The MTGS Rules no longer allow for creating box maps. We felt that there was too much potential for abuse and we didn't want to support a practice that a lot of people use to rip off others. Learning about and understanding that box mapping is a thing can be important, but that can be done without actually creating the tools needed to filter through packs. We understand that a fair number of people map boxes for completely legitimate reasons, but there are enough that we are not comfortable allowing our site to be used for this practice. Thank you.
-Galspanic
Hey guys, I'm fairly new to the forums, but I figure with pre-release coming this weekend, I should go ahead and create a Box Mapping thread for Gatecrash. In keeping with tradition, here is a quote from Mr. Smiley who normally starts these threads:
"This is not a brag thread, or a "fishing for trades" thread; we're all happy for you that you opened high value cards--but if you cant give us a list of the entire box, in order, it doesn't help us decode the rare map.
The same goes for "I opened a box but didn't keep track of the order, and got..."--again, doesn't help, spams the thread."
For anyone new to mapping, Ross Edwards deserves some recognition for writing a rather in-depth review of Box Mapping. While some of the basic principles of his mapping technique remain the same, WotC have implemented a new algorithm for the sorting of rares. As far as I have surmised, all the rares and mythic rares come from two sheets of 11x11 cards. If we use the same sorting algorithm from Innistrad, Avacyn Restored, and Return to Ravinca, the 11 x 11 sheets are cut into 4 tracks. These are represented by Tracks A-D. The tracks are then distributed in booster packs in the following order:
A B D A B D D A A B C A C D C C B D C B D C
or
D B C C D A D C A B C C B B D D A A D B C A
or
C A D B C C A D B C A D B C A D D B C A D B
or
C B A D D C B A D B C A D D C B A D C C B A
(Thanks mtggo)
Each track has a few characteristics that we can use to determine which cards will be in each Track. Track A usually contains two copies of 15 mythic rares with 4 copies of 6 different rares and 1 copy of a rare in Track B (usually a land or artifact). Track B contains 13 rares appearing 4 times with 3 of the remaining copies of the rare found in track A. Track C and D contain 16 rares appearing 4 times, in each, with two copies of one rare in each. As such, Track A and B both have 55 cards total while C and D have 66 cards total. If this explanation is confusing, here is an example from Innistrad:
Track A: 15 Mythics appearing twice + 6 rares appearing 4 times + 1 Kessig Wolf Run = 55 Cards
Track B: 13 Rares appearing 4 times + other 3 Kessig Wolf Run = 55 Cards
Track C: 16 Rares appearing 4 times + 2 Evil Twin = 66 Cards
Track D: 16 Rares appearing 4 times + 2 Evil Twin = 66 Cards
Additionally, each box undergoes double displacement of rows. This usually occurs on the 1st and 7th row (often two rows, say 3 and 10, are removed and placed on top and in the 7th row). This would change the order of cards from 1-12 to 3, 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 10, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12. If you are attempting to map the box, it's relatively safe to assume that rows 4-6 and 11-12 are in the correct location (though not always).
When you list your boxes, indicate the guild pictured on the front of the pack or the last digit on the barcode. (If you don't have the pack's number, that's fine, but it will help speed up the mapping process.)
The numbers that are associated with each image are as follows:
Boros Guildmage: 15049807000001
Vizkopa Guildmage: 15049807000002
Prime Speaker Zegana: 15049807000003
Skarrg Guildmage: 15049807000004
Duskmantle Guildmage: 15049807000005
In an effort to develop some standardization for inputting cards, please follow the format below that includes mythic rares in red and foils in parentheses(As a disclaimer, remember that bold red posts are reserved for moderators). The numbers in parentheses represent the guild or last digit of the bar code discussed above.
These are listed Top to Bottom for each Row.
Remember to provide the Country and Language that the box was printed in (Usually, Belgium or U.S.A.)
Finally, double check your Spelling for card names. The more accurate your spelling, the faster we can produce the map.
Furthermore if you have cases, please list them as described by Mr. Smiley in the RTR thread:
"If you're giving a full case list (yay!), the boxes are most times loaded in the case bottom-side up, for ease of barcode scanning; let us know if your case is not loaded that way. The 6-4-2-5-3-1 Ross refers to is--I think--the order the boxes are loaded in the case; with the front of the boxes facing right, the machines load boxes into cases in this order: bottom right(1), top right(2), bottom middle(3), top middle(4), bottom left(5), top left(6). If you're giving a full case list, please number your boxes so our database crunchers can attempt to use the multi-box data."
I realize that writing down each rare that comes out of a pack in order is a bit of a pain. However, each box we get brings us closer to developing an accurate map.
In closing, have fun in the upcoming pre-release festivities. I'm sure you already have a guild or two picked out, and once you finish extorting your friends into the ground, don't forget to post your unboxings on the thread.
All the Tracks have been solved and can be found below. Thanks mtggo and Vinzito for your help in compiling the Tracks. Track Information:
Clan Defiance
Ooze Flux
High Priest Penance
Treasury Thrull
Undercity Plague
Rubblehulk
Angelic Skirmisher
Clan Defiance
Thespian’s Stage
Immortal Servitude
Realmwright
High Priest of Penance
Gruul Ragebeast
Ooze Flux
Signal the Clans
Five-Alarm Fire
Rubblehulk
Rubblebelt Raiders
Undercity Plague
Immortal Servitude
Ooze Flux
Angelic Skirmisher
Signal the Clans
High Priest of Penance
Rubblebelt Raider
Watery Grave
Alms Beast
Realmwright
Angelic Skirmisher
Immortal Servitude
Treasury Thrull
Signal the Clans
Undercity Plague
Five-Alarm Fire
Gruul Ragebeast
Alms Beast
Angelic Skirmisher
Thespians Stage
Signal the Clans
Rubblebelt Raiders
Spark Trooper (?)
Clan Defiance
(Watery Grave)
Gruul Ragebeast
Realmwright
Treasury Thrull
Rubblehulk
Thespian’s Stage
Alms Beast
High Priest of Penance
Five-Alarm Fire
Watery Grave
Gruul Beast
Realmwright
Treasury Thrull
Rubblehulk
Thespian’s Stage
Alms Beast
High Priest of Penance
Five-Alarm Fire
(Watery Grave
(Spark Trooper
(Undercity Plague)
Clan Defiance
Alms Beast
Ooze Flux
Rubblehulk
Realmwright
Rubblebelt Raiders
Thespian's Stage
Gruul Ragebeast
Treasury Thrull
Watery Grave
Immortal Servitude
Five-Alarm Fire
It would seem that there is an open discussion on the ethics surrounding box mapping. At the moment, it appears that we may not be able to discuss this topic come Dragon's Maze. For the time being, I am waiting for the thread to unlock. Once it does, I will provide a link. Until then, I suggest that we keep this thread centered on solving the map and leave the ethical issues for other threads.
Edits:
1-31-13 Added a data file provided by CanadianGreenBeret. Thanks, again, for contributing this.
2-1-13: Added the second track provided by mtggo, changed the example to a Gatecrash box. Added the Partial Track Information.
2-2-13: Found another Sequence of Tracks. Updated the Track list.
2-3-13: Compiled my list and mtggo's list to form 4 nearly completed Tracks. Track C is currently a train wreck.
2-6-13: Fixed Track C. All Tracks should be accurate now. Thanks, mtggo and Vinzito for contributing your maps as well as everyone that contributed box data.
During the RTR period I have learned about this technique and wanted to contribute. I wrote a program that might be useful to those who do the mapping by hand. My goal was to have it solve the map automatically but I am not there yet (open for suggestions, just pm me). Here is a sample of the results I got from the RTR xlsl file :
(ok or !ok) <card name>-<followed by>:<#occurances>
These are the top results. Obviously it is not the whole map but most of it is accurate if you compare it to the real map. This was extracted from 97 boxes of data using a rudimentary technique. It takes no assumption based on the tracks or the sequences so it should be improvable. Again if you have suggestions I'm open to try them.
One last point, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE pay attention to the syntax when writing cards to a document. It needs to be the exact name on gatherer otherwise it makes it quite hard for the program to figure out what the cards are and I will usually reject the boxes/fix the data manually (sucks).
Great news! I'm glad to see computer science taking the guess work out of mapping. Just out of curiosity, will the program solve the tracks in the event they switch the order of the tracks? Additionally, have you considered going through the old sets and determining the foil distribution algorithm?
That was the idea at first. I tried to figure out the tracks without inputting the sequence or any relevant assumptions based on the current print technology. However it does not seem simple as row inversion introduces a lot of noise.
Maybe Vinzito figured it out. I know I haven't yet
Okay guys first box towards the mapping project.
Vinzito, any chance you are willing to release your mapping method?
The program that solves the box maps? It's just a whole mess of code. It factors in all of the things we know about row shifting, pack removals and same-track card swapping.
Right now I have it locked in to our old track sequence to save time, but it can find a new one if need be with any number of tracks.
Thanks for getting us started. I've been home programming all day Saturday while the wife was out doing the prerelease event.
I saw your video Vinzito on M13. Good stuff. I'm glad you took the time to program an app for the sets. Have you put any thought into how the foils are currently being placed into boxes? I was thinking of going back through RTR and seeing if I could find patterns in the cases. They apparently come from sheets similar to the foils. Maybe they run different tracks for Common/Uncommon/Rare&Mythic rares.
Actually, now that I think about it, I'm going to check the cases to see if they follow the pattern of any of the rare tracks.
The program that solves the box maps? It's just a whole mess of code. It factors in all of the things we know about row shifting, pack removals and same-track card swapping.
Right now I have it locked in to our old track sequence to save time, but it can find a new one if need be with any number of tracks.
Thanks for getting us started. I've been home programming all day Saturday while the wife was out doing the prerelease event.
Just watched your vid, that is very impressive... will def buying the GTC app from you once its released!
just watched your video as i'm interested in this box mapping and was very impressed with what i saw if i owned a phone that could use apps your box mapping apps would be the first ones i'd add. great service and looking forward to gtc edition
The program that solves the box maps? It's just a whole mess of code. It factors in all of the things we know about row shifting, pack removals and same-track card swapping.
Right now I have it locked in to our old track sequence to save time, but it can find a new one if need be with any number of tracks.
Thanks for getting us started. I've been home programming all day Saturday while the wife was out doing the prerelease event.
I was just thinking, would it be too difficult/not rewarding enough to develop this into your apps, in order to have a DYNAMIC path to opening the fewest packs to having the complete box mapped.
Also, is the data consistent enough to add support for opening cases?
So, is it odd that two mythics were next to each other on the same row?
This is actually exceptional news. This might suggest they used the same order for the tracks as RTR.
It's good to see so much interest in providing box data. Try to get your friends to list out their boxes as well. The more boxes we can record after release, the faster we can determine the tracks.
Also, there still seem to two open questions as far as mapping goes, for anyone wanting to take a crack at them.
1. How are double faced cards distributed?
2. How are foils distributed?
Have you put any thought into how the foils are currently being placed into boxes? I was thinking of going back through RTR and seeing if I could find patterns in the cases. They apparently come from sheets similar to the foils. Maybe they run different tracks for Common/Uncommon/Rare&Mythic rares.
Actually, now that I think about it, I'm going to check the cases to see if they follow the pattern of any of the rare tracks.
I worked on this (foils) for RTR. It's actually one of the easier methods to determine row shift, if you're working with full boxes. The brief version, (I don't feel like digging through the RTR mapping thread for it) is: Commons occur every 8 packs, Uncommons every 20, and Rares every 32. Rares occur 2 pack before commons, uncommons are 1 pack before (when they match, 20 doesn't divide into 8 well). There's also occasionally foils which I couldn't predict.
Commons, Uncommons, and Rare foils do follow patterns. It's easiest to find with commons as you have enough data in a single box. For UC and Rares, you need several (ie a case). There are perks to this, in that maps have followed from box to box in a case. I have yet to determine a pattern within a case, mainly due to lack of foil case data for RTR. (I found 2 among the 100+ boxes) The best tip I can offer is try really really hard to find pictures of foil uncut sheets. There was one for M13 and I think one cropped up for RTR later on. They're given away as prizes at some events, and it's a piece of cake to work from those.
As for GTC, from the info so far, dnelegend's box seems to follow the foil pattern perfectly, with rows 7 and 8 switched. Not as sure about thatsnailguy's box. (No offense meant, sometimes these things get completely garbled.)
And, on a personal note, if anyone's willing to record common's/uncommons data, I'd be super appreciative. There was a bit of data in the RTR mapping and it got me interested. Unfortunately, a box isn't a ton of data to work with (2-3 on the other hand might be). If you do, it's easier in my opinion to record card number rather than write out each name, but I'd take anything I can get. If you just want to record UC, I'll take it, heck I'll even take individual pack data for commons (PM me that, I doubt everyone here wants the spam)
I'm fairly new to Magic and have never seen the work people have done on this before. I've preordered an entire case for Gatecrash, what sort of information would you guys be after specifically?
We're basically looking for the rares and their positions in the boxes. Use the sheet on the original post to record their positions and any foils that you come across. As far as Case data goes, I think they are ordered:
1 3 5
2 4 6
I'm not 100% sure on the case order of boxes, but mappers should be able to figure out the box order after we solve the rare map.
Qwerty59 has also asked for common/uncommon information, if you are interested on doing the book keeping on them. It would be time consuming but exceptionally helpful for determining how commons/uncommons are distributed.
Also, Qwerty59, thanks for the information about the foils. I went back and took a look at a few boxes, and your map holds up. Maybe with some luck we'll get more case data for gatecrash.
I'm afraid I don't know the slightest about Belgium box mapping, other than I think they cracked Innistrad before we determined the U.S.A.'s map. Ross' book might still apply, but I would start with reading through all the RTR posts. That should teach you how to map the modern boxes.
For anyone posting box information, it will greatly help everyone working on the map if you could post which sleeve each rare came from.
With this information we should be able to complete the map extremely quickly.
For example, you could mark each card with the first initial of the guild that the sleeve belongs to, (G.D.S.O.B. for the Gruul, Dimir, Simic, Orzhov or Boros guild sleeve.)
Or you can use anything to represent each sleeve (numbers if you want) as long as it is consistent through that particular box.
For anyone posting box information, it will greatly help everyone working on the map if you could post which sleeve each rare came from.
With this information we should be able to complete the map extremely quickly.
For example, you could mark each card with the first initial of the guild that the sleeve belongs to, (G.D.S.O.B. for the Gruul, Dimir, Simic, Orzhov or Boros guild sleeve.)
Or you can use anything to represent each sleeve (numbers if you want) as long as it is consistent through that particular box.
I have two more boxes on preorder, should be able to crack them tomorrow. Good job thinking of that, it sounds so simple, yet no one gave it any attention. Anywho, should I "Solve" the pack art pattern before posting. Or post as packaged.
I have two more boxes on preorder, should be able to crack them tomorrow. Good job thinking of that, it sounds so simple, yet no one gave it any attention. Anywho, should I "Solve" the pack art pattern before posting. Or post as packaged.
Go ahead and post it as packaged - just incase we find more than one possibility as far as where the rows can shift. It's not too likely with this set, but you never know. The 3 sleeve sets are a little more tricky in this regard.
This is bad and retarded, you sell those boosters knowing it's almost sure nothings there? That's ******* of you, I hope wizards do something about it
I really don't think someone would stay in business very long doing that. I don't remember anyone here said they were selling packs without telling people what they were getting.
Most people draft with them. I have a group of friends that like to come over and do really cheap drafts with the mapped packs. They all know they have been mapped ahead of time. We just play for fun and practice.
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-Galspanic
Hey guys, I'm fairly new to the forums, but I figure with pre-release coming this weekend, I should go ahead and create a Box Mapping thread for Gatecrash. In keeping with tradition, here is a quote from Mr. Smiley who normally starts these threads:
"This is not a brag thread, or a "fishing for trades" thread; we're all happy for you that you opened high value cards--but if you cant give us a list of the entire box, in order, it doesn't help us decode the rare map.
The same goes for "I opened a box but didn't keep track of the order, and got..."--again, doesn't help, spams the thread."
For anyone new to mapping, Ross Edwards deserves some recognition for writing a rather in-depth review of Box Mapping. While some of the basic principles of his mapping technique remain the same, WotC have implemented a new algorithm for the sorting of rares. As far as I have surmised, all the rares and mythic rares come from two sheets of 11x11 cards. If we use the same sorting algorithm from Innistrad, Avacyn Restored, and Return to Ravinca, the 11 x 11 sheets are cut into 4 tracks. These are represented by Tracks A-D. The tracks are then distributed in booster packs in the following order:
A B D A B D D A A B C A C D C C B D C B D C
or
D B C C D A D C A B C C B B D D A A D B C A
or
C A D B C C A D B C A D B C A D D B C A D B
or
C B A D D C B A D B C A D D C B A D C C B A
(Thanks mtggo)
Each track has a few characteristics that we can use to determine which cards will be in each Track. Track A usually contains two copies of 15 mythic rares with 4 copies of 6 different rares and 1 copy of a rare in Track B (usually a land or artifact). Track B contains 13 rares appearing 4 times with 3 of the remaining copies of the rare found in track A. Track C and D contain 16 rares appearing 4 times, in each, with two copies of one rare in each. As such, Track A and B both have 55 cards total while C and D have 66 cards total. If this explanation is confusing, here is an example from Innistrad:
Track A: 15 Mythics appearing twice + 6 rares appearing 4 times + 1 Kessig Wolf Run = 55 Cards
Track B: 13 Rares appearing 4 times + other 3 Kessig Wolf Run = 55 Cards
Track C: 16 Rares appearing 4 times + 2 Evil Twin = 66 Cards
Track D: 16 Rares appearing 4 times + 2 Evil Twin = 66 Cards
Additionally, each box undergoes double displacement of rows. This usually occurs on the 1st and 7th row (often two rows, say 3 and 10, are removed and placed on top and in the 7th row). This would change the order of cards from 1-12 to 3, 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 10, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12. If you are attempting to map the box, it's relatively safe to assume that rows 4-6 and 11-12 are in the correct location (though not always).
Before you begin mapping your box, watch this video by Vinzito describing how to put your cards in order.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh1Q3WLe_iE
When you list your boxes, indicate the guild pictured on the front of the pack or the last digit on the barcode. (If you don't have the pack's number, that's fine, but it will help speed up the mapping process.)
The numbers that are associated with each image are as follows:
Boros Guildmage: 15049807000001
Vizkopa Guildmage: 15049807000002
Prime Speaker Zegana: 15049807000003
Skarrg Guildmage: 15049807000004
Duskmantle Guildmage: 15049807000005
In an effort to develop some standardization for inputting cards, please follow the format below that includes mythic rares in red and foils in parentheses(As a disclaimer, remember that bold red posts are reserved for moderators). The numbers in parentheses represent the guild or last digit of the bar code discussed above.
Left Column:
(1) Clan Defiance
(4) Borborygmos Enraged
(2) Sepulchral Primordial
(5) Rubblehulk
(3) Fathom Mage (Bomber Corps)
(1) Merciless Eviction
(4) Rubblebelt Raiders
(2) Mind Grind
(5) Crypt Ghast
(3) Treasury Thrull
(1) Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
(4) Luminate Primordial
Center Column:
(5) Hellkite Tyrant (Ground Assault)
(3) Sacred Foundry (Enter the Infinite)
(1) Ooze Flux
(4) Whispering Madness
(2) Simic Manipulator
(5) Nightveil Specter
(3) Realmwright
(1) Ogre Slumlord (Island #258)
(4) Wrecking Ogre
(2) Gruul Ragebeast
(5) Biovisionary
(3) Molten Primordial
Right Column:
(4) Stolen Identity
(2) Stomping Ground
(5) Alms Beast (Skyblinder Staff)
(3) Frontline Medic
(1)Sylvan Primordial
(4) Gideon, Champion of Justice
(2) Obzedat, Ghost Council
(5) Legion Loyalist (Gateway Shade)
(3) Thespian’s Stage
(1) Godless Shrine
(4) Boros Reckoner (Forced Adaptation)
(2) Watery Grave
These are listed Top to Bottom for each Row.
Remember to provide the Country and Language that the box was printed in (Usually, Belgium or U.S.A.)
Finally, double check your Spelling for card names. The more accurate your spelling, the faster we can produce the map.
Furthermore if you have cases, please list them as described by Mr. Smiley in the RTR thread:
"If you're giving a full case list (yay!), the boxes are most times loaded in the case bottom-side up, for ease of barcode scanning; let us know if your case is not loaded that way. The 6-4-2-5-3-1 Ross refers to is--I think--the order the boxes are loaded in the case; with the front of the boxes facing right, the machines load boxes into cases in this order: bottom right(1), top right(2), bottom middle(3), top middle(4), bottom left(5), top left(6). If you're giving a full case list, please number your boxes so our database crunchers can attempt to use the multi-box data."
I realize that writing down each rare that comes out of a pack in order is a bit of a pain. However, each box we get brings us closer to developing an accurate map.
In closing, have fun in the upcoming pre-release festivities. I'm sure you already have a guild or two picked out, and once you finish extorting your friends into the ground, don't forget to post your unboxings on the thread.
All the Tracks have been solved and can be found below. Thanks mtggo and Vinzito for your help in compiling the Tracks.
Track Information:
Track A: 15 Mythics appearing twice + 6 rares appearing 4 times + 1 Stolen Identity = 55 Cards
Track B: 13 Rares appearing 4 times + other 3 Stolen Identity = 55 Cards
Track C: 16 Rares appearing 4 times + 2 Spark Trooper = 66 Cards
Track D: 16 Rares appearing 4 times + 2 Spark Trooper = 66 Cards
Track A:
Glaring Spotlight
Whispering Madness
Enter the Infinite
Borborygmos Enraged
Mind Grind
Aurelia’s Fury
Godless Shrine
Giant Adephage
Master Biomancer
Glaring Spotlight
Obzedat, Ghost Council
Consuming Aberration
Deathpact Angel
Hellkite Tyrant
Borborygmos Enraged
Whispering Madness
Gideon, Champion of Justice
Obzedat, Ghost Council
Mind Grind
Godless Shrine
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
Lord of the Void
Soul Ransom
Gideon, Champion of Justice
Prime Speaker Zegana
Mind Grind
Glaring Spotlight
Aurelia’s Fury
Consuming Aberation
Godless Shrine
Deathpact Angel
Soul Ransom
Aurelia, the Warleader
Duskmantle Seer
Stolen Identity
Prime Speaker Zegana
Glaring Spotlight
Domri Rade
Giant Adephage
Soul Ransom
Whispering Madness
Aurelia, the Warleader
Consuming Aberration
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
Hellkite Tyrant
Master Biomancer
Lord of the Void
Whispering Madness
Mind Grind
Enter the Infinite
Domri Rade
Consuming Aberration
Soul Ransom
Godless Shrine
Duskmantle Seer
Illusionist’s Bracers
Mystic Genesis
Biovisionary
Breeding Pool
Wrecking Ogre
Unexpected Results
Biomass Mutation
Stolen Identity
Stomping Ground
Frontline Medic
Fathom Mage
Merciless Eviction
Ogre Slumlord
Wrecking Ogre
Biovisionary
Gyre Sage
Unexpected Results
Stolen Identity
Mystic Genesis
Frontline Medic
Wrecking Ogre
Stomping Ground
Gyre Sage
Merciless Eviction
Illusionist’s Bracers
Fathom Mage
Ogre Slumlord
Breeding Pool
Unexpected Results
Stomping Ground
Biovisionary
Illusionist’s Bracers
Biomass Mutation?
Fathom Mage
Stolen Identity
Breeding Pool
Frontline Medic
Gyre Sage
Ogre Slumlord
Biovisionary
Merciless Eviction
Stomping Ground
Mystic Genesis
Biomass Mutation
Gyre Sage
Illusionist’s Bracers
Breeding Pool
Fathom Mage
Wrecking Ogre
Mystic Genesis
Unexpected Results
Ogre Slumlord
Biomass Mutation
Merciless Eviction
Frontline Medic
Sepulchral Primordial
Sylvan Primordial
Simic Manipulator
Nightveil Specter
Legion Loyalist
Crypt Ghast
Boros Reckoner
Molten Primordial
Luminate Primordial
Skarrg Goliath
Foundry Champion
Diluvian Primordial
Crypt Ghast
Firemane Avenger
Molten Primordial
Sepulchral Primordial
Nightveil Specter
Sacred Foundry
Diluvian Primordial
Legion Loyalist
Assemble the Legion
Skarrg Goliath
Boros Reckoner
Luminate Primordial
Foundry Champion
Sylvan Primordial
Nightveil Specter
Firemane Avenger
Assemble the Legion
Sacred Foundry
Luminate Primordial
Sepulchral Primordial
Simic Manipulator
Skarrg Goliath
Blind Obediance
Boros Reckoner
Legion Loyalist
Firemane Avenger
Sacred Foundry
Crypt Ghast
Assemble the Legion
Simic Manipulator
Molten Primordial
Blind Obedience
Spark Trooper
Foundry Champion
Legion Loyalist
Skarrg Goliath
Dilavion Primordial
Sepulchral Primordial
Assemble the Legion
Blind Obediance
Sylvan Primordial
Boros Reckoner
Firemane Avenger
Diulvian Primordial
Nightveil Spector
Luminate Primordial
Spark Trooper
Sylvan Primordial
Crypt Ghast
Simic Manipulator
Blind Obedience
Foundry Champion
Molten Primordial
Sacred Foundry
Clan Defiance
Ooze Flux
High Priest Penance
Treasury Thrull
Undercity Plague
Rubblehulk
Angelic Skirmisher
Clan Defiance
Thespian’s Stage
Immortal Servitude
Realmwright
High Priest of Penance
Gruul Ragebeast
Ooze Flux
Signal the Clans
Five-Alarm Fire
Rubblehulk
Rubblebelt Raiders
Undercity Plague
Immortal Servitude
Ooze Flux
Angelic Skirmisher
Signal the Clans
High Priest of Penance
Rubblebelt Raider
Watery Grave
Alms Beast
Realmwright
Angelic Skirmisher
Immortal Servitude
Treasury Thrull
Signal the Clans
Undercity Plague
Five-Alarm Fire
Gruul Ragebeast
Alms Beast
Angelic Skirmisher
Thespians Stage
Signal the Clans
Rubblebelt Raiders
Spark Trooper (?)
Clan Defiance
(Watery Grave)
Gruul Ragebeast
Realmwright
Treasury Thrull
Rubblehulk
Thespian’s Stage
Alms Beast
High Priest of Penance
Five-Alarm Fire
Watery Grave
Gruul Beast
Realmwright
Treasury Thrull
Rubblehulk
Thespian’s Stage
Alms Beast
High Priest of Penance
Five-Alarm Fire
(Watery Grave
(Spark Trooper
(Undercity Plague)
Clan Defiance
Alms Beast
Ooze Flux
Rubblehulk
Realmwright
Rubblebelt Raiders
Thespian's Stage
Gruul Ragebeast
Treasury Thrull
Watery Grave
Immortal Servitude
Five-Alarm Fire
It would seem that there is an open discussion on the ethics surrounding box mapping. At the moment, it appears that we may not be able to discuss this topic come Dragon's Maze. For the time being, I am waiting for the thread to unlock. Once it does, I will provide a link. Until then, I suggest that we keep this thread centered on solving the map and leave the ethical issues for other threads.
Edits:
1-31-13 Added a data file provided by CanadianGreenBeret. Thanks, again, for contributing this.
2-1-13: Added the second track provided by mtggo, changed the example to a Gatecrash box. Added the Partial Track Information.
2-2-13: Found another Sequence of Tracks. Updated the Track list.
2-3-13: Compiled my list and mtggo's list to form 4 nearly completed Tracks. Track C is currently a train wreck.
2-6-13: Fixed Track C. All Tracks should be accurate now. Thanks, mtggo and Vinzito for contributing your maps as well as everyone that contributed box data.
During the RTR period I have learned about this technique and wanted to contribute. I wrote a program that might be useful to those who do the mapping by hand. My goal was to have it solve the map automatically but I am not there yet (open for suggestions, just pm me). Here is a sample of the results I got from the RTR xlsl file :
(ok or !ok) <card name>-<followed by>:<#occurances>
( ok) Blood Crypt-Search the City:183
( ok) Supreme Verdict-Cyclonic Rift:77
( ok) Chaos Imps-Palisade Giant:71
( ok) Underworld Connections-Blood Crypt:66
( ok) Loxodon Smiter-Ash Zealot:65
( ok) Collective Blessing-Growing Ranks:65
( ok) Hallowed Fountain-Precinct Captain:62
( ok) Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius-Carnival Hellsteed:61
(!ok) Abrupt Decay-Volatile Rig:61
( ok) Wayfaring Temple-Collective Blessing:59
(!ok) Volatile Rig-Counterflux:58
( ok) Chaos Imps-Collective Blessing:54
( ok) Palisade Giant-Loxodon Smiter:54
( ok) Growing Ranks-Chaos Imps:54
( ok) Loxodon Smiter-Chaos Imps:53
These are the top results. Obviously it is not the whole map but most of it is accurate if you compare it to the real map. This was extracted from 97 boxes of data using a rudimentary technique. It takes no assumption based on the tracks or the sequences so it should be improvable. Again if you have suggestions I'm open to try them.
One last point, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE pay attention to the syntax when writing cards to a document. It needs to be the exact name on gatherer otherwise it makes it quite hard for the program to figure out what the cards are and I will usually reject the boxes/fix the data manually (sucks).
Let's do this
I only used boxes with sleeve data.
Track A:
Consuming_Aberration
Soul_Ransom
Godless_Shrine
Duskmantle_Seer
Glaring_Spotlight
Whispering_Madness
Enter_the_Infinite
Borborygmos_Enraged
Mind_Grind
Aurelias_Fury
Godless_Shrine
Giant_Adephage
Master_Biomancer
Glaring_Spotlight
Obzedat_Ghost_Council
Consuming_Aberration
Deathpact_Angel
Hellkite_Tyrant
Borborygmos_Enraged
Whispering_Madness
Gideon_Champion_of_Justice
Obzedat_Ghost_Council
Mind_Grind
Godless_Shrine
Lazav_Dimir_Mastermind
Lord_of_the_Void
Soul_Ransom
Gideon_Champion_of_Justice
Prime_Speaker_Zegana
Mind_Grind
Glaring_Spotlight
Aurelias_Fury
Consuming_Aberration
Godless_Shrine
Deathpact_Angel
Soul_Ransom
Aurelia_the_Warleader
Duskmantle_Seer
Stolen_Identity
Prime_Speaker_Zegana
Glaring_Spotlight
Domri_Rade
Giant_Adephage
Soul_Ransom
Whispering_Madness
Aurelia_the_Warleader
Consuming_Aberration
Lazav_Dimir_Mastermind
Hellkite_Tyrant
Master_Biomancer
Lord_of_the_Void
Whispering_Madness
Mind_Grind
Enter_the_Infinite
Domri_Rade
Track B:
Ogre_Slumlord
Biomass_Mutation
Merciless_Eviction
Frontline_Medic
Illusionists_Bracers
Mystic_Genesis
Biovisionary
Breeding_Pool
Wrecking_Ogre
Unexpected_Results
Biomass_Mutation
Stolen_Identity
Stomping_Ground
Frontline_Medic
Fathom_Mage
Merciless_Eviction
Ogre_Slumlord
Wrecking_Ogre
Biovisionary
Gyre_Sage
Unexpected_Results
Stolen_Identity
Mystic_Genesis
Frontline_Medic
Wrecking_Ogre
Stomping_Ground
Gyre_Sage
Merciless_Eviction
Illusionists_Bracers
Fathom_Mage
Ogre_Slumlord
Breeding_Pool
Unexpected_Results
Stomping_Ground
Biovisionary
Illusionists_Bracers
Biomass_Mutation
Fathom_Mage
Stolen_Identity
Breeding_Pool
Frontline_Medic
Gyre_Sage
Ogre_Slumlord
Biovisionary
Merciless_Eviction
Stomping_Ground
Mystic_Genesis
Biomass_Mutation
Gyre_Sage
Illusionists_Bracers
Breeding_Pool
Fathom_Mage
Wrecking_Ogre
Mystic_Genesis
Unexpected_Results
Track C:
Blind_Obedience
Foundry_Champion
Molten_Primordial
Sacred_Foundry
Sepulchral_Primordial
Sylvan_Primordial
Simic_Manipulator
Nightveil_Specter
Legion_Loyalist
Crypt_Ghast
Boros_Reckoner
Molten_Primordial
Luminate_Primordial
Skarrg_Goliath
Foundry_Champion
Diluvian_Primordial
Crypt_Ghast
Firemane_Avenger
Molten_Primordial
Sepulchral_Primordial
Nightveil_Specter
Sacred_Foundry
Diluvian_Primordial
Legion_Loyalist
Assemble_the_Legion
Skarrg_Goliath
Boros_Reckoner
Luminate_Primordial
Foundry_Champion
Sylvan_Primordial
Nightveil_Specter
Firemane_Avenger
Assemble_the_Legion
Sacred_Foundry
Luminate_Primordial
Sepulchral_Primordial
Simic_Manipulator
Skarrg_Goliath
Blind_Obedience
Boros_Reckoner
Legion_Loyalist
Firemane_Avenger
Sacred_Foundry
Crypt_Ghast
Assemble_the_Legion
Simic_Manipulator
Molten_Primordial
Blind_Obedience
Spark_Trooper
Foundry_Champion
Legion_Loyalist
Skarrg_Goliath
Diluvian_Primordial
Sepulchral_Primordial
Assemble_the_Legion
Blind_Obedience
Sylvan_Primordial
Boros_Reckoner
Firemane_Avenger
Diluvian_Primordial
Nightveil_Specter
Luminate_Primordial
Spark_Trooper
Sylvan_Primordial
Crypt_Ghast
Simic_Manipulator
Track D:
Clan_Defiance
Ooze_Flux
High_Priest_of_Penance
Treasury_Thrull
Undercity_Plague
Rubblehulk
Angelic_Skirmisher
Clan_Defiance
Thespians_Stage
Immortal_Servitude
Realmwright
High_Priest_of_Penance
Gruul_Ragebeast
Ooze_Flux
Signal_the_Clans
Five_Alarm_Fire
Rubblehulk
Rubblebelt_Raiders
Undercity_Plague
Immortal_Servitude
Ooze_Flux
Angelic_Skirmisher
Signal_the_Clans
High_Priest_of_Penance
Rubblebelt_Raiders
Watery_Grave
Alms_Beast
Realmwright
Angelic_Skirmisher
Immortal_Servitude
Treasury_Thrull
Signal_the_Clans
Undercity_Plague
Five_Alarm_Fire
Gruul_Ragebeast
Alms_Beast
Angelic_Skirmisher
Thespians_Stage
Signal_the_Clans
Rubblebelt_Raiders
Spark_Trooper
Clan_Defiance
Watery_Grave
Gruul_Ragebeast
Realmwright
Treasury_Thrull
Rubblehulk
Thespians_Stage
Alms_Beast
High_Priest_of_Penance
Five_Alarm_Fire
Watery_Grave
Spark_Trooper
Undercity_Plague
Clan_Defiance
Alms_Beast
Ooze_Flux
Rubblehulk
Realmwright
Rubblebelt_Raiders
Thespians_Stage
Gruul_Ragebeast
Treasury_Thrull
Watery_Grave
Immortal_Servitude
Five_Alarm_Fire
Maybe Vinzito figured it out. I know I haven't yet
Vinzito, any chance you are willing to release your mapping method?
Illusionist's Bracers
Sacred Foundry
Stomping Ground
Alms Beast
Godless Shrine
Realmwright (Orzhov Charm)
Watery Grave
Soul Ransom
Legion Loyalist
Duskmantle Seer
Thespian's Stage
Molten Primordial
Rubblehulk
Molten Primordial
Clan Defiance
Consuming Aberration
Sylvan Primordial (Forest #270)
Deathpact Angel
Treasury Thrull (Plains #280)
Nightveil Specter
Fathom Mage
Aurelia, the Warleader
Boros Reckoner
Breeding Pool
Ooze Flux
Unexpected Results (Whispering Madness)
Aurelia's Fury
Sepulchral Primordial
Biovisionary
Simic Manipulator
Stolen Identity
Biomass Mutation (Cloudfin Raptor)
Rubblebelt Raiders
Crypt Ghast
Stolen Identity
Gruul Ragebeast
The program that solves the box maps? It's just a whole mess of code. It factors in all of the things we know about row shifting, pack removals and same-track card swapping.
Right now I have it locked in to our old track sequence to save time, but it can find a new one if need be with any number of tracks.
Thanks for getting us started. I've been home programming all day Saturday while the wife was out doing the prerelease event.
Actually, now that I think about it, I'm going to check the cases to see if they follow the pattern of any of the rare tracks.
will post list ASAP
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Just watched your vid, that is very impressive... will def buying the GTC app from you once its released!
I was just thinking, would it be too difficult/not rewarding enough to develop this into your apps, in order to have a DYNAMIC path to opening the fewest packs to having the complete box mapped.
Also, is the data consistent enough to add support for opening cases?
I agree. I always go to these threads. I love attempting to see the patterns involved. I will also try to post mine next weekend.
Here's hoping I do much better than I did than with my last box I cracked back for Innistrad. I had the worst one imaginable.
Rubblehulk (Executioner's Swing Common)
Luminate Primordial (Plains)
Skarrg Goliath
mystic genesis
prime speaker zegana
biomass mutation
firemane avenger
realmwright
grull ragebeast (slate street ruffian common)
illusionist's bracers
breeding pool
signal the clans
Middle
molten primordial
angelic skirmisher
merciless eviction
stomping ground (crocanura common)
thespian's stage
immortal servitude (realmwright rare)
crypt ghast
glaring spotlight
aurelia's fury (ordruun veteran uncommon)
consumming aberration
nightveil specter
ooze flux (hydroform common)
Right
boros reckoner
soul ransom
gideon, champion of justice
foundry champion
clan defiance
mind grind
gyre sage
diluvian primordial (gruul guildgate common)
high priest of penance
molten primordial
sepulchral primordial
fathom mage
This is actually exceptional news. This might suggest they used the same order for the tracks as RTR.
It's good to see so much interest in providing box data. Try to get your friends to list out their boxes as well. The more boxes we can record after release, the faster we can determine the tracks.
Also, there still seem to two open questions as far as mapping goes, for anyone wanting to take a crack at them.
1. How are double faced cards distributed?
2. How are foils distributed?
Post your theories, if you have them.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
I worked on this (foils) for RTR. It's actually one of the easier methods to determine row shift, if you're working with full boxes. The brief version, (I don't feel like digging through the RTR mapping thread for it) is: Commons occur every 8 packs, Uncommons every 20, and Rares every 32. Rares occur 2 pack before commons, uncommons are 1 pack before (when they match, 20 doesn't divide into 8 well). There's also occasionally foils which I couldn't predict.
Commons, Uncommons, and Rare foils do follow patterns. It's easiest to find with commons as you have enough data in a single box. For UC and Rares, you need several (ie a case). There are perks to this, in that maps have followed from box to box in a case. I have yet to determine a pattern within a case, mainly due to lack of foil case data for RTR. (I found 2 among the 100+ boxes) The best tip I can offer is try really really hard to find pictures of foil uncut sheets. There was one for M13 and I think one cropped up for RTR later on. They're given away as prizes at some events, and it's a piece of cake to work from those.
As for GTC, from the info so far, dnelegend's box seems to follow the foil pattern perfectly, with rows 7 and 8 switched. Not as sure about thatsnailguy's box. (No offense meant, sometimes these things get completely garbled.)
And, on a personal note, if anyone's willing to record common's/uncommons data, I'd be super appreciative. There was a bit of data in the RTR mapping and it got me interested. Unfortunately, a box isn't a ton of data to work with (2-3 on the other hand might be). If you do, it's easier in my opinion to record card number rather than write out each name, but I'd take anything I can get. If you just want to record UC, I'll take it, heck I'll even take individual pack data for commons (PM me that, I doubt everyone here wants the spam)
We're basically looking for the rares and their positions in the boxes. Use the sheet on the original post to record their positions and any foils that you come across. As far as Case data goes, I think they are ordered:
1 3 5
2 4 6
I'm not 100% sure on the case order of boxes, but mappers should be able to figure out the box order after we solve the rare map.
Qwerty59 has also asked for common/uncommon information, if you are interested on doing the book keeping on them. It would be time consuming but exceptionally helpful for determining how commons/uncommons are distributed.
Also, Qwerty59, thanks for the information about the foils. I went back and took a look at a few boxes, and your map holds up. Maybe with some luck we'll get more case data for gatecrash.
I'm afraid I don't know the slightest about Belgium box mapping, other than I think they cracked Innistrad before we determined the U.S.A.'s map. Ross' book might still apply, but I would start with reading through all the RTR posts. That should teach you how to map the modern boxes.
I've recorded a demonstration:
How to prepare a MTG booster box for card mapping
For anyone posting box information, it will greatly help everyone working on the map if you could post which sleeve each rare came from.
With this information we should be able to complete the map extremely quickly.
For example, you could mark each card with the first initial of the guild that the sleeve belongs to, (G.D.S.O.B. for the Gruul, Dimir, Simic, Orzhov or Boros guild sleeve.)
Or you can use anything to represent each sleeve (numbers if you want) as long as it is consistent through that particular box.
Fixed link. Nice work.
EDIT: And by "nice work" I mean good pattern recognition on the wrapper images.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
Magic CompRules
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
I have two more boxes on preorder, should be able to crack them tomorrow. Good job thinking of that, it sounds so simple, yet no one gave it any attention. Anywho, should I "Solve" the pack art pattern before posting. Or post as packaged.
Go ahead and post it as packaged - just incase we find more than one possibility as far as where the rows can shift. It's not too likely with this set, but you never know. The 3 sleeve sets are a little more tricky in this regard.
I really don't think someone would stay in business very long doing that. I don't remember anyone here said they were selling packs without telling people what they were getting.
Most people draft with them. I have a group of friends that like to come over and do really cheap drafts with the mapped packs. They all know they have been mapped ahead of time. We just play for fun and practice.