, which was a break out hit at PT Gatecrash, and is now seeing some Standard play. It didn't go on to dominate Standard because it's a good card, not an overpowered one, and good cards can be worked around at the metagame level, and the in-game level.
And I agree, why did we need another thread moaning about how Dimir, supposedly, got the shaft? Wizards doesn't design themes to all be equal in terms of their power in Standard (such a thing is inherently impossible, and if you want a good example of how you could never formulate a balance between so many different factions, go examine the history of Legend of the Five Rings and you'll understand this much better); they designed all the guilds to be fun in their own ways. Dimir, while not terribly exciting for Standard right now, still appeals to a large demographic of Magic players; and since the vast majority of Magic players play to have fun, not to win in their local PTQs, the overall power level means little and less to most people.
The only demographic that can act so hurt by this end result is the scrub-Spike one (of which MTG Salvation is overflowing) because they invest a lot emotionally into winning (not having fun). Do you think most Pro players care that Dimir, as a guild, isn't powerful? I severely doubt it even is a blip on their radar. They are more concerned with mining the good cards from the set, and they do that not by following their knee jerk reactions, but by brewing and testing their decks over and over (hundreds of times, usually) into they see what works and what doesn't.
@FireDelve: I agree, most of those cards have solid potential. Maybe they'll be good right out of the gate, maybe they'll need to wait til the release of Theros and the format to shift for some of them to really shine. But that's how Magic works. It's constantly in flux, and what was good last year (like Delver) may not have the support it needs in the future to make a name for itself, and vice versa. When I look at Dragon's Maze, I see a slew of potential playables in a variety of formats, and I see a set that looks like a lot of fun (which is, as some people need to be reminded, the actual purpose of magic: the Gathering).
Seriously, if you want to play your pet deck or favorite color combination exclusively maybe you shouldn't be playing competitive Magic. There's nothing wrong with making a tier 2 FNM deck or just playing casual. To say that you want one guild (out of TEN) to be awesome is ridiculous. If you really want your pet deck to be Tier 1, why don't you create your own set? Wizards has a lot of people to please--again, ten guilds. You could also employ some creativity in your deck building rather than complaining.
Good thing the majority of players don't play competitively. I'm pretty sure MOST players are not wanting Dimir to be a top tier deck but rather have playable cards instead of endless chaff.
Dimir did get hosed, even at the kitchen table. That's why people are mad. Maybe if we could work it in as some sort of tier 2 rogue deck that'd be alright, we're not asking for amazing or always win. Hell most blue black/monoblack control people are used to and enjoy spending hours trying to break out and do the best we can with what we have, but this, this is just horrid.
The new split card is cool at least.
Edit: I'm running grix right now though *is used to being a second rate deck* and both of those split cards are pretty rad. I wanted to go blue black cause I love dimir flavour but there is really no way to win with it. Millgrow? Unblockable cipher? Come on man throw me a bone to make these go to at least a playable level T_T just one staple, just one!
Considering the negativity and sarcasm oozing from just about every post, I think it should be obvious it's someone else.
As for the topic of the thread, I can certainly see how you might think Dimir is getting shafted, due simply to the fact that aggro is seemingly being pushed at every angle. I think the lack of a Doom Blade reprint is a good part of that, since Ultimate Price isn't terribly good against things like Reckoner and Thragtusk and a million Burning-Tree Emissaries. Orzhov at least gets Orzhov Charm, while Rakdos and Golgari can leverage all the good aggro cards.
That being said, I don't think all is bad for Dimir, and at 105/166 cards spoiled there's still entirely a good chance for wonderful things in common and uncommon. It's not like UB control needs rares really, just cogs to help manage resilient and fast aggro. That, and two-color decks aren't as much a thing in constructed these days, simply due to the fantastic manabase that allows the leveraging of other additional colors.
Cube talk, design community and much much more!
It's also possible that Notion Thief will end up being the best card in the set. There's been nothing that screams I'm insane, and that is a unique ability put on a reasonable body and given flash.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
agree, i really like notion thief. it is sweet in edh and it laughs hard at revelation. thx for the cards bro, nice lifegain spell. you were going to do what with zegana?
Izzet didnt have it as bad as even I have suggested in the past. We got a planeswalker, 2 good commander cards, a nice charm and some fixins here and there. We had a decent yield.
But the white ghilds seemed to get all the goodies this time. Selesnya, Boros, Orzhov and Azorious continue to get serious quality that carries their time in the limelight over from their respective sets.
EDH:
Niv-Mizzet
Legacy:
The Rack
Modern
Venser, the Sojourner Control
As far as control is dead I honestly feel this set may broaden the control decks a bit. I think we will see more America, Grixis, and possibly BUG lists(last one is very speculative)
Standard:
GWBSomething dont really care any more.
Legacy:
GWBNic Fit
WBDeadguy Ale
EDH:
GWB Karador, Ghost Chieftain
RUGRiku, of the Twin Reflections
UR Melek, Izzet Paragon
Artwork by Bornnover of Hakai Studios
That's what Magic is about, after all. A game of poker. With dragons.
Trade Thread http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8732945#post8732945
Remember how bad red became at the end of last standard? It was in decks, but only because of a few cards..
Not to mention your typical RDW deck ate timely reinforcements and did not look well.
Now, red is awesome, so let's see if UB comes back next block.
QFT!
It's essentially like saying that chess is "mindlessly picking up pieces and moving them from one square to the other" in my opinion...
A lot of decks these days draw cards. This is a nice response to Garruk, Primal Hunter. Like other flash creatures, it can pop in at EOT and go after planeswalkers (an issue for control decks). Against aggro, it isn't great, but it can at least 1 for 1 as a surprise blocker most of the time, though I'd agree that's it's worst situation.
Obviously in control matches its great.
People's complaints about dimir go something like this:
Control is centered in UW. After UW you have 3 choices for your 3rd color. This is what those choices get you right now:
Bant: Centaur healer, Thragtusk, Zegana. The realistic ability to win the game with creatures and the best interactions with restoration angel. A really, really good removal spell in the current meta (Selesnya Charm). Lifegain is strong vs aggro as long as you can make it to turn 4-5 or have a healer. Downside: You have to win off normal creature damage, making you very bad against other decks like yourself, or reanimator decks getting lots of thragtusk usage.
American: Boros Reckoner (With pyre or act combo potential to win the game). The most versitile removal vs aggro decks (spear, pillar), some of which is a duplicate board wipe in late games (Mortars). Izzet Charm is flexible and strong and all 3 modes are relevant. Izzet charm+spear+pillar+reckoner make you very good against fast aggro. Your win conditions suck a lot more than other people's win conditions.
Esper: Nephalia Drownyard (best win condition available to all 3). Effective removal for very large threats (Ultimate price) and removal that deals better with geist and resto angel shenanigans than others (edicts). Lingering Souls, which make tragic slip relevant as well in some arrangements. Sorin, Lord of Innistrad can create alternative win conditions but is very bad against aggro metagames. In theory access to Liliana, but few decks are built to take advantage. You have access to Obzedat for control mirrors. Downside: You have the least tools against fast aggro and against fast planeswalkers: Liliana and Domri are much worse for you than they are for the other decks. You have a very hard time punishing other people's bad draws because you play an extremely long game.
Why are people frustrated by Dimir?
Because prior to 2 days ago, the entire guild had not really provided a single card that we would consider playing. Dimir charm has seen very niche use because it's live vs unburial rites and burning-tree emmisary, but it's not really very good.
Notion Thief and Reap Intellect are both great cards for control mirrors, but those are already the matches Esper was best at. I, like a lot of control players, was really hoping for something that could make Esper better against aggro matchups, and especially hoping for more useful removal than we've presently got. Right now, despite being in black, the color of the unconditional removal, we've actually got the worst removal options of these 3 combinations. Selesnya Charm and the assorted red burn are both much more relevant than what we've got access to. Warp Physique adds another niche removal spell to our suite, but we're really missing a go-to removal spell, and we need one.
We also don't really have a relevant black drain spell of any kind, which is too bad with lifegain everywhere in the meta. . well, its everywhere but in black control more or less. We're in the meta because we really wreck the other two control decks and have a decent matchup with reanimator, but we're terrible against most combinations of blitz and gr/grb fasties.
Lurker. Rules Advisor. Sleepy.
True that, but UW for example is in decks just for 2 cards: revelation and verdict.
Kind of. Except for all the times I've gone up against Blood Artists and Vampire Nighthawks in control/disrupt decks
I think you mean at X1UB it's Lobotomy, not Cranial Extraction, and Lobotomy is already better than Cranial Extraction, so it was pretty necessary to add the extra mana.
What Junts said. It definitely could be an issue against aggro decks, and it will never be a 4 of main deck card in Standard. I can certainly see a 2/2 split MD/SB or a 1/2 split. After testing it might reveal itself to be not at all useful, but I think it has the most potential from any card in the set, and it is a beating in control mirrors. Even just snagging an A. Charm puts you up a card, them down a card, and you still have a 3/1 in play.
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