I really want to like this card but he really doesn't do much. I mean simply put the reason Bob is so good is he gives YOU card advantage. All this guy does is accelerate both sides and if your playing UB I don't really think you want the other side moving faster. Now your obviously going to want to adjust your curve lower for this guy but at for mana, well that's where you're curve should be ending.
Really all you have here is a 4/4 flying mythic for 4.
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Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
A control deck that can use the uneven symmetry to consistently deny their opponents the ability to utilize the card advantage
An aggressive tempo deck that can use the unexpected life loss and the 4/4 flyer to close out the game before the opponent can even use the extra cards.
What remains to be seen is how this deck fairs against aggro. I could easily see a transformational sideboard into heavy sweepers and extort to maximize the uneven symmetry of this card and to survive the early rush.
Also, new pongify. I lose 1 life, you lose whatever big creature cmc, you play big creature, i make it smaller than my 4/4.
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Really all you have here is a 4/4 flying mythic for 4.
That's all I'm seeing as well. This can be strong in certain matchups, but generally speaking the decks with the higher casting cost cards will be the one playing this guy.
I welcome all of my opponents to play this against me in Standard. I love drawing extra cards with no mana invested. And I especially welcome it in limited, where Dimir has the ridiculously overpriced cipher cards.
We just need a new drain life variant (not just extort) and this card will be VERY good.
It is rather different from Bob and Bloodgift Demon in that this is also a very viable kill condition against a lot of decks.
Counter and bounce stuff will eventually kill them.
Of course it's not really what you want vs aggro, but there are other tools for those matchups.
We just need a new drain life variant (not just extort) and this card will be VERY good.
It is rather different from Bob and Bloodgift Demon in that this is also a very viable kill condition against a lot of decks.
Counter and bounce stuff will eventually kill them.
Of course it's not really what you want vs aggro, but there are other tools for those matchups.
Very well designed imo.
A shame Mark of the Vampire is CMC4, it's a bit too high if you're doing a buildaround for Seer. But making Seer a 6/6 Lifelink while your every upkeep chips away at your opponents would be very nice.
Nope. There is no strict drawback to seer, you get a constructed costed body and symmetrical effect, that may or may not be benefical depending on how you build your deck.
If you see that bloodgift demon has the same body and his effect is not symmetrical but a phyrexian arena on legs and doesn't see any play because he has to untap to provide any advantage you can understand why this guy won't see any t2 play..
5cmc flying 5/4 is pathetic board presence compared to what we have in the format. 4cmc flying 4/4 is not.
The comparison to Bloodgift seems pretty obvious, but I think the types of decks that would want each creature are completely different. If any deck exists that plays this, it will be one that WANTS the opponent to hit non-lands. By that I mean a deck that plans on consistently getting their opponent under 8 before turn 5. That way the draw damage + the flying damage actually would act as a threat to end the game in one attack.
Are there enough aggressive UB cards out there to make that happen? I don't know, but I suspect Delver is NOT a good fit with this card. Having a flipped delver is great, but having a deck that plays a million non-creatures isn't a reliable way to get your opponent to a low life total by the time this would hit play. A zoo-esque UB deck (If that is possible) would be where you'd want to go. UBR Vampires/Zombies?
This is not the type of card you want to play in any kind of control deck. Unless you want to kill yourself with it. It is the same reason why Bob isn't a great control card, but works very well in aggro.
This card is damn hard to evaluate.
My gut instinct however says that it is not good enough, but lets evaluate.
Pro's:
1. It has the best raw stats for any 4cmc creature in standard, without having a punisher mechanic or severe drawback.
2. After it resolves, it is a card drawing engine that does not need any more investment.
3. Very hard to remove. This is actually very important, because it negates one of the con's. Orzhov Charm, Dreadbore can remove this in standard.
Con's:
1. It does not generate card advantage, and the first turn is key. Your opponent benefits from the card draw first.
2. The lifeloss can be devastating, because the upcoming format seems very agro heavy, and playing this card in a deck with 5-6 cmc's, seems playing russian roulette.
After listing this, I think it has the potential to see play.
A 4/4 evasive body for 4 is one the best deals you can get.
It dodges MOST constructed playable removal spells, which means it is likely you can untap with it and draw a card of it too.
The good thing about this card however, is that it secretly is a potential giant clock. If you play this in a tempo shell, against a midrange deck or control deck, It can be a potential 2 turn clock on its own.
Imagine playing this, and your opponent reveals a Garruk primal hunter, terminus, angel of serenity.
That is alot of damage that these decks do not want to take, and is definitely something to consider.
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Give credit, where credit is due. Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found. The whip is kept for special occasions
The Internet was a revelation to me, I never imagined there are so many idiots on this planet.
This card is a key piece in a high-tier deck that would exist if Ponder were in rotation.
Unfortunately, we don't have that, so it's in an awkward place. I hope someone makes it work, though, because I really love this card. Symmetrical effects make me happy.
If you play this in a tempo shell, against a midrange deck or control deck, It can be a potential 2 turn clock on its own.
Imagine playing this, and your opponent reveals a Garruk primal hunter, terminus, angel of serenity.
That is alot of damage that these decks do not want to take, and is definitely something to consider.
That is the only thing I think that can make the card work. You need a deck that can make it so that by the time they draw a 4+ drop (If they do) they are going to die, immediately.
Your opponent doesn't actually benefit from the draw before you either. You BOTH draw during your turn, which means that you should get the first use out of it (unless your opponent casts an instant).
You are right in that a 4/4 flyer dodges a fair amount of removal. It also trumps Restoration Angel in combat, which is nice.
I can see this being playable, but only if your deck is built in the best way possible to exploit the ability.
I stand corrected indeed, that makes this card actually much better.
Seems it is an easy misread though, because similar cards are not designed like this.
This is also a good example why the thread should have the actual card wording in it, instead of forcing me to swap between two different threads in two different forum sections.
@OP
Welcome to the forums, but please edit your post so it at least includes the exact wording of the card, plus converted manacost.
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Give credit, where credit is due. Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found. The whip is kept for special occasions
The Internet was a revelation to me, I never imagined there are so many idiots on this planet.
One thing I have not seen anyone mention yet is the AMAZING synergy between this and Azorius Charm. Those doubting the power level of this card will realize it when they lose to it.
If it was only 1 life loss then it's fine casting him on turn 5 onwards, but since it's card cmc then he'll be situational on late turns. This card needs ramp or lifegain.
In Grixis or UB, I can use him as a complement to this Mill strategy I'm thinking right now. But I have this feeling that it is in Esper colors where he'll shine.
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Going back to Europe Tonight. will say goodbye to you all.
If your opponent has a Miracle card on top of his library when the Duskmantle Seer's ability resolves, he gets that card into his hand without drawing (so it can't be cast for Miracle cost), and he also gets hit for full CMC of the card (Thunderous Wrath, Temporal Mastery or Devastation Tide will all really hurt).
I don't see it as a hoser, but I can imagine that's why they worded it in such a way, so that they couldn't set one off. However, I do see him as a way to nerf expensive gruul cards in limited.
As a control player, this guy makes me nervous... we're always digging for those 2-3 expensive cards in the deck, and seeing one on the other side of the board would make me sweat.
If your opponent has a Miracle card on top of his library when the Duskmantle Seer's ability resolves, he gets that card into his hand without drawing (so it can't be cast for Miracle cost), and he also gets hit for full CMC of the card (Thunderous Wrath, Temporal Mastery or Devastation Tide will all really hurt).
On the other hand, he might have a land on top and a miracle 2 cards down thst you triggered for him. Because of the randomness it doesn't have much interaction with Miracles. They will hurt when they are flipped though.
On the other hand, he might have a land on top and a miracle 2 cards down thst you triggered for him. Because of the randomness it doesn't have much interaction with Miracles. They will hurt when they are flipped though.
It doesn't alter probability of opponent flipping a Miracle, but it has a chance of hurting him.
i guess if you somewhat control whats on top of your opponents deck either with dimir charm or azorious charm at the end of thier turn with this guy out then it seems better. with dimir we are going to be milliing and countering so... i forsee countering bombs... returning all attacking creatures to owners hands and milling them to death... not sure how its really going to work but i do want foil copies of this card because the art is what i like the most...... not to mention we could index the top of our deck
I can see a card like this working pretty well for itself. The best part is that it can be shrewdly sided in to punish a number of decks that don't play by the rules. There are also plenty of cards that don't hurt too much on the upswing, yet are devastating when they are actually cast (SR).
I really, really want this to be playable because of how swingy it is, and how much potential it has. Unfortunately, it also has a ton of potential to do a bucket of nothing, or worse. Delver could get away with some misfires because it's a 1-drop, and it never actually backfired. This seems like a greater potential for an even bigger setback, in a slot that has cards like Humtmaster, Aristocrat, and Hellrider in it. As opposed to Reckless Waif and Stromkirk Noble.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
At first I wasn't sure I liked this card but now I think it may be pretty decent. It's hard to say what will happen with this one but in the right deck, like someone mentioned a zombie build perhaps, it could be awesome, low cost stuff to keep the life loss for you down while hopefully hurting your opponent more. Best case is to take a wait and see approach.
This is made to be played in a tempo deck. The real question is if it has the necessary support for the deck to be viable. Even more so BUG zombies loves it. However so do any opposing aggro decks.
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Really all you have here is a 4/4 flying mythic for 4.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
A control deck that can use the uneven symmetry to consistently deny their opponents the ability to utilize the card advantage
An aggressive tempo deck that can use the unexpected life loss and the 4/4 flyer to close out the game before the opponent can even use the extra cards.
What remains to be seen is how this deck fairs against aggro. I could easily see a transformational sideboard into heavy sweepers and extort to maximize the uneven symmetry of this card and to survive the early rush.
That's all I'm seeing as well. This can be strong in certain matchups, but generally speaking the decks with the higher casting cost cards will be the one playing this guy.
I welcome all of my opponents to play this against me in Standard. I love drawing extra cards with no mana invested. And I especially welcome it in limited, where Dimir has the ridiculously overpriced cipher cards.
Leatherback Baloth? More like Hunted Wumpus
It is rather different from Bob and Bloodgift Demon in that this is also a very viable kill condition against a lot of decks.
Counter and bounce stuff will eventually kill them.
Of course it's not really what you want vs aggro, but there are other tools for those matchups.
Very well designed imo.
This great banner was made by Topher
A shame Mark of the Vampire is CMC4, it's a bit too high if you're doing a buildaround for Seer. But making Seer a 6/6 Lifelink while your every upkeep chips away at your opponents would be very nice.
Nope. There is no strict drawback to seer, you get a constructed costed body and symmetrical effect, that may or may not be benefical depending on how you build your deck.
5cmc flying 5/4 is pathetic board presence compared to what we have in the format. 4cmc flying 4/4 is not.
Are there enough aggressive UB cards out there to make that happen? I don't know, but I suspect Delver is NOT a good fit with this card. Having a flipped delver is great, but having a deck that plays a million non-creatures isn't a reliable way to get your opponent to a low life total by the time this would hit play. A zoo-esque UB deck (If that is possible) would be where you'd want to go. UBR Vampires/Zombies?
This is not the type of card you want to play in any kind of control deck. Unless you want to kill yourself with it. It is the same reason why Bob isn't a great control card, but works very well in aggro.
My gut instinct however says that it is not good enough, but lets evaluate.
Pro's:
1. It has the best raw stats for any 4cmc creature in standard, without having a punisher mechanic or severe drawback.
2. After it resolves, it is a card drawing engine that does not need any more investment.
3. Very hard to remove. This is actually very important, because it negates one of the con's. Orzhov Charm, Dreadbore can remove this in standard.
Con's:
1. It does not generate card advantage, and the first turn is key. Your opponent benefits from the card draw first.
2. The lifeloss can be devastating, because the upcoming format seems very agro heavy, and playing this card in a deck with 5-6 cmc's, seems playing russian roulette.
After listing this, I think it has the potential to see play.
A 4/4 evasive body for 4 is one the best deals you can get.
It dodges MOST constructed playable removal spells, which means it is likely you can untap with it and draw a card of it too.
The good thing about this card however, is that it secretly is a potential giant clock. If you play this in a tempo shell, against a midrange deck or control deck, It can be a potential 2 turn clock on its own.
Imagine playing this, and your opponent reveals a Garruk primal hunter, terminus, angel of serenity.
That is alot of damage that these decks do not want to take, and is definitely something to consider.
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
Unfortunately, we don't have that, so it's in an awkward place. I hope someone makes it work, though, because I really love this card. Symmetrical effects make me happy.
You may want to reread the card.
That is the only thing I think that can make the card work. You need a deck that can make it so that by the time they draw a 4+ drop (If they do) they are going to die, immediately.
Your opponent doesn't actually benefit from the draw before you either. You BOTH draw during your turn, which means that you should get the first use out of it (unless your opponent casts an instant).
You are right in that a 4/4 flyer dodges a fair amount of removal. It also trumps Restoration Angel in combat, which is nice.
I can see this being playable, but only if your deck is built in the best way possible to exploit the ability.
I stand corrected indeed, that makes this card actually much better.
Seems it is an easy misread though, because similar cards are not designed like this.
This is also a good example why the thread should have the actual card wording in it, instead of forcing me to swap between two different threads in two different forum sections.
@OP
Welcome to the forums, but please edit your post so it at least includes the exact wording of the card, plus converted manacost.
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
In Grixis or UB, I can use him as a complement to this Mill strategy I'm thinking right now. But I have this feeling that it is in Esper colors where he'll shine.
If your opponent has a Miracle card on top of his library when the Duskmantle Seer's ability resolves, he gets that card into his hand without drawing (so it can't be cast for Miracle cost), and he also gets hit for full CMC of the card (Thunderous Wrath, Temporal Mastery or Devastation Tide will all really hurt).
As a control player, this guy makes me nervous... we're always digging for those 2-3 expensive cards in the deck, and seeing one on the other side of the board would make me sweat.
On the other hand, he might have a land on top and a miracle 2 cards down thst you triggered for him. Because of the randomness it doesn't have much interaction with Miracles. They will hurt when they are flipped though.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
It doesn't alter probability of opponent flipping a Miracle, but it has a chance of hurting him.
This is the most honest, accurate post so far.
I really, really want this to be playable because of how swingy it is, and how much potential it has. Unfortunately, it also has a ton of potential to do a bucket of nothing, or worse. Delver could get away with some misfires because it's a 1-drop, and it never actually backfired. This seems like a greater potential for an even bigger setback, in a slot that has cards like Humtmaster, Aristocrat, and Hellrider in it. As opposed to Reckless Waif and Stromkirk Noble.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon