obzedat, ghost council

  • #127
    How much play it will see outside of standard is moot, its price will almost solely be dictated by how much play it sees in standard, in which case, I think it will be a decent amount.

    People need to seriously learn how to evaluate cards better. Comparing him to Niv-Miz and Trostani and using them as some kind of benchmark for how much play Obzedat will see is just silly. This card is actually worth stretching out your mana base for.
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    Disclaimer: Unless I state otherwise, I'm referring to standard.
  • #128
    Quote from Lectrys
    I doubt the Obzedat will be a good Modern finisher. If it's pounding away at the opponent's life, it can't block. It has no evasion (besides the 2 life drain) and cannot block flying stuff, unlike the fringe-played Baneslayer Angel. It also gains life slower than BSA does. Sure, it dodges Lightning Bolt and Abrupt Decay, but in order to dodge sorcery-speed removal, it can't block, and it dies to quite a lot of instant-speed removal (Path to Exile, Dismember, Go for the Throat).

    Heck, I'm not sure I'm seeing it in Legacy Nic Fit, which loves being in Junk colours and loves huge fatties. Sure, it can dodge Pernicious Deed for X = anything (when it's not Nic Fit's turn), but it still leaves negligible stuff behind when it gets removed.


    This is what I was about to post. Basically, Obzedat is just a bad Baneslayer Angel. There is very little sorcery speed removal in the format (Detention Sphere, Oblivion Ring, Damnation, and Supreme Verdict see very slight play), and Baneslayer wins tons more fights and races.
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  • #129
    Quote from Loganuc

    you are pretty much doing the something with an opposite opinion.

    Being able to judge a card is a very important aspect of the gam
    No. I'm not blindly hating neither hyping the card. I'm balancing both pros and cons, and stating my opinion. Not saying that it's the absolute truth.
    I know the possibility that it might not see paly. The card have a reasonable cost/effect rate. It have good sinergy whit already existing cards (and might have with the new ones). I just giving credit were it is due.

    His only argument is "a 5 CMC card can't see play in modern [inster a lot of hate here]", wich isn't even truth by itself. With the right build, it might see play, i'm not saying I WILL SEE PLAY. But i think that the possibility exist.

    There's a HUGE difference in saying: "I don't like it, this card might not see play" and "This card is bad and will never see play". Unless it is a total crap, the later shouldn't be used before the card is actually played and fails.

    Just look Lectrys post. He totallys disagree with me, but he is not assuming his opinion as fact, and is posting arguments (very valid by the way) to his point.
    Not just a "i hate standard, this card is junk bla bla bla".
    Last edited by Victor Sant: 1/1/2013 4:03:04 PM
  • #130
    How did anyone get us focused on modern? I guess because a few people were actually willing to argue with them?
    Does Sphinx's Revelation see play in modern? What about Thundermaw Hellkite? Falkenrath Aristocrat?

    People who are saying the cost is too restrictive to see play obviously haven't been playing the game very long.

    The first Ghost Council was the centerpiece of the best deck in standard for a while...

    This guy is easier to hit on turn 5 than that council was on turn 4.
  • #131
    This ghost dad is more of a beater, that looks like a more expensive version of 'Geralf's Messenger.
    He is not tremendous on his own due to his cost and abilities. He looks fun, but cards that do well in competitive play generally have splashablility.

    That means he needs a deck. He needs a card out there reasonably priced (maybe at a CC of 3) that does the following:

    Whenever a spell or ability would cause an opponent to lose life for the first time in a turn, that opponent loses twice that amount of life instead.

    If you see a creature/enchantment with this, then I think you have a deck, especially with extort around. In that case I would drop the new ghost dad as a 2 of in that deck.
    Last edited by Hellgrammite: 1/1/2013 4:30:06 PM
  • #132
    This is a strong card, but I like the original one better, not only the synergies was better (Haunt) and it was almost impossible to kill with creatures about (another strong point of W/B).
  • #133
    Quote from 1000milligrams
    How did anyone get us focused on modern? I guess because a few people were actually willing to argue with them?
    Does Sphinx's Revelation see play in modern? What about Thundermaw Hellkite? Falkenrath Aristocrat?


    I believe the Obzedat-in-Modern discussion started when Gavin Verhey, the writer of the article presenting the Obzedat, said that card could be playable in Modern Pod decks (likely as a 1-of). I'm starting to see convincing arguments that Baneslayer Angel hoses Modern RDW and presents Jund with conundrums (Jund is forced to keep removal for Pod's combo pieces, Pod has too many other creatures for Jund to force Pod to sacrifice BSA, Jund can't block BSA unless it has Lingering Souls out) so it's OK in Pod, but I'm not seeing the same arguments for the Obzedat.

    Surprisingly, Falkenrath Aristocrat is the only card of the three to basically not see Modern play right now. Spirit Jund (with Souls) took up so much of the meta that Thundermaw Hellkite started seeing play in Jund as a Souls-killing hasty finisher (dodges sorcery-speed removal for a turn, kills Souls/Vendilion Clique/Birds of Paradise/etc. even if it gets removed). Sphinx's Revelation sees fringe play in UW/x Control (UW Control, Teachings, UW Tron, etc.). I've found it's surprisingly good at getting out of burn range in Teachings, and I always draw at least 3 cards from it (I think the highest I've gotten is X = 8).
  • #134
    So maybe my examples were bad, they were just off the top of my head. Point being, this is obviously a standard card and that is the generally driver of spoiler discussion and prices of new cards. Most standard cards don't see the light of day in other formats.

    hellgrammite, that is an extremely specific thing to propose. Also, I don't think that card would make Obzedat any better, as now were talking about a combo that doesn't do any more than any other good card would do on its lonesome.
  • #135
    Anyone got any ideas about this being good enough in anything other than Standard?
  • #136
    Block constructed?
  • #137
    I was thinking this could be a finisher in both Standard and Modern in a Orzhov colored control deck. If your opponent is tapped out; there is literally nothing they can do. Splash blue in your deck for Esper, and you have counterspells to keep him alive on your turns. Cloudshift is actually really fun with this guy. Instant speed protection, and then the life gain/life loss effect on top of it.

    I know Modern is a hard format for new decks to take rise in, but I've won with some pretty fun and strong decks that you never even hear about in Modern.

    Another thing that immediately stands out to me is that he runs so well with Restoration Angel too!
    Last edited by Creedmoor: 1/1/2013 6:35:10 PM
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  • #138
    Quote from Victor Sant
    No. I'm not blindly hating neither hyping the card. I'm balancing both pros and cons, and stating my opinion. Not saying that it's the absolute truth.
    I know the possibility that it might not see paly. The card have a reasonable cost/effect rate. It have good sinergy whit already existing cards (and might have with the new ones). I just giving credit were it is due.

    His only argument is "a 5 CMC card can't see play in modern [inster a lot of hate here]", wich isn't even truth by itself. With the right build, it might see play, i'm not saying I WILL SEE PLAY. But i think that the possibility exist.

    There's a HUGE difference in saying: "I don't like it, this card might not see play" and "This card is bad and will never see play". Unless it is a total crap, the later shouldn't be used before the card is actually played and fails.

    Just look Lectrys post. He totallys disagree with me, but he is not assuming his opinion as fact, and is posting arguments (very valid by the way) to his point.
    Not just a "i hate standard, this card is junk bla bla bla".

    I didn't say they can't see play. I said they are far and few in between. In fact your pretty much completely misquoting me entirely. Saying it has likely no future in modern or legacy certainly doesn't mean it won't see play. Sealed, draft and Standard will see this guy plenty. Not to mention casual. You need to actually understand what I'm saying before you argue with what it actually is.
    Last edited by damagecase: 1/1/2013 6:51:15 PM
  • #139
    Alot of you are focusing on Modern and Standard play for Obzedat. Let's consider Commander cause this guy is fun for that format. As a commander; I need to seriously play test it, but as a 1 of, he is fun!
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  • #140
    Quote from Wraith223
    Alot of you are focusing on Modern and Standard play for Obzedat. Let's consider Commander cause this guy is fun for that format. As a commander; I need to seriously play test it, but as a 1 of, he is fun!


    much like the old one. i think it would be better in X edh if it was all opponents or something like that. at least for me most games i play are 3-4 people. idk . in 1 vs 1 he seems ok . i never really saw the appeal in the old ghost dad
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  • #141
    i'm going to say this card is absurd...but also, so is Geist of Saint Traft and he isnt played as widely as he should be. Amazing card none the less
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  • #142
    My favorite card spoiled so far......
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  • #143
    Quote from SiNcereX
    i'm going to say this card is absurd...but also, so is Geist of Saint Traft and he isnt played as widely as he should be. Amazing card none the less


    Geist sees quite alot of play. But even his cost can limit him in some decks. The cost of Obzedat is high WWBB is really hard to work with. He will be worth sub $40 a set in two months (going at +$60 currently).

    I like this card. I think it is a good card. But the hype is just that. I almost think some of the people on here are ebay sellers just trying to encourage speculation (a few do note they are sellers).

    Again I think this card will see some standard play, but he does not have a major impact on legacy, modern and minimal on standard. I think he will see slightly more play than Rakdos, Lord of riots though. Depends how many packs get cracked open to on market prices.
    Last edited by Hellgrammite: 1/1/2013 9:12:24 PM
  • #144
    Quote from SiNcereX
    i'm going to say this card is absurd...but also, so is Geist of Saint Traft and he isnt played as widely as he should be. Amazing card none the less


    Good point, however you need to hold GosT's hand if you want him to be effective. This card is a bit better by his lonesome.

    Quote from hellgrammite
    Again I think this card will see some standard play, but he does not have a major impact on legacy, modern and minimal on standard. I think he will see slightly more play than Rakdos, Lord of riots though.


    That's not that hard seeing as how Rakods sees zero competitive play. What kind of comparison is that anyway? This card is clearly much better with him having relevant abilities and all.
    Currently Playing ~ RWG Naya Control GWR


    Disclaimer: Unless I state otherwise, I'm referring to standard.
  • #145
    Quote from hellgrammite
    Geist sees quite alot of play. But even his cost can limit him in some decks. The cost of Obzedat is high WWBB is really hard to work with. He will be worth sub $40 a set in two months.

    I like this card. I think it is a good card. But the hype is just that. I almost think some of the people on here are ebay sellers just trying to encourage speculation (a few do note they are sellers).

    Again I think this card will see some standard play, but he does not have a major impact on legacy, modern and minimal on standard. I think he will see slightly more play than Rakdos, Lord of riots though.


    The bolded part is fact. OMG
  • #146
    GoST success is more based on the format he's used in than itself being a good card. Plus he's 3 cc. I honestly don't think GOST is that good so if this is comparable there is little wonder why I dislike the hype. I could be wrong on GoST too but I'm not forking out $100 a play set for something that gets completely owned by any red board sweeper in Modern. I'm sure he'll maintain the slots he's found but even at 3cc he's usually not a 4 of in a deck.
  • #147
    Quote from DTG99
    Good point, however you need to hold GosT's hand if you want him to be effective. This card is a bit better by his lonesome.


    i literally laughed out loud at that Grin

    delver held is hand pretty well. thank god that standard is over. looking forward to these beefy creatures for standard. more fun to play with and more flavor then titans too
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    Quote from AlMoStLeGeNdArY
    Lol @ that tier list.

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    Quote from ilovesaprolings
    first NPH: neil patrick harris/new phyrexia
    then from the vault legen... wait for it... dary
    then the vampire land of stinson and garruk suited up in innistrad
    and now challenge accepted!
    next one will be true story or haaaaaaaave you met ted?
  • #148
    GOST is playable in like Legacy. This card has a prohibitive casting cost, and gives you no value if it dies. If its playable in modern its because of alot of value somehow out of the entering/exiting the battlefield ability i think. Its just worse then batterskull at the same cost(plus harder to play) and wurmcoil for slightly more.
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  • #149
    Quote from DarkBrew
    GOST is playable in like Legacy. This card has a prohibitive casting cost, and gives you no value if it dies. If its playable in modern its because of alot of value somehow out of the entering/exiting the battlefield ability i think. Its just worse then batterskull at the same cost(plus harder to play) and wurmcoil for slightly more.

    Now, creatures don't must just have ETB triggers to be good, they must also have LTB triggers...

    Battler Skull? A simple Ancient Grudge and it's gone. And if your Wurmcoil geth pathed, you also get 0 value from it.
    From the ones you mentioned, none actually have imediate impact, and can be easly be responded to before having any effect.
  • #150
    Quote from DemonSlayer
    My favorite card spoiled so far......


    Preach!

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  • #151
    still my favorite card spoiled lol
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    Quote from AlMoStLeGeNdArY
    Lol @ that tier list.

    LOL @ that spam.



    Quote from ilovesaprolings
    first NPH: neil patrick harris/new phyrexia
    then from the vault legen... wait for it... dary
    then the vampire land of stinson and garruk suited up in innistrad
    and now challenge accepted!
    next one will be true story or haaaaaaaave you met ted?
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