Good for you. They still have control of the game and a 3/3 creature in play. You're still losing.
It doesn't inherently mean you're losing. I'd say that it really depends on what kind of deck you're playing. If most of your creatures can scoff at a vanilla 3/3 token than I'd say you're in better shape and you only spent a single mana to turn a threat into something more manageable. The decks that can effectively run it are somewhat limited, but I wouldn't dismiss the card outright. I mean, compare it to Beast Within, which did see play. Granted, Beast Within hit permanents and was typically blowing up walkers...I guess the point I want to make is that you don't have to outwardly insult people for saying the think the card has potential in certain decks.
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I sincerely believe everyone on here is capable of being polite and respectful to one another. There is no reason to be insulting someone because they don't share your opinion or haven't been playing the game as long as you have. CURRENTLY PLAYING: Standard: Esper Control :symw::symb::symu: EDH: Teysa Tokens :symw::symb: BUILDING: Modern: Gifts Ungiven :symw::symb::symu:
Good for you. They still have control of the game and a 3/3 creature in play. You're still losing.
A 3/3 vanilla is MUCH simpler to deal with than a 5/5 that is immune to sorcery speed removal (which is just about everything right now). Additionally, remember, this is not legacy. Control doesn't truly control the board in the way High Tide, enchantress, or countertop does. Once you get rid of their primary win con, you set them back a lot.
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This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Good for you. They still have control of the game and a 3/3 creature in play. You're still losing.
Your win con became 3/3 vanilla punk. I hardly see how long that control will last.:cool2:
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Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Many of you are missing the play here with Pongify on Obzedat.
1. He returns to the battle field from the last turn.
2. Opponent declares him as an attacker.
-You play Blue-something and may lack a good kill spell
-You are at 5 or less life
-Pongify in hand and use it as a 1 Blue mana cost spell to save your life
3. Obzedat now says "ribbet" with summoning sickness as long as you kill it during that turn he has haste.
Beast Within saw multiple plays that way in RG Kessig Tittan builds.
Obzedat is does give your opponent 2 otpions. He has haste to swing when no blockers are there or has the advantage. Or you opponent does nothing and drains your life. How many creatures in standard earn you 2 life and reduce your opponents life while allowing you to be nuetral?
No one is saying that a 3/3 isn't easier to deal with than many possible targets for Pongify- Its that Pongify puts you down a card and you still have to deal with a 3/3. Willingly getting 2 for 1-ed is not the way to win games.
The main thing that made Beast Within playable is that it provided you with lots of options- mainly the option to Stone Rain the opponent and put them out of the game if given the right opportunity- as well as hitting walkers.
Honestly, the main thing Pongify has going for it is Snapcaster mage. If blue based aggro (with evasion) becomes viable again (like delver) this isn't the worst. You won't care if you give your control/midrange opponent a 3/3 as long as most of your creatures can fly/are unblockable, etc. Aggressive decks can even put the second option on the table more frequently. Is your opponent going to cast searing spear on your delver of secrets? Well, beat him to it and give yourself an instant centaur courser for U.
Edit - I totally just realized this is the thread for Obdezat. Holy crap did that thread get off topic.
I know the pongify thing is a bit off topic, but it is relevant to discussing Obzedad and other beefy threats that need to be answered at instant speed.
I'll agree Pong is a probably a bad choice for main deck. You'd rather use a counterspell in most contexts. That being said, cheap removal, even with drawbacks, can have a place in standard. Let's wait and see if they reprint some excellent instant speed removal soon.
Back to the ghost at hand, I think it's powerful. It's strange how the automated exile is mostly better, but I can't help but wish it were activated. I think this design is sort of the "niv" of the set, as it simply toys with the design for the progenitor.
I think that's a fair assessment. Though Obzedat is probably better than the new Niv, which isn't saying much...
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Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
No, it's always bad. You'll see that when you play it.
This made me laugh. When you slam down your hellrider, Thundermaw, Grislebrand or any other finisher send me a pic of your face when they pognify it and kill you next turn.
I think the point of this thread is Obzedat, so i think people should focus on Obzedat playablity, and only Rapid Hybridization vs. Obzedat.
Talking about this, while Rapid hybridization is a good option against Obzedat, whitehavesomeways to deal with spot removal, not to mention Dispel on Esper. So i think this "fight" will be fair.
No, it's always bad. You'll see that when you play it.
Seriously, you aren't comparing the threat of a Obzedat, Griselbrand or Thundermaw, to a vanilla 3/3 token, are you? Not to mention the small utililty of using it on your creatures when needed.
Rapid Hybridization does not only kills Obzedat, guys. It also kill everything else. So if Obzedat dies to this card does not mean that Obzedat is bad (or whatever you say it)..
It is still a good card (somewhat resilient and has ETB ability).. A little bit restrictive on mana cost, but I guess with more shockland printed in GTC, it won't be a matter if Obzedat is used in a deck with the right manabase
Rapid Hybridization does not only kills Obzedat, guys. It also kill everything else. So if Obzedat dies to this card does not mean that Obzedat is bad (or whatever you say it)..
It is still a good card (somewhat resilient and has ETB ability).. A little bit restrictive on mana cost, but I guess with more shockland printed in GTC, it won't be a matter if Obzedat is used in a deck with the right manabase
This: let's talk heart of the matter here. Obzedad is good because he has a pretty sweet enters the battlefield ability. No need to connect, he just deals comes into play. Is it the best ever: no. If you untap with him your opponent will be in a world of hurt. Yes, he is hard to cast and he isn't the best ever, but this card does not stink. Maybe it won't work in the environment to come, but we should wait and see.
This whole "dies to instant speed removal" argument is getting pretty old.
This: let's talk heart of the matter here. Obzedad is good because he has a pretty sweet enters the battlefield ability. No need to connect, he just deals comes into play. Is it the best ever: no. If you untap with him your opponent will be in a world of hurt. Yes, he is hard to cast and he isn't the best ever, but this card does not stink. Maybe it won't work in the environment to come, but we should wait and see.
This whole "dies to instant speed removal" argument is getting pretty old.
Firstly, I'm pretty sure the majority believe Obzedat is going to make an impact on standard. Whether he is being over-hyped is one thing, but I'm not sure why you're defending him here, there's no need.
Also, I'm not sure if you just didn't read the thread, but no one is saying he's bad because he "dies to instant removal". It's actually the opposite, as one of if not the only reliable way to deal with him was via Selesnya Charm before the reprint of Pongify was announced.
There will likely be more instant removal that can deal with him released in GTC, as WotC is well aware of his super resiliency. He was originally supposed to be a 4/4 but they bumped him up to a 5/5 just so he can be dealt with by Selesnya Charm. Expect more answers and still expect him to see play.
I'm not really sure why anyone would play Obzedat. He's much worse than the old Ghost Council which was far more evasive and doubled as a sac outlet. Being resistant to sorcery speed removal is cute, but that still leaves common 5 power creatures, instant speed removal, and quite frankly better cards at that CMC to deal with him.
I should also note that if you need him to block, you lose his pinging and his resistance to removal. If he isn't swinging, he's just a lump with a tacked on Highway Robber.
This: let's talk heart of the matter here. Obzedad is good because he has a pretty sweet enters the battlefield ability. No need to connect, he just deals comes into play. Is it the best ever: no. If you untap with him your opponent will be in a world of hurt.
Don't you mean IF he makes it until end of turn. Because your opponent's turn is irrelevant when Obed is not there to remove with the sorcery speed removal like Verdict, Terminus, etc.
Don't you mean IF he makes it until end of turn. Because your opponent's turn is irrelevant when Obed is not there to remove with the sorcery speed removal like Verdict, Terminus, etc.
Unless they have a Victim of Night (which sees little play) or a Selesnya charm in hand, I don't see why he won't survive. Unless you are assuming your opponent always has answers at all times.
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This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Unless they have a Victim of Night (which sees little play) or a Selesnya charm in hand, I don't see why he won't survive. Unless you are assuming your opponent always has answers at all times.
Unless they have a Victim of Night (which sees little play) or a Selesnya charm in hand, I don't see why he won't survive. Unless you are assuming your opponent always has answers at all times.
I thought I had caps lock on....I meant to caps the entire part from IF up to when I said it is exiled. My bad.
Unless they have a Victim of Night (which sees little play) or a Selesnya charm in hand, I don't see why he won't survive. Unless you are assuming your opponent always has answers at all times.
Or Tragic Slip. "Looks to his 4 copies" Why? Why does no one but me know your awesomeness?
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There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
Or Tragic Slip. "Looks to his 4 copies" Why? Why does no one but me know your awesomeness?
Because it is completely reliant on a bunch of x/1 to be in the format which at this time are very few. The morbid is usually a 1 for 2 which is not efficient.
Because it is completely reliant on a bunch of x/1 to be in the format which at this time are very few. The morbid is usually a 1 for 2 which is not efficient.
Efficient? There is one constant in magic: things die. I personally chump with Slitherhead then nuke a fatty at instant speed for one mana. For something Id have to do ANYWAY to live!
So lets add that up...I block, which I have to anyway, then nuke any threat on the board under a 14/14 for one swamp on my opponents turn. I'm sorry, but I fail to see how Im missing out.
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There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
But they lost their 5/5 that was giving them life every turn.
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Good for you. They still have control of the game and a 3/3 creature in play. You're still losing.
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It doesn't inherently mean you're losing. I'd say that it really depends on what kind of deck you're playing. If most of your creatures can scoff at a vanilla 3/3 token than I'd say you're in better shape and you only spent a single mana to turn a threat into something more manageable. The decks that can effectively run it are somewhat limited, but I wouldn't dismiss the card outright. I mean, compare it to Beast Within, which did see play. Granted, Beast Within hit permanents and was typically blowing up walkers...I guess the point I want to make is that you don't have to outwardly insult people for saying the think the card has potential in certain decks.
CURRENTLY PLAYING:
Standard: Esper Control :symw::symb::symu:
EDH: Teysa Tokens :symw::symb:
BUILDING:
Modern: Gifts Ungiven :symw::symb::symu:
A 3/3 vanilla is MUCH simpler to deal with than a 5/5 that is immune to sorcery speed removal (which is just about everything right now). Additionally, remember, this is not legacy. Control doesn't truly control the board in the way High Tide, enchantress, or countertop does. Once you get rid of their primary win con, you set them back a lot.
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
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Your win con became 3/3 vanilla punk. I hardly see how long that control will last.:cool2:
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
1. He returns to the battle field from the last turn.
2. Opponent declares him as an attacker.
-You play Blue-something and may lack a good kill spell
-You are at 5 or less life
-Pongify in hand and use it as a 1 Blue mana cost spell to save your life
3. Obzedat now says "ribbet" with summoning sickness as long as you kill it during that turn he has haste.
Beast Within saw multiple plays that way in RG Kessig Tittan builds.
Obzedat is does give your opponent 2 otpions. He has haste to swing when no blockers are there or has the advantage. Or you opponent does nothing and drains your life. How many creatures in standard earn you 2 life and reduce your opponents life while allowing you to be nuetral?
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The main thing that made Beast Within playable is that it provided you with lots of options- mainly the option to Stone Rain the opponent and put them out of the game if given the right opportunity- as well as hitting walkers.
Edit - I totally just realized this is the thread for Obdezat. Holy crap did that thread get off topic.
I'll agree Pong is a probably a bad choice for main deck. You'd rather use a counterspell in most contexts. That being said, cheap removal, even with drawbacks, can have a place in standard. Let's wait and see if they reprint some excellent instant speed removal soon.
Back to the ghost at hand, I think it's powerful. It's strange how the automated exile is mostly better, but I can't help but wish it were activated. I think this design is sort of the "niv" of the set, as it simply toys with the design for the progenitor.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
This made me laugh. When you slam down your hellrider, Thundermaw, Grislebrand or any other finisher send me a pic of your face when they pognify it and kill you next turn.
Talking about this, while Rapid hybridization is a good option against Obzedat, white have some ways to deal with spot removal, not to mention Dispel on Esper. So i think this "fight" will be fair.
Seriously, you aren't comparing the threat of a Obzedat, Griselbrand or Thundermaw, to a vanilla 3/3 token, are you? Not to mention the small utililty of using it on your creatures when needed.
It is still a good card (somewhat resilient and has ETB ability).. A little bit restrictive on mana cost, but I guess with more shockland printed in GTC, it won't be a matter if Obzedat is used in a deck with the right manabase
This: let's talk heart of the matter here. Obzedad is good because he has a pretty sweet enters the battlefield ability. No need to connect, he just deals comes into play. Is it the best ever: no. If you untap with him your opponent will be in a world of hurt. Yes, he is hard to cast and he isn't the best ever, but this card does not stink. Maybe it won't work in the environment to come, but we should wait and see.
This whole "dies to instant speed removal" argument is getting pretty old.
Firstly, I'm pretty sure the majority believe Obzedat is going to make an impact on standard. Whether he is being over-hyped is one thing, but I'm not sure why you're defending him here, there's no need.
Also, I'm not sure if you just didn't read the thread, but no one is saying he's bad because he "dies to instant removal". It's actually the opposite, as one of if not the only reliable way to deal with him was via Selesnya Charm before the reprint of Pongify was announced.
There will likely be more instant removal that can deal with him released in GTC, as WotC is well aware of his super resiliency. He was originally supposed to be a 4/4 but they bumped him up to a 5/5 just so he can be dealt with by Selesnya Charm. Expect more answers and still expect him to see play.
I should also note that if you need him to block, you lose his pinging and his resistance to removal. If he isn't swinging, he's just a lump with a tacked on Highway Robber.
He isn't worse than the first. While the first was more evasive, was less agressive. His drain compared with this is far weaker.
Don't you mean IF he makes it until end of turn. Because your opponent's turn is irrelevant when Obed is not there to remove with the sorcery speed removal like Verdict, Terminus, etc.
New to Commander? Read the Above article.
Unless they have a Victim of Night (which sees little play) or a Selesnya charm in hand, I don't see why he won't survive. Unless you are assuming your opponent always has answers at all times.
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Lol wrong thread.
I thought I had caps lock on....I meant to caps the entire part from IF up to when I said it is exiled. My bad.
New to Commander? Read the Above article.
Or Tragic Slip. "Looks to his 4 copies" Why? Why does no one but me know your awesomeness?
There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
Because it is completely reliant on a bunch of x/1 to be in the format which at this time are very few. The morbid is usually a 1 for 2 which is not efficient.
Efficient? There is one constant in magic: things die. I personally chump with Slitherhead then nuke a fatty at instant speed for one mana. For something Id have to do ANYWAY to live!
So lets add that up...I block, which I have to anyway, then nuke any threat on the board under a 14/14 for one swamp on my opponents turn. I'm sorry, but I fail to see how Im missing out.
There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.