Duskmantle Seer

  • #1
    How is there not a single post about this card yet?

    REPRINTING a version of Dark confidant that i feel is just absolutley INSANE in this format?

    Thoughts?>
  • #2
    esper delver will be a thing, people just don't know it yet. anyone hating on this card needs to learn to evaluate cards better, this with azorius charm, dimir charm, thought scour and snapcaster = limitless options
  • #3
    Quote from Sasuke252
    How is there not a single post about this card yet?

    REPRINTING a version of Dark confidant that i feel is just absolutley INSANE in this format?

    Thoughts?>


    Dark Confidant only gave YOU cards. This gives the ability parity. To compensate they give you a better body for the mana cost. In the defense of this card, it does do it on your turn, which is good.

    The better question you should ask yourself is... If Bloodgift Demon only gives YOU cards and has a comparable body and rarely sees play, what does this do better than that? And is being one mana cheaper worth the other disadvantages?
  • #4
    Quote from BMillz1341
    Dark Confidant only gave YOU cards. This gives the ability parity. To compensate they give you a better body for the mana cost. In the defense of this card, it does do it on your turn, which is good.

    The better question you should ask yourself is... If Bloodgift Demon only gives YOU cards and has a comparable body and rarely sees play, what does this do better than that? And is being one mana cheaper worth the other disadvantages?


    I think a combination of it being 1 cmc cheaper, being able to potentially draw with no pain (land), get information about your opponent's hand, and also potentially hurt them severely means this card shouldn't be evaluated the same as Bloodgift Demon.

    As for general playability? It's an interesting card to be sure, but I think it's going to struggle to find a home. Had they made it a 4/3 or 3/3 flying for BBU or something it would have had a lot more going for it.
  • #5
    Quote from BMillz1341
    The better question you should ask yourself is... If Bloodgift Demon only gives YOU cards and has a comparable body and rarely sees play, what does this do better than that? And is being one mana cheaper worth the other disadvantages?


    I guess this also dodges Selesnya Charm. That, and if this is your curve-topper and you're against midrange or control, there's a chance they'll kill themselves with the reveal, while you're less likely to.

    Still, between the colors, cost, and drawback-on-a-drawback (as in you both draw, and you both take the damage) I don't see where this guy belongs at the moment. I guess yeah, Esper Delver's a possibility. It would probably top out here and doesn't really have hasty guys to play turn 4, so the extra damage could help push through.
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  • #6
    Quote from BMillz1341
    Dark Confidant only gave YOU cards. This gives the ability parity. To compensate they give you a better body for the mana cost. In the defense of this card, it does do it on your turn, which is good.

    The better question you should ask yourself is... If Bloodgift Demon only gives YOU cards and has a comparable body and rarely sees play, what does this do better than that? And is being one mana cheaper worth the other disadvantages?


    lol... this is NOTHING like bloodgift demon. I'm sorry but, the power level is just incomparable.

    giving everyone a card might sound bad, but what you fail to realize is that it is only bad if everyone can use all the cards drawn, if you are on turn 5 and have 2 5 drops in your hand, where as I have 2 spells costing 2 and 3, all I gave you is 5 dmg to the face.
  • #7
    Hello? This is of Dimir color, you mill your opponent and make them discard, you take control of stuff they play and you have the option to counter. In addition to all that, Dustmantle Seer is a 4/4 flyer, it beats down and survives bolt and most black removal.

    It's not as powerful as Dark Confidant due to cost, but it's by no mean a weak card.
  • #8
    This and consecrated sphinx want to hang out and give each other totally platonic back rubs with some scented candles around.
  • #9
    This card and Delver go together like whoa. People just don't know it yet. And we're waiting for the right library manipulation to bring it all together with snaps. The deck will be nuts. I'm actually considering preording a playset or two of this card.
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  • #10
    This card simply crushes any control deck using high CMC cards (like omnidoor).

    The difference between this and the Bob is that duskmantle seer could let your opponent reveal an emrakul (i'm thinking in a modern prospective, and specifically against RGTron) and immediately end the game. The card will need a perfect deck to be built around and dimir charm may help (like other library manipulator). The thing is that with this card around you have to minimize the high cmc spells in your deck or instead get crushed.
    Nice card!
  • #11
    I want to try this card the the Windfall card, and Delver to see if I can get some kinda of sweet temp deck going.
  • #12
    I honestly think this is going to be great in grixis control with some mill properties. leaving them little to no options after milling and letting them draw dead cards to your tempo would mean a lot. Yes he seems a little less viable as Bob was to modern, but i believe at this current format he is going to be insane...
  • #13
    Good way to die against aggro... Low curve UBX deck is as unlikely as it gets, and any aggro deck can take a lot more advantage of this than you.














    ..................................................
  • #14
    Whoever predicted UnplayaBob was on the right track.

    4 CMC for a creature that dies to removal with no board impact or any effect snuck through, no protection against removal, and backfires against all the commonly played decks and cards in standard and the general deck building principles that have governed this game for years. Its rather funny that one of the examples used in the preview article was thragtusk. NO, them drawing into thragtusk is not a good thing for you, you gave them a free card and just negated one part of thrags 3-for-1. Thats a very bad situation for you

    In order for it to be effective, you'd need to be playing a low curve deck against a high curve, or have library manipulation that hasn't been in standard since the walletsculptor left.
    Bloodgift demon is better, and will see no play either.
    PSA- With BNG having many 'opponents choice' effects and not just in tribute, it helps to know how to evaluate such mechanics:

    Whenever a mechanic gives an opponent his choice of one of multiple options, the ability is overall worth less than the least of these options, made worse by how different the options are and better by your ability to manipulate this choice. In most cases you have no meaningful way to influence your opponents choice.
  • #15
    Interestingly I've not yet read (I admit I didn't plow through the full spoiler thread) that unlike Bob, Seer costs 4. That's relevant for the average cmc of your deck's cards.
    What makes Bob good is CA, atleast I'm told. This card does not offer CA. I'm not sure being able to build your deck around this guys and hoping to have the opponent lose more life is really that potent. Swingy for sure.
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  • #16
    I'd be greatly surprised if this did not turn out to be awesome. Yes, the effect is symmetrical, but breaking symmetry usually leads to really good things. Whether or not such a deck can compete in what is right now a very aggressive Standard, we will see.

    Of course, given how metagames evolve nowadays, it's entirely possible we'll be off aggro when this shows up. That's the best part about the current Standard, interesting cards and decks keep moving in and out of the metagame in terms of viability, there's only a few consistent players.
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  • #17
    This card will be played, extensively. It will keep the ramp decks in check, as well as providing fuel for the tempo deck that is going to be coming soon. I seriously advise preordering a set of these.
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  • #18
    Quote from Catnapper
    lol... this is NOTHING like bloodgift demon. I'm sorry but, the power level is just incomparable.

    giving everyone a card might sound bad, but what you fail to realize is that it is only bad if everyone can use all the cards drawn, if you are on turn 5 and have 2 5 drops in your hand, where as I have 2 spells costing 2 and 3, all I gave you is 5 dmg to the face.


    So you're saying Bob is bad because it gives cards in favor of life? What if you hit a 5 drop and a 2 drop and they hit two lands? Who comes out ahead then? You're argument makes no sense.

    Quote from dandaman541
    This card will be played, extensively. It will keep the ramp decks in check, as well as providing fuel for the tempo deck that is going to be coming soon. I seriously advise preordering a set of these.


    How does it keep ramp decks in check? Last time I checked they play a lot of Fogs, Farseeks, and other assorted cheap cards, along with a fair amount of lands. All your doing is giving them ramp cards or drawing them to their monsters faster, and if you're playing Seer its pretty unlikely that your late game is better than there's. Even if they happen to hit one of their expensive spells, those decks have lots of Thragtusks and Sphinx's Revelations to gain life back and sweepers to ensure that you don't put much pressure on them.
    Last edited by jturphy: 1/17/2013 1:39:32 AM
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  • #19
    This card is a complete puzzle. The decks that want this effect are pretty clearly in the aggressive camp, as the CA is symetric and the drawback is life loss. It's body is fairly costed...it's effect is...okay. It's in a decent color combo.

    The issue here is that in order to use this card well, the top of your curve has to be pretty much this, and you have to have quite a bit of reach to make sure your opponents aren't benefiting too much from the extra cards you are giving them. The problem is against other agro decks this card could backfire horribly, by both hurting you, giving them a card, and opening you up to opposing reach. At the same time, for control decks not using thragtusk, this card is scary to fight.

    at the current spoilage level, I am going to say this is fringe playable at its very best. Too weak and loose vs. agro, and not hard for control to remove. Seems too weak and boring to be a mythic, frankly. The only thing this has going for it is forcing the opponent to be on a dark confidant clock, and that is something that is quite risky.
  • #20
    Quote from jturphy
    So you're saying Bob is bad because it gives cards in favor of life? What if you hit a 5 drop and a 2 drop and they hit two lands? Who comes out ahead then? You're argument makes no sense.


    sorry, please point me to a deck that plays bob, is competitive, and have cards with cmc 5 and greater as their main threats. go on, I'll wait.

    please don't make me spoon feed you everything, this card screams "build around me!" obviously you build a deck with a low curve.
  • #21
    The greatest dark confident deck i've ever seen was a red/black suicide rakdos deck in standard, that ran 3 greater gargadons along side 4 of dark confident. so brave!
  • #22
    Quote from Catnapper
    sorry, please point me to a deck that plays bob, is competitive, and have cards with cmc 5 and greater as their main threats. go on, I'll wait.

    please don't make me spoon feed you everything, this card screams "build around me!" obviously you build a deck with a low curve.


    Ok, how about if they flip two lands and you flip a 4 drop and a 2 drop? Is that better for you?
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  • #23
    Well, so far with the current spoiler level the rest of its color combo stays within the realm of this ramp. Lazav and Whispering Madness match it at CMC 4, which would both be worth play alongside it for one reason or another. (The trio there combo well together. You know when to ping in with an encoded Madness based on what you know of their hand. And Lazav takes the body of whatever biggest threat you just knocked out.) If you cap your deck at CMC 4, these three make a great set to work with.

    Hands of Binding and Dimir Charm are low cost but effective with Seer. Binding encodes and helps you lock out bigger threats on the table, Charm either lets you manipulate the top of their deck (fair use), or if they are running high sorcery low creature you can hold it for its Counterspell. Gridlock and Rapid Hybridization both come in at 1 damage for you but allow you a lot of room to work, and the latter card puts a threatening opposing creature out of reach of taking out Seer.

    I mentioned in the announce thread Seer pairs well with Overload cards, which have a hand in Blue. I dunno if UBR works in practice, but it gives more options of low CMC toys that do big things. Just having access to Cyclonic Rift's level of field dispersal without worrying about a 7 CMC burn on your life is nice.
  • #24
    When Bloodgift Demon is still legal (although i admit at a higher mana cost) and doesn't see play at all how can anyone hopes that this will see play in t2?

    Check all the creatures played right now in t2 that have cmc more than 4:
    Huntmaster
    Thragtusk
    Hellrider
    Aristocrat
    Thundermaw
    Restoration

    They all have in common that they have effect on the board the turn they enter , this one does not.

    The only creature that see t2 play and doesn't have etb effect is olivia. I believe the comparison of this card with bloodgift demon shows why this card is not good enough.
  • #25
    Quote from jturphy
    Ok, how about if they flip two lands and you flip a 4 drop and a 2 drop? Is that better for you?


    if they flipped 2 lands, how are they winning? cause man lands are still in standard? cause lands deal dmg? seriously, why can't you think for yourself for once?

    let me spell it out for you: you play this with delver, you're playing aggro tempo, you don't give a rats ass if they flip a land cause that means 1 less answer they have for you, all the while you're beating their face in. and that 2 drop you flipped? Is it an azorius charm(tempo/cantrip)? dimir charm(time walk/counter/removal)? snap?

    advice: stop evaluating cards in a vacuum. kthx
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