so as a few people have mentioned on another thread;
boros reckoner + lifelink + indestructability = infinite life
however, people are being rather stupid and suggesting all kinds of convoluted ways to get this effect. that soulbond/lifelink dude? not necessary.
also there's an important thing to consider. the combo isn't the main strategy, just a bonus that will happen in maybe a third of the games you play. every third game just being able to say "i win" is crazy powerful. this deck will wreck. adding snapcaster mage allows you to combo off more consistently while still being able to cast the charms when you need them most. as long as they are in your yard or hand, the combo's there.
here's the main pieces:
azorius charm - lifelink/draw/handy removal (first piece of infinite life) boros charm - extra damage/indestructibility (second piece) boros reckoner - difficult to deal with creature (third piece) snapcaster mage - made better by double-strike (seriously), and also re-use your charms to ensure you have the combo up even if the charms are in your yard. allows you to cast the charms early-game and not have to worry about keeping them in your hand forever. also hasty blocker if needed. essential.
potentially chromatic lantern in order to bolster your mid-game snapcaster-frenzy and make sure you absolutely can cast every spell in your hand when you need to. you'll want to cast this on turn 4 so you have mana available for a charm in their turn. max value.
geist of saint traft also difficult to deal with creature silverblade paladin - basically an "over the top" kind of card to break through stalemates in the mid game when boards start to fill up, or you need a really fast clock (and let's face it... you do). also pushes through an incredible 10 damage from geist by soulbonding with the angel token. OUCH.
that's three 3 cost creatures.... ideally this wants to be the top of your curve. the rest should be smaller aggressive dudes to round out the strategy, and some removal to ice the cake. depending on the mana base you could potentially run into cards like loxodon smiter which would be absurd in this list.
at the moment it's looking rather like some of the old aggro-combo-control lists with super-aggressive beats, twinned with mild controlling elements, very VERY fast clocks from double-striking, and an "i win" button which sometimes just wins you the game on the spot. having this bonus of just winning the game is a very powerful thing. the deck is powerful anyway, but this makes it great.
my issue with all that is i would want to splash green for farseek to make the combo go off a turn sooner, OR have the splash be red since you only really need it for the Boros Charm as Reckoner can be paid with white. So if your running a White heavy Bant mana base with every other color as the splash you can get the combo as fast as possible. I understand the uses of Snapcaster but to pull off the combo you would need 6 mana at least with snap flashing back a charm. The combo should be more of a secondary effect of the deck or alt win con with either fast beats or hard core control into some other win con or something you can pull off faster than your opponent can respond and just coast to victory. Elixer of Immortality? Jace, MA?
my issue with all that is i would want to splash green for farseek to make the combo go off a turn sooner, OR have the splash be red since you only really need it for the Boros Charm as Reckoner can be paid with white. So if your running a White heavy Bant mana base with every other color as the splash you can get the combo as fast as possible. I understand the uses of Snapcaster but to pull off the combo you would need 6 mana at least with snap flashing back a charm. The combo should be more of a secondary effect of the deck or alt win con with either fast beats or hard core control into some other win con or something you can pull off faster than your opponent can respond and just coast to victory. Elixer of Immortality? Jace, MA?
im just tossin ideas around at this point
well i did say in the description that the combo was an alt-win that happened to go off sometimes as a bonus... and the main thing was midrange beats.
immortal servitude in the 6-drop spot gets all your three-drops back at once... that's a pretty big game. i wonder if it's something that'll catch on?
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Another way you could go with this is just play this in a boros list with frontline medics and nearheath pilgrims. Both are very reasonable cards that fit in with that strategy, and since you would already be playing boros charm you have a lot of redundancy for the combo.
I don't know if the OP's shell is the best one simply because it "seems" all-in on the combo. I know the OP said it wasn't an all-in combo but there is nothing resembling any sort of aggressive curve. You have 3 different 3-drops and a 2-drop that's not really a 2-drop.
In a straight boros shell you can have all the usual 1's and 3's and simply substitute nearheath pilgrim for one of your 2-drops (ash zealout, lightning mauler, etc.) You're not stretching the deck to fit in the combo and it will happen organically. Just an idea. (you could also play the 1-mana combat trick that gives lifelink if you're really gung-ho about getting the combo off)
I feel kinda stupid for asking, but how does this actually work? What do you gain infinite life from?
Whenever it is dealt damage, you get to deal damage to something. Choose to deal that damage to itself, and repeat repeat. Meanwhile, you gain more and more life.
Whenever it is dealt damage, you get to deal damage to something. Choose to deal that damage to itself, and repeat repeat. Meanwhile, you gain more and more life.
Ohhhh, okay. I guess that's kinda cool. I'd just hate that they'd HAVE to block it for that to work and I can't help but imagine that they'd probably never block that guy. Or is there something else I'm missing?
Okay, now that I get it, I'm sorta liking this now. We could always run burn spells like Searing Spear and Pillar Of Flame. It's good ole removal and if the combo seems like a sure shot and they're tapped out, you could always pillar your own Reckoner to get the damage going.
I like Swift Justice in here too. It's cheaper than Azorius Charm and I sorta wanted to try just plain ole Boros style and it lets you get away with not splashing blue.
I always kinda hated Blasphemous Act, but I could see like 2 being cool in here. It'd be hot if you could pull off some BS like casting it and still having mana left over to make your guys indestructible with Boros Charm and of course the obvious stuff with Reckoner.
I think the combo is more reliable with frontline medic, but i'm less sure of what cards to use to enable his battalion. Ash zealot could be that card, also lingering souls is good if we splash black. One reason I like the medic is that he can give indestruct for free. When we try to combo off, the more mana the better.
The first post doesn't explain that it is a 4 piece combo clearly enough, it shapes the deck a lot. We need to run cards that can profitability set off the combo, like chandra the firebrand and aurelia's fury. Fury can set the combo off in the best way. Cast fury for two targetting them and 1 point at the reckoner. After the fury resolves you zap the reckoner with his ability then cast boros charm and azorious charm in response, then gain infinite life, free from disruption.
I like your list Zemanjaski, but while i think you do want some cards to make you roll out consistently, 4 faithless and 4 signal the clans are a bit much. Maybe drop some and put in rolling temblor.
I like that you can burn your own doll with defiance to double burn your opponent, nice.
For my deck want i also would like to run a few stuffy dolls and maybe try pit fight because the reckoner is a great fighter.
Heh, i was watching batman yesterday, it probably inspired the deck
So maybe i will.
Edit: come to think of it, i think the deck needs black to truely be Gotham's reckoning.
I like your list Zemanjaski, but while i think you do want some cards to make you roll out consistently, 4 faithless and 4 signal the clans are a bit much. Maybe drop some and put in rolling temblor.
I like that you can burn your own doll with defiance to double burn your opponent, nice.
For my deck want i also would like to run a few stuffy dolls and maybe try pit fight because the reckoner is a great fighter.
Thanks. I like Faithless Looting to try and find Blasphemous Act; Signal the Clans because having multiple enablers in play will let you BA for much more (and make it cheaper) which seems important against decks with lifegain. I am actually excited to test this.
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your creatures are mostly 3 drops. this means, actually, you have a pretty fair advantage over decks that run smaller creatures. on turn 3 your creature drop will trounce their turn 1 or 2 drop. after that, a lantern will boost you up to 6 mana pretty fast and enable your colours more.
the infinite life combo here isn't the main win con, it's just a tasty bonus. and it would win you games. there's no greediness here. just good old magic.
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Took 13 points right to the face at FNM with this combo against my White/black tokens deck. What hurts the most is the fact that the guy that did it, did it with a reckoner that I traded him.
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boros reckoner + lifelink + indestructability = infinite life
however, people are being rather stupid and suggesting all kinds of convoluted ways to get this effect. that soulbond/lifelink dude? not necessary.
also there's an important thing to consider. the combo isn't the main strategy, just a bonus that will happen in maybe a third of the games you play. every third game just being able to say "i win" is crazy powerful. this deck will wreck. adding snapcaster mage allows you to combo off more consistently while still being able to cast the charms when you need them most. as long as they are in your yard or hand, the combo's there.
here's the main pieces:
azorius charm - lifelink/draw/handy removal (first piece of infinite life)
boros charm - extra damage/indestructibility (second piece)
boros reckoner - difficult to deal with creature (third piece)
snapcaster mage - made better by double-strike (seriously), and also re-use your charms to ensure you have the combo up even if the charms are in your yard. allows you to cast the charms early-game and not have to worry about keeping them in your hand forever. also hasty blocker if needed. essential.
potentially chromatic lantern in order to bolster your mid-game snapcaster-frenzy and make sure you absolutely can cast every spell in your hand when you need to. you'll want to cast this on turn 4 so you have mana available for a charm in their turn. max value.
geist of saint traft also difficult to deal with creature
silverblade paladin - basically an "over the top" kind of card to break through stalemates in the mid game when boards start to fill up, or you need a really fast clock (and let's face it... you do). also pushes through an incredible 10 damage from geist by soulbonding with the angel token. OUCH.
that's three 3 cost creatures.... ideally this wants to be the top of your curve. the rest should be smaller aggressive dudes to round out the strategy, and some removal to ice the cake. depending on the mana base you could potentially run into cards like loxodon smiter which would be absurd in this list.
at the moment it's looking rather like some of the old aggro-combo-control lists with super-aggressive beats, twinned with mild controlling elements, very VERY fast clocks from double-striking, and an "i win" button which sometimes just wins you the game on the spot. having this bonus of just winning the game is a very powerful thing. the deck is powerful anyway, but this makes it great.
im just tossin ideas around at this point
well i did say in the description that the combo was an alt-win that happened to go off sometimes as a bonus... and the main thing was midrange beats.
immortal servitude in the 6-drop spot gets all your three-drops back at once... that's a pretty big game. i wonder if it's something that'll catch on?
I don't know if the OP's shell is the best one simply because it "seems" all-in on the combo. I know the OP said it wasn't an all-in combo but there is nothing resembling any sort of aggressive curve. You have 3 different 3-drops and a 2-drop that's not really a 2-drop.
In a straight boros shell you can have all the usual 1's and 3's and simply substitute nearheath pilgrim for one of your 2-drops (ash zealout, lightning mauler, etc.) You're not stretching the deck to fit in the combo and it will happen organically. Just an idea. (you could also play the 1-mana combat trick that gives lifelink if you're really gung-ho about getting the combo off)
But yeah, it can be a huge deal. It's good to have a combo in standard again, maybe people actually play counters again.
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Whenever it is dealt damage, you get to deal damage to something. Choose to deal that damage to itself, and repeat repeat. Meanwhile, you gain more and more life.
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Ohhhh, okay. I guess that's kinda cool. I'd just hate that they'd HAVE to block it for that to work and I can't help but imagine that they'd probably never block that guy. Or is there something else I'm missing?
Someone please do it.
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I like Swift Justice in here too. It's cheaper than Azorius Charm and I sorta wanted to try just plain ole Boros style and it lets you get away with not splashing blue.
I always kinda hated Blasphemous Act, but I could see like 2 being cool in here. It'd be hot if you could pull off some BS like casting it and still having mana left over to make your guys indestructible with Boros Charm and of course the obvious stuff with Reckoner.
Aside from that, maybe sort of base it around a R/x aggro kinda deck. Stromkirk Nobles, Ash Zealots, Rakdos Cacklers, Skyknight Legionnaires, Rakdos Shred-Freaks, stuff like that.
Thanks Argentleman;)
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The first post doesn't explain that it is a 4 piece combo clearly enough, it shapes the deck a lot. We need to run cards that can profitability set off the combo, like chandra the firebrand and aurelia's fury. Fury can set the combo off in the best way. Cast fury for two targetting them and 1 point at the reckoner. After the fury resolves you zap the reckoner with his ability then cast boros charm and azorious charm in response, then gain infinite life, free from disruption.
4 Nearheath Pilgrim
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Frontline Medic
4 Boros Charm
4 Swift Justice
4 Exquisite Blood
4 Vizkopa Guildmage
4 Immortal Servitude
4 Searing Spear
2 Vault of the Archangel
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Blood Crypt
2 Godless Shrine
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Stuffy Doll
4 Blasphemous Act
4 Clan Defiance
4 Faithless Looting
4 Farseek
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Gruul Guildgate
2 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Stomping Ground
10 Mountain
How does that look?
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This is my take on American Reckoning:
3 ash zealot
2 nearheath pilgrim
3 frontline medic
4 boros reckoner
3 snapcaster mage
4 boros charm
3 blasphemous act
1 supreme verdict
3 searing spear
2 aurelia's fury
I like that you can burn your own doll with defiance to double burn your opponent, nice.
For my deck want i also would like to run a few stuffy dolls and maybe try pit fight because the reckoner is a great fighter.
You should have named it Gotham's Reckoning
Heh, i was watching batman yesterday, it probably inspired the deck
So maybe i will.
Edit: come to think of it, i think the deck needs black to truely be Gotham's reckoning.
Thanks. I like Faithless Looting to try and find Blasphemous Act; Signal the Clans because having multiple enablers in play will let you BA for much more (and make it cheaper) which seems important against decks with lifegain. I am actually excited to test this.
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i'm sure it's better to go with an aggro shell than a combo shell. that way you've got a more solid main-plan and a rather tasty bonus.
also... versatility = good. azorius charm is way better than swift justice. topdeck a charm and you're happy. topdeck that? eugh. game loss.
oh and don't play blasphemous act, lol. it's too fragile and do-nothing when you don't have your pieces.
here's a rough list:
3x frontline medic
3x silverblade paladin
4x geist of saint traft
4x snapcaster mage
4x azorius charm
4x boros charm
4x pillar of flame
2x aurelia's fury
4x chromatic lantern
lands
24x various shocks + duals + basics
your creatures are mostly 3 drops. this means, actually, you have a pretty fair advantage over decks that run smaller creatures. on turn 3 your creature drop will trounce their turn 1 or 2 drop. after that, a lantern will boost you up to 6 mana pretty fast and enable your colours more.
the infinite life combo here isn't the main win con, it's just a tasty bonus. and it would win you games. there's no greediness here. just good old magic.
Took 13 points right to the face at FNM with this combo against my White/black tokens deck. What hurts the most is the fact that the guy that did it, did it with a reckoner that I traded him.