Box Mapping Thread - GTC Gatecrash Edition

  • #1
    The MTGS Rules no longer allow for creating box maps. We felt that there was too much potential for abuse and we didn't want to support a practice that a lot of people use to rip off others. Learning about and understanding that box mapping is a thing can be important, but that can be done without actually creating the tools needed to filter through packs. We understand that a fair number of people map boxes for completely legitimate reasons, but there are enough that we are not comfortable allowing our site to be used for this practice. Thank you.
    -Galspanic


    Hey guys, I'm fairly new to the forums, but I figure with pre-release coming this weekend, I should go ahead and create a Box Mapping thread for Gatecrash. In keeping with tradition, here is a quote from Mr. Smiley who normally starts these threads:

    "This is not a brag thread, or a "fishing for trades" thread; we're all happy for you that you opened high value cards--but if you cant give us a list of the entire box, in order, it doesn't help us decode the rare map.

    The same goes for "I opened a box but didn't keep track of the order, and got..."--again, doesn't help, spams the thread."


    For anyone new to mapping, Ross Edwards deserves some recognition for writing a rather in-depth review of Box Mapping. While some of the basic principles of his mapping technique remain the same, WotC have implemented a new algorithm for the sorting of rares. As far as I have surmised, all the rares and mythic rares come from two sheets of 11x11 cards. If we use the same sorting algorithm from Innistrad, Avacyn Restored, and Return to Ravinca, the 11 x 11 sheets are cut into 4 tracks. These are represented by Tracks A-D. The tracks are then distributed in booster packs in the following order:

    A B D A B D D A A B C A C D C C B D C B D C

    or

    D B C C D A D C A B C C B B D D A A D B C A

    or

    C A D B C C A D B C A D B C A D D B C A D B

    or

    C B A D D C B A D B C A D D C B A D C C B A
    (Thanks mtggo)

    Each track has a few characteristics that we can use to determine which cards will be in each Track. Track A usually contains two copies of 15 mythic rares with 4 copies of 6 different rares and 1 copy of a rare in Track B (usually a land or artifact). Track B contains 13 rares appearing 4 times with 3 of the remaining copies of the rare found in track A. Track C and D contain 16 rares appearing 4 times, in each, with two copies of one rare in each. As such, Track A and B both have 55 cards total while C and D have 66 cards total. If this explanation is confusing, here is an example from Innistrad:

    Track A: 15 Mythics appearing twice + 6 rares appearing 4 times + 1 Kessig Wolf Run = 55 Cards
    Track B: 13 Rares appearing 4 times + other 3 Kessig Wolf Run = 55 Cards
    Track C: 16 Rares appearing 4 times + 2 Evil Twin = 66 Cards
    Track D: 16 Rares appearing 4 times + 2 Evil Twin = 66 Cards

    Additionally, each box undergoes double displacement of rows. This usually occurs on the 1st and 7th row (often two rows, say 3 and 10, are removed and placed on top and in the 7th row). This would change the order of cards from 1-12 to 3, 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 10, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12. If you are attempting to map the box, it's relatively safe to assume that rows 4-6 and 11-12 are in the correct location (though not always).

    Before you begin mapping your box, watch this video by Vinzito describing how to put your cards in order.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh1Q3WLe_iE

    When you list your boxes, indicate the guild pictured on the front of the pack or the last digit on the barcode. (If you don't have the pack's number, that's fine, but it will help speed up the mapping process.)
    The numbers that are associated with each image are as follows:
    Boros Guildmage: 15049807000001
    Vizkopa Guildmage: 15049807000002
    Prime Speaker Zegana: 15049807000003
    Skarrg Guildmage: 15049807000004
    Duskmantle Guildmage: 15049807000005



    In an effort to develop some standardization for inputting cards, please follow the format below that includes mythic rares in red and foils in parentheses(As a disclaimer, remember that bold red posts are reserved for moderators). The numbers in parentheses represent the guild or last digit of the bar code discussed above.

    Left Column:
    (1) Clan Defiance
    (4) Borborygmos Enraged
    (2) Sepulchral Primordial
    (5) Rubblehulk
    (3) Fathom Mage (Bomber Corps)
    (1) Merciless Eviction
    (4) Rubblebelt Raiders
    (2) Mind Grind
    (5) Crypt Ghast
    (3) Treasury Thrull
    (1) Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
    (4) Luminate Primordial

    Center Column:
    (5) Hellkite Tyrant (Ground Assault)
    (3) Sacred Foundry (Enter the Infinite)
    (1) Ooze Flux
    (4) Whispering Madness
    (2) Simic Manipulator
    (5) Nightveil Specter
    (3) Realmwright
    (1) Ogre Slumlord (Island #258)
    (4) Wrecking Ogre
    (2) Gruul Ragebeast
    (5) Biovisionary
    (3) Molten Primordial

    Right Column:
    (4) Stolen Identity
    (2) Stomping Ground
    (5) Alms Beast (Skyblinder Staff)
    (3) Frontline Medic
    (1)Sylvan Primordial
    (4) Gideon, Champion of Justice
    (2) Obzedat, Ghost Council
    (5) Legion Loyalist (Gateway Shade)
    (3) Thespian’s Stage
    (1) Godless Shrine
    (4) Boros Reckoner (Forced Adaptation)
    (2) Watery Grave


    These are listed Top to Bottom for each Row.
    Remember to provide the Country and Language that the box was printed in (Usually, Belgium or U.S.A.)
    Finally, double check your Spelling for card names. The more accurate your spelling, the faster we can produce the map.


    Furthermore if you have cases, please list them as described by Mr. Smiley in the RTR thread:
    "If you're giving a full case list (yay!), the boxes are most times loaded in the case bottom-side up, for ease of barcode scanning; let us know if your case is not loaded that way. The 6-4-2-5-3-1 Ross refers to is--I think--the order the boxes are loaded in the case; with the front of the boxes facing right, the machines load boxes into cases in this order: bottom right(1), top right(2), bottom middle(3), top middle(4), bottom left(5), top left(6). If you're giving a full case list, please number your boxes so our database crunchers can attempt to use the multi-box data."

    I realize that writing down each rare that comes out of a pack in order is a bit of a pain. However, each box we get brings us closer to developing an accurate map.

    In closing, have fun in the upcoming pre-release festivities. I'm sure you already have a guild or two picked out, and once you finish extorting your friends into the ground, don't forget to post your unboxings on the thread.


    All the Tracks have been solved and can be found below. Thanks mtggo and Vinzito for your help in compiling the Tracks.
    Track Information:

    Track A: 15 Mythics appearing twice + 6 rares appearing 4 times + 1 Stolen Identity = 55 Cards
    Track B: 13 Rares appearing 4 times + other 3 Stolen Identity = 55 Cards
    Track C: 16 Rares appearing 4 times + 2 Spark Trooper = 66 Cards
    Track D: 16 Rares appearing 4 times + 2 Spark Trooper = 66 Cards


    Track A:


    Glaring Spotlight
    Whispering Madness
    Enter the Infinite
    Borborygmos Enraged
    Mind Grind
    Aurelia’s Fury
    Godless Shrine
    Giant Adephage
    Master Biomancer
    Glaring Spotlight
    Obzedat, Ghost Council
    Consuming Aberration
    Deathpact Angel
    Hellkite Tyrant
    Borborygmos Enraged
    Whispering Madness
    Gideon, Champion of Justice
    Obzedat, Ghost Council
    Mind Grind
    Godless Shrine
    Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
    Lord of the Void
    Soul Ransom
    Gideon, Champion of Justice
    Prime Speaker Zegana
    Mind Grind
    Glaring Spotlight
    Aurelia’s Fury
    Consuming Aberation
    Godless Shrine
    Deathpact Angel
    Soul Ransom
    Aurelia, the Warleader
    Duskmantle Seer
    Stolen Identity
    Prime Speaker Zegana
    Glaring Spotlight
    Domri Rade
    Giant Adephage
    Soul Ransom
    Whispering Madness
    Aurelia, the Warleader
    Consuming Aberration
    Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
    Hellkite Tyrant
    Master Biomancer
    Lord of the Void
    Whispering Madness
    Mind Grind
    Enter the Infinite
    Domri Rade
    Consuming Aberration
    Soul Ransom
    Godless Shrine
    Duskmantle Seer
    Track B:


    Illusionist’s Bracers
    Mystic Genesis
    Biovisionary
    Breeding Pool
    Wrecking Ogre
    Unexpected Results
    Biomass Mutation
    Stolen Identity
    Stomping Ground
    Frontline Medic
    Fathom Mage
    Merciless Eviction
    Ogre Slumlord
    Wrecking Ogre
    Biovisionary
    Gyre Sage
    Unexpected Results
    Stolen Identity
    Mystic Genesis
    Frontline Medic
    Wrecking Ogre
    Stomping Ground
    Gyre Sage
    Merciless Eviction
    Illusionist’s Bracers
    Fathom Mage
    Ogre Slumlord
    Breeding Pool
    Unexpected Results
    Stomping Ground
    Biovisionary
    Illusionist’s Bracers
    Biomass Mutation?
    Fathom Mage
    Stolen Identity
    Breeding Pool
    Frontline Medic
    Gyre Sage
    Ogre Slumlord
    Biovisionary
    Merciless Eviction
    Stomping Ground
    Mystic Genesis
    Biomass Mutation
    Gyre Sage
    Illusionist’s Bracers
    Breeding Pool
    Fathom Mage
    Wrecking Ogre
    Mystic Genesis
    Unexpected Results
    Ogre Slumlord
    Biomass Mutation
    Merciless Eviction
    Frontline Medic
    Track C:


    Sepulchral Primordial
    Sylvan Primordial
    Simic Manipulator
    Nightveil Specter
    Legion Loyalist
    Crypt Ghast
    Boros Reckoner
    Molten Primordial
    Luminate Primordial
    Skarrg Goliath
    Foundry Champion
    Diluvian Primordial
    Crypt Ghast
    Firemane Avenger
    Molten Primordial
    Sepulchral Primordial
    Nightveil Specter
    Sacred Foundry
    Diluvian Primordial
    Legion Loyalist
    Assemble the Legion
    Skarrg Goliath
    Boros Reckoner
    Luminate Primordial
    Foundry Champion
    Sylvan Primordial
    Nightveil Specter
    Firemane Avenger
    Assemble the Legion
    Sacred Foundry
    Luminate Primordial
    Sepulchral Primordial
    Simic Manipulator
    Skarrg Goliath
    Blind Obediance
    Boros Reckoner
    Legion Loyalist
    Firemane Avenger
    Sacred Foundry
    Crypt Ghast
    Assemble the Legion
    Simic Manipulator
    Molten Primordial
    Blind Obedience
    Spark Trooper
    Foundry Champion
    Legion Loyalist
    Skarrg Goliath
    Dilavion Primordial
    Sepulchral Primordial
    Assemble the Legion
    Blind Obediance
    Sylvan Primordial
    Boros Reckoner
    Firemane Avenger
    Diulvian Primordial
    Nightveil Spector
    Luminate Primordial
    Spark Trooper
    Sylvan Primordial
    Crypt Ghast
    Simic Manipulator
    Blind Obedience
    Foundry Champion
    Molten Primordial
    Sacred Foundry
    Track D:


    Clan Defiance
    Ooze Flux
    High Priest Penance
    Treasury Thrull
    Undercity Plague
    Rubblehulk
    Angelic Skirmisher
    Clan Defiance
    Thespian’s Stage
    Immortal Servitude
    Realmwright
    High Priest of Penance
    Gruul Ragebeast
    Ooze Flux
    Signal the Clans
    Five-Alarm Fire
    Rubblehulk
    Rubblebelt Raiders
    Undercity Plague
    Immortal Servitude
    Ooze Flux
    Angelic Skirmisher
    Signal the Clans
    High Priest of Penance
    Rubblebelt Raider
    Watery Grave
    Alms Beast
    Realmwright
    Angelic Skirmisher
    Immortal Servitude
    Treasury Thrull
    Signal the Clans
    Undercity Plague
    Five-Alarm Fire
    Gruul Ragebeast
    Alms Beast
    Angelic Skirmisher
    Thespians Stage
    Signal the Clans
    Rubblebelt Raiders
    Spark Trooper (?)
    Clan Defiance
    (Watery Grave)
    Gruul Ragebeast
    Realmwright
    Treasury Thrull
    Rubblehulk
    Thespian’s Stage
    Alms Beast
    High Priest of Penance
    Five-Alarm Fire
    Watery Grave
    Gruul Beast
    Realmwright
    Treasury Thrull
    Rubblehulk
    Thespian’s Stage
    Alms Beast
    High Priest of Penance
    Five-Alarm Fire
    (Watery Grave
    (Spark Trooper
    (Undercity Plague)
    Clan Defiance
    Alms Beast
    Ooze Flux
    Rubblehulk
    Realmwright
    Rubblebelt Raiders
    Thespian's Stage
    Gruul Ragebeast
    Treasury Thrull
    Watery Grave
    Immortal Servitude
    Five-Alarm Fire

    It would seem that there is an open discussion on the ethics surrounding box mapping. At the moment, it appears that we may not be able to discuss this topic come Dragon's Maze. For the time being, I am waiting for the thread to unlock. Once it does, I will provide a link. Until then, I suggest that we keep this thread centered on solving the map and leave the ethical issues for other threads.



    Edits:
    1-31-13 Added a data file provided by CanadianGreenBeret. Thanks, again, for contributing this.
    2-1-13: Added the second track provided by mtggo, changed the example to a Gatecrash box. Added the Partial Track Information.
    2-2-13: Found another Sequence of Tracks. Updated the Track list.
    2-3-13: Compiled my list and mtggo's list to form 4 nearly completed Tracks. Track C is currently a train wreck.
    2-6-13: Fixed Track C. All Tracks should be accurate now. Thanks, mtggo and Vinzito for contributing your maps as well as everyone that contributed box data.
    ATTACHMENTS
    • BoxMappingSheet
    • GTC Data 1.0
    Last edited by Galspanic: 4/30/2013 10:52:30 AM
  • #2
    Hello.

    During the RTR period I have learned about this technique and wanted to contribute. I wrote a program that might be useful to those who do the mapping by hand. My goal was to have it solve the map automatically but I am not there yet (open for suggestions, just pm me). Here is a sample of the results I got from the RTR xlsl file :

    (ok or !ok) <card name>-<followed by>:<#occurances>

    ( ok) Blood Crypt-Search the City:183
    ( ok) Supreme Verdict-Cyclonic Rift:77
    ( ok) Chaos Imps-Palisade Giant:71
    ( ok) Underworld Connections-Blood Crypt:66
    ( ok) Loxodon Smiter-Ash Zealot:65
    ( ok) Collective Blessing-Growing Ranks:65
    ( ok) Hallowed Fountain-Precinct Captain:62
    ( ok) Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius-Carnival Hellsteed:61
    (!ok) Abrupt Decay-Volatile Rig:61
    ( ok) Wayfaring Temple-Collective Blessing:59
    (!ok) Volatile Rig-Counterflux:58
    ( ok) Chaos Imps-Collective Blessing:54
    ( ok) Palisade Giant-Loxodon Smiter:54
    ( ok) Growing Ranks-Chaos Imps:54
    ( ok) Loxodon Smiter-Chaos Imps:53

    These are the top results. Obviously it is not the whole map but most of it is accurate if you compare it to the real map. This was extracted from 97 boxes of data using a rudimentary technique. It takes no assumption based on the tracks or the sequences so it should be improvable. Again if you have suggestions I'm open to try them.

    One last point, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE pay attention to the syntax when writing cards to a document. It needs to be the exact name on gatherer otherwise it makes it quite hard for the program to figure out what the cards are and I will usually reject the boxes/fix the data manually (sucks).

    Let's do this Smile
  • #3
    These are the track lists I came up with if anyone is interested.
    I only used boxes with sleeve data.

    Track A:

    Consuming_Aberration
    Soul_Ransom
    Godless_Shrine
    Duskmantle_Seer
    Glaring_Spotlight
    Whispering_Madness
    Enter_the_Infinite
    Borborygmos_Enraged
    Mind_Grind
    Aurelias_Fury
    Godless_Shrine
    Giant_Adephage
    Master_Biomancer
    Glaring_Spotlight
    Obzedat_Ghost_Council
    Consuming_Aberration
    Deathpact_Angel
    Hellkite_Tyrant
    Borborygmos_Enraged
    Whispering_Madness
    Gideon_Champion_of_Justice
    Obzedat_Ghost_Council
    Mind_Grind
    Godless_Shrine
    Lazav_Dimir_Mastermind
    Lord_of_the_Void
    Soul_Ransom
    Gideon_Champion_of_Justice
    Prime_Speaker_Zegana
    Mind_Grind
    Glaring_Spotlight
    Aurelias_Fury
    Consuming_Aberration
    Godless_Shrine
    Deathpact_Angel
    Soul_Ransom
    Aurelia_the_Warleader
    Duskmantle_Seer
    Stolen_Identity
    Prime_Speaker_Zegana
    Glaring_Spotlight
    Domri_Rade
    Giant_Adephage
    Soul_Ransom
    Whispering_Madness
    Aurelia_the_Warleader
    Consuming_Aberration
    Lazav_Dimir_Mastermind
    Hellkite_Tyrant
    Master_Biomancer
    Lord_of_the_Void
    Whispering_Madness
    Mind_Grind
    Enter_the_Infinite
    Domri_Rade

    Track B:

    Ogre_Slumlord
    Biomass_Mutation
    Merciless_Eviction
    Frontline_Medic
    Illusionists_Bracers
    Mystic_Genesis
    Biovisionary
    Breeding_Pool
    Wrecking_Ogre
    Unexpected_Results
    Biomass_Mutation
    Stolen_Identity
    Stomping_Ground
    Frontline_Medic
    Fathom_Mage
    Merciless_Eviction
    Ogre_Slumlord
    Wrecking_Ogre
    Biovisionary
    Gyre_Sage
    Unexpected_Results
    Stolen_Identity
    Mystic_Genesis
    Frontline_Medic
    Wrecking_Ogre
    Stomping_Ground
    Gyre_Sage
    Merciless_Eviction
    Illusionists_Bracers
    Fathom_Mage
    Ogre_Slumlord
    Breeding_Pool
    Unexpected_Results
    Stomping_Ground
    Biovisionary
    Illusionists_Bracers
    Biomass_Mutation
    Fathom_Mage
    Stolen_Identity
    Breeding_Pool
    Frontline_Medic
    Gyre_Sage
    Ogre_Slumlord
    Biovisionary
    Merciless_Eviction
    Stomping_Ground
    Mystic_Genesis
    Biomass_Mutation
    Gyre_Sage
    Illusionists_Bracers
    Breeding_Pool
    Fathom_Mage
    Wrecking_Ogre
    Mystic_Genesis
    Unexpected_Results

    Track C:

    Blind_Obedience
    Foundry_Champion
    Molten_Primordial
    Sacred_Foundry
    Sepulchral_Primordial
    Sylvan_Primordial
    Simic_Manipulator
    Nightveil_Specter
    Legion_Loyalist
    Crypt_Ghast
    Boros_Reckoner
    Molten_Primordial
    Luminate_Primordial
    Skarrg_Goliath
    Foundry_Champion
    Diluvian_Primordial
    Crypt_Ghast
    Firemane_Avenger
    Molten_Primordial
    Sepulchral_Primordial
    Nightveil_Specter
    Sacred_Foundry
    Diluvian_Primordial
    Legion_Loyalist
    Assemble_the_Legion
    Skarrg_Goliath
    Boros_Reckoner
    Luminate_Primordial
    Foundry_Champion
    Sylvan_Primordial
    Nightveil_Specter
    Firemane_Avenger
    Assemble_the_Legion
    Sacred_Foundry
    Luminate_Primordial
    Sepulchral_Primordial
    Simic_Manipulator
    Skarrg_Goliath
    Blind_Obedience
    Boros_Reckoner
    Legion_Loyalist
    Firemane_Avenger
    Sacred_Foundry
    Crypt_Ghast
    Assemble_the_Legion
    Simic_Manipulator
    Molten_Primordial
    Blind_Obedience
    Spark_Trooper
    Foundry_Champion
    Legion_Loyalist
    Skarrg_Goliath
    Diluvian_Primordial
    Sepulchral_Primordial
    Assemble_the_Legion
    Blind_Obedience
    Sylvan_Primordial
    Boros_Reckoner
    Firemane_Avenger
    Diluvian_Primordial
    Nightveil_Specter
    Luminate_Primordial
    Spark_Trooper
    Sylvan_Primordial
    Crypt_Ghast
    Simic_Manipulator

    Track D:

    Clan_Defiance
    Ooze_Flux
    High_Priest_of_Penance
    Treasury_Thrull
    Undercity_Plague
    Rubblehulk
    Angelic_Skirmisher
    Clan_Defiance
    Thespians_Stage
    Immortal_Servitude
    Realmwright
    High_Priest_of_Penance
    Gruul_Ragebeast
    Ooze_Flux
    Signal_the_Clans
    Five_Alarm_Fire
    Rubblehulk
    Rubblebelt_Raiders
    Undercity_Plague
    Immortal_Servitude
    Ooze_Flux
    Angelic_Skirmisher
    Signal_the_Clans
    High_Priest_of_Penance
    Rubblebelt_Raiders
    Watery_Grave
    Alms_Beast
    Realmwright
    Angelic_Skirmisher
    Immortal_Servitude
    Treasury_Thrull
    Signal_the_Clans
    Undercity_Plague
    Five_Alarm_Fire
    Gruul_Ragebeast
    Alms_Beast
    Angelic_Skirmisher
    Thespians_Stage
    Signal_the_Clans
    Rubblebelt_Raiders
    Spark_Trooper
    Clan_Defiance
    Watery_Grave
    Gruul_Ragebeast
    Realmwright
    Treasury_Thrull
    Rubblehulk
    Thespians_Stage
    Alms_Beast
    High_Priest_of_Penance
    Five_Alarm_Fire
    Watery_Grave
    Spark_Trooper
    Undercity_Plague
    Clan_Defiance
    Alms_Beast
    Ooze_Flux
    Rubblehulk
    Realmwright
    Rubblebelt_Raiders
    Thespians_Stage
    Gruul_Ragebeast
    Treasury_Thrull
    Watery_Grave
    Immortal_Servitude
    Five_Alarm_Fire
    Last edited by Vinzito: 2/5/2013 9:18:35 AM
    Box Mapping Apps - RTR AVR INN M13 GTC DKA
  • #4
    Great news! I'm glad to see computer science taking the guess work out of mapping. Just out of curiosity, will the program solve the tracks in the event they switch the order of the tracks? Additionally, have you considered going through the old sets and determining the foil distribution algorithm?
  • #5
    That was the idea at first. I tried to figure out the tracks without inputting the sequence or any relevant assumptions based on the current print technology. However it does not seem simple as row inversion introduces a lot of noise.

    Maybe Vinzito figured it out. I know I haven't yet Grin
  • #6
    Okay guys first box towards the mapping project.
    Vinzito, any chance you are willing to release your mapping method?

    Illusionist's Bracers
    Sacred Foundry
    Stomping Ground
    Alms Beast
    Godless Shrine
    Realmwright (Orzhov Charm)
    Watery Grave
    Soul Ransom
    Legion Loyalist
    Duskmantle Seer
    Thespian's Stage
    Molten Primordial

    Rubblehulk
    Molten Primordial
    Clan Defiance
    Consuming Aberration
    Sylvan Primordial (Forest #270)
    Deathpact Angel
    Treasury Thrull (Plains #280)
    Nightveil Specter
    Fathom Mage
    Aurelia, the Warleader
    Boros Reckoner
    Breeding Pool

    Ooze Flux
    Unexpected Results (Whispering Madness)
    Aurelia's Fury
    Sepulchral Primordial
    Biovisionary
    Simic Manipulator
    Stolen Identity
    Biomass Mutation (Cloudfin Raptor)
    Rubblebelt Raiders
    Crypt Ghast
    Stolen Identity
    Gruul Ragebeast
  • #7
    Quote from thatsnailguy
    Okay guys first box towards the mapping project.
    Vinzito, any chance you are willing to release your mapping method?


    The program that solves the box maps? It's just a whole mess of code. It factors in all of the things we know about row shifting, pack removals and same-track card swapping.

    Right now I have it locked in to our old track sequence to save time, but it can find a new one if need be with any number of tracks.

    Thanks for getting us started. I've been home programming all day Saturday while the wife was out doing the prerelease event. Smile
    Last edited by Vinzito: 1/27/2013 6:38:45 AM
    Box Mapping Apps - RTR AVR INN M13 GTC DKA
  • #8
    I saw your video Vinzito on M13. Good stuff. I'm glad you took the time to program an app for the sets. Have you put any thought into how the foils are currently being placed into boxes? I was thinking of going back through RTR and seeing if I could find patterns in the cases. They apparently come from sheets similar to the foils. Maybe they run different tracks for Common/Uncommon/Rare&Mythic rares.

    Actually, now that I think about it, I'm going to check the cases to see if they follow the pattern of any of the rare tracks.
  • #9
    pre-order boxes will come 1st of feb , here in our area. Grin

    will post list ASAP
  • #10
    So, is it odd that two mythics were next to each other on the same row?
  • #11
    I don't personally do box mapping, but I find it fascinating how this all works. I'll try and post my box next week when I open it to help the cause Smile

    Sig by Xenphire of Inkfox Aesthetics. Avvie by DNC from Hero of the Planes Studio

    Tibalt count: 1 Chinese Foil, 1 Japanses, 4 Normal.

    My decks

    EDH-
    More to come- my indecisiveness gets the better of me...:rolleyes:
    "The only real control we have is over ourselves." -We Came as Romans
  • #12
    Quote from Vinzito
    The program that solves the box maps? It's just a whole mess of code. It factors in all of the things we know about row shifting, pack removals and same-track card swapping.

    Right now I have it locked in to our old track sequence to save time, but it can find a new one if need be with any number of tracks.

    Thanks for getting us started. I've been home programming all day Saturday while the wife was out doing the prerelease event. Smile


    Just watched your vid, that is very impressive... will def buying the GTC app from you once its released!
  • #13
    just watched your video as i'm interested in this box mapping and was very impressed with what i saw if i owned a phone that could use apps your box mapping apps would be the first ones i'd add. great service and looking forward to gtc edition
  • #14
    Quote from Vinzito
    The program that solves the box maps? It's just a whole mess of code. It factors in all of the things we know about row shifting, pack removals and same-track card swapping.

    Right now I have it locked in to our old track sequence to save time, but it can find a new one if need be with any number of tracks.

    Thanks for getting us started. I've been home programming all day Saturday while the wife was out doing the prerelease event. Smile


    I was just thinking, would it be too difficult/not rewarding enough to develop this into your apps, in order to have a DYNAMIC path to opening the fewest packs to having the complete box mapped.
    Also, is the data consistent enough to add support for opening cases?
  • #15
    Quote from Ace5301
    I don't personally do box mapping, but I find it fascinating how this all works. I'll try and post my box next week when I open it to help the cause Smile


    I agree. I always go to these threads. I love attempting to see the patterns involved. I will also try to post mine next weekend.

    Here's hoping I do much better than I did than with my last box I cracked back for Innistrad. I had the worst one imaginable.
  • #16
    Left
    Rubblehulk (Executioner's Swing Common)
    Luminate Primordial (Plains)
    Skarrg Goliath
    mystic genesis
    prime speaker zegana
    biomass mutation
    firemane avenger
    realmwright
    grull ragebeast (slate street ruffian common)
    illusionist's bracers
    breeding pool
    signal the clans


    Middle
    molten primordial
    angelic skirmisher
    merciless eviction
    stomping ground (crocanura common)
    thespian's stage
    immortal servitude (realmwright rare)
    crypt ghast
    glaring spotlight
    aurelia's fury (ordruun veteran uncommon)
    consumming aberration
    nightveil specter
    ooze flux (hydroform common)



    Right
    boros reckoner
    soul ransom
    gideon, champion of justice
    foundry champion
    clan defiance
    mind grind
    gyre sage
    diluvian primordial (gruul guildgate common)
    high priest of penance
    molten primordial
    sepulchral primordial
    fathom mage
  • #17
    Quote from thatsnailguy
    So, is it odd that two mythics were next to each other on the same row?


    This is actually exceptional news. This might suggest they used the same order for the tracks as RTR.

    It's good to see so much interest in providing box data. Try to get your friends to list out their boxes as well. The more boxes we can record after release, the faster we can determine the tracks.

    Also, there still seem to two open questions as far as mapping goes, for anyone wanting to take a crack at them.

    1. How are double faced cards distributed?
    2. How are foils distributed?

    Post your theories, if you have them.
  • #18
    to help box mappers, I've order 2 booster boxes for this friday. I will be posting late friday. I hope I can help!

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  • #19
    Quote from SynthesisB
    Have you put any thought into how the foils are currently being placed into boxes? I was thinking of going back through RTR and seeing if I could find patterns in the cases. They apparently come from sheets similar to the foils. Maybe they run different tracks for Common/Uncommon/Rare&Mythic rares.

    Actually, now that I think about it, I'm going to check the cases to see if they follow the pattern of any of the rare tracks.


    I worked on this (foils) for RTR. It's actually one of the easier methods to determine row shift, if you're working with full boxes. The brief version, (I don't feel like digging through the RTR mapping thread for it) is: Commons occur every 8 packs, Uncommons every 20, and Rares every 32. Rares occur 2 pack before commons, uncommons are 1 pack before (when they match, 20 doesn't divide into 8 well). There's also occasionally foils which I couldn't predict.

    Commons, Uncommons, and Rare foils do follow patterns. It's easiest to find with commons as you have enough data in a single box. For UC and Rares, you need several (ie a case). There are perks to this, in that maps have followed from box to box in a case. I have yet to determine a pattern within a case, mainly due to lack of foil case data for RTR. (I found 2 among the 100+ boxes) The best tip I can offer is try really really hard to find pictures of foil uncut sheets. There was one for M13 and I think one cropped up for RTR later on. They're given away as prizes at some events, and it's a piece of cake to work from those.

    As for GTC, from the info so far, dnelegend's box seems to follow the foil pattern perfectly, with rows 7 and 8 switched. Not as sure about thatsnailguy's box. (No offense meant, sometimes these things get completely garbled.)

    And, on a personal note, if anyone's willing to record common's/uncommons data, I'd be super appreciative. There was a bit of data in the RTR mapping and it got me interested. Unfortunately, a box isn't a ton of data to work with (2-3 on the other hand might be). If you do, it's easier in my opinion to record card number rather than write out each name, but I'd take anything I can get. If you just want to record UC, I'll take it, heck I'll even take individual pack data for commons (PM me that, I doubt everyone here wants the spam)
  • #20
    I'm fairly new to Magic and have never seen the work people have done on this before. I've preordered an entire case for Gatecrash, what sort of information would you guys be after specifically?
  • #21
    Hi guys,

    since I played Magic some years ago, I just wanted to get back into some competetive play and I read this box mapping threads attentively.
    I would be grateful if you can answer me two little questions:

    1. Is it possible to do this mapping on cases or displays manufactured in belgium? cause I don't want to pay ~30$ shipping fees for every single display overtime. So in addition is it useful to buy this book from ross in case you're living in europe? I don't really have the time to figure it out myself Frown

    Probably I will post some "belgium" box content on friday when I get them if it helps but I also read that these apps from Vinz are only working for us-made boxes...

    Sad story I would buy all 4 otherwise :p

    2. Once I get into the whole technique of mapping, am I able to create new maps for new editions? Maybe I can help you to improve programs because i studied some parts of operations research and it seems like these boxes follow certain patterns...

    Thanks
    & kind regards
  • #22
    Quote from Gazpoole
    I'm fairly new to Magic and have never seen the work people have done on this before. I've preordered an entire case for Gatecrash, what sort of information would you guys be after specifically?


    We're basically looking for the rares and their positions in the boxes. Use the sheet on the original post to record their positions and any foils that you come across. As far as Case data goes, I think they are ordered:
    1 3 5
    2 4 6
    I'm not 100% sure on the case order of boxes, but mappers should be able to figure out the box order after we solve the rare map.

    Qwerty59 has also asked for common/uncommon information, if you are interested on doing the book keeping on them. It would be time consuming but exceptionally helpful for determining how commons/uncommons are distributed.

    Also, Qwerty59, thanks for the information about the foils. I went back and took a look at a few boxes, and your map holds up. Maybe with some luck we'll get more case data for gatecrash.

    I'm afraid I don't know the slightest about Belgium box mapping, other than I think they cracked Innistrad before we determined the U.S.A.'s map. Ross' book might still apply, but I would start with reading through all the RTR posts. That should teach you how to map the modern boxes.
  • #23
    Alright, I've figured out how to eliminate row shifting, pack removals, and inconsistencies with packs shuffling around.

    I've recorded a demonstration:
    How to prepare a MTG booster box for card mapping

    For anyone posting box information, it will greatly help everyone working on the map if you could post which sleeve each rare came from.

    With this information we should be able to complete the map extremely quickly.

    For example, you could mark each card with the first initial of the guild that the sleeve belongs to, (G.D.S.O.B. for the Gruul, Dimir, Simic, Orzhov or Boros guild sleeve.)

    Or you can use anything to represent each sleeve (numbers if you want) as long as it is consistent through that particular box.
    Last edited by Vinzito: 1/30/2013 2:20:05 PM
    Box Mapping Apps - RTR AVR INN M13 GTC DKA
  • #24
    @Vinzito
    Fixed link. Nice work.

    EDIT: And by "nice work" I mean good pattern recognition on the wrapper images.
    Last edited by Nis: 1/30/2013 2:20:36 PM
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    [card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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  • #25
    Quote from Vinzito
    Alright, I've figured out how to eliminate row shifting, pack removals, and inconsistencies with packs shuffling around.

    I've recorded a demonstration:
    How to prepare a MTG booster box for card mapping

    For anyone posting box information, it will greatly help everyone working on the map if you could post which sleeve each rare came from.

    With this information we should be able to complete the map extremely quickly.

    For example, you could mark each card with the first initial of the guild that the sleeve belongs to, (G.D.S.O.B. for the Gruul, Dimir, Simic, Orzhov or Boros guild sleeve.)

    Or you can use anything to represent each sleeve (numbers if you want) as long as it is consistent through that particular box.


    I have two more boxes on preorder, should be able to crack them tomorrow. Good job thinking of that, it sounds so simple, yet no one gave it any attention. Anywho, should I "Solve" the pack art pattern before posting. Or post as packaged.
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