GoST success is more based on the format he's used in than itself being a good card. Plus he's 3 cc. I honestly don't think GOST is that good so if this is comparable there is little wonder why I dislike the hype. I could be wrong on GoST too but I'm not forking out $100 a play set for something that gets completely owned by any red board sweeper in Modern. I'm sure he'll maintain the slots he's found but even at 3cc he's usually not a 4 of in a deck.
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Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Good point, however you need to hold GosT's hand if you want him to be effective. This card is a bit better by his lonesome.
i literally laughed out loud at that
delver held is hand pretty well. thank god that standard is over. looking forward to these beefy creatures for standard. more fun to play with and more flavor then titans too
GOST is playable in like Legacy. This card has a prohibitive casting cost, and gives you no value if it dies. If its playable in modern its because of alot of value somehow out of the entering/exiting the battlefield ability i think. Its just worse then batterskull at the same cost(plus harder to play) and wurmcoil for slightly more.
GOST is playable in like Legacy. This card has a prohibitive casting cost, and gives you no value if it dies. If its playable in modern its because of alot of value somehow out of the entering/exiting the battlefield ability i think. Its just worse then batterskull at the same cost(plus harder to play) and wurmcoil for slightly more.
Now, creatures don't must just have ETB triggers to be good, they must also have LTB triggers...
Battler Skull? A simple Ancient Grudge and it's gone. And if your Wurmcoil geth pathed, you also get 0 value from it.
From the ones you mentioned, none actually have imediate impact, and can be easly be responded to before having any effect.
Because timewalking yourself without any impact on the game is a very smart strategy.
The fact is that both you mentioned have no effect until you untap. While they're VERY powerful, it's a fact that it's not that hard to your opponent to respond them, and in the end you just spend 5/6 manas for nothing, not even a 4 life swing...
Can we just stop discussing this card for Modern? I don't think anyone really thinks it will have any kind of impact there, only thing that brought it up is that it was mentioned as a singletons in Pod decks(which can go infinite so shouldn't want this). However, this IS a powerful card that could have serious a serious Standard impact.
The simplest answer I can give you is that you have a lot to learn before you can evaluate a card.
This is what i was thinking about you ^-^
No one is talking about having 8 mana, 3 open mana is enough to do the job,
Yeah, because your opponent will be very kind to let you untap to do it ^^
If you cant understand how lifelink is important and that the 2 drain is almost a negligible advantage in an actual game, and that this is also easier to deal in modern than both your examples than you should not be talking about what's playable or not.
While life link IS stronger, it depend on the creature dealing damage, which can be avioded very easly compared to a ETB trigger.
Comparing to the batterskull, when it attacks and connect it will cause a 8 life swing(+4 life, +4 damage). (only 4 if blocked)
The Council will cause a 13 life swing(+4 life, +9 damage), 8 life swing if blocked or without even attacking(+4 life, +4 damage, so he don't need to attack to have the more effect than the batterskull at first), 4 even if it removed just after it ETB(+2 life, +2 damage), wich is better than the nothing you would got if your battlerskull is hit by removals without mana open for the bounce. And will avoid sorcery speed removal.
Compared to the Wurmcoil, the council ETB earlier, so when the wurmcoil etb, The council already got a 13 life swing(+4 life, +9 damage), at the time that the wurmcoil attacks, it will be at 12 life swing(+6 life, +6 damage) and the council 22(+6 life, +16 damage).
The only real issue is the restictive WWBB cost. That is what might keep it from seeing play. Because it will be harder to find a home for it, since there's not many heavy efficient BW builds in modern.
In terms of raw power only he can see play easly. But since that isn't the only thing to evaluate, then i can't assume he will see play.
Don't compare this to Wurmcoil Engine in modern. Wurmcoil comes down turn 3 in a tron deck, which is where it sees most of its play.
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Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Lol... Next month remember this, I'll be laughing, but good thing you think that, if you thought I was a good player I would have to revalue my skills:D
Laughing about what? If he see no play? That's a possibility, but i prefer to not blindly discard a pontential before it effectively failed.
Saying "NO!" to every single new card don't make you a good player.
if you thought I was a good player I would have to revalue my skills:D
Again this is something that serves you right ^^
It's better to try 100 times and fail, than be narrow minded, never experiment different things and in the end only use the successful idea other people had. I bet you're the type that netdeck a lot =]
Don't compare this to Wurmcoil Engine in modern. Wurmcoil comes down turn 3 in a tron deck, which is where it sees most of its play.
That's the WHOLE point of the discussion. On the right build the playability a card can change. They were evaluting the card on a vaccum, so i did. While today there's no archetype that support this as there one that support wurmcoil. MAYBE, i repeat, MAYBE, it can change with the new cards spoiled. If this happen then the potential this card have can be used, if not, everything will be the same, and i won't be disapointed. I'm not betting all my coins on this card, i'm just not ignoring it before trying.
I just think it's foolish to blindly refuse inovation and experimentation. The card have a decent power level, now it need a home to take advantage of this power.
The thing is, and here in lay the reason for the skepticism, is people are already preordering this at around $15 a pop. $60 plus a playset. Now if your a standard player and only really worry about standard fine. But if you want to play something beyond that at a reasonably high level this card isn't going to give you what you want. Lets look at some of the cards that are reasonably similar, for example: Grave Titan, Primeval Titan, Wurmcoil, and BSA. No this is just a test sample, mind you. I would say these four cards, none of which are standard legal anymore, are hands down better than obzedat. GT is 10 points of damage its firsdt swing with friends and then adds more buddies. Prime Time boosts your mana pool while hitting for 6. Wurmcoil has a 12 point life swing on turn four in tron if left unchecked. BSA has a 10 point swing plus evades and can decimate oncoming attacks. This is what they do and they do it for less than what obzedat will cost. Note I'm taking into account obzedat's mana intensive cost plus he is legendary. Now there isn't one of these cards that is currently commanding more than $10.
I'm not saying he doesn't have a place or that he won't have a home in mtg. I'm just asking that folks mind the hype.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
The thing is, and here in lay the reason for the skepticism, is people are already preordering this at around $15 a pop. $60 plus a playset. Now if your a standard player and only really worry about standard fine. But if you want to play something beyond that at a reasonably high level this card isn't going to give you what you want. Lets look at some of the cards that are reasonably similar, for example: Grave Titan, Primeval Titan, Wurmcoil, and BSA. No this is just a test sample, mind you. I would say these four cards, none of which are standard legal anymore, are hands down better than obzedat. GT is 10 points of damage its firsdt swing with friends and then adds more buddies. Prime Time boosts your mana pool while hitting for 6. Wurmcoil has a 12 point life swing on turn four in tron if left unchecked. BSA has a 10 point swing plus evades and can decimate oncoming attacks. This is what they do and they do it for less than what obzedat will cost. Note I'm taking into account obzedat's mana intensive cost plus he is legendary. Now there isn't one of these cards that is currently commanding more than $10.
I'm not saying he doesn't have a place or that he won't have a home in mtg. I'm just asking that folks mind the hype.
Now THAT is a reasonable point. While i think he would fit a different role than the cards you mentioned if played. While all are beaters, they all do it in a different way. The ghost dad would be another approach in the right build.
But now you have made your point in a way i can't argue with, this is really a opinion with lot of senses.
About princing even if he is played, he won't keep above 10$ unless he break standard, which isn't likely to happen.
The reason this won't be a monster value rare is because, while powerful, he is only useable in a few decks AND those decks that use him probably want no more than 2 of him. Use Angel of Serenity as a measuring stick for this. I expect it to be $3 north or south of that card in value.
The reason this won't be a monster value rare is because, while powerful, he is only useable in a few decks AND those decks that use him probably want no more than 2 of him. Use Angel of Serenity as a measuring stick for this. I expect it to be $3 north or south of that card in value.
I hope he isnt very expensive. I figure 10-15 bucks tops. If the Simic leader is awesome he may be less.
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There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
I will definitely play him as a 2 of in my 4C control deck. He is great in such a shell. Stabilizes and presents a resilient threat. At the very least you've made a 4 point life swing (every turn no less!).
He probably isn't going to be a '5' drop since you'll want to play Garruk, Thragtusk, and maybe even Tamiyo before him, but he is great as a T5 (with farseeks), or T6 play. Instantly makes the deck better.
That is too low. I suspect it'll stabilize closer to $10.
I think he'll see AoS prices (roughly ~12$). Obviously higher at the beginning of GTC due to lower supply and higher demand, but it'll settle around 12$ ish me thinks.
I will definitely play him as a 2 of in my 4C control deck. He is great in such a shell. Stabilizes and presents a resilient threat. At the very least you've made a 4 point life swing (every turn no less!).
He probably isn't going to be a '5' drop since you'll want to play Garruk, Thragtusk, and maybe even Tamiyo before him, but he is great as a T5 (with farseeks), or T6 play. Instantly makes the deck better.
I sure hope that deck is playing several chromatic lanterns. Needing to hit 2GGG and 1WWBB and 3UU seems pretty greedy.
I think he'll see AoS prices (roughly ~12$). Obviously higher at the beginning of GTC due to lower supply and higher demand, but it'll settle around 12$ ish me thinks.
The reason I'd put it below Serenity is that the Angel is generally played as a 3x or 4x in it's deck. I don't think this guy is ever more than a 2x unless you are straight WB.
The reason I'd put it below Serenity is that the Angel is generally played as a 3x or 4x in it's deck. I don't think this guy is ever more than a 2x unless you are straight WB.
Sure, you're right, that's why I think he's gonna be cheaper.
Right now, I can buy Jaces for 10, Serenities for 7 and Revelations for 8 (in EUR), so I expect buying this guy for 5-6 eur, yeah, 8 bucks or so.
I sure hope that deck is playing several chromatic lanterns. Needing to hit 2GGG and 1WWBB and 3UU seems pretty greedy.
Nah. With all the shocks + all the duals + farseek, and 26 lands it should be relatively consistent, especially with draw that control uses. The hardest cost will be the BB, but the new shocks solve that dilemma. I have no problem as it is right now casting WW, UU, and GGG by T5.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
i literally laughed out loud at that
delver held is hand pretty well. thank god that standard is over. looking forward to these beefy creatures for standard. more fun to play with and more flavor then titans too
Now, creatures don't must just have ETB triggers to be good, they must also have LTB triggers...
Battler Skull? A simple Ancient Grudge and it's gone. And if your Wurmcoil geth pathed, you also get 0 value from it.
From the ones you mentioned, none actually have imediate impact, and can be easly be responded to before having any effect.
Preach!
There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
Because timewalking yourself without any impact on the game is a very smart strategy.
The fact is that both you mentioned have no effect until you untap. While they're VERY powerful, it's a fact that it's not that hard to your opponent to respond them, and in the end you just spend 5/6 manas for nothing, not even a 4 life swing...
Yeah, because your opponent will be very kind to let you untap to do it ^^
While life link IS stronger, it depend on the creature dealing damage, which can be avioded very easly compared to a ETB trigger.
Comparing to the batterskull, when it attacks and connect it will cause a 8 life swing(+4 life, +4 damage). (only 4 if blocked)
The Council will cause a 13 life swing(+4 life, +9 damage), 8 life swing if blocked or without even attacking(+4 life, +4 damage, so he don't need to attack to have the more effect than the batterskull at first), 4 even if it removed just after it ETB(+2 life, +2 damage), wich is better than the nothing you would got if your battlerskull is hit by removals without mana open for the bounce. And will avoid sorcery speed removal.
Compared to the Wurmcoil, the council ETB earlier, so when the wurmcoil etb, The council already got a 13 life swing(+4 life, +9 damage), at the time that the wurmcoil attacks, it will be at 12 life swing(+6 life, +6 damage) and the council 22(+6 life, +16 damage).
The only real issue is the restictive WWBB cost. That is what might keep it from seeing play. Because it will be harder to find a home for it, since there's not many heavy efficient BW builds in modern.
In terms of raw power only he can see play easly. But since that isn't the only thing to evaluate, then i can't assume he will see play.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Saying "NO!" to every single new card don't make you a good player.
Again this is something that serves you right ^^
It's better to try 100 times and fail, than be narrow minded, never experiment different things and in the end only use the successful idea other people had. I bet you're the type that netdeck a lot =]
That's the WHOLE point of the discussion. On the right build the playability a card can change. They were evaluting the card on a vaccum, so i did. While today there's no archetype that support this as there one that support wurmcoil. MAYBE, i repeat, MAYBE, it can change with the new cards spoiled. If this happen then the potential this card have can be used, if not, everything will be the same, and i won't be disapointed. I'm not betting all my coins on this card, i'm just not ignoring it before trying.
I just think it's foolish to blindly refuse inovation and experimentation. The card have a decent power level, now it need a home to take advantage of this power.
I'm not saying he doesn't have a place or that he won't have a home in mtg. I'm just asking that folks mind the hype.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Now THAT is a reasonable point. While i think he would fit a different role than the cards you mentioned if played. While all are beaters, they all do it in a different way. The ghost dad would be another approach in the right build.
But now you have made your point in a way i can't argue with, this is really a opinion with lot of senses.
About princing even if he is played, he won't keep above 10$ unless he break standard, which isn't likely to happen.
I hope he isnt very expensive. I figure 10-15 bucks tops. If the Simic leader is awesome he may be less.
There is buried treasure everywhere...in a graveyard.
He probably isn't going to be a '5' drop since you'll want to play Garruk, Thragtusk, and maybe even Tamiyo before him, but he is great as a T5 (with farseeks), or T6 play. Instantly makes the deck better.
I still think it has the potential to rock standard and will be extremely happy to pick up several copies if it does level out at around AoS price.
That is too low. I suspect it'll stabilize closer to $10.
I think he'll see AoS prices (roughly ~12$). Obviously higher at the beginning of GTC due to lower supply and higher demand, but it'll settle around 12$ ish me thinks.
I sure hope that deck is playing several chromatic lanterns. Needing to hit 2GGG and 1WWBB and 3UU seems pretty greedy.
The reason I'd put it below Serenity is that the Angel is generally played as a 3x or 4x in it's deck. I don't think this guy is ever more than a 2x unless you are straight WB.
Sure, you're right, that's why I think he's gonna be cheaper.
Right now, I can buy Jaces for 10, Serenities for 7 and Revelations for 8 (in EUR), so I expect buying this guy for 5-6 eur, yeah, 8 bucks or so.
Nah. With all the shocks + all the duals + farseek, and 26 lands it should be relatively consistent, especially with draw that control uses. The hardest cost will be the BB, but the new shocks solve that dilemma. I have no problem as it is right now casting WW, UU, and GGG by T5.
For reference here is my decklist: http://deckstats.net/decks/302/860-4-color-control-wug-b-?saved=1&lng=en