For me, the fun is in the mapping so I map by hand. So I have a couple quick questions!
1. There are 4 track orders in the OP. Is this the case for GTC? I remember RTR only having 1 track order (I think it was A B D A B D D A A B C A C D C C B D C B D C).
2. In track D, there are some extra cards in parenthesis. Why are they in parenthesis? It seems there are also 9 more cards in track D than track C. Is that correct?
For me, the fun is in the mapping so I map by hand. So I have a couple quick questions!
1. There are 4 track orders in the OP. Is this the case for GTC? I remember RTR only having 1 track order (I think it was A B D A B D D A A B C A C D C C B D C B D C).
2. In track D, there are some extra cards in parenthesis. Why are they in parenthesis? It seems there are also 9 more cards in track D than track C. Is that correct?
Thanks!!
Yes, it can be any one of those 4 track sequences, you'll figure it out as you open packs.
I was wondering if it would be better to always try to fix row shifting on a box or a possible pack removal? Or does the recent version or the app will do it for you anyway with the least amount of opened packs?
For GTC and RTR the distribution was figured out by qwerty59.
If you happen to open a foil rare you can know the location of the second foil rare if you happen to have one of the few boxes that has a second foil rare. You will also know the location of the foil commons.
If you open a foil common you know the location of all of the foil commons, and have a 25% chance of guessing correctly where the rare(s) are.
If you open a foil uncommon you will know the location of the second foil uncommon. And have a 50% of guessing where the foil rare(s) are and a 50% chance of guessing where all of the foil commons are.
Unfortunately it's not too practical. Mostly because there is usually only one foil rare in the box, and you won't know what it is until you've opened it.
But I may at least add this little bit in to the program at some point.
Personally, I'd just like to be able to tell which packs are likely to contain foils. I haven't had much luck applying the information qwerty laid out.
Vinzito, I got the app and while I'm waiting for my boxes to arrive I was planning to start testing how the app works by mapping a box of GTC from random videos already on you tube. I did about 5 videos where guys just open a Box and although is tedious to watch half and hour just to get the sleeves order, at least its great to see the app predictions fall nicely until the end.
the app just cant figure out the mapping (the sleve map was done correctly as I checked twice) but after that when you try as little as 3-5 packs from wherever you want to start, it just says that it cant figure out the map.
Does the app needs more tweaking? Or is there something about the row swap or pack removal in this box that couldn't be predicted.
I'm buying a case of GTC to mess around with this app. Is there any more information needed or is it all figured out?
I plan on buying two cases of DM. One of them I will open at release and don't mind posting all the information to further the boxmapping for that one. How long on average would you guess it takes for the boxmap to be figured out before I open the second case?
Vinzito, I got the app and while I'm waiting for my boxes to arrive I was planning to start testing how the app works by mapping a box of GTC from random videos already on you tube. I did about 5 videos where guys just open a Box and although is tedious to watch half and hour just to get the sleeves order, at least its great to see the app predictions fall nicely until the end.
the app just cant figure out the mapping (the sleve map was done correctly as I checked twice) but after that when you try as little as 3-5 packs from wherever you want to start, it just says that it cant figure out the map.
Does the app needs more tweaking? Or is there something about the row swap or pack removal in this box that couldn't be predicted.
I looked at this one. It looks like the whole bottom row of that box (before any shifting happens) was completely wrong. Everything else lines up perfectly. So it looks like a factory glitch with those three packs.
I'm pretty sure we've got everything down 100%, it just comes down to the occasional factory hiccup. Anything with more than two pack removals will be a problem.
Someone reported back after opening 36 GTC boxes just recently, 34 were mappable using v1.1.6. I didn't get the details on those two boxes, but I would guess they are also factory glitches or packs could have moved in the box during shipment.
It looks like they are printing in Belgium again, so if anyone has any Belgium boxes, please post them. They are definitely different, but the packing order seems to be the same as the older Belgium sets.
This will be an open source project. Thus, i will give access to you guys to contribute in this project. I will fix some bugs and visual makeups then i will share git repository URL.
The project is still in Beta stage so please inform me if there's something wrong with it. Current features:
- Automatic sleeve ordering (seamless)
- Mapping
- Giving you track info and card prices
Hey guys, I'm fairly new to the forums, but I figure with pre-release coming this weekend, I should go ahead and create a Box Mapping thread for Gatecrash. In keeping with tradition, here is a quote from Mr. Smiley who normally starts these threads:
"This is not a brag thread, or a "fishing for trades" thread; we're all happy for you that you opened high value cards--but if you cant give us a list of the entire box, in order, it doesn't help us decode the rare map.
The same goes for "I opened a box but didn't keep track of the order, and got..."--again, doesn't help, spams the thread."
For anyone new to mapping, Ross Edwards deserves some recognition for writing a rather in-depth review of Box Mapping. While some of the basic principles of his mapping technique remain the same, WotC have implemented a new algorithm for the sorting of rares. As far as I have surmised, all the rares and mythic rares come from two sheets of 11x11 cards. If we use the same sorting algorithm from Innistrad, Avacyn Restored, and Return to Ravinca, the 11 x 11 sheets are cut into 4 tracks. These are represented by Tracks A-D. The tracks are then distributed in booster packs in the following order:
A B D A B D D A A B C A C D C C B D C B D C
or
D B C C D A D C A B C C B B D D A A D B C A
or
C A D B C C A D B C A D B C A D D B C A D B
or
C B A D D C B A D B C A D D C B A D C C B A
(Thanks mtggo)
Each track has a few characteristics that we can use to determine which cards will be in each Track. Track A usually contains two copies of 15 mythic rares with 4 copies of 6 different rares and 1 copy of a rare in Track B (usually a land or artifact). Track B contains 13 rares appearing 4 times with 3 of the remaining copies of the rare found in track A. Track C and D contain 16 rares appearing 4 times, in each, with two copies of one rare in each. As such, Track A and B both have 55 cards total while C and D have 66 cards total. If this explanation is confusing, here is an example from Innistrad:
Track A: 15 Mythics appearing twice + 6 rares appearing 4 times + 1 Kessig Wolf Run = 55 Cards
Track B: 13 Rares appearing 4 times + other 3 Kessig Wolf Run = 55 Cards
Track C: 16 Rares appearing 4 times + 2 Evil Twin = 66 Cards
Track D: 16 Rares appearing 4 times + 2 Evil Twin = 66 Cards
Additionally, each box undergoes double displacement of rows. This usually occurs on the 1st and 7th row (often two rows, say 3 and 10, are removed and placed on top and in the 7th row). This would change the order of cards from 1-12 to 3, 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 10, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12. If you are attempting to map the box, it's relatively safe to assume that rows 4-6 and 11-12 are in the correct location (though not always).
When you list your boxes, indicate the guild pictured on the front of the pack or the last digit on the barcode. (If you don't have the pack's number, that's fine, but it will help speed up the mapping process.)
The numbers that are associated with each image are as follows:
Boros Guildmage: 15049807000001
Vizkopa Guildmage: 15049807000002
Prime Speaker Zegana: 15049807000003
Skarrg Guildmage: 15049807000004
Duskmantle Guildmage: 15049807000005
In an effort to develop some standardization for inputting cards, please follow the format below that includes mythic rares in red and foils in parentheses(As a disclaimer, remember that bold red posts are reserved for moderators). The numbers in parentheses represent the guild or last digit of the bar code discussed above.
These are listed Top to Bottom for each Row.
Remember to provide the Country and Language that the box was printed in (Usually, Belgium or U.S.A.)
Finally, double check your Spelling for card names. The more accurate your spelling, the faster we can produce the map.
Furthermore if you have cases, please list them as described by Mr. Smiley in the RTR thread:
"If you're giving a full case list (yay!), the boxes are most times loaded in the case bottom-side up, for ease of barcode scanning; let us know if your case is not loaded that way. The 6-4-2-5-3-1 Ross refers to is--I think--the order the boxes are loaded in the case; with the front of the boxes facing right, the machines load boxes into cases in this order: bottom right(1), top right(2), bottom middle(3), top middle(4), bottom left(5), top left(6). If you're giving a full case list, please number your boxes so our database crunchers can attempt to use the multi-box data."
I realize that writing down each rare that comes out of a pack in order is a bit of a pain. However, each box we get brings us closer to developing an accurate map.
In closing, have fun in the upcoming pre-release festivities. I'm sure you already have a guild or two picked out, and once you finish extorting your friends into the ground, don't forget to post your unboxings on the thread.
All the Tracks have been solved and can be found below. Thanks mtggo and Vinzito for your help in compiling the Tracks. Track Information:
Clan Defiance
Ooze Flux
High Priest Penance
Treasury Thrull
Undercity Plague
Rubblehulk
Angelic Skirmisher
Clan Defiance
Thespian’s Stage
Immortal Servitude
Realmwright
High Priest of Penance
Gruul Ragebeast
Ooze Flux
Signal the Clans
Five-Alarm Fire
Rubblehulk
Rubblebelt Raiders
Undercity Plague
Immortal Servitude
Ooze Flux
Angelic Skirmisher
Signal the Clans
High Priest of Penance
Rubblebelt Raider
Watery Grave
Alms Beast
Realmwright
Angelic Skirmisher
Immortal Servitude
Treasury Thrull
Signal the Clans
Undercity Plague
Five-Alarm Fire
Gruul Ragebeast
Alms Beast
Angelic Skirmisher
Thespians Stage
Signal the Clans
Rubblebelt Raiders
Spark Trooper (?)
Clan Defiance
(Watery Grave)
Gruul Ragebeast
Realmwright
Treasury Thrull
Rubblehulk
Thespian’s Stage
Alms Beast
High Priest of Penance
Five-Alarm Fire
Watery Grave
Gruul Beast
Realmwright
Treasury Thrull
Rubblehulk
Thespian’s Stage
Alms Beast
High Priest of Penance
Five-Alarm Fire
(Watery Grave
(Spark Trooper
(Undercity Plague)
Clan Defiance
Alms Beast
Ooze Flux
Rubblehulk
Realmwright
Rubblebelt Raiders
Thespian's Stage
Gruul Ragebeast
Treasury Thrull
Watery Grave
Immortal Servitude
Five-Alarm Fire
It would seem that there is an open discussion on the ethics surrounding box mapping. At the moment, it appears that we may not be able to discuss this topic come Dragon's Maze. For the time being, I am waiting for the thread to unlock. Once it does, I will provide a link. Until then, I suggest that we keep this thread centered on solving the map and leave the ethical issues for other threads.
Edits:
1-31-13 Added a data file provided by CanadianGreenBeret. Thanks, again, for contributing this.
2-1-13: Added the second track provided by mtggo, changed the example to a Gatecrash box. Added the Partial Track Information.
2-2-13: Found another Sequence of Tracks. Updated the Track list.
2-3-13: Compiled my list and mtggo's list to form 4 nearly completed Tracks. Track C is currently a train wreck.
2-6-13: Fixed Track C. All Tracks should be accurate now. Thanks, mtggo and Vinzito for contributing your maps as well as everyone that contributed box data.
I didn't know people are actually doing this..
I am a programmer myself and I think it's great that you guys are doing something fun with it. lol
I plan on getting a GTC box this weekend so I can post my results if it helps you guys out.
My box came in today. Two rows were shifted, and there was some pack deletion, leading to a partial prediction being completely wrong, and a for sure prediction being wrong. Still was able to be all mapped out within about 6-7 packs though, and the first pack I cracked was Watery Grave, so not so bad. I went ahead and opened dollar rares I need though, attempting to find the foil rare. I did, after 18 packs, but sadly it was just a Rubblebelt Raiders. Overall though, I'm happy with the app. Might have to buy one more box to make the app worth it ;D
Hi, I just set out to try this app for the first time. The app is unable to calculate anything after I input my sleeve map. Not sure what I can do from here:
Right
Biovisionary (Knight of Obligation)
Nightveil Specter
Gruul Ragebeast
Crypt Ghast
Biomass Mutation
Five-Alarm Fire
Rubblebelt Raiders
Luminate Primordial
Stolen Identity
Master Biomancer
Frontline Medic
Ooze Flux
Middle:
Legion Loyalist
Enter the Infinite
Ooze Flux
Mind Grind
Boros Reckoner
Fathom Mage
Breeding Pool
Godless Shrine
Skarrg Goliath
Undercity Plague
Diluvian Primordial
Gyre Sage
Left:
Borborygmos Enraged
High Priest of Penance
Illusionist's Bracers
Signal the Clans
Aurelia's Fury
Molten Primordial
Foundry Champion
Rubblehulk
Giant Adephage
Immortal Servitude
Glaring Spotlight
Crypt Ghast
Now, I haven't opened all the packs, but I'm confident this is what they contain, based on the accuracy of the app thus far. My question is...based on the position of the single foil that I've opened (an uncommon,) and the rest of the map, is it possible to determine which packs are most likely to also contain foils, and their rarity? I don't expect to be able to determine it down to the card, but as I mentioned before, I've been trying to figure out how to use the information given earlier to apply mapping to foils...and having no luck. If you ARE able to make recommendations, I'd really appreciate it if you can walk me through your reasoning, so I can try to start wrapping my head around it.
Ok, here's the last box I opened. I'm including the sleeve map, but NOT reordering it at all. This is exactly how it was in the box.
I don't have too much time right now to get into all of the foil specifics for this one box, so maybe someone can assist in the meantime.
But I'd just like to point out that this is coming in v1.2 (I've actually been working on the foils most of the day today - in addition to making a quick fix to the card price lookup feature. (v1.1.9 - which was uploaded today fixes the card price lookup crash that occured on some devices)
In this next version, the foil tab is going to make suggestions as to where the commons/uncommon/rares are. But then use cloud processing to suggest where specific foil cards might be located. As we find out more information, it'll immediately be updated in the cloud. This will allow iOS users to get more immediate updates, until we've solidified the foil tracks enough to make them a permanent fixture.
The nice thing about the app handling all of this is that you don't have to worry about counting the pack removals or following the row shifting. It'll all be done automatically.
Ok so i have cracked 2 boxes perfectly.. then i got 2 more.. and WHOa.. this things are beyond scrambled .. neither the app nor me have a clue on how to Unscramble this.. PLEASE HELP.
Ok so i have cracked 2 boxes perfectly.. then i got 2 more.. and WHOa.. this things are beyond scrambled .. neither the app nor me have a clue on how to Unscramble this.. PLEASE HELP.
So, is there any possibility of help with the sleeve map I posted? It's really confusing me and I'm not sure where to even start with this puzzle
Hi, I just set out to try this app for the first time. The app is unable to calculate anything after I input my sleeve map. Not sure what I can do from here:
hehe ok i fugured it out.. it worked ok.. although one of the predictions were off but just 1 of them and for the better.. ( predicted high priest of penance and it was a breeding pool) after that it went smooth...
Still... worst box i have ever opened.. damn....
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
currently playing
Standard RUGRUG Ramp
Modern GRTurbo Moon,RRRSkred Red
Legacy BBBNightmare Effect,GUWEnchantress,UWBCephalid Breakfast
So, is there any possibility of help with the sleeve map I posted? It's really confusing me and I'm not sure where to even start with this puzzle
Hi, I just set out to try this app for the first time. The app is unable to calculate anything after I input my sleeve map. Not sure what I can do from here:
1. There are 4 track orders in the OP. Is this the case for GTC? I remember RTR only having 1 track order (I think it was A B D A B D D A A B C A C D C C B D C B D C).
2. In track D, there are some extra cards in parenthesis. Why are they in parenthesis? It seems there are also 9 more cards in track D than track C. Is that correct?
Thanks!!
Yes, it can be any one of those 4 track sequences, you'll figure it out as you open packs.
Just use my track lists, they are in post 3.
Awesome, thank you!
Personally, I'd just like to be able to tell which packs are likely to contain foils. I haven't had much luck applying the information qwerty laid out.
However in this one video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITYr-lR0P64
the app just cant figure out the mapping (the sleve map was done correctly as I checked twice) but after that when you try as little as 3-5 packs from wherever you want to start, it just says that it cant figure out the map.
Does the app needs more tweaking? Or is there something about the row swap or pack removal in this box that couldn't be predicted.
I plan on buying two cases of DM. One of them I will open at release and don't mind posting all the information to further the boxmapping for that one. How long on average would you guess it takes for the boxmap to be figured out before I open the second case?
I looked at this one. It looks like the whole bottom row of that box (before any shifting happens) was completely wrong. Everything else lines up perfectly. So it looks like a factory glitch with those three packs.
I'm pretty sure we've got everything down 100%, it just comes down to the occasional factory hiccup. Anything with more than two pack removals will be a problem.
Someone reported back after opening 36 GTC boxes just recently, 34 were mappable using v1.1.6. I didn't get the details on those two boxes, but I would guess they are also factory glitches or packs could have moved in the box during shipment.
It looks like they are printing in Belgium again, so if anyone has any Belgium boxes, please post them. They are definitely different, but the packing order seems to be the same as the older Belgium sets.
http://box-mapper.rhcloud.com
This will be an open source project. Thus, i will give access to you guys to contribute in this project. I will fix some bugs and visual makeups then i will share git repository URL.
The project is still in Beta stage so please inform me if there's something wrong with it. Current features:
- Automatic sleeve ordering (seamless)
- Mapping
- Giving you track info and card prices
I am a programmer myself and I think it's great that you guys are doing something fun with it. lol
I plan on getting a GTC box this weekend so I can post my results if it helps you guys out.
3 5 1 2 3 3 | 3 4 5 1 2 4
4 2 3 4 5 5 | 5 1 2 3 4 1
2 2 2 3 1 4 | 5 1 4 5 1 3
Any help would be greatly appreciated!!
Sorry i didn't include the rows,
R-Top 3 5 1 2 3 3 | 3 4 5 1 2 4
M-Top 4 2 3 4 5 5 | 5 1 2 3 4 1
L-Top 2 2 2 3 1 4 | 5 1 4 5 1 3
It's called pack deletion I think the updated app makes up for this little problem. Also, see the Youtube video posted on the first page.
Right: 3 5 3 1 4 2 5 1 4 2 5 3
Middle: 4 1 4 2 5 3 1 2 5 3 1 4
Left: 1 4 2 5 5 2 5 3 1 4 3 2
Right: 4 3 5 1 2 3 1 4 5 2 3 4
Middle: 1 5 2 3 4 5 3 1 2 4 5 1
Left: 3 2 4 5 1 2 5 3 4 1 2 3
Right
Biovisionary (Knight of Obligation)
Nightveil Specter
Gruul Ragebeast
Crypt Ghast
Biomass Mutation
Five-Alarm Fire
Rubblebelt Raiders
Luminate Primordial
Stolen Identity
Master Biomancer
Frontline Medic
Ooze Flux
Middle:
Legion Loyalist
Enter the Infinite
Ooze Flux
Mind Grind
Boros Reckoner
Fathom Mage
Breeding Pool
Godless Shrine
Skarrg Goliath
Undercity Plague
Diluvian Primordial
Gyre Sage
Left:
Borborygmos Enraged
High Priest of Penance
Illusionist's Bracers
Signal the Clans
Aurelia's Fury
Molten Primordial
Foundry Champion
Rubblehulk
Giant Adephage
Immortal Servitude
Glaring Spotlight
Crypt Ghast
Now, I haven't opened all the packs, but I'm confident this is what they contain, based on the accuracy of the app thus far. My question is...based on the position of the single foil that I've opened (an uncommon,) and the rest of the map, is it possible to determine which packs are most likely to also contain foils, and their rarity? I don't expect to be able to determine it down to the card, but as I mentioned before, I've been trying to figure out how to use the information given earlier to apply mapping to foils...and having no luck. If you ARE able to make recommendations, I'd really appreciate it if you can walk me through your reasoning, so I can try to start wrapping my head around it.
Thanks.
I don't have too much time right now to get into all of the foil specifics for this one box, so maybe someone can assist in the meantime.
But I'd just like to point out that this is coming in v1.2 (I've actually been working on the foils most of the day today - in addition to making a quick fix to the card price lookup feature. (v1.1.9 - which was uploaded today fixes the card price lookup crash that occured on some devices)
In this next version, the foil tab is going to make suggestions as to where the commons/uncommon/rares are. But then use cloud processing to suggest where specific foil cards might be located. As we find out more information, it'll immediately be updated in the cloud. This will allow iOS users to get more immediate updates, until we've solidified the foil tracks enough to make them a permanent fixture.
The nice thing about the app handling all of this is that you don't have to worry about counting the pack removals or following the row shifting. It'll all be done automatically.
Here are the sleeve maps.
Being: 1.- Boros 2.-Orzhov 3.-Simic 4.- Gruul 5.-Dimir
Box 1:
314255245425
425322351531
531443413142
Box 2:
314412531542
523142153452
134253214531
From the first one i can figure out maybe some row shifting and some pack removals.. but the second one?..OMFG whats up with that box...
Please help..
currently playing
Standard RUGRUG Ramp
Modern GRTurbo Moon,RRRSkred Red
Legacy BBBNightmare Effect,GUWEnchantress,UWBCephalid Breakfast
Actually, if you just swap the 2 and 5 that I've highlighted in box 2, it should work.
Box 1 looks like it has 4 removals, which isn't too bad, you could probably just space them out.
314255245425
425322351531
531443413142
Actually, just space two of them out and you'll be fine. Like this:
3
4
531425245425
142532351531
253143413142
The two red packs are the empty spaces we've made. But you'll still put them in your sleeve map.
The two green packs are the extras we have left over after shifting everything.
Ok ill try this.. but.. in the box 1 what i do is.. move the 6th row to the first row? so originally like this?
314255245425
425322351531
531443413142
to something like this?
531425245425
242532351531
353144413142
then rmove the two packs you told me? like this?
531425245425
2425_2351531
353_44413142
or how did you come up with the pattern?
531425245425
142532351531
253143413142
where do the 5,1,2 from the first row came from?...
currently playing
Standard RUGRUG Ramp
Modern GRTurbo Moon,RRRSkred Red
Legacy BBBNightmare Effect,GUWEnchantress,UWBCephalid Breakfast
Hi, I just set out to try this app for the first time. The app is unable to calculate anything after I input my sleeve map. Not sure what I can do from here:
Right: 3 5 3 1 4 2 5 1 4 2 5 3
Middle: 4 1 4 2 5 3 1 2 5 3 1 4
Left: 1 4 2 5 5 2 5 3 1 4 3 2
im still unsure about the box no 1...
currently playing
Standard RUGRUG Ramp
Modern GRTurbo Moon,RRRSkred Red
Legacy BBBNightmare Effect,GUWEnchantress,UWBCephalid Breakfast
Still... worst box i have ever opened.. damn....
currently playing
Standard RUGRUG Ramp
Modern GRTurbo Moon,RRRSkred Red
Legacy BBBNightmare Effect,GUWEnchantress,UWBCephalid Breakfast
Try swapping the 2 and 3 that I have highlighted. See if that works.