If these card where reprinted in standard sets that would be even more people to play with, and the increased demand would counteract the increased supply.
The only reason to do it this way is it will get Wotc more money.
Or, you know, because they don't want cards that will be busted in/too powerful for Standard in Standard again.
I'm becomming more concerened with magic as a whole you can just call magic a Card Game now, recent years losing collectability. Pure and simple money grab by Hasbro/WOTC. Flooding the market with too much product will start to make sales of other products suffer as people only have so much disposable income. Every year now we already have 4 sets, plus usually duel decks, now commander decks will come again, this, FTV, etc. etc. etc. eventually it becomes to overwhelming to keep up with and people givre up look at what happened to baseball cards when they started doing this kind of thing. After a while it takes the fun out of collecting because it is impossible to keep up with, plus people don't want 3 versions, plus the secret limited run version of the same card, oh and the ultra rare that comes 1 in 10 packs, oops I mean mythic (And yes I know it's one in 8). I do like reprints each year within the context of each block and the base sets and I hope it doesn't go the way of Pokeman and baseball cards.
would it be disappointing if some of the value to modern staples tank as a result? sure. no doubt. is it worth the trade off having more people interested in, and viably playing modern, meaning more games at my lgs... oh sweet christ yes. i'll take being able to play against people more readily any day over sitting on thousands in cards that rot in a binder because no one is interested in that format or i've got no one to use them against.
I'm becomming more concerened with magic as a whole you can just call magic a Card Game now, recent years losing collectability. Pure and simple money grab by Hasbro/WOTC. Flooding the market with too much product will start to make sales of other products suffer as people only have so much disposable income. Every year now we already have 4 sets, plus usually duel decks, now commander decks will come again, this, FTV, etc. etc. etc. eventually it becomes to overwhelming to keep up with and people givre up look at what happened to baseball cards when they started doing this kind of thing. After a while it takes the fun out of collecting because it is impossible to keep up with, plus people don't want 3 versions, plus the secret limited run version of the same card, oh and the ultra rare that comes 1 in 10 packs, oops I mean mythic (And yes I know it's one in 8). I do like reprints each year within the context of each block and the base sets and I hope it doesn't go the way of Pokeman and baseball cards.
or they narrow their spectrum more. focus more on limited. or standard. or modern. or edh. they're still buying product, a lot of product, but not ALL of the products. nothing says you have to buy every single magic released product.
sports cards are a terrible comparison because... sports cards are meant to be collected. you don't play games with them its a completely different product.
Which cards from any previously FTV or similar product, including reprint in normal set, have permanently lost value?
They may dip a bit when the set is out, then they will be back up approximately where they were. They're staples because poeple want them. Once the new supply is gone, the effect on price is minimal.
I've never understood why people collect mtg for value. I mean that was responsible for the biggest blunder in magic (reserved list)
I'm not threatened at all by this, it gets staples in the hands of more players so more players will be playing modern. Thats a VERY good thing. Now if only we could get that for legacy and vintage
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks
Standard BEtched Champion/InfectB WSoilders/knightsW WUVenser SplicerWU RRDWR GFeed the Pack comboG WUPool of ExhaustionWU
EDH GEzuri, Elf OverrunG BGeth, GraverobberB UThada Adel, ThiefU RUrabrask, Big RedR WElesh Norn, CrusadeW WUGAngus Makenzie, Bant ControlWUG
or they narrow their spectrum more. focus more on limited. or standard. or modern. or edh. they're still buying product, a lot of product, but not ALL of the products. nothing says you have to buy every single magic released product.
sports cards are a terrible comparison because... sports cards are meant to be collected. you don't play games with them its a completely different product.
+1 to this. I'd hazard a guess that most people who feel seriously "threatened" by this don't actually play the format.
Will I lose some money between this and shock reprints? Probably. It's better than not being able to find a LGS that can actually get enough people together to host a modern event. It's not like the stores around me haven't tried - even with great prize support, they couldn't even get a minimum of 8 people to show up. It'd be awesome to actually play this format outside of PTQ's, instead of watching it die.
As an aside, I can't wait to try out this limited format. Sort of sounds like a diet cube, or something.
The community has complained that expensive staples need to be reprinted. Wizards is doing it in a way that helps everyone (not affecting standard, keeping it somewhat limited to make sure it doesn't completely torpedo prices), and people complain.
But no, I'm in no way irritated by this. My collection is worth nothing, because I'm not selling it. My Goyfs are only worth $100+ if I sell them. Why should I care if newer players/players that simply don't have sought after staples now have more access to them? It doesn't affect me in the slightest.
Which cards from any previously FTV or similar product, including reprint in normal set, have permanently lost value?
They may dip a bit when the set is out, then they will be back up approximately where they were. They're staples because poeple want them. Once the new supply is gone, the effect on price is minimal.
Wrong?
this is true, there is a reason I bought 4 Maze Of Iths when FTV: Realms was released, I knew they would soon go right back up to $40 from $20-$25
Overall I am happy with this if anything it can cause the originals to go up in price rather than down (Judge Foil V Cliques look even better now)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern:
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget I stream!
To the above poster, I really doubt Finks would be reprinted at uncommon.
Oh really? I'd be immensely surprised to see finks at rare and if finks is a mythic, I will tear up every copy that I own. Remember how this set has commons and uncommons as well as rares and mythic rares? SOMETHING has to fill up those uncommon and common slots in the set.
Yeah tear up those cryptic commands. I'd love to see a magic player who loves kokusho to tear up cryptic commands as you're actually just wasting 40-60 dollars you could have spent on kokusho. On top of that anyone who sees you tearing up cryptic commands will ask you why and you'll have to answer. You'll also never live it down in a active magic community as the story about the person who tore up some cryptic commands would spread like wildfire.
I'm relieved this product is coming out. I don't have infinite amounts of money and spending 40 apiece on thoughtseize is ridiculous when the card shouldn't be worth more than 10 as it is literally a duress that can grab creatures while losing you 2 life. Shouldn't have been a rare in the first place.
Maze of ith FTV version is still worth 25 Fizzeler. You can still get the dark version for under 30 if you look around. Eventually the price will rebound, but not 2 months after the product is released unless lands becomes tier 1 in legacy overnight (hint: it won't be tier 1 ever unless WotC prints something ridiculously good for the deck.)
Oh really? I'd be immensely surprised to see finks at rare and if finks is a mythic, I will tear up every copy that I own. Remember how this set has commons and uncommons as well as rares and mythic rares? SOMETHING has to fill up those uncommon and common slots in the set.
Yeah tear up those cryptic commands. I'd love to see a magic player who loves kokusho to tear up cryptic commands as you're actually just wasting 40-60 dollars you could have spent on kokusho. On top of that anyone who sees you tearing up cryptic commands will ask you why and you'll have to answer. You'll also never live it down in a active magic community as the story about the person who tore up some cryptic commands would spread like wildfire.
I'm relieved this product is coming out. I don't have infinite amounts of money and spending 40 apiece on thoughtseize is ridiculous when the card shouldn't be worth more than 10 as it is literally a duress that can grab creatures while losing you 2 life. Shouldn't have been a rare in the first place.
Maze of ith FTV version is still worth 25 Fizzeler. You can still get the dark version for under 30 if you look around. Eventually the price will rebound, but not 2 months after the product is released unless lands becomes tier 1 in legacy overnight (hint: it won't be tier 1 ever unless WotC prints something ridiculously good for the deck.)
I agree with you, but it does worry me they did play with some of the rarities (Goyf doesnt bother me). I can see path at rare, terminate at uncommon, vial at rare.. I doubt they will bump commands up to mythics, but maybe. I dont see them bumping Bob or Clique up to mythic, but they might.
I had a super long post all typed up to explain my unhappiness about this "expansion". I decided the tl;dr version was better:
I have a playset of all the modern staples, because I've played standard faithfully for many years. I invested a lot of time and money to get them. I'm worried that the value of the bulk of my collection is about to drop significantly because of all the potential reprints.
Is it insane to e-bay all my modern staples before they get spoiled and re-buy them after their price drops?
In the interview, Aaron stressed multiple times that this would be "limited" and that they were concerned about the effect on the secondary market. The booster packs will cost twice as much as normal.
At a minimum you should wait until Monday to see what Aaron's article says.
I'm a long time player with thousands of rares, including playsets of a large number of modern staples. This set sounds actual awesome to me. I love the modern format, and I wish I could play it at the local shop, but only a very small handful of people I know have the cards to even make 1 modern deck. I only hope they'll print enough of it that it doesn't sell out right away around here so that I can draft the hell out of it.
If you're concerned that your investment is going to tank, your concerns are well founded, but long term, I would expect the value to rebound unless they make a second reprinting of any card. They announced when they created this format that they were going to reprint modern staples. If you didn't take them at their word and unload, or even worse you went out and invested in cards for modern to gain value from, then you have noone to blame but yourself. One of the main reasons modern started where it did was because there was no reserve list, which meant that they could reprint things as needed, and so they have, WOOT!
I'm really excited about this...first, getting a chance to get some tried and true good cards again, but also to get some cards that are otherwise unappealing (Futureshifted border, Planeshifted border, white bordered...) What can I say? I'm a stickler for uniformity.
You're only going to take a "loss" if you decide to sell your collection next Agusut. Are you currently planning on doing that? No? Then nothing changes for you. Owning pieces of cardboard doesn't equal having money. Also, consider the following:
Maze of Ith price before FTV Realms: $40
Maze of Ith price after FTV Realms: $25
Maze of Ith price further after FTV Realms: $35
See how much that ultimately affected the price? You can expect 'Goyf to go form $80 to maybe $65 or $70, with original printings being worth more. You have to keep in consideration that increasing the supply will drop the cost, which will increase the demand, and the price will rise back to some equillibrium. It's not like the cards are just going to sit around being unused, there are going to be a bunch of players buying packs and singles so they can get into modern.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Death Vish | High on Crackblade | Ooze the Boss | Long Live the King | Fomori Face Fister
Brunal Legend | Hazezon First | Cirrhosis of the Sliver | Animar Planet | The Joy of Pain-ting
The most expensive cards in Modern aren't going to drop very much if at all. We see Mythic Rares in new sets that don't have the scarcity problems of an out of print set still reach $30+. Card prices are less driven by scarcity and more driven by hype and perceived power. A Tarmogoyf as a Mythic Rare in a set where boosters are double in price will still be at least $60.
I figured I would toss in my 2 cents, as someone who runs/owns the magic singles collection for a local brick and mortar gaming store. This sort of reprinting is going to be most concerning for shops with large collections, and people who are investing in the game. I was allready in the process of completely organizing, and pairing down my collection at the shop, this should give me a little more wiggle room to do that without having to worry about not being able to restock the cards later. Im low on a lot of things like tarmogoyf especially as well, so this will also make that easier on me to be able to restock those without having to pay the outlandish prices I would have to pay online, since people generally dont look to trade such cards into shops unless they can get near-ebay values for them. Will I lose some money? Sure. Will I presumably also be able to make some money on ripping a bunch of cases of this product (unless they do a terrible job on it, which I doubt, I imagine I will be able to make some money. I deal with value declines all the time, when things rotate, or get banned, or anything else. I keep full stocks of everything on hand to make sure I always have what people need. If that means I gain and lose value over time, then so be it. I know so many shops that just open and dump their singles when a new set comes out, and never really bother keeping any particularly good stock on hand because the singles arent a huge concern for them. That sort of attitude however is harmful to the magic playerbase, as without easy availability of cards, at reasonable prices, it makes it more difficult for people to be able to get into and play various types of tournament magic. Those shops wont care about this product, in fact they will like it because they will make money on pack sales and will lose next to nothing from their nonexistant singles stock.
Those like myself, and other good stores that have extensive collections are the ones that have the most potential to lose value, but as I said, thats simply the nature of the game. Cards go up, cards go down, cards eventually go back up again. Shops who do this, know they will run into this, and do their best to account for this in their offerings for cards. the 2/3rds trade I offer and 1/2 cash isnt some sort of money grab on my part, its there to protect myself from price fluxuations, and make sure I can keep up with my cash flow.
At the end of the day, this product will be good for magic as a whole. It will be good for wizards, it will be good for shops, and it will be good for the modern magic playerbase, as it helps to make some of the cards more accessable, and helps to bring in a slew of new players to the format to give it that extra boost it needs to get going even stronger. Short term loss, long-term gain at least for myself, which Im more than happy to deal with.
For those concerned with losing value, you all have quite a bit of time to offload cards you are concerned will drop in value. This set doesnt release for another 8 months, so you have plenty of time. If you were going to be playing anyway.... Then why the concern? You have the cards, so you are allready all set and ready to go, seems like a good place to be, since its not like the cards are going to tank in value with a limited release and at double the msrp of a normal pack.
Actually I think what will make this set annoying financially is that people won't buy or trade for them "just in case" the prices drop for the next year. Same thing happened to shocklands... Will be bad for shops in the next few months, unless they run Modern events. But even then some people might just not even show up so they don't have to buy new cards until this set hits.
I'm interested to see if "Not Standard Legal" will do somthing unexpected to the prices... like keep them high.
I do agree with the sentiment that those who will complain the loudest are probably those who do not usually play Modern. Although to be fair, yes i will agree that it's an attempt to make more money. Putting shocklands in RtR was an attempt to make more money. Putting good cards in a set in general can be considered an attempt to make more money. That's what businesses do. It's just this particular grab is very good at generating interest in a specific format, which is a very, very good thing.
I'm going on record right now and stating that before the end of 2012 we will see foil dual lands in booster packs (The real, Alpha dual lands). You can quote me on that.
i have almost every staple of modern, and i'm very happy.
I have (or until recently had) a large number of them, and I'm the same way.
I specifically traded my Goyfs and half my Confidants away, because Wizards was on the record as saying they wanted Modern to be accessible. The signs were all there for you to see. Frankly, you have no one to blame but yourself if you were treating your purchase of goyfs/bobs as some sort of magical investment that couldn't tank, especially given the strong signals that they would be reprinted.
Sadly, I think the price will probably not tank that much, meaning dumb "MTG investors" won't get burned as badly as they should, and prices won't be low enough for the format to truly be accessible.
I have a playset of all the modern staples, because I've played standard faithfully for many years. I invested a lot of time and money to get them.
If you got Goyf when he was in Standard, you didn't pay $100 for him. You got him for anywhere from $2 (the absolute low) to $50 (the absolute peak). If you got Confidant when he was in Standard, you didn't pay $45 for him. You got him for $5-10.
So what is this but shameless greed? The sad part is, it's not even actually costing you any money, because it's not like you were planning on selling these cards to fund your retirement or something. You have the same exact pieces of cardboard that you planned on keeping, they just have smaller numbers attached to them on a website somewhere. It's pure e-peen or in this case binder-peen.
Such a knee jerk reaction to decide to dump your product. This will be a small print run (so not much more supply), attempting to increase the modern playerbase (increased demand). I really doubt your cards are going to depreciate enough to justify selling and repurchasing your entire modern card base.
This. Even if, at first, prices drop a lot, considering they succeed to increase modern player base, cards will return to more or less their initial value. Just watch cards like RtR lands, the behavior is more or less the same every time they reprint something really hot.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Alea iacta est
I'm a Spike Vorthos - I love lore and flavor, but only if the cards are competition worthy.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Or, you know, because they don't want cards that will be busted in/too powerful for Standard in Standard again.
EDH Decks:
RBG Kresh, the Bloodbraided RBG
GW Rhys, the Redeemed GW
Legacy:
RGW Enchantress RGW
or they narrow their spectrum more. focus more on limited. or standard. or modern. or edh. they're still buying product, a lot of product, but not ALL of the products. nothing says you have to buy every single magic released product.
sports cards are a terrible comparison because... sports cards are meant to be collected. you don't play games with them its a completely different product.
They may dip a bit when the set is out, then they will be back up approximately where they were. They're staples because poeple want them. Once the new supply is gone, the effect on price is minimal.
Wrong?
I'm not threatened at all by this, it gets staples in the hands of more players so more players will be playing modern. Thats a VERY good thing. Now if only we could get that for legacy and vintage
BEtched Champion/InfectB
WSoilders/knightsW
WUVenser SplicerWU
RRDWR
GFeed the Pack comboG
WUPool of ExhaustionWU
EDH
GEzuri, Elf OverrunG
BGeth, GraverobberB
UThada Adel, ThiefU
RUrabrask, Big RedR
WElesh Norn, CrusadeW
WUGAngus Makenzie, Bant ControlWUG
Extended
WGElvesWG
Legacy
RGoblinsR
UBGFariesUBG
UBGRaffinityUBG
+1 to this. I'd hazard a guess that most people who feel seriously "threatened" by this don't actually play the format.
Will I lose some money between this and shock reprints? Probably. It's better than not being able to find a LGS that can actually get enough people together to host a modern event. It's not like the stores around me haven't tried - even with great prize support, they couldn't even get a minimum of 8 people to show up. It'd be awesome to actually play this format outside of PTQ's, instead of watching it die.
As an aside, I can't wait to try out this limited format. Sort of sounds like a diet cube, or something.
But no, I'm in no way irritated by this. My collection is worth nothing, because I'm not selling it. My Goyfs are only worth $100+ if I sell them. Why should I care if newer players/players that simply don't have sought after staples now have more access to them? It doesn't affect me in the slightest.
this is true, there is a reason I bought 4 Maze Of Iths when FTV: Realms was released, I knew they would soon go right back up to $40 from $20-$25
Overall I am happy with this if anything it can cause the originals to go up in price rather than down (Judge Foil V Cliques look even better now)
Paper: WUR Waffle Control, RG and U Tron
MTGO: U Tron, BRG Living End, B Infect
Testing Modern on MTGO and helping to craft decks on a Budget
I stream!
Hermit Druid Combo:
Oh really? I'd be immensely surprised to see finks at rare and if finks is a mythic, I will tear up every copy that I own. Remember how this set has commons and uncommons as well as rares and mythic rares? SOMETHING has to fill up those uncommon and common slots in the set.
Yeah tear up those cryptic commands. I'd love to see a magic player who loves kokusho to tear up cryptic commands as you're actually just wasting 40-60 dollars you could have spent on kokusho. On top of that anyone who sees you tearing up cryptic commands will ask you why and you'll have to answer. You'll also never live it down in a active magic community as the story about the person who tore up some cryptic commands would spread like wildfire.
I'm relieved this product is coming out. I don't have infinite amounts of money and spending 40 apiece on thoughtseize is ridiculous when the card shouldn't be worth more than 10 as it is literally a duress that can grab creatures while losing you 2 life. Shouldn't have been a rare in the first place.
Maze of ith FTV version is still worth 25 Fizzeler. You can still get the dark version for under 30 if you look around. Eventually the price will rebound, but not 2 months after the product is released unless lands becomes tier 1 in legacy overnight (hint: it won't be tier 1 ever unless WotC prints something ridiculously good for the deck.)
Currently Playing:
Retired
I agree with you, but it does worry me they did play with some of the rarities (Goyf doesnt bother me). I can see path at rare, terminate at uncommon, vial at rare.. I doubt they will bump commands up to mythics, but maybe. I dont see them bumping Bob or Clique up to mythic, but they might.
I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY ARE TRYING TO ALLOW NEW BLOOD IN THIS GAME?!!! IF YOU MISSED THE FIRST PRINT YOU DESERVE NOTHING! NOTHING AT ALL!
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY EVERYCARD ISN'T ON THE RESERVE LIST AFTER FIRST PRINTING!?!?!?
HOW WILL I HOLD ANY INVESTMENT IN THIS CARD GAME IF ALL MY CARDS AREN'T RESERVED LISTED!?!?
So Pro I have an alpha Volcanic Island
In the interview, Aaron stressed multiple times that this would be "limited" and that they were concerned about the effect on the secondary market. The booster packs will cost twice as much as normal.
At a minimum you should wait until Monday to see what Aaron's article says.
If you're concerned that your investment is going to tank, your concerns are well founded, but long term, I would expect the value to rebound unless they make a second reprinting of any card. They announced when they created this format that they were going to reprint modern staples. If you didn't take them at their word and unload, or even worse you went out and invested in cards for modern to gain value from, then you have noone to blame but yourself. One of the main reasons modern started where it did was because there was no reserve list, which meant that they could reprint things as needed, and so they have, WOOT!
The creator of Maro's Magic 8-Ball!
Maze of Ith price before FTV Realms: $40
Maze of Ith price after FTV Realms: $25
Maze of Ith price further after FTV Realms: $35
See how much that ultimately affected the price? You can expect 'Goyf to go form $80 to maybe $65 or $70, with original printings being worth more. You have to keep in consideration that increasing the supply will drop the cost, which will increase the demand, and the price will rise back to some equillibrium. It's not like the cards are just going to sit around being unused, there are going to be a bunch of players buying packs and singles so they can get into modern.
Those like myself, and other good stores that have extensive collections are the ones that have the most potential to lose value, but as I said, thats simply the nature of the game. Cards go up, cards go down, cards eventually go back up again. Shops who do this, know they will run into this, and do their best to account for this in their offerings for cards. the 2/3rds trade I offer and 1/2 cash isnt some sort of money grab on my part, its there to protect myself from price fluxuations, and make sure I can keep up with my cash flow.
At the end of the day, this product will be good for magic as a whole. It will be good for wizards, it will be good for shops, and it will be good for the modern magic playerbase, as it helps to make some of the cards more accessable, and helps to bring in a slew of new players to the format to give it that extra boost it needs to get going even stronger. Short term loss, long-term gain at least for myself, which Im more than happy to deal with.
For those concerned with losing value, you all have quite a bit of time to offload cards you are concerned will drop in value. This set doesnt release for another 8 months, so you have plenty of time. If you were going to be playing anyway.... Then why the concern? You have the cards, so you are allready all set and ready to go, seems like a good place to be, since its not like the cards are going to tank in value with a limited release and at double the msrp of a normal pack.
Wizards is making the game more accessible so that you have more people to play with. I don't see how this is a bad thing.
What use are a bunch of old cards if no one else is able to afford them and you have nobody to play with?
I'm interested to see if "Not Standard Legal" will do somthing unexpected to the prices... like keep them high.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
mistake to invest in any cards not on the reserved list and not expect to take a loss.
I have (or until recently had) a large number of them, and I'm the same way.
I specifically traded my Goyfs and half my Confidants away, because Wizards was on the record as saying they wanted Modern to be accessible. The signs were all there for you to see. Frankly, you have no one to blame but yourself if you were treating your purchase of goyfs/bobs as some sort of magical investment that couldn't tank, especially given the strong signals that they would be reprinted.
Sadly, I think the price will probably not tank that much, meaning dumb "MTG investors" won't get burned as badly as they should, and prices won't be low enough for the format to truly be accessible.
If you got Goyf when he was in Standard, you didn't pay $100 for him. You got him for anywhere from $2 (the absolute low) to $50 (the absolute peak). If you got Confidant when he was in Standard, you didn't pay $45 for him. You got him for $5-10.
So what is this but shameless greed? The sad part is, it's not even actually costing you any money, because it's not like you were planning on selling these cards to fund your retirement or something. You have the same exact pieces of cardboard that you planned on keeping, they just have smaller numbers attached to them on a website somewhere. It's pure e-peen or in this case binder-peen.
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades
This. Even if, at first, prices drop a lot, considering they succeed to increase modern player base, cards will return to more or less their initial value. Just watch cards like RtR lands, the behavior is more or less the same every time they reprint something really hot.
I'm a Spike Vorthos - I love lore and flavor, but only if the cards are competition worthy.